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Comments
I'm starting to wonder now where that 50-grit sandpaper quality stuff we used to get came from? And how much lead it had in it? :surprise:
If you look closely, the Asians are doing to cars what they did to computers and TV's. The trick is to make the best products. Anything else is protecting failure afaic.
May the Best Car Win!
Regards,
OW
As far as other products (TV, radios, housewares and such), I do not know if we had quality problems, or they just made them cheaper overseas...I do remember junk transistor radios in the 60s (the 1960s) that said "Made in Japan" and they were junk, by a small company named Sony...I believe they improved their product somewhat over time...
Then Sony went back down after delivering products that didn't have all the features and all the quality that others had: they were riding on their legacy of reliability, good reputation. I won't buy Sony again after a few deficiencies in their TVs and remotes.
I think there's a parallel with toyota-lexus and Sony's method.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
As for cars, I wonder just how truly good a Hyundai would be, as they seem to be improving in reliability, have a great warranty and safety test results are excellent. Are they really reliable? Looks like some price creep. The Genesis Coupe, I test drove, was a nice little car. Looks like the 2011 Mustang trumps them however, with more HP for the buck.
Do people on this board believe that GM will hold on in America, or will it someday be a China and third world sales car, with Corvette spun-off and Cadillac ends up who-knows-where? Perhaps GM America will be electric cars? Just find it hard to see what they represent. I realize up to say 1975, they had some of the better product and style, but today it seems like they are just a tag-along.
Perhaps the rebuild of USA requires some tax revisions where breaks are only given to companies profits coming directly from domestic sales, manufactured by USA workers. The Union need to bend, or fade away, as this is a tough marketplace, and we are no longer a turtle safe within its shell.
And aren't those built in Mexico?
Otherwise, I agree. All of my guitars are built in the U.S. as is most of my shop tools, yard tools, etc, etc, etc. When it comes to cars I have no problem with buying a Honda built in Ohio or an Acura built in Alabama (both of which I have purchased in the past) or my wifes Indiana built Outback...
My Subaru Impreza, well I had no choice since I wanted an economical hatch with AWD and a stick and there are currently 0 offerings of that kind in the D3 lineup. And my little red road rocket S2000, there was no other American offerings besides the Kappa cars which aside from the good looks of the Sky, were total and utter garbage.
And neither of these segments appear to be filled by the D-3 in the near future either. :sick:
Is there any company making shirts in USA???
imidaz: I have heard that Sony quality has been up and down...heck, even Mercedes quality apparently went down for what, 5 years or so???...I have a friend who bought an MB in the late 1990s, he said it was the worst POS he's ever had, spent all of its time in the dealer's garage, parts took 3 weeks or longer to get, he bought a 2002 Jag and loves it...he also had a Mazda that was far superior to his Benz...just goes to show ya...
They are still figuring it out.
...for about the past 30 years.
The answer is we can't expect to do well until we reinvigorate our manufacturing sector. I'm afraid that our standard of living will remain stagnant until we do.
I'm in the construction business and I've seen lumber from Canada, Malasia, Sweden and finished products from other countries for sale at supply houses here. Surely there are enough trees in the United States of the species we need to satisfy our needs. Ask the lumber industry in Oregon and Washington why the mills are silent. The answer lies within our borders and ourselves. Government, Unions and Environmentalists might be good places to make a few changes..
Regards, DQ
What kind?? I know as a lawyer you may mean dress shirts for suits, but here are some collared and tees:
http://www.allamericanclothing.com/shirts.html
I have a couple pair of their jeans and they are great.
Here is a site devoted to American companies that produce clothing here;
http://www.apparelsearch.com/america.htm
And while the construction industry is at it, they should employ U.S. Citizens as well....
I agree with you in principle, but when you say "manufacturing" you raise the issue of "unions"...we have seen what the UAW did to our auto manufacturing, where floorsweepers were paid over $25/hour, closer to $50/hour with benefits, for work that is worth under $10/hour...that is just the wage issue, we haven't even mentioned quality workmanship, and we saw what the UAW did to that...
So, how do we reinvigorate the manufacturing sector and keep costs under control???...let's face it...if the American made product simply costs too much, we will either buy a lower cost import, or, if you put protective tariffs on them, then we will buy fewer domestic products because they cost too much...
For once I will mention "the poor"...they buy Chinese shirts at WalMart because they are $9-12 each...if they were made by USA unionized garment workers, they would cost $$25-50 each and they would buy one shirt, if any...they might get used at Goodwill, meaning that the union cost factor would, again, destroy American industry...
You simply cannot keep raising reatil prices, to pay unskilled workers $50K or more yearly, and expect the rest of the country to pay those inflated prices and "keep the economy going"...at some point, we will just buy less, and the entire industry structir will shrink because we won't need that many workers making shirts, getting paid $30/hour for work that is worth $10/hour...
Some folks think we can just raise the price on everything to cover the union pay scale, but it simply will not work, at least as I see it...
Touche! Ouch!...but true. GM certainly can't do it right, that's for sure! Now that they were BAILED OUT, at least they're trying.
Regards,
OW
It's so simple yet so elusive.
Regards,
OW
One of my retirement funds owns some Hyundai stock. Used to have some Toyota I think.
Doesn't make much difference to my bank account where a company is headquartered.
I think having "local" factories with local jobs has a more direct effect on the economy where you live than who ultimately owns the company (especially since most companies are owned by stockholders who may live all over the world).
So, I see you checked out the website I sent you. Did you notice that the Tees were priced at $8 for no pocket, $9 for pocketed, and $11 for long sleeve??? VERY competitive with the Chinese trash at Walmart.
You mention the "poor", but don't mention the fact that they are "poor" either because they are lazy slobs leeching off our taxes, OR because they lost their job to the foreign competition.
If you think that the unionized workers at this company are the reason Walmart buys their Sh#T from China, then call the BOSS, Lawson Nickol at the All American Clothing Co. at 888-937-8009. I'm wearing a pair of his jeans right now, and they are fantastic. Well made. $33. I bought 3 pair. I will be replacing ALL my jeans with theirs."
On that clothing note, I own a gorgeous well-made Schott leather jacket, maybe my favorite piece of clothing. It's made in the USA. It cost a pretty penny, but no more than similar jackets one can buy at Macy's etc...go there and read the label and see where the similar price is made.
Oldest piece of clothing I have is an old biker jacket I bought from Wilson Leather back in the fall of '88. I had just started college, and my Mom said I should go and buy a nice leather jacket. I'm not sure that's what she had in mind, though. :shades: For being 21.5 years old though, the thing has held up very well. I just checked its label though...Dominican Republic.
I'm afraid that our standard of living is going to continue to erode. We have been living on the principal accumulated by our forbears and having squandered that, we are now running up our credit card to maintain a standard of living we cannot afford.
If we want to sell shirts made here in any quantity we will have to compete on price and quality. This means competitive wages. We grow cotton and we have the market; why can't we make shirts here with modern machinery and $10-15/hr workers ($20-30K yearly)? I know this is a rhetorical question and the answer is the SEIU or AFL-CIO would be out front on opening day and well, you know the rest.
Regards, DQ
Another one......(sigh).....check this web site out:
http://www.allamericanclothing.com/SFNT.html
90 day money back guarantee if you're not satisfied
Tell me they aren't competitive, and they ARE union!!
There is a little, previously local machine shop that makes headsets (Chris King) that are awesome, but a CK goes for about 2x the price of a Shimano Dura Ace (top of the line road bike headset) and they aren't in SB anymore.
My newest mountain bike frameset is a blatant knock off of a Santa Cruz Superlight. It was $400 compared to $1200 at the time.
Since then, Cannondale and Santa Cruz have moved their manufacturing offshore as well.
Well they are not competitive in regards to style. My wife would kill me if I bought her a pair of jeans that look like what they sell on their website.
I can see why many retailers wouldn't want to carry them outside of Farm and Fleet.
But if you like the style and how they fit, I have no doubt they are a quality product that is well worth the money.
Actually you still can get stylish jeans made in the USA, but they are expensive. I've got several pairs of Lucky Brand that are made in the USA. I love them and they last a long time. Lately though, I've noticed some of their lines are made in Mexico, but I recently bought a few pairs at the mall which were made in the USA.
and mine
Actually, they are really high quality, for the price they really do last.
You mention the "poor", but don't mention the fact that they are "poor" either because they are lazy slobs leeching off our taxes, OR because they lost their job to the foreign competition."
I was going to ask you for the website but it was posted a few posts later...
Lazy slobs do not deserve welfare, food stamps, or a roof over their collective heads...PERIOD...let the churches take care of them, and even the churches, yes, G-d's houses, will throw them out of they sit on their collective welfare a**es...
As far as losing your job to foreign competetion, they could also lose their jobs to domestic competition, they need to re-train and do something else...everybody thinks it is all foreigners, but we also compete in this country, or at least we used to...while I do not know where they are based, I understand that MySpace is almost obsolete as "everyone" is moving to Facebook...if true, do we need welfare programs for the MySpace programmers who may be unemployed???...should be bail out Lycos because Google is so much better???
Why can't we accept that there will always be competition, as we have a dynamic economy, folks will lose their jobs, folks WILL GAIN new jobs if they just open their minds to change and re-training.
What has permanently changed is life for the unskilled...for the last 300 years, one could earn a living with an education between 1st grade and a HS diploma, by using one's brawn...and many of those with a HS diploma went on to trade school, learned a valuable trade, and earned their living...that part HAS changed forever...
Autoworkers could do their jobs with 3rd grade educations...many of those I knew in Detroit may not have even gone that far in school, but they could sign their paychecks with an "X"...life for the grade-school dropout has changed, which means the vast uneducated masses out there, who could have thrived from 1776 thru the 1980s, will actually need to go to school, and their offspring will not be able to survive as illiterate as their parents were/are...
That is the challenge for this millenium...we cannot afford to have 2/3 of the folks illiterate and completely uneducated, we must have a 100% literate and educated (or semi-educated, if you will) society...for those families who, for generations, have dropped out of school as soon as they were potty-trained (2nd or 3rd grade), life will change for that family, and then multiply them by millions...
The UAW will no longer be a haven for the "missing links" of society, as they have been for 100 years...no longer can you forget to bathe, read like a chimp and expect to be paid...computer literacy and basic literacy and basic hygiene will be required, something totally foreign to groups like the UAW...from here on in, they will have to prove their worth to an employer, and just showing up with a pick and shovel will not be enough...
For those who have placed no value on education over the generations, they must either change that thinking or perish...
About 66 billion so far in unemployment comp paid out.
Should they get another extension?
Aren't we glad they don't build cars anymore? I'd much rather give them $66 Billion to sit home
This comes up periodically and is mostly wrong. For any vehicle assembled in the US, over 75% of the money spent goes into the local economy, NOT overseas. Profit (when an automaker is even profitable!) is 5-10 cents on the dollar MAX. For a foreign nameplate assembled in the US, you have the breakdown something like this:
foreign profits - $.10
foreign parts - $.20 (keep in mind a lot of foreign parts on US makes as well)
US design - $.05
US parts - $.30
US labor - $.20
US transportation, dealers, marketing, utilities, plant costs, etc. - $.20
So now tell us why a US-assembled foreign nameplate is not helping the US?
I hear Geely just bought Volvo. It's coming soon!
what profits do you think Ford has reinvested? Ford has lost so much money and has such a ridiculous debt load in the last several years that Ford, as well as the other D3s, will be operating on losses carried forward, for years and years to come - and therefore won't have any 'profits' that they can pay taxes on.
And you couldn't be more wrong about the Camry, now the most "American' made vehicle made, PARTS AND LABOR - recently surpassing BTW those bastions of Americana called the pick up truck. Look it up.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/sign-of-the-times-camry-tops-most-american-vehi- cle-list/
Toyota's profits have been used to build $1 billion dollar truck plants in Texas (among other things), for example - not in freaking Mexico, same can be said the other J3s and now even the Koreans. Furthermore, of all those folks that Toyota (or Nissan, or Honda, (or even Hyundai) employ IN THIS COUNTRY how many times do you suppose that their salaries (and taxes) they pay can be spent on inconsequential things like teacher, fire fighters and police officers in those local economies????. Nah, it's far better for all of that to stay in Mexico (or Canada, or China or wherever) because after all Ford, Chevy and Chrysler do , at least, have American sounding names!
So go ahead and do what you can to destroy what is left of our country, buy a Fusion.
Actually those who bought the foreign brands instead of US brands and brands by US companies actually built here through the decades have done a good job of destroying the US carmakers and lots of US jobs.
Each time I note in this area someone whining in the newspaper about lack of jobs, I want to explain to them how the Honda or Toyota they are driving did that through the last two decades so they shouldn't be whining about the difficulties of finding a good paying job.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Yup.
Many people from this region buying the foreign brands didn't see the connection to themselves through the trickledown theory of money going to suppliers in the area whose employees bought things in the area.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Anybody know about current Volvos? I thought they already had a lot of Ford (and even Mazda) parts in them these days. I wonder how much Swedish is left other than the name.
There was an article I read about this that said Geely had high aspirations to make luxury cars even though they currently are best known for cheap cars. I guess they feel this is a way in the door.
What's wrong about that argument is that if the US citizens had continued to buy US makes in the 70's and onward, we would have vastly inferior US makes than we have today. The rest of the world would lead us greatly in reliability, fuel economy, and safety. We would have been driving the equivalent of Ladas and Skodas while the rest of the world moved ahead. That would not have been an alternative that would have done the US any favors.
It sounds like protectionism is being favored here. What would happen if we halt trade - given that we would dry up a big supply of oil?
Let's go a bit further. That means other countries should adopt the same approach. Which means our entertainment industry - consumed all over the world; our software industry - consumed all over the world; our commercial aircraft - bought all over the world; our biotechnology and pharmaceuticals - bought by the entire world - would all end up serving US markets only. Then we would see how many jobs we would be lost, due to protectionism. It goes both ways. We have tons of jobs due to other countries' willingness to buy OUR products.
Oh, so WE should block imports, but keep exporting? Nobody is going to keep buying our goods if we protect against theirs.
It's highly simplistic to think that there is any other option. The world has always continued to change - we should get with the program.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'm sure there is some truth to that. But we do sell American Beef, American crops, American music and movies to Japan. How many American cars are available with left hand drive for Japan? How many small American cars are of high quality for Japan (which is most of their market)? Was a Cavalier really ever going to compete against a Civic? Frankly, we don't have much that is worth them buying in their country, regardless of their protectionism. They built large right-hand drive SUVs for our market. Why didn't we build cars they would actually be interested in? I don't think we really tried very hard. VW, BMW, and Mercedes sell in Japan. Somehow they managed.
Why do US cars have a cheap reputation in Japan? Probably the same reason they've had that reputation here. If we offered products that are substantially more compelling than the local Japanese products, they would find a way to buy them. Apple is selling a lot of iPhones in Japan, outcompeting the local brands.
But the current Corolla is rated at 26/35. Oh so you can beat the EPA ratings? Do you have any evidence that the other cars can't?
I think the domestic auto industry has had their share of mistakes over time, but the "too little progress in the last 1 year/5 years/10 years" argument seems like a bunch of crap to me.
Should you buy American now?
You gotta admit, the Cobalt coupe looks better than most any other econo coupe out there! And in turbo form, every piece of automotive press sang their praises and it usually in tests outscored even Mazda and VW products...although I think only I must have ever seen any of those tests!
Bill
But who are you comparing it too? The CURRENT Corolla gets less than the Cruze, so your 10 years ago comparison isn't as valid, unless your criticism also applies to Toyota who not only failed to improve, but seemingly went backwards with fuel economy.
The Cobalt is an example of little improvement, or should I say a let down from the design of the Cavalier. Plain Jane looking car.
Again, compared to the Corolla, which has been largely the same since 1988, I don't see the criticism as much.
The Civic sedan and sporty looking Civic Coupe look like a good decade or two more modern in design.
Or they look like giant dustbusters that are reminiscent of the early-90s Chevy Lumina APV minivan things.
The EcoBoost Mustangs will be pretty hot.
The next generation of Mustangs won't have EcoBoost - at least for the 2011 engine updates.