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Nowadays, using the lower 2008 EPA ratings, the Durango 4.7 is rated at 13/17 and the 5.7 Hemi is rated at 13/18. I think the Hemi has cylinder deactivation, which cuts it down to 4 cylinders under light load, while the 4.7 does not. Both of them have a 5-speed automatic. I wonder if the Hemi might also have a taller axle ratio.
Now a few years back, the Hemi used to get better economy, I think, because it came with a 5-speed and the 4.7 only had a 4-speed, but today I think it's because of the cylinder deactivation.
I figure as long as the car doesn't start leaving me stranded on a regular basis, and as long as I still trust it for longer trips, I'll hold onto it. Sometimes I do get tempted to move on to something else, but not having a car payment is nice. Plus, there's really only one new car out there that really interests me right now...the Pontiac G8. And I'm just not ready to blow $30K on a car! I'd probably be more likely to get something like a 4-cyl Altima or maybe a Malibu or Aura next time around. Likeable cars, but nothing that I'm really excited to get back into a car payment for.
The car was running fine and he told me not to bother, but now I'm getting random stall-outs. I guess it's time to get it looked at.
Yes, definitely get it checked out, especially considering how much you drive that car. At first my Intrepid only did it once in a great while, but then it started happening more often. Initially, it seemed to only happen in situations where I was just coasting along at 35-45 mph, under light load conditions. Sometimes I wouldn't even notice it if I had the radio cranked up...until I saw the oil pressure light come on. Then, it did it at a stop sign. Sometimes it would do it out on the highway, under a heavier throttle load, and I could feel it coming on. Sometimes pumping the gas pedal would revive it.
Eventually, it ended up dying about 2 miles from home, back in April when I was coming up for the Spring Carlisle show. It was a real pain to get started, but finally did, so I just took it back home and grabbed another car.
It just kept getting worse with time, and I think eventually, the car would have simply refused to start. So yeah, get that sucker checked out before it leaves you stranded somewhere! Or cuts out on you when you really need it, such as passing another car or merging onto a highway.
I thought crankshaft position sensors didn't set the CEL and that's what makes them hard to diagnose. Does it restart immediately? CPS often won't start till it cools after a few minutes; throw a cup of water on it often cools it.Could it be the camshaft sensor?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Now that you mention it, when my Intrepid would stall out, it would not trigger the CEL. The only light that would come on is the oil pressure. The CEL did come on back in October 2007, but the car seemed like it was running fine and then the light went away after about a month.
One thing that's kind of amusing though (although it wasn't at the time!) was when my Trep refused to start after work one day. That was a new one. It would usually start fine, but then start stalling at random, but would usually start back up. The next day, it refused to start again. I turned the key off and on a few times, and suddenly the odometer went blank, replaced by dashes. Then it spelled out "DOnE", which I thought was a bit sarcastic...okay, does this mean the car's done for?! I never knew the odometer was even capable of displaying letters! Well, after that, for some reason, the car fired right up and I took it straight to the mechanic.
I'm guessing I turned the ignition off and on in some kind of sequence that made it cycle through error codes, and it's just programmed to register "Done" when it's finished. I had an '88 LeBaron that would so something similar, but more rudimentary. If you turned the ignition on-off-on-off-on, the CEL would start flashing, and the number would correspond to an engine code. "5 5" meant "end of codes", and if that's all that flashed, there was nothing stored.
I vaguely remember with my '86 Monte Carlo, you could do a similar thing by taking a paper clip, unbending it, and sticking the ends in a certain slot in an interface thing under the dash.
Oh, and with my Intrepid, the mechanic ended up replacing both sensors...camshaft and crankshaft. Now that I think about it, on a DOHC V-block engine, would one camshaft sensor monitor everything? Or would there be one per camshaft (4 in my case?)
As odd as it may sound, what you've described is VERY American. Most Americans will say that the free market and capitalism is one of the key strengths of the United States. In order to have the free market, companies must be able to find the most competitive way to make and sell their products. If that means finding a third-world country to build it...so be it. That's just the way that capitalism works.
I'm not defending it, I'm just calling it the way I see it.
I've owned cars from the US, Japan, Germany, and England as daily drivers (I'm working my way around the world through my cars). Three of them had American parent companies and the fourth had an American associate. Somehow, a piece of each of my cars paid an American executives salary.
Those jobs spawn other jobs.
Needing one new part in 7 years of American truck ownership.
How could it be a good thing that Honda gets a tax abatement of over 100 million dollars to let Americans do starter jobs, while after paying their white collar workforce back home in Japan very nicely to create all the things they sell us, they still have 1.7 billion in after tax profits in just the second quarter?
We obviously don't want a future here for our children other than as assemblers for Honda, based on their rate of sales increases and our big 3's losses.
I don't care how impressive the Honda is, It is not the answer to our countries problems. An individual? Only if they don't want to contribute to the country as a whole.
We do get 19.5 on the highway...and, considering that my Crown Vic only gets 20 highway mpg, that's OK for the Hemi...
Just put Goodyear Fortera tires on the truck at 41K, rides nice and smooth...the OEM Michelins did last 41K...
Our oil money goes to the Arabs.
Your TOY,HONDA & KIA, HYUNDAI purchase---money goes to Japan and South Korea.
Money spent at the BIG BOX stores goes to CHINA and surrounding sweat shops. Wal-mart, Sam's Club, Costcos, Target, and other discount chains are their outlets.
Maybe we should start making something that says"Made in USA"..
I realize that Detroit's products are not high on anyones shopping list, due to a long list of dislikes and past bad experiences..
[non-permissible content removed] car sales are booming----however our economy is in the dumps--why???
Japan's economy is booming--thanks to your drolling over their tin cans..
My Bullitt hunt is closing down..No deals on the 08s as yet...If one has to pay the long dollar on an 08, paying the big buck on 09 is acceptable..At least it will be the current model year..I have found an 09 at a Detroit Ford dealer who is in my old neighbor area..Have to make the Detroit trip on business next month to see what the real estate looks like that I got back in the sheriff's sale six months ago..Redemption peroid is over today..Michigan is in bad shape...Guess what party governs????
Has anyone figured what BHO means by"green jobs". This occupation was hailed as the future of the Motor City by BHO on his last Detroit outing..The city of Detroit has an unemployment rate of 30% min..maybe Japan will step in and save the day.
You Think????
No matter who you choose, you lose.
Simply buy a used car, then you don't have to worry about illogical guilt about who your purchase supports :P
I just saw a loaded 08 V8 Lucerne with 7K miles on it offered for 23K from a local dealer...has to be a nicer ride than a bland Camry.
I won't buy new cars with more than say 15 miles on them. Got a Stealth new which had been test driven and transmission ruined in the process, no doubt. No more new cars which have been played with.
Making a rule based on the reliability of Dodge Transmissions is a bad idea. There are many car manufacturers from Japan and Germany that make much better longer lasting transmissions than anything Dodge has ever come up with.
I sold my Honda not because I was afraid it would die or be costly to maintain, but because I could sell it for 53% of its out the door cost 50 months and 65,000 miles later.
The resale value triggerred my instinct to want something different and/or better and it overpowered my instinct to be frugal with money (in part because of the excellent resale value).
This means high resale value equals freedom to make decisions and choices later on, whereas a bad resale value may force you into not having any choice but to put up with junk.
As proof I believed in the car, I offered to sell it to family (brother in-law, friends, relatives), and i offered a full 1 year 15K warranty bumper to bumper for no additional charge to family and relatives for the same price I could get on the open market (that was the friendly price). Since when is a private sale having a full 1 year warranty been heard of?
I admit I was taking a small chance and betting that reliability was on an upswing at Audi, (and I've since been proven right), and also on more questionable resale than as compared to a Toyota/Honda machine. However, for $30K out the door, I got a helluva fun car to drive that's been almost perfect reliability wise. Best car I've owned to date, and I have 42K miles!
Other cars in the 30K range out the door just didn't have the same interior luxury, sporty handling, powerful motor, 30 MPG HWY efficiency all in one package. And with the rear seats down I can fit a 40" x 20" x 55" long box, easily.
Maybe GM could make a better tasting, healthier, and less costly burger than McDonalds!
Maybe Ford could top GM's efforts in the flipping burgers arena.
Chrysler might make a better taco than Taco Bell for the same price.
However, competing with Toyota, Honda, Audi, BMW ain't it!
It's time to surrender and lay down the white flag and try making better sushi than the Japanese, or improving our beers over the Germans.
EVER is a long time. I remember the Dodge 318 and torqueflite transmission from the 1950s to the 90s that was the best transmission built. My 1974 Dodge van had 107k miles when the engine died. It was 1985 and I had both engine and trans rebuilt at the same time just for good measure. That was a lot of miles on a vehicle back then. My 1978 Accord engine blew up at 65k miles. Now that was a POC car.
Made in America is not all bad:
The TorqueFlite transmission was Chrysler's mainstay from its introduction in 1956 through the early 1990s, remaining in duty in modified form (for front wheel drive) through 2001 in the Neon, and continuing even today with electronic controls for trucks.
Though the first TorqueFlite was the revolutionary A-488, called the best automatic transmission in the world, the most legendary Torqueflite model is the A-727, which replaced it in 1962. Assigned to the most muscular engines, heavy duty applications, and trucks
I think the A3 is one of the best looking cars on the road. I like wagons if I have to have a car. If Audi would bring their fine line of diesel engines to the USA they would be on my list. Especially the Q7 with diesel would be great. Does Audi have any factories in the USA?
While your logic is impeccable as usual, I would point out that the drivetrain of the Dodge Stealth is shared with its Mitsubishi counterpart, the 3000 GT. It IS a Japanese transmission and engine.
Yeah, I just can't bring myself to gamble like that. For all the issues they have had with the 1.8t engine, all the extra maintenance requirements, and the fiasco of a front suspension on the 1996-2001 A4s and Passats, That coupled with the European treasures of power window failures and power lock failures, ignition pack issues, and mid-year part changes, I decided I would pass.
Never had experiences as bad as you have with ANY of my GM cars
There are plenty of Chrysler Corp cars out there (I wouldn't give you a dime for any of them, just opinion though) commanding well over 6 figures, and most of them have the 727 Tourqueflight in them
Americans already do beer better than the Germans......Ever heard of Sam Adams???
BTW, rooting for an American company to go bankrupt isn't just wrong, it's UNPATRIOTIC at best, TREASONIST at worst. I DESPISE WAL-MART, yet I don't want them bankrupt, just to smarten up. SHAME ON YOU!!!!
And to tell someone they SHOULD buy the product, solely to keep the company in business, is not treasonous or unpatriotic, but is absolutely wrong...the companies do not exist by divine right, they exist by selling something somebody wants to buy...if there aren't enough "somebodys" to make a profit, what is the only alternative???
Please remember...the Big 3 brought everything on themselves, we did nothing to them except refuse to buy what the buyers believed was junk...would you buy a lemon just to keep them in business???
"It's time to surrender and lay down the white flag and try making better sushi than the Japanese, or improving our beers over the Germans."
He WANTS them to quit, not do better.
You ask: " ...would you buy a lemon just to keep them in business???"
No, I wouldn't. I would wait for a pineapple(insert nirvana fruit of your choice :shades: ), or go buy my pineapple elsewhere, not go rah rah ABC fruit is out of business.
Remember, Lee Iacocca was an icon in the '80's for resurrecting Chrysler. Had he sold off Chrysler in bits and pieces, yet "did right by the shareholders", nobody would remember him past being the father of the Mustang. I highly doubt Rick Wagoner would be an American icon for turning GM into General Sushi,no matter how good the sushi is.
Blaming the victim is never a good strategy and that's what happens here all the time. I didn't fail GM or Ford - they failed me. Like everyone else I found what I liked and felt I could rely on.
Meanwhile, while this doesn't break any new ground, Automakers Race Time as Their Cash Runs Low
I don't want them to go bankrupt but I understand how close that possibility is. I applaud For for committing to the European models and building them here. I have wanted that for three decades.
I think Ford and GM have all the right parts to make a big comeback. The question is if they have the time.
My question is what do you have your fingers crossed for?? Mine are crossed for the time. Based on his comments, I think Andres' are crossed that they run out of cash.
Both are certainly equally important. I would think that if it becomes evident that they've turned the corner that two things will happen before the profitability kicks in that will help in the money department. First is that banks would be more likely to lend more money if they can see where the payback is going to come from. The other is that people would be buying the stock again. I think that as more attractive offerings will give people reason to believe in the stock and a year from now these could be good stocks to pick up.
This is as difficult time as either maker has seen. You have the erosion of market share that has been going on for decades and now you tack on to it the complete change in what type of vehicles people want. It's downright miraculous that they can turn around a complete product line in a year or two but they seem to be pushing to do exactly that.
I've left out Chrysler because I think they are toast. I'd love for them to prove me wrong.
Even though I wouldn't buy one, I concur. BUT, I think it's a crying shame. Much in the way that the [non-permissible content removed] Big 3 reached up to the likes of MB & BMW with their luxury marques, in the purchase of Chrysler MB had the opportunity to reach down to a price class that MB was never in. MB summarily punted that away. For example, if Toyota can make the IS on the same platform as the Corolla, then why couldn't the Neon be made on a C class platform??
Unfortunately, I believe Cerebus' plan is to try to stabilize Chrysler, and then sell off whatever is marketable. What a shame.
What Daimler did to Chrysler was criminal. Milked them for all the cash that was in there and let it die. When they came in Chrysler was running a profit and had attractive vehicles. Even if you were nervous about reliability you might take a chance because they were appealing. By the time they pulled the plug the design people were gone as were most of the nice products.
The place where Cerberus could take a bath is this flip in the market. They don't have the resources that Ford and GM do unless they start pouring in money from other holdings which certainly is not what I'd do in their shoes.
They are likely best off eventually selling names (especially Jeep) and whatever assets are there and cutting their losses.
I truly think it's a cryin' shame!
Regards,
OW
What it should be...making the best products. Period, the end.
It's not that now. Can it ever be again?
Regards,
OW
For all of my criticisms of Big 3 and unions, and there are many, spanning 25-30 years of product, I never WANTED them to go under, it just seems like they were the arrogant ones simply asking for it...
Years ago, I think a Forbes auto columnist, Maryann Keller, wrote a book "On a Clear day you could see General Motors"...I believe back then she wrote about the arrogance of GM, stating that their marketing was basically to cram down our throats what they wanted us to buy, rather than what we wanted to buy...when they were the only game in town, this worked...until the japanese became a force to be reckoned with...the buying public saw this quickly...the carmakers, IMO have just realized this in the last year or two...talk about blinders...talk about arrogance...
One other thing to keep in mind as the possibly of bankruptcy looms...it would probably NOT be Chapter 7, liquidation and death...it would probably be Chapter 11, restructuring, which is a fancy way to shed some debt, void the union contract, eliminate retiree health insurance and terminate pension payouts...shedding all that might bring them to profitability in about, oh, an hour or two?????
Well, I do hate Lee Iacocca, the Chrysler shareholders, and the US Gov't for saving Chrysler in the 80's, because if that hadn't been done, I would have never had to experience the filth and fiasco that was the Dodge Neon. I'd be thousands and thousands of dollars richer, a bit happier for sure, and my money would have been spent more productively on quality products from quality companies rather than being wasted on a :lemon: from a boneheaded poor quality and effort company.
So from my perspective, part of good ol' American patriotism is believing in capitalism, and part of capitalism is that some companies will fail, and some will prosper. For some reason, Republicans and Democrats (I hate to admit) alike, feel that the worst companies, performances, and efforts should be rewarded with tax payer bailouts.
This belief that no US company should fail is a bad idea and is why we are in the situation we are in now. It sort of goes back to the law of diminishing returns, as we have to spend twice as much through Big 3/GM (bailouts, subsidies) to make a car as good as a Toyota (for example), and we could be spending that hard earned money making something else cheaper than everyone else, and selling/exporting it out of our country to help make us rich.
Although I am not rooting for US companies to fail, I'd love to see them improved as improving would make them more profitable. However, when these companies are spending billions and billions of dollars and producing nothing but billions in losses rather than profits, someone intelligent and with some balls might need to say "PULL THE PLUG!"
And as for MB being to blame for Chrysler's demise, garbage I say! It doesn't matter how pretty your designs are, once you've had a lemon most people (like myself) won't go back. The only customers Chrysler could get after the 90's were NEW younger customers that hadn't been burned yet. Thats a small part of the market.
" Americans already do beer better than the Germans......Ever heard of Sam Adams???
" I have no problem with the other parts of your message but now you're just talking silly. And if you're going to be silly you might throw in the Dutch and Belgian as well.
" Well, I do hate Lee Iacocca, the Chrysler shareholders, and the US Gov't for saving Chrysler in the 80's, because if that hadn't been done, I would have never had to experience the filth and fiasco that was the Dodge Neon. I'd be thousands and thousands of dollars richer, a bit happier for sure, and my money would have been spent more productively on quality products from quality companies rather than being wasted on a from a boneheaded poor quality and effort company "
I agree with your comments. Iacocca = I am chairman of Chryler corporation of America. The US didn't save Chrysler because they were third of the big 3 now intermediate 3 . At the time, Chyrsler had a division that made tank parts so Congress was able to push through loan guarantee's under the guise of national security. That division has long since been sold off so Chrysler has no protection. Daimler (mb) is proving to be rather wise and private equity Cerebus to be not so wise. The problems of the intermediate 3 are of their own construction . As to Cerebus's purchase and problems regarding Chrysler I find only one quote apropos.
Mr. T " I pity the fool. "
If Cerberus sells the holdings separately will it equal the price they paid? I would imagine Chrysler has a lot of valuable properties. Was the sale of the Chrysler building in NYC part of those holdings? Chrysler is a small part of the Cerberus portfolio.
I am only somewhat familiar with Chapter 11, but I don't think their money making operations overseas changes anything...if they have too much debt that cannot be serviced with income, I believe they can file Ch 11 and keep anything they want and jettison ALMOST anything they want...they can surrender some plants back to their lenders (assuming they owe any money on it), they can decide which creditors to pay, etc....when Delta went Ch 11, they used it to give back some jets but not all jets...hence, why it is called reorganization...
I believe the first 2 things would be to void any union contracts and dump retiree pensions and retiree health care costs...these cost them a bundle that may not be affordable any more with current sales and profits...
You can argue their "obligations" all you want...when the $$$ ain't there, it ain't there...it is no different when my client files Chapter 7...when they signed those Visa/Amex and Mastercard agreements, they had the income coming in to pay bills...when they lost their overtime, they lost the extra $300-500 monthly that went to pay those bills...scream all you want, they can no longer pay those bills...bankruptcy permits them to basically void that signed contract and discharge an unpayable debt...I believe that Ch 11 will allow GM/Ford to do the same thing, altho I realize there are some differences between Ch 11 for business and Ch 7 for people...
Are credit cards able to be discharged by bankruptcy? I thought they still stood after the change in legislation they got a couple years back. This isn't relevant to GM, I know, but I just wondered.
> first 2 things would be to void any union contracts and dump retiree pensions and retiree health care costs...
This would put them on a playing field closer to the foreign makers who have plants currently building in the US. Would they be able to dump old plant facilities that may have pollution problems without carrying that cleanup responsibility.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I don't think the NLRB will let them get away with that. They may be able to renegotiate the UAW contracts for all the locations. GM may just have to sell all their assets to pay the bills that exist. When you file bankruptcy for reorganization you allow the Feds to come in and run the show from what I know about it. Of course that is not very much. If the Feds run it you know it will be a real mess in short order. I'm just glad we sold our GM stock when it was doing well.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Alt. A Mortgage Defaults
Regards,
OW
Those jobs spawn other jobs.
...How could it be a good thing that Honda gets a tax abatement of over 100 million dollars to let Americans do starter jobs, while after paying their white collar workforce back home in Japan very nicely to create all the things they sell us, they still have 1.7 billion in after tax profits in just the second quarter?
You answered your own question. The tax incentives get the assembly plants in and the plants "spawn other jobs." When Honda opens a plant, within a few years the cars and trucks they're building are using 65-80% North American-sourced parts. Parts built by other Americans and assembled into American-built Hondas by Americans.
And don't think that Honda is alone. Sure, Toyota and Hyundai have received some of these incentives but so have Ford, Chrysler, and GM. The incentives go to get new plants opened to reduce the unemployment in an area. And that's just what they do.
They do, but they always have the right parts. And they always seem to squander it.
Why is it that we have to hope, every 10-20 years, that Ford and GM (and Chrysler) can "make a big comeback?" Why can't they get competitive and STAY competitive? Why can each generation of Accord and Camry and Corolla and Civic get better and the mediocre Escort gets replaced by a Focus that is plagued with recalls for two years? Same with the GM W-bodies replacing the A-bodies?
Can't we get some car people running these companies who also know how to count beans? Make an excellent car that people would want to buy at a good price AND make a profit doing it? If Honda and Toyota can, why can't Ford and GM?
As much as I'd like to blame the UAW or the government or Satan or someone else, the Big3 have to take some of the blame themselves.
BHO is in Michigan today--demonizing oil--preaching to end "the age of oil"..otherwise delegating the USA to second-rate status, headed for a third world country status..
The demise of the BIG3 is totally political..
Bullitt update, my interest is fading, $21,100 cash plus the 06 GPGT is not too swift..My counter and final would be $19,000+my car..The Bullitt is not worth that kind of money..So I am letting the affair fade..Chasing a 07 GT w/California pkg, 3k miles..Lexus dealer owned..Will spend the 19k and keep the GPGT..Just gave myself a raise..I realize the 07 is missing a few of the Bullitt goodies, but I can add the "front strut bar" and a K&N filter..and suffer with the lesser gear box and suspension tweeks..
I have enjoyed reading about the restructing of the BIG3 as presented by our foreign car advocates on this thread..even down to soil replacement..
I now have a Michigan home again with a 60 acre lawn..Maybe I should buy a Prius for my commute from Fla.---I bet I could save $111.00 on gas, You think the [non-permissible content removed] had long trips in mind when they developed the Prius for travel in their country..Their lifestyle is not based on our traditions, so go ahead and buy these battery powered tin cans and feel good about improving the Japanese economy..
Do you think Japanese cars are treated differently on recall issues versus the Big3..I have found the press loves to diss our cars..Maybe I am wrong..Dive in..
And those cars were built 35-40 years ago...? I'm sure that everyone who was involved in their design and production is either retired or six feet under.
A 1969 Hemi Dodge Coronet R/T is worth a lot of money and a great car for its intended purpose, but it has nothing in common with a 2008 Dodge Avenger except the nameplate, and most buyers know this.
If you are trying to imply that the main reason that many people or even the posters on this board don't buy Detroit cars is because they can't afford them, you'd be wrong...buyers of imported nameplates are wealthier and better educated than those who buy domestic nameplates. People who buy a Honda or Toyota could afford the comparable Chevy product; they just don't want it.
The practice of giving financing to "anyone with a pulse" by the domestics has worsened this trend...someone I know who handles bankruptcies wondered why all of his clients drive domestic cars. It's because, in desperation, GM, Ford and Chrysler have been moving the metal by financing purchases for people who would be better off with a used car (or taking the bus).
He blew through a pretty decent inheritance, declared bankruptcy and got the house foreclosed on (I believe in that order) and Ford is STILL leasing him an F-150.
And as you drive your overpriced US mfg. car from the show room, you loose 15% depreciation in that first mile....in 6 years it's one step up from junk-status.
A 6 year old 2003 Honda Civic is worth within $1,000 of a 2003 Caddy CTS, on average and equal to a 2003 Buick Park Avenue!!
I don't make the rules, here. Reality BITES.
Regards,
OW