This E90 330xi is holding up very well for me. Once in the shop for a warranty repair for 1 week (330i loaner) and free RFT's at 12K miles (528i loaner).
As one of the pioneers of the MV, Chrysler got that one right, IMO. I also know people that had great service with their Intrepids and 300M.
FWIW, my 2000 Intrepid was a pretty reliable car until just last year. I think I had to sink about $2,000 into it in 2007, although that also included a lot of maintenance items that the mechanic said the car really didn't need, but I didn't want to take any chances. For instance, I wanted the coolant and hoses changed. He said they were fine, but that coolant was about 3 1/2 years old and the hoses were the original ones! The transmission lines were leaking, very slightly, not enough to really worry about but enough to make a mess. Over the year I also needed new front tires, new front bearing hubs, some other suspension work, new front brakes (OEM parts, so they were a bit pricey, but should last longer...hopefully), an a/c recharge, and probably some other things I'm forgetting now.
The car also started 2007 with about 126,000 miles on it, so it wasn't exactly a spring chicken anymore. And now it's at the mechanic, with about 140,000 miles on it, because of stalling issues. The final straw was when it left me stranded at work, although it did start up, reluctantly, the next day.
I would consider another Chrysler product...IF they built something today that really caught my eye. I do like the Charger, although I don't care for the interior. Only problem is, there are simply other cars out there that I like better. A 4-cyl Altima would probably deliver about the same performance as the Charger 3.5, with better fuel economy. And if I wanted to go all-out and get a loaded-up V-8, I think the Pontiac G8 is just a better package.
The Intrepid is the only car I ever bought new. Everything else has been used...sometimes VERY used. So if it ended up being a piece of junk, often old age or neglect/abuse by the previous owners was more to blame than anything Detroit did to it on the assembly line. So I guess I can't really say that I've ever felt burned by a particular brand.
I do remember a 1982 Malibu wagon that my grandparents bought new, that they hated. It fried its ECU twice, and they just weren't used to a car that small, with that little power. My other grandparents, on my Dad's side, had a 1975 Dart Swinger that would stall out without provocation (just like my Intrepid!), and the dealer couldn't fix it, so they ditched it for a '77 Granada that promptly ate its transmission. And my Mom's '75 LeMans needed a new distributor when it was only about a year or two old. And after 1977, it never ran right, but that seemed to coincide with Dad wrecking it, and after it was fixed it just never ran right again.
what really gets you excited about Big 3 (past tense) products?
I like minivans. Chrysler is the only domestic maker of them at the moment, but I follow the rollout of the new flavors pretty closely. Stuff like power sliding doors and Stow-n-Go seats excite me.
I'm curious to see the VW version of the Chrysler minivan.
Ford and GM vans didn't interest me as much although the old Windstar interiors were fine.
Now Ford has my interest with the Edge (I like boxy cars - ergo my short fling with those 70's Volvos).
If I was going to a sedan, I'd test drive the Malibu for sure.
And I really like the way the Sky design turned out.
There are some others, (oh, please update the Ford Ranger), but I'm still on my first cups of coffee this morning.
some of them just switched from, say, Ford to GM, but a LARGE portion switched from Big 3 to Hon/Toy because they were treated better at the dealer, or were impressed with the quality of the car...many of those will NEVER come back, because they still believe, 20-30 years later, that Big 3 cars are junk, or, if not junk, are now up to the level of quality of the Japanese in the 90s, but the Japanese have been improving their cars daily..
I think there is some truth to this. The trends of switching, in my observation are generally as follows:
Chrysler people who get disaffected, often switched to GM, rarely to Ford. GM disaffectees often switched to Ford - then to Japanese, rarely to Chrysler. Ford disaffectees usually switched straight to imports.
Why, I can't tell ya, but I've seen it happen time after time.
Oddly - when there is the occasional Japanese car disaffectee, and it does happen, though not often, switch to GM! They're about the only ones who do. What our Big 3 never got was that once they burned a customer, they were gone for good. The cost of that is incalculable, but they didn't care, thinking there was a new crop of suckers born every day. All they tried to do was piss the public off LESS than the competition....... Made it easy for the Japanese to pick us off, even with tinny little crap boxes at first, because they RAN and RAN. Now, they make really nice cars - we have no chance to get their customers back, IMO. Best we can do is slow the bleeding.
And then there's the coolness factor. No current teenager thinks an American car is cool. Trucks maybe, but not cars.
And then there's the coolness factor. No current teenager thinks an American car is cool. Trucks maybe, but not cars.
I don't buy this (and your buyer crossover analysis lacks something as well, but I'm not going there now). Ask a teenager what they think of the Chrysler 300 or Dodge Charger or Dodge Challenger or Ford Mustang or Chevrolet Camaro. I'll even lump in the Pontiac G8, Pontiac Solstice, Saturn Sky, and of course the high performance vehicles like the Cadillac CTS-V, Chevrolet Corvette, Dodge Viper, Chevrolet Cobalt SS. You'll find that the "coolness" rating of these vehicles ranks up there with any other vehicle under $100k. Even the Ford Fusion and new Malibu have some sort of "coolness" factor (as much as mid-sized mainstream sedans can).
No teenager thinks that a Ford Taurus or Chevrolet Impala (with the possible exception of the SS) is cool...but they also don't think that the Camry or Accord are cool.
The Fusion does seem to be one of the good ones, but Toyota has been making Camries for 25 years while Ford has been making Fusions for, what, 3? If Ford can keep the Fusion a good car, it should be able to build a good reputation for the name and not have to labor under the shadow of Tauruses, Tempos, and the rest of the alphabet soup of past midsize Fords.
Minority? Geeze, there are still PLENTY of Buicks of my Park Avenue's vintage still around. I can't go two blocks without seeing another late '80s Park Avenue or LeSabre and I live in a pretty nice neighborhood.
As I was born in 1965, I don't know if that makes me the last of the boomers or a proto-Gen-X'er. I would've never considered a car like a Neon or a Civic in the first place regardless of who made it or where it was made. Same thing about any minivan or SUV - completely off my radar.
My first two cars were Buicks and they were excellent!!! My first new car was a 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic - another excellent vehicle from which I traded-up to a new 1989 Cadillac Brougham. I've also had many used domestic vehicles which have served me well. I must be the luckiest guy in the world! :P
Sell it, trade it or get a better job and then buy something out of the tin-can class..
I didn't care for the 1998 Intrigue starting @ 3k miles with brake and steering issues, so it went back to it's maker around 26k miles with a check in my paws for $24,475.62, cost me 874.20 to own..Gave the dealer the check and left the dealership with a new 1999 Intrigue GLS w/3.5 alum blocked V-6, DOHC., fun car had a SLP catback exhaust installed by the Olds dealer..75k mi it was gone and a 2002 Intrigue appeared and was broomed @119.5k..Next is the 06GPGT the bargain set of wheels..fun drive and rewards me with the 20.mpgs..
Having an internet pricing game with a local Ford dealer on an 08 Mustang GT Deluxe w/5sp manual--a plain entry level fun car. When cash pricing gets down to 22k I will introduce them to my tradein..the Pontiac..
At my elevated age of 74, a sloppy fit & finish, low-tech, loud, and rattling Mustang should make my day..Much better than a buzzy 4-cylinder Asian creation
Someone on this thread was extolling the virtues of Hyundai autos and I just read an article about the it's CEO, 70yrs young was sentenced to 3 yrs in prison for embezzling $100 million..Who says the old guys can't run a car company and make a little extra on the side..Also the ex-chairman of Samsung was found to have $4.5 billion in hidden assets..Korea seems to be hotbed for crooks..
Maybe it was just a fundraiser for the Democratic Party..Forgot, the party has the honorable George Soros doing it's bidding by shorting the US$$$ raising the price of oil and then endowing the profits to Donkey coffers..
Off to the beach folks, enjoy the day...If you don't like our car, truck or SUV, get rid of it..If your second choice sucks, then use Public Transportation, provided at taxpayers expense for disgruntled car owners..If it's an old diesel bus, complain and maybe the govt will buy a $400,000 hybrid bus to appease the working class and the non-working professional enviromental protestors..
The Civic would have paid for itself over a few years of better gas mileage. The Civic would not have cost thousands and thousands of dollars from contant repairs and tow truck fees. The Civic would have been worth a substantial amount at 65,000 miles, while the Dodge was worthless to all but the foolish.
Sometimes you never know, though. I have some friends who bought a '94 Civic EX, brand-new, and it was one of the worst cars they ever owned. By the time it got to 80-90K miles, it had blown its second head gasket, and I know it had a/c problems along the line, as well. They ended up ditching it for a Saturn S-series.
I know that's not typical of a Honda, but still, it shows that any brand can have issues. Actually, I think the main reason that Civic acted up on them so badly is because I was the one that recommended it to them!
Sell it, trade it or get a better job and then buy something out of the tin-can class.
My priorities are, well, different, than yours. It's certainly not a money issue. I could swing the lease on a new CTS if I really wanted to, and I could also stop by the local Chevy dealer tomorrow and write a check for the off-lease CTS sitting in front of the building. Instead, I'll be heading past the Chevy dealer to look at and most likely write a slightly smaller check for the smart fortwo I got a call on today.
If you like, you can call dibs on my buzzy 4-cylinder Asian creation if you think your wallet might not win a tug-of-war between the Mustang and the gas pump. :P
Ford has been making Fusions for, what, 3? If Ford can keep the Fusion a good car, it should be able to build a good reputation for the name and not have to labor under the shadow of Tauruses, Tempos, and the rest of the alphabet soup of past midsize Fords.
Herein lies my biggest beef with the Little 3: Changing names before they are capable of developing the model to be a brand.
IMO, that Fusion should have been named for the car it was replacing, the Taurus and reinvented. The Taurus brand, though severely tainted through felony neglect the past 5 years or so, still has some equity in it, and a "all new Taurus" as good as the Fusion is would have sold at least as well. But Ford likes to re-name often, and then start thrifting the car. But that was BM (before mulally) and hopefully, management is not that inconsistent around there anymore.
Lem, my point EXACTLY. Like I said, everybody talks about how well their 20 yr old Camry RAN, and we talk about how well our 20 yr old Buicks RUN. BIG difference.
I think really just the Cadillac CTS. Nothing else particularly interests me because I'm not a sports/motor car type. The CTS is a nice combination of refinement and power and hell it's won a ton of awards. Of course it's also about 10-15k above the price range I'd buy, so I'm not touching it
The problem for me on American cars is that their small car lineups have been really lacking and yet are priced very similarly. Chrysler has nothing small and good. Ford's best car is actually a Mazda, so that doesn't count. GM's gotten better, but still isn't fully competitive with Civics/Corolla's/etc. I want my excitement in the world of small, and the big 3 need to make that happen ASAP.
"Under pressure to make its trucks more fuel efficient, Ford is planning to build a smaller pickup on a modified version of the F-150 platform, according to two people who have been briefed on the company's plans. The people asked not to be named because the plans aren't yet public.
The truck would use lighter-weight materials such as aluminum and thinner, high-strength steel and would be about the size of the Ford Ranger compact pickup. Instead of a V-8, the truck would likely have a 6-cylinder engine with some extra kick from Ford's EcoBoost technology, which uses turbocharging and direct-injection to improve performance and fuel economy."
Someone has a Vibe. I know that Nummi plant, someone I talk to used to intern there. It's amusing how they make Toyotas and Pontiacs in the same place with basically almost the same car. Anyone buying a Matrix should really look at the Vibe since they're almost the same thing.
They're just as pricey as Toyota or Honda though...
Is that a bad thing though?? I mean, if you're in the market for one, it has been used extensively in Europe, so it does have a track record that can be looked at.
"Lem, my point EXACTLY. Like I said, everybody talks about how well their 20 yr old Camry RAN, and we talk about how well our 20 yr old Buicks RUN. BIG difference"...
I appreciate what you say, but, in the big scheme of things, there just ain't enough of you folks to matter...a couple of neighborhoods do not a trend make...
And, if there really WERE enough of you to matter, then imports would not have 50% of the market, plain and simple...
You guys are simply part of a club, probably a sub-branch of those who have replica orange cars of the Dukes of Hazzard... :P
Yes this is true your not going to get a kid to buy a Camry or Accord. I'm 26 and would buy a Lacrosse or a Azera but most people my age wouldn't. I like the Azera and Lacrosse cause they look upscale not so bland like a Toyota Camry. If they did buy a car They would buy something smaller like a Mazda 3, Mini Cooper maybe, Ford Focus, etc. Otherwise they would buy something Like Chrysler 300, Dodge Avenger etc. but they are large cars.
They weight at least 36-3700 pounds and are gas guzzlers. The 420HP performance versions get 13/19 which would be within the fuel economy range of a Ford Explorer or other midsize SUV. If you had only about $20,000 to spend you could get including discounts and tax a 300C or Charger but with a 180HP V-6 thats even worse than getting a 3900 Pound Park Avenue with a 205 HP engine. Your better off with an Altima or another midsize sedan.
Toyota is closing on Chevrolet as the top brand in the US automotive market. Can Toyota’s web site be contributing to their success? Based on Compete’s Website Engagement Study, the answer is yes.
A look at traffic shows that Toyota was consistently ahead of Chevrolet in the number of people visiting their site until the October Malibu launch. The heavy marketing push for Malibu drove traffic increases of 30% and more and Chevrolet.com exceeded 2 million unique visitors for three months in a row, until January, when Toyota reversed a downtrend and again surpassed Chevy.
Mailbu is the Lone Ranger for GM. The data is here.
A look at traffic shows that Toyota was consistently ahead of Chevrolet in the number of people visiting their site until the October Malibu launch.
I don't know if it still holds true, but I've read in the past that GM customers are less likely to use the internet for car shopping than those of foreign brands.
I think you'd be very happy with a LaCrosse. My girlfriend's had hers for over three years and is very happy with it and tells me she'd buy another one. In fact, out of all our cars, I'd say we use the LaCrosse the most. It's got solid fit and finish, a nice upscale-looking interior, it delivers decent power, a great ride, excellent fuel economy, and happy with regular gasoline. She purchased the car new for considerably less than a comparably-equipped Camry and didn't have to endure the shark-like tendencies of the local Toyota dealer.
I don't know if it still holds true, but I've read in the past that GM customers are less likely to use the internet for car shopping than those of foreign brands.
Of course. If they used the Internet, they'd find out how much better most import makes are. :shades:
Heck, I'm GM's Number One fan and practically an internet addict. I go by my own experience when it comes to purchasing an automobile, not the opinions of some import fanboys or some aging irrelevant hippie at CR. My experience tells me the better buy is Buick!
I appreciate what you say, but, in the big scheme of things, there just ain't enough of you folks to matter...a couple of neighborhoods do not a trend make...
That's definitely true. I mean, I see two '79 New Yorkers and a '76 LeMans in my neighborhood, practically on a daily basis. But I should point out that two of them are in my garage and one sits out in the driveway, so it's not like there's a plethora of those disco era survivors running around.
Although oddly, in the past year or so I've seen at least two other '79 NYer 5th Ave editions within a couple miles of my house, and a '79-80 Newport lived at the other end of my street for awhile. Considering the '79-81 big Chryslers weren't very popular even when new, and weren't put together all that well, maybe that does qualify as a plethora! :shades:
Now I don't think it's very hard or expensive (other than gasoline costs) to keep those old 70's dinosaurs running. And even something like Lemko's '88 Park Ave isn't really all that complicated or expensive. I'd imagine it would be cheaper to repair and maintain a 20 year old Buick or a 30+ year old Pontiac or Chrysler, than it would for most current cars when they get to be 20-30 years old.
But then, who knows? My 2000 Intrepid is 8 1/2 years old, and really only started getting a bit expensive in 2007. And while its indisposed right now, it's most likely just some sensor. In contrast, my first car, a 1980 Malibu, was getting a bit junky by the time it reached the same age, and my Intrepid has been more reliable to 140,000 miles than the Malibu was to 100K, which was when I got rid of it. My Mom bought that car new and gave it to me when I got my license, so I knew its history. Along the line, that Malibu needed new rear axles, a new water pump, new starter, new alternator, new a/c compressor, new heater core, new muffler, and probably a few things I'm forgetting. That was all stuff that the Intrepid never needed though, although it had things fail, like a $210 (parts + labor) thermostat housing that probably would've been a $5.00 part on the Malibu, which I could've done myself. The Intrepid has also needed more suspension work, as both bearing hubs have been replaced. I don't think the Malibu never needed any suspension work, except for shocks and alignments and lubes. Oh, and the cooling lines for the transmission...something that you never had to even think about on an older car, Chrysler turned into a regular maintenance item on the Intrepid. :sick: So, ya win some, ya lose some, I guess.
I have skimmed over some of what has been posted. All I want to ask is- WHERE ARE THE supposedly BIG 3 right now in the wake of the fuel price crisis???
I was reading an article the other day about the top 14 hybrid vehicles. None of the BIG 3 were even in the mix. Toyota/ Honda basically dominate the market. With all of the strain on the Big 3 - why havent they learned to take advantage of the opportunity that exists??? Domestic ar manufacturers seem to be in the dark ages creating V12's and V8's like gas still costs 1.25/gallon. In an article on Ward's Dealer Business- The Product manager of GM's new Pontiac G* stated " The G8 is the flagship of our lineup". Are you kidding me???? LOL
The Big 3 will not exist by 2010 if they do not get their strategy in place for the average consumer!
There were tumbleweed and blowing sand across the Buick exhibit at the NYIAS...but enough room for everyone to park their butt for a quick lunch bfore heading off to the crowds again at the imports. Buick was tucked in a remote corner of the exhibit floor by a snack stand.
Oh yeah, Corvette and Mustang were the biggest draw...hint, hint.
Well, those pretentious prejudiced import fanboys in NYC don't know the excellent value in Buick as we in Philly. The Buick exhibit at the Philadelphia Auto Show drew a pretty good crowd. Oh, Buick is grandpop's car? Grandpop didn't get to live so long being stupid. Oh, Buick isn't cool? All the so-called "cool" people I knew are currently working at McJobs while the sensible people have great careers or have their own businesses.
I know that Nummi plant, someone I talk to used to intern there. It's amusing how they make Toyotas and Pontiacs in the same place with basically almost the same car. Anyone buying a Matrix should really look at the Vibe since they're almost the same thing.
Funny how they DON'T make the Matrix and the Vibe in the same plant. The NUMMI plant makes the Vibe, the Corolla sedan, and the Tacoma but not the Matrix. Toyota makes the Matrix in its own plant in Cambridge, Ontario, Canada.
How right you are! While I have never before purchased a Toyota nor a Pontiac, ever, I was attracted to the Vibe due to it carrying a domestic name and domestic assembly point. Oh... and my spousal unit wanted it!
hudsonthedog: Ask a teenager what they think of the Chrysler 300 or Dodge Charger or Dodge Challenger or Ford Mustang or Chevrolet Camaro. I'll even lump in the Pontiac G8, Pontiac Solstice, Saturn Sky, and of course the high performance vehicles like the Cadillac CTS-V, Chevrolet Corvette, Dodge Viper, Chevrolet Cobalt SS. You'll find that the "coolness" rating of these vehicles ranks up there with any other vehicle under $100k. Even the Ford Fusion and new Malibu have some sort of "coolness" factor (as much as mid-sized mainstream sedans can).
Subtracting the teenage gearheads who follow the industry, I would say that about the only car on that list that most teenagers would find to be "cool" is the Mustang. The Camaro isn't even out yet, and the Dodge Challenger is so rare that I have yet to see one even at the local Dodge dealer.
Most of them probably don't even know what a Saturn Sky, Pontiac G8 and Cadillac CTS-V are - and they wouldn't care once they did know.
Sorry, but even a fair number of the teenage gearheads just aren't into V-8s anymore.
The Corvette is rapidly gaining an image as the vehicle of choice for pot-bellied 50-somethings who wear far too much gold jewelry. They buy a Corvette as a way to recapture at least a whiff of youth.
I think you underestimate just how damaged the images of most American brands are out in the real world.
hudsonthedog: No teenager thinks that a Ford Taurus or Chevrolet Impala (with the possible exception of the SS) is cool...but they also don't think that the Camry or Accord are cool.
The Harrisburg paper recently ran the results of a national survey of teenagers that asked them what car they would like to own. One of the top five choices was the Accord, along with the Civic.
The Corvette thing hurt me! Last shred of good old USA coolness, dashed to bits!
According to one survey, here is an automotive brand loyalty rank:
Automotive Toyota BMW/Mercedes (tie) Honda Nissan Saab Chevrolet Jeep Volkswagen Hyundai Chrysler/Volvo (tie) Ford Kia General Motors
You know what's pulling Chevy...trucks and that 'Vette. Where the heck is Buick???
The Brand Keys Customer Loyalty Engagement Index® is an annual syndicated study — initiated in 1997 — that currently examines customers' relationships with 382 brands in 57 categories.
The sample is made up of men and women 18 to 65 years of age drawn from the nine U.S. Census regions. Respondents (50:50 M/F and an even-age-spread representation) are screened according to category particulars, then asked to assess the brand for which they have been determined to be a "customer." The screening varies from category to category, but generally respondents fall into the top 20 percent of the customer base. Eighty-five percent of the interviews are conducted via telephone. The remaining 15 percent are collected via central-location intercepts among "cell phone only" respondents.
GM should be happy people in the US still know who they are!
The chart below shows an aggregate score reflecting a brand’s total perception level across the seven areas. Scores are rounded to the nearest percent. Keep in mind that these scores don’t reflect the qualities of the brand’s vehicles, only the strength of the overall brand in the eyes of car buyers.
BestWorst Brand Score Brand Score Toyota 189 Buick 25 Honda 146 Mercury 22 Ford 112 Mitsubishi 21 Chevrolet 110 Audi 14 GMC 102 Acura 8
Here is the top five by category: Safety, Quality, Value, Performance, Green, Design/Style, Tech.
This is one rag's view. Your own perception is what counts.
That's some bizarre chart. I wonder what exactly their data is. I'd certainly never expect audi and acura that low. I have to agree, they're kinda the unknown lux brands compared to lexus, mercedes, bmw, infiniti, but certainly not the worst brands perceived.
No leasing in my world except in the old days we did alot of finance leasing whereas the car was bought at dealer invoice and it would be depreciated at 1 1/2% @ month..This was done through our leasing company and it gave us the option to dump the car at any time and usually somewhere between 75k and 90k miles the car was sold..If the sale price exceeded the depreciated value our account was credited and if there was a shortfall we owed..
The modern day lease through your car company is expensive and a waste of money..It's a rental pure and simple whereas the factory up front costs are high and the mileage restrictions are stupid..I know you can buy mileage, but who wants to look for a car every couple years or try to buy out leases.
Good Luck on your Smart Car!!! Roger Penske will give you a hug..Another scam on the American people..It's a high priced moped..
Gas consumption is not a problem, just the joy of driving and not being restricted in what I choose to drive has always been my freedom..At my age I will leave the climate discussion up to pin-headed liberals and continue to live my life as free-wheeling senior trying to recreate those good old days..So what if gas is $5.00/gal..
A car is a depreciating asset so I tend to buy on the cheap end..After owning some 43 cars, cars dealers can be a pain and honest opinions iffy..Due to my penchant for smooth cruising, vibration-free, 80+, my hunt for a great wheel balancer is always on the menu..haven't found one in the Venice Sarasota area yet..The dealer gets to repeat his force-balance on the front tires. Operator error is very high on this method and I may have a bent wheel..It's a dilemma, but I have to see the wheel run-out first. It's a gamble when buying a used car, but it will be fixed-pronto!!
I hope when voting time rolls around that the good folks on this website realize why we are begging the world to let us have some oil and relieve your pain...I know all of you are in the spirit of "GREEN", needing more pain to save the planet for the "POLAR BEAR"...Yes, there will be "GREEN JOBS" in the future and a whole goob of "SOCIAL ENGINEERING" to enhance your lives. Slow down, dial down, and bend over..... The tooth fairy is alive..
There's a bunch of young guys down the street who own an eclectic variety of vehicles. One actually has a black CTS-V, another has a red 2005 Buick LaCrosse CXL with the chrome factory wheels, another has an Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight Regency of my Park Avenue's vintage, and another has an older Acura TL.
The Civic's been popular for some time, but the Accord? I hope they mean the coupe. You got some "old" teenagers out there if they want the sedan.
Believe it or not, I have a friend in his late 20's who recently traded an Accord coupe in on an '08 sedan! I forget what year, exactly, the coupe was, but it was the '03-07 style, V-6, black, leather, very well-loaded and really nice.
But, he was just in the mood for something different, so he traded it on the sedan. I'm not sure of the trim level, though. It has a sunroof, 4-cyl, and cloth interior. White with a tan/beige interior. He put aftermarket rims on it, which I'm sure weren't cheap.
And after doing all that, the other day he was complaining about not having money for gas so he wasn't driving any further than absolutely necessary for work. :confuse:
The Civic would have paid for itself over a few years of better gas mileage.
Not in the 90s it wouldn't have. And besides if the Neon was as terrible as you say, think of all you saved on gas while it was in the shop
Its just too bad you now have all these artificial limits that prevent you from looking at the whole market and picking what best fits your needs. Its sad. But as your career grows and you can spend more and more of your disposable income on transportation, maybe you can get a domestically produced Lear Jet or yacht or something.
I don't know if it still holds true, but I've read in the past that GM customers are less likely to use the internet for car shopping than those of foreign brands.
Of course. If they used the Internet, they'd find out how much better most import makes are.
Actually, I saw the ratings for Honda and Toyota websites as being generally lower because they don't have enough information about the vehicle or options, etc. I think Mini has one of the more remarkable websites, they actually seem to understand branding and marketing.
Toyota seems to understand ad placement and product placement on the internet, I am curious to see if Toyota's marketing guy can work that for Ford or not.
Comments
Regards,
OW
35K and slicing and dicing!
Regards,
OW
Past tense is right. To this point, the most exciting thing about me for all of the GMs and Fords I've owned was getting rid of them. :shades: :lemon:
FWIW, my 2000 Intrepid was a pretty reliable car until just last year. I think I had to sink about $2,000 into it in 2007, although that also included a lot of maintenance items that the mechanic said the car really didn't need, but I didn't want to take any chances. For instance, I wanted the coolant and hoses changed. He said they were fine, but that coolant was about 3 1/2 years old and the hoses were the original ones! The transmission lines were leaking, very slightly, not enough to really worry about but enough to make a mess. Over the year I also needed new front tires, new front bearing hubs, some other suspension work, new front brakes (OEM parts, so they were a bit pricey, but should last longer...hopefully), an a/c recharge, and probably some other things I'm forgetting now.
The car also started 2007 with about 126,000 miles on it, so it wasn't exactly a spring chicken anymore. And now it's at the mechanic, with about 140,000 miles on it, because of stalling issues. The final straw was when it left me stranded at work, although it did start up, reluctantly, the next day.
I would consider another Chrysler product...IF they built something today that really caught my eye. I do like the Charger, although I don't care for the interior. Only problem is, there are simply other cars out there that I like better. A 4-cyl Altima would probably deliver about the same performance as the Charger 3.5, with better fuel economy. And if I wanted to go all-out and get a loaded-up V-8, I think the Pontiac G8 is just a better package.
The Intrepid is the only car I ever bought new. Everything else has been used...sometimes VERY used. So if it ended up being a piece of junk, often old age or neglect/abuse by the previous owners was more to blame than anything Detroit did to it on the assembly line. So I guess I can't really say that I've ever felt burned by a particular brand.
I do remember a 1982 Malibu wagon that my grandparents bought new, that they hated. It fried its ECU twice, and they just weren't used to a car that small, with that little power. My other grandparents, on my Dad's side, had a 1975 Dart Swinger that would stall out without provocation (just like my Intrepid!), and the dealer couldn't fix it, so they ditched it for a '77 Granada that promptly ate its transmission. And my Mom's '75 LeMans needed a new distributor when it was only about a year or two old. And after 1977, it never ran right, but that seemed to coincide with Dad wrecking it, and after it was fixed it just never ran right again.
I like minivans. Chrysler is the only domestic maker of them at the moment, but I follow the rollout of the new flavors pretty closely. Stuff like power sliding doors and Stow-n-Go seats excite me.
I'm curious to see the VW version of the Chrysler minivan.
Ford and GM vans didn't interest me as much although the old Windstar interiors were fine.
Now Ford has my interest with the Edge (I like boxy cars - ergo my short fling with those 70's Volvos).
If I was going to a sedan, I'd test drive the Malibu for sure.
And I really like the way the Sky design turned out.
There are some others, (oh, please update the Ford Ranger), but I'm still on my first cups of coffee this morning.
I think there is some truth to this. The trends of switching, in my observation are generally as follows:
Chrysler people who get disaffected, often switched to GM, rarely to Ford.
GM disaffectees often switched to Ford - then to Japanese, rarely to Chrysler.
Ford disaffectees usually switched straight to imports.
Why, I can't tell ya, but I've seen it happen time after time.
Oddly - when there is the occasional Japanese car disaffectee, and it does happen, though not often, switch to GM! They're about the only ones who do. What our Big 3 never got was that once they burned a customer, they were gone for good. The cost of that is incalculable, but they didn't care, thinking there was a new crop of suckers born every day. All they tried to do was piss the public off LESS than the competition....... Made it easy for the Japanese to pick us off, even with tinny little crap boxes at first, because they RAN and RAN. Now, they make really nice cars - we have no chance to get their customers back, IMO. Best we can do is slow the bleeding.
And then there's the coolness factor. No current teenager thinks an American car is cool. Trucks maybe, but not cars.
I don't buy this (and your buyer crossover analysis lacks something as well, but I'm not going there now). Ask a teenager what they think of the Chrysler 300 or Dodge Charger or Dodge Challenger or Ford Mustang or Chevrolet Camaro. I'll even lump in the Pontiac G8, Pontiac Solstice, Saturn Sky, and of course the high performance vehicles like the Cadillac CTS-V, Chevrolet Corvette, Dodge Viper, Chevrolet Cobalt SS. You'll find that the "coolness" rating of these vehicles ranks up there with any other vehicle under $100k. Even the Ford Fusion and new Malibu have some sort of "coolness" factor (as much as mid-sized mainstream sedans can).
No teenager thinks that a Ford Taurus or Chevrolet Impala (with the possible exception of the SS) is cool...but they also don't think that the Camry or Accord are cool.
My first two cars were Buicks and they were excellent!!! My first new car was a 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic - another excellent vehicle from which I traded-up to a new 1989 Cadillac Brougham. I've also had many used domestic vehicles which have served me well. I must be the luckiest guy in the world! :P
I didn't care for the 1998 Intrigue starting @ 3k miles with brake and steering issues, so it went back to it's maker around 26k miles with a check in my paws for $24,475.62, cost me 874.20 to own..Gave the dealer the check and left the dealership with a new 1999 Intrigue GLS w/3.5 alum blocked V-6, DOHC., fun car had a SLP catback exhaust installed by the Olds dealer..75k mi it was gone and a 2002 Intrigue appeared and was broomed @119.5k..Next is the 06GPGT the bargain set of wheels..fun drive and rewards me with the 20.mpgs..
Having an internet pricing game with a local Ford dealer on an 08 Mustang GT Deluxe w/5sp manual--a plain entry level fun car. When cash pricing gets down to 22k I will introduce them to my tradein..the Pontiac..
At my elevated age of 74, a sloppy fit & finish, low-tech, loud, and rattling Mustang should make my day..Much better than a buzzy 4-cylinder Asian creation
Someone on this thread was extolling the virtues of Hyundai autos and I just read an article about the it's CEO, 70yrs young was sentenced to 3 yrs in prison for embezzling $100 million..Who says the old guys can't run a car company and make a little extra on the side..Also the ex-chairman of Samsung was found to have $4.5 billion in hidden assets..Korea seems to be hotbed for crooks..
Maybe it was just a fundraiser for the Democratic Party..Forgot, the party has the honorable George Soros doing it's bidding by shorting the US$$$ raising the price of oil and then endowing the profits to Donkey coffers..
Off to the beach folks, enjoy the day...If you don't like our car, truck or SUV, get rid of it..If your second choice sucks, then use Public Transportation, provided at taxpayers expense for disgruntled car owners..If it's an old diesel bus, complain and maybe the govt will buy a $400,000 hybrid bus to appease the working class and the non-working professional enviromental protestors..
Sometimes you never know, though. I have some friends who bought a '94 Civic EX, brand-new, and it was one of the worst cars they ever owned. By the time it got to 80-90K miles, it had blown its second head gasket, and I know it had a/c problems along the line, as well. They ended up ditching it for a Saturn S-series.
I know that's not typical of a Honda, but still, it shows that any brand can have issues. Actually, I think the main reason that Civic acted up on them so badly is because I was the one that recommended it to them!
My priorities are, well, different, than yours. It's certainly not a money issue. I could swing the lease on a new CTS if I really wanted to, and I could also stop by the local Chevy dealer tomorrow and write a check for the off-lease CTS sitting in front of the building. Instead, I'll be heading past the Chevy dealer to look at and most likely write a slightly smaller check for the smart fortwo I got a call on today.
If you like, you can call dibs on my buzzy 4-cylinder Asian creation if you think your wallet might not win a tug-of-war between the Mustang and the gas pump. :P
Herein lies my biggest beef with the Little 3: Changing names before they are capable of developing the model to be a brand.
Regards,
OW
The problem for me on American cars is that their small car lineups have been really lacking and yet are priced very similarly. Chrysler has nothing small and good. Ford's best car is actually a Mazda, so that doesn't count. GM's gotten better, but still isn't fully competitive with Civics/Corolla's/etc. I want my excitement in the world of small, and the big 3 need to make that happen ASAP.
Well, what do you know?:
"Under pressure to make its trucks more fuel efficient, Ford is planning to build a smaller pickup on a modified version of the F-150 platform, according to two people who have been briefed on the company's plans. The people asked not to be named because the plans aren't yet public.
The truck would use lighter-weight materials such as aluminum and thinner, high-strength steel and would be about the size of the Ford Ranger compact pickup. Instead of a V-8, the truck would likely have a 6-cylinder engine with some extra kick from Ford's EcoBoost technology, which uses turbocharging and direct-injection to improve performance and fuel economy."
Ford cuts truck production, plans smaller pickup
They're just as pricey as Toyota or Honda though...
Is that a bad thing though?? I mean, if you're in the market for one, it has been used extensively in Europe, so it does have a track record that can be looked at.
I appreciate what you say, but, in the big scheme of things, there just ain't enough of you folks to matter...a couple of neighborhoods do not a trend make...
And, if there really WERE enough of you to matter, then imports would not have 50% of the market, plain and simple...
You guys are simply part of a club, probably a sub-branch of those who have replica orange cars of the Dukes of Hazzard...
They weight at least 36-3700 pounds and are gas guzzlers. The 420HP performance versions get 13/19 which would be within the fuel economy range of a Ford Explorer or other midsize SUV. If you had only about $20,000 to spend you could get including discounts and tax a 300C or Charger but with a 180HP V-6 thats even worse than getting a 3900 Pound Park Avenue with a 205 HP engine. Your better off with an Altima or another midsize sedan.
Regards,
OW
A look at traffic shows that Toyota was consistently ahead of Chevrolet in the number of people visiting their site until the October Malibu launch. The heavy marketing push for Malibu drove traffic increases of 30% and more and Chevrolet.com exceeded 2 million unique visitors for three months in a row, until January, when Toyota reversed a downtrend and again surpassed Chevy.
Mailbu is the Lone Ranger for GM. The data is here.
link title
As you can see, indications show excitement for GM is spotty at best. Excitement = Interest = Sale
Regards,
OW
I don't know if it still holds true, but I've read in the past that GM customers are less likely to use the internet for car shopping than those of foreign brands.
Of course. If they used the Internet, they'd find out how much better most import makes are. :shades:
That's definitely true. I mean, I see two '79 New Yorkers and a '76 LeMans in my neighborhood, practically on a daily basis. But I should point out that two of them are in my garage and one sits out in the driveway, so it's not like there's a plethora of those disco era survivors running around.
Although oddly, in the past year or so I've seen at least two other '79 NYer 5th Ave editions within a couple miles of my house, and a '79-80 Newport lived at the other end of my street for awhile. Considering the '79-81 big Chryslers weren't very popular even when new, and weren't put together all that well, maybe that does qualify as a plethora! :shades:
Now I don't think it's very hard or expensive (other than gasoline costs) to keep those old 70's dinosaurs running. And even something like Lemko's '88 Park Ave isn't really all that complicated or expensive. I'd imagine it would be cheaper to repair and maintain a 20 year old Buick or a 30+ year old Pontiac or Chrysler, than it would for most current cars when they get to be 20-30 years old.
But then, who knows? My 2000 Intrepid is 8 1/2 years old, and really only started getting a bit expensive in 2007. And while its indisposed right now, it's most likely just some sensor. In contrast, my first car, a 1980 Malibu, was getting a bit junky by the time it reached the same age, and my Intrepid has been more reliable to 140,000 miles than the Malibu was to 100K, which was when I got rid of it. My Mom bought that car new and gave it to me when I got my license, so I knew its history. Along the line, that Malibu needed new rear axles, a new water pump, new starter, new alternator, new a/c compressor, new heater core, new muffler, and probably a few things I'm forgetting. That was all stuff that the Intrepid never needed though, although it had things fail, like a $210 (parts + labor) thermostat housing that probably would've been a $5.00 part on the Malibu, which I could've done myself. The Intrepid has also needed more suspension work, as both bearing hubs have been replaced. I don't think the Malibu never needed any suspension work, except for shocks and alignments and lubes. Oh, and the cooling lines for the transmission...something that you never had to even think about on an older car, Chrysler turned into a regular maintenance item on the Intrepid. :sick: So, ya win some, ya lose some, I guess.
I was reading an article the other day about the top 14 hybrid vehicles. None of the BIG 3 were even in the mix. Toyota/ Honda basically dominate the market. With all of the strain on the Big 3 - why havent they learned to take advantage of the opportunity that exists??? Domestic ar manufacturers seem to be in the dark ages creating V12's and V8's like gas still costs 1.25/gallon. In an article on Ward's Dealer Business- The Product manager of GM's new Pontiac G* stated " The G8 is the flagship of our lineup". Are you kidding me???? LOL
The Big 3 will not exist by 2010 if they do not get their strategy in place for the average consumer!
Oh yeah, Corvette and Mustang were the biggest draw...hint, hint.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
Funny how they DON'T make the Matrix and the Vibe in the same plant. The NUMMI plant makes the Vibe, the Corolla sedan, and the Tacoma but not the Matrix. Toyota makes the Matrix in its own plant in Cambridge, Ontario, Canada.
Subtracting the teenage gearheads who follow the industry, I would say that about the only car on that list that most teenagers would find to be "cool" is the Mustang. The Camaro isn't even out yet, and the Dodge Challenger is so rare that I have yet to see one even at the local Dodge dealer.
Most of them probably don't even know what a Saturn Sky, Pontiac G8 and Cadillac CTS-V are - and they wouldn't care once they did know.
Sorry, but even a fair number of the teenage gearheads just aren't into V-8s anymore.
The Corvette is rapidly gaining an image as the vehicle of choice for pot-bellied 50-somethings who wear far too much gold jewelry. They buy a Corvette as a way to recapture at least a whiff of youth.
I think you underestimate just how damaged the images of most American brands are out in the real world.
hudsonthedog: No teenager thinks that a Ford Taurus or Chevrolet Impala (with the possible exception of the SS) is cool...but they also don't think that the Camry or Accord are cool.
The Harrisburg paper recently ran the results of a national survey of teenagers that asked them what car they would like to own. One of the top five choices was the Accord, along with the Civic.
According to one survey, here is an automotive brand loyalty rank:
Automotive
Toyota
BMW/Mercedes (tie)
Honda
Nissan
Saab
Chevrolet
Jeep
Volkswagen
Hyundai
Chrysler/Volvo (tie)
Ford
Kia
General Motors
You know what's pulling Chevy...trucks and that 'Vette. Where the heck is Buick???
The Brand Keys Customer Loyalty Engagement Index® is an annual syndicated study — initiated in 1997 — that currently examines customers' relationships with 382 brands in 57 categories.
The sample is made up of men and women 18 to 65 years of age drawn from the nine U.S. Census regions. Respondents (50:50 M/F and an even-age-spread representation) are screened according to category particulars, then asked to assess the brand for which they have been determined to be a "customer." The screening varies from category to category, but generally respondents fall into the top 20 percent of the customer base. Eighty-five percent of the interviews are conducted via telephone. The remaining 15 percent are collected via central-location intercepts among "cell phone only" respondents.
GM should be happy people in the US still know who they are!
Regards,
OW
The chart below shows an aggregate score reflecting a brand’s total perception level across the seven areas. Scores are rounded to the nearest percent. Keep in mind that these scores don’t reflect the qualities of the brand’s vehicles, only the strength of the overall brand in the eyes of car buyers.
Best Worst
Brand Score Brand Score
Toyota 189 Buick 25
Honda 146 Mercury 22
Ford 112 Mitsubishi 21
Chevrolet 110 Audi 14
GMC 102 Acura 8
Here is the top five by category: Safety, Quality, Value, Performance, Green, Design/Style, Tech.
This is one rag's view. Your own perception is what counts.
Regards,
OW
The modern day lease through your car company is expensive and a waste of money..It's a rental pure and simple whereas the factory up front costs are high and the mileage restrictions are stupid..I know you can buy mileage, but who wants to look for a car every couple years or try to buy out leases.
Good Luck on your Smart Car!!! Roger Penske will give you a hug..Another scam on the American people..It's a high priced moped..
Gas consumption is not a problem, just the joy of driving and not being restricted in what I choose to drive has always been my freedom..At my age I will leave the climate discussion up to pin-headed liberals and continue to live my life as free-wheeling senior trying to recreate those good old days..So what if gas is $5.00/gal..
A car is a depreciating asset so I tend to buy on the cheap end..After owning some 43 cars, cars dealers can be a pain and honest opinions iffy..Due to my penchant for smooth cruising, vibration-free, 80+, my hunt for a great wheel balancer is always on the menu..haven't found one in the Venice Sarasota area yet..The dealer gets to repeat his force-balance on the front tires. Operator error is very high on this method and I may have a bent wheel..It's a dilemma, but I have to see the wheel run-out first. It's a gamble when buying a used car, but it will be fixed-pronto!!
I hope when voting time rolls around that the good folks on this website realize why we are begging the world to let us have some oil and relieve your pain...I know all of you are in the spirit of "GREEN", needing more pain to save the planet for the "POLAR BEAR"...Yes, there will be "GREEN JOBS" in the future and a whole goob of "SOCIAL ENGINEERING" to enhance your lives. Slow down, dial down, and bend over..... The tooth fairy is alive..
The Civic's been popular for some time, but the Accord? I hope they mean the coupe. You got some "old" teenagers out there if they want the sedan.
They probably meant the Accord coupe. I would agree that they wouldn't want the sedan. But at least the coupe is there to add some zest to the lineup.
But, he was just in the mood for something different, so he traded it on the sedan. I'm not sure of the trim level, though. It has a sunroof, 4-cyl, and cloth interior. White with a tan/beige interior. He put aftermarket rims on it, which I'm sure weren't cheap.
And after doing all that, the other day he was complaining about not having money for gas so he wasn't driving any further than absolutely necessary for work. :confuse:
Not in the 90s it wouldn't have. And besides if the Neon was as terrible as you say, think of all you saved on gas while it was in the shop
Its just too bad you now have all these artificial limits that prevent you from looking at the whole market and picking what best fits your needs. Its sad. But as your career grows and you can spend more and more of your disposable income on transportation, maybe you can get a domestically produced Lear Jet or yacht or something.
Of course. If they used the Internet, they'd find out how much better most import makes are.
Actually, I saw the ratings for Honda and Toyota websites as being generally lower because they don't have enough information about the vehicle or options, etc. I think Mini has one of the more remarkable websites, they actually seem to understand branding and marketing.
Toyota seems to understand ad placement and product placement on the internet, I am curious to see if Toyota's marketing guy can work that for Ford or not.