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Comments
Not to me, it looks cheap and boring. Even the SS turbo model. I'm sure I'd like the performance, but that "look at me, I'm a tool" rear spoiler is hideous.
I'd buy a Focus over the Cobalt, and a Mazda 3 over both of them. I'd buy the Civic over the Corolla, but I'd probably go with the Mazda 3 overall.
I haven't seen a Cobalt SS vs the new Mazdaspeed 3 test, probably doesn't matter as I probably see 5 Mazdaspeed 3s for every Cobalt SS on the road.
Well, the US is still one of the top exporters in the world, so somebody is buying.
How much of that is food?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Aren't we glad they don't build cars anymore?
I am, as many of the cars they built during their careers were uncompetitive and a waste of resources. Why should I have to subsidize GM's mistakes and their decision to work for GM and go down with the ship. Companies go bankrupt everyday and we don't bail everyone out. I don't buy for a minute that the auto worker is more important to the economy than the person who works in a small factory or at an engineering firm etc. If that position is no longer needed, it's no longer needed. Subsidizing demand or production is not productive and will most likely hurt in the long run more than it will help.
This entitlement mentality is beyond me and I don't understand it. Things change and if you can't change with them, well I hope you saved some money. It has been that way for generations as technology and processes have changed.
Anyone with half a brain should have seen where GM was headed since the 80's. Those who didn't encourage their kids to get an education/trade to avoid working for GM and Ford had their head in the sand.
I buy American when I can, but I have to like the product. I'm not going to buy a GM product just because it may employ somebody in Michigan. But it doesn't matter much as I usually buy them a year or two old as it saves me a lot of money that I can better use elsewhere. Like saving for a rainy day.
No doubt we export a lot of food, but it my area (central illinois) it keeps many busy, but if you look at our export data, goods make up the top categories. We also export billions in services. Nothing wrong with using our brains regarding engineering and accounting/consulting service.
tradestats
If you make junk you go bankrupt. If you make great products, you flourish.
K.I.S.S.
Regards,
OW
If we boycott Chinese goods as many think we should do, there go GM's sales in China, their biggest growth market. Look at what China did to Google when they had a spat.
While I'd agree that the quality would lack as much as the competition, that and reliability would be relative to what was out there (mainly domestics under that argument). As far as safety and fuel economy, if not for the Feds, we'd still be driving gas thirsty big block V8's with steel dashes and no seat belts. It is our Government, and not the competition from automakers that dictates the safety and economy, as well as emissions (the main reason that diesels aren't being built here).
".....Which means our entertainment industry - consumed all over the world; our software industry - consumed all over the world; our commercial aircraft - bought all over the world; our biotechnology and pharmaceuticals - bought by the entire world - would all end up serving US markets only."
While there is a lot of truth to this, I feel that protectionism would be overwhelmed by demand (imagine the Beatles not playing here or Marilyn Monroe being blocked in England??? I can't, no matter what). Our software, in spite of copyright laws is pirated by the lawless countries like China. Our private commercial arcraft companies compete against partailly state owned companies (Airbus), and WE end up paying for the R&D for pharmaceuticals, while others benefit by paying not much more than the cost of the pills themselves because our pharmaceutical companies aren't allowed to charge much more than the cost of raw materials in some other countries.
".....The world has always continued to change - we should get with the program. "
We should. Force other countrie to play here by the rules THEY set up for us to play THERE.
THEN we'll see some bung holes pucker, and it won't be ours.
Unfortunately that happens way more often than you might guess. One of our local dancers is Canadian and had a heck of a time getting her visa renewed. (Trey McIntyre Project). See also New bill may speed U.S. visas for artists (NY Times). Harrison and McCartney were actually deported from the US back in the early days.
It's not just cars that are hard to import.
Regards,
OW
etc.
Place the blame where it is do. Instead of blaming the American companies for their own stupidity and getting themselves into the financial and poor reputation/troubles they did, everyone blames everyone else and their mother for what happen, except for the true culprits in this messes, the American auto companies/management themselves.
Its incredible to see, post bankruptcy/loans/bailouts and all that mounting evidence, etc how people can still shift the blame and responsibility away from the American auto companies themselves and live in such denial that they caused it to themselves. Keep blaming the foreign companies, the economy, American consumers, gov't. If it makes you all feel better go right ahead.
Ford as made impressive progress in the last 2 years and GM has begun moving in the right direction. Some of their top brass have finally admitted, especially at GM, and I think Toyota is guilty of this to a good extent, they spent years pushing high production/volume for so many models rather than focusing more money on fewer models and their quality suffered. Just like in AA or drug rehab, admitting their is a problem is the first step to recovery
Hmmm....other areas where the competition beat GM, F and C. Bottom line, it took total failure for change to take root. Now thay make 'em here and wiped out the old GM business model once and for all. Good Riddance.
Regards,
OW
OK, but had GM had the same access to SE Asia that they have here, would they have changed their business model to be able to compete there?
As far as the competition beating us in safety and economy, the only reason for FE is that we had cheap gas and the Germans and Japanese didn't.
As far as safety, I'd be willing to bet that no matter what any company's business model is, or how good their products are, if Tata was allowed to import the Nano AS IS for $2500, or the Chinese were allowed to import their cars as is for the same price, it would wreak havoc on the American auto industry, including the Japanese and Koreans.
While I generally am against starting trade wars, you bring up an idea I could get behind. Use additional sanctions in a very limited way, only to apply the same conditions to other countries as that same country applies to us. Not broad-based, just targeted. And always AFTER another country has that policy first.
Of course we should look at if an when we do those sorts of things as well. Because turnabout is fair play. I'm no trade expert, but don't we also have some protectionist policies in place? As I recall, we tax imported trucks heavily, for example.
China or somewhere else? GM is doing great in China.
As far as safety, I'd be willing to bet that no matter what any company's business model is, or how good their products are, if Tata was allowed to import the Nano AS IS for $2500, or the Chinese were allowed to import their cars as is for the same price, it would wreak havoc on the American auto industry, including the Japanese and Koreans.
The biggest reason we have safety is the US Government. Like government involvement or not, they pushed seat belts and airbags. GM invented the airbag, didn't they? But they said they would be too expensive to actually put in many vehicles. AFAIR it was Chrysler who first started offering airbags standard on all cars.
Well, if that's the answer, we don't deserve to make cars. Just like back in the 70's, the only motorcycles that were reliable were the Asians and the Harley's needed a van to follow them with replacement parts. The auto industry is EXACTLY the same analogy and the van symbolizes the American TAXPAYER!!.
If they can do it, we should be able to do it even better....but WE CAN"T!
What a lame excuse for billion dollar failure corporations. Pitiful!
"Oh, we can't achieve CAFE 35 MPG...IT's IMPOSSIBLE!"
Guess who will, Mr Lutz?
Regards,
OW
Who needs air bags? OR the best safety, quality, dependability, customers, etc., etc....
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
But when that is done, protests go up that we shouldn't do the same thing. Some are from people within that we have to be magnanimous;some, outside this country.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Well you can't even get a golf cart made in the US for $2,500. I paid $2400 for a used 04 48v electric Club Car Precedent last year. A new one was about $6k.
But when that is done, protests go up that we shouldn't do the same thing. Some are from people within that we have to be magnanimous;some, outside this country.
Instead of a general protectionist approach, I could see something like this. Obama goes to country X and says "you guys require all this yada yada paperwork for our products Y. Well we also import your certain products and we are going to institute the same conditions unless you remove the protectionism on products Y." Then if they remove the regulations, no trade war. If they don't, then you give them the same conditions for importing into this country.
In that way, we are not starting the trade war, we are just playing by the same rules that they have created.
Then the congress should define more clearly what American Made means. The defination they use today doesn't really fit what I think it should say. Again perhaps it should be 90%+ from American made products and assembled in the USA... That's American Made.
As a start we should establish the goals and then set 10 years to obtain the goals. JOB DONE.. America go back to work.
Given the large trade deficit, WE are the ones who need to be weaned...
And for those who feel education is the key. I am trying to find the link to an article done about how this isn't so much anymore here in the U.S. If there aren't opportunities, education is useless. Besides, the U.S. is also slipping in higher education arena. China and even India are right on our heels. And they are willing to work for $2.00 an hour with no benefits are you? I am NOT for this thing called "Global Economy". Our children will suffer.
Well, if that's the answer, we don't deserve to make cars."
I think you miss the gist of my argument. It isn't whether we can or can't build a $2500 car here, it's can we build a $2500 car meeting US safety, emissions, and FE standards (which, BTW Tata and the Chinese can't either. That's why their cars aren't sold here).
I do agree about the "we can't do that" attitude of the Big 3, though to be fair, they just wanted to continue doing what sold in the '60's.
$250,000???? Puh-leeze. The ones we have to worry about running this country into the ground wipe their asses with $250,000.
Amen.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Statistics continue to show that education raises the average salaries substantially. In this recession, the unemployment rate among degreed individuals is well below 10%, where it is approaching 20% for those without.
There are no guarantees in life. Even a poor person born in this country is rich by world standards. We should be thankful.
If one isn't a socialist, world standards shouldn't matter. Every region will not be equal, every nation will not be equal. It's not about how someone here compares to Sudan or Haiti, but to other first world nations.
A lot of kids have a fatalistic attitude towards life. They engage in self-destructive behavior because a lot of them believe they will either be dead or behind bars before they're 25. Why should they work at McDonald's for minuimum wage when they can be slingin' rocks on the corner and gettin' paid?
Same with the airbags. It was an oddball option around 1975, but it didn't last long. Then around 1978 for ABS and 1980 for airbags, MB put them in massive scale production with tens of thousands of examples from the beginning and increasing from there.
"They are instead becoming wards of the welfare system or very dangerous criminals. They are not going to simply wise up or perish. They will take what they want from others by any means necessary. That severely impacts the safety and quality of life for those who do become educated or learn a useful trade. We are inundated with more takers and less producers. What are we going to do with these masses of potential criminals and degenerates? Are we going to put them all in prison? Are we going to execute them? Are we going to resort to mass deportations? No, they are here and we've got to give them something worthwhile to do."................................what you say is true, which is why our society will undergo some radical changes in the next decade or two...those uneducated masses cannot just sit at home collecting checks from MY tax money forever, it is THEY who will eventually change or die...all the unskilled labor of the last century, that fed the uneducated masses had jobs that needed no brains at all, and society has changed faster than they could change...they have some major psychological attitude changes so they can re-train and make themselves useful in the future...
At some point, the educated (dare I call them the "haves") will get fed up with all this slothfulness and start shooting back...those who believe they are losing their "entitlements" may get violent, but when those of us who pay the bills get REALLY PO'ed, we will shoot back with twice the firepower, because right and justice are on our side...
lemko, it would be immoral to keep them on the gov't dole just because they find it inconvenient to re-train...since the entire welfare/entitlement system is immoral on its face, changes will have to be made...not because I say so, but because we cannot have 2/3 of this country collecting form the 1/3 that took the time to learn to read and stayed in school past 3rd grade (I refer to the average/typical UAW worker in terms of their level of education, and childish mentality)...
Big pool of labor right now so requiring a 2 year degree cuts through the chaff a bit. Maybe Visteon figures better quality workers are cheaper in the long run.
Lots of community colleges tailor their classes for the local job market. Maybe the requirement is geared toward grads of the local program that features some factory like training for the AA in engineering. Visteon may be helping fund the program so they'll have a somewhat trained pool of grads to go to.
They announced the purchase of the old Visteon factory and what types of jobs they will eventually offer. I don't know much about Carbon Motors.
Thanks,
Chintan
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