Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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Comments

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    With a sticker aversion like that I certainly hope you haven't tried to buy a ladder in the last couple of decades...
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Was I right???...were you involved in a class action and received almost nothing???

    You're in the wrong line of law Marsh- class action where lawyers get millions and clients get a coupon!

    I remember having one of those roll over Explorers. I didn't join any lawsuit, but regardless everyone apparently got a settlement - yes, a $500 coupon off of another rollover Ford Explorer! The Democrat congressmen take care of the bar association like the Republicans cover for the bankers.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    ...has always been driver error. If you are reading this and you managed to rollover one of those 3 mentioned...if you're looking for blame, I recommend a full length mirror at about 7'. And a driving course starting Monday morning.

    Do those 3 roll over easier than other vehicles with a lower centre of gravity? Yup. So?
    Life, and living it, is not about free-rides and lawsuits. Take some friggin' responsibility is what I say.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    "You're in the wrong line of law Marsh- class action where lawyers get millions and clients get a coupon!"

    I guess since I was a normal person before becoming a lawyer, I just don't think that way, even as a lawyer...I still see things the same as when I was a nonlawyer...
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    If you are reading this and you managed to rollover one of those 3 mentioned...if you're looking for blame

    Never rolled it, but it was one of the biggest POS I've ever owned, something was always breaking even though it just drove on suburban streets and Interstates. It was tipsy though even after I put Michelin LTX tires on it, although they improved its ride and handling a little bit. Didn't keep that vehicle but a few years because I got sick of the problems. Quality was definitely not Job #1 and I think it was pretty apparent the vehicle was a rush design job. Unfortunately, I also owned a Windstar! I'll admit Ford is a much better company today though.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    edited February 2011
    FTR, my post was not directed at you, berri...which i feel confident you know.

    While I am sympathetic to the problems you had with Ford (I am presently still exercising a personal boycott against Ford since 1990) those issues are (technically) off topic in relation to the point i was making.

    So while we are off topic a bit... did you have the head gasket issues on your 3.8 l Windstar? And did the recall for a badly corroded rear axle affect you?

    Ford may be in the limelight lately, but MY memory is still intact enough that they aren't about to benefit from any pass from me..
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Didn't keep it long enough for the head gasket. Had the timing chain gasket, the speedometer head, bunch of other miscellaneous crap and then woke up and traded it for a Honda Odyssey. The Windsar did have a comfrortable driver's seat, and that's about it for the positives.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,056
    I dunno about the Samurai or Bronco, but I think the problem with the Explorer was that people were complaining about it riding too rough, so Ford told owners to let some air out of the tires. That probably increased friction, which heated up the tire and made it more likely to blow out. And since the remaining tires didn't have the proper amount of air in them, they were more unstable than they should be.

    So, because of Ford's recommendation to let some air out of the tire, they were probably held partly at fault. And, weren't those Firestone tires fairly defective, too?

    But, I think you're right about driver responsibility. I think the problem today is that blowouts are such a rare occurrence, people just don't know how to react to them anymore.

    I can't even remember the last time I had a blow-out. I think it might've been in the summer of 1995, and had one of the rear tires on my '68 Dart blow out. No big deal, really, just sort of a pop, and then the car started leaning funny, so I pulled over and stopped, without making any sudden moves. I was only doing around 45-50, though.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    But, I think you're right about driver responsibility. I think the problem today is that blowouts are such a rare occurrence, people just don't know how to react to them anymore.

    Thus, Ford puts stability control and roll over protection on all of their SUVs. Not that it can defy physics, but it does work pretty well. I think vehicle stability control is or will be mandated on all passenger vehicles.
  • coontie66coontie66 Member Posts: 110
    You are right on the blowouts. I am nearly 70 and have never had a blowout. ??

    I bought a new 75 Bronco and it came with Bias mud and snow tires and ran just fine. Then a few years later I put radials on it and it just never handled right again. Too much sway and it was top heavy. It was dangerous to drive on curvy roads at high speeds.--55-70mph... Good vehicle otherwise. Put 125000 on it with little or no problems. It just rusted out but boy could it go in the NE Winter snows.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I had a blowout going through a tunnel one time.

    Scared the bejeesus out of me but it scared the person along side me even more. They slammed on their brakes!
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Yes, the Explorer tire issue was a bit of a runaround and attempt to blame Firestone. In fact, didn't they pay for a lot of the recalls?

    The Explorer was advertised as do-it-all utility vehicle. Ads showed it loaded down with people and stuff on the roof and towing an RV. Yet payload on this 'great utility vehicle' was a a very limiting 800 lb or some such low number. And that included tongue weight of a trailer. So you take a tire that has been down pressured for a more compliant ride and all all the extra weight on it and factor in that people don't check their tire pressure but maybe twice a year, and the drywall screw that let the tire leak down to 8 to 12 psi, and it makes for a thankless task that no OEM tire fitment could possibly live up to.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Ford blamed Firestone and Firestone blamed Ford.

    All of this ended a relationship that went back to the days of Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Wikipedia authors can't agree on the issue either, but it makes for an interesting read.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    This has to be great for Bill Ford whose dad is Bill Ford, Sr and mom is Martha Firestone.....

    Of course Bridgestone owns Firestone now so what the heck. Is it e or does Bridgestone sound like what Fred Flintstone would have on his car?

    On blowouts - last one I had was on a bias ply tire - in 1974!
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    The Explorer was advertised as do-it-all utility vehicle. Ads showed it loaded down with people and stuff on the roof and towing an RV. Yet payload on this 'great utility vehicle' was a a very limiting 800 lb or some such low number

    I think you hit on the biggest issue. I also think it was a bit too narrow. The next gen went with a wider track. As for tires, the Firestone's I had weren't all that impressive, but the Goodyear Wranglers they replaced them with rode stiffer and seemed worse in slippery conditions. I finally ponied up myself and bought Michelin LTX which was noticeably better than the other two, but the vehicle still was still tipsy and top heavy in sharp turns and the like.
  • thegaryjamesthegaryjames Member Posts: 17
    The Communist Chinese make junk, as I found out when I bought a used Ford Focus with Communist tires on it ( you can't buy a Focus that is diesel fired
    in the USA because of POLITICS , it gets great miles per gallon ). My wife wanted the car at the dealership just the way it was, I wanted those tires off the car !! I replaced one tire that was not round and would not hold air. The transmission has been rebuilt 3 times already and the Master Tech. and I figured out that it was the contact of the tires to the road surface ( I'm a diesel tech. trained at UTI ), nothing but front end issues with those tires, and
    yes the tires have been balanced and a 4 wheel alignment was done. When the wife has time to give up the car I have to get the 3rd and last Communist
    tire off because I have to air it up twice a week ! She does not want a new tire because it still has good tread that is in spec. of OEM. The Communist Chinese also make tools that the company bought and make us use, but
    they constantly are broken because of the very poor quality. Mechanics and real Americans are getting real tired and unhappy with the junk. Lets
    not forget that the Communist Chinese factories just dump waste where they want ( no OSHA there ) and pollute the world, and are the largest importer of IVORY and promote the extinction of elephants, lets not forget that they make no secret of using child labor where ever possible. It is almost to the point where we are being forced to buy the Communist junk
    because of the very high profits, BUT be careful my friend because the low
    priced products will carry a big price tag latter on down the line. Do the math from a historian point of view, if you can't figure it out right now.
  • thegaryjamesthegaryjames Member Posts: 17
    I've had to drive the Samurai SUV and did not like the ride, some others love them. But the SUV's do roll over and slide off the road if you don't know how to drive them. People think that the style (4x4) and price (excessive) makes everything good and they can drive through anything. Some people die finding out that is not the case. A friend of mine took a sharp corner way too fast in a Ford Explorer and ended up with the SUV upside down and off the road. She had to get medical help and could not get out of the thing. As for Goodyear tires quality going down on my favorite tire of years gone by, I
    don't know what their problem is but most real car and truck people won't buy them.
  • coontie66coontie66 Member Posts: 110
    The Chinese tires are dangerous JUNK. All you have to do is check with folks that pull campers. I have several friends that bought campers with these tires and had to replace them all and under some bad circumstances.

    I see this week that Ford signed some kind of mega contract with a Korean company for tires. Hope they are better than the Chinese crap.
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    I have had two sets of Toyo Open Country AT 235 65 17. The first set came from China, I got 36,00 miles out of them. The second set was from Japan and I got 46,000 miles from them. I had no idea the first set was from China, If I had they would not gone on my 2007 Chrysler Pacifcia Touring AWD.

    This time I was more alert and found Fuzion tires made in Mexico. These are so far much better than the TOTO tires. I agree that products made for our vehicles made in China often are lacking in quality and are undependable.

    How about those engines made for GMC that come from China? There is no way I would buy such a risky deal.

    Buy the way Indonesia imports lots of tires under some funky names, most likely made of gum rubber.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,394
    I I've had excellent luck with Dunlop Kumho, and Pirelli tires. I currently have Pirellis on two cars and the Speed Triple and Dunlops on the other two cars. No complaints whatsoever.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    See what they've done with the headlight on the new Speed Triples? Haven't seen one up close, probably not till late spring, if then.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,394
    See what they've done with the headlight on the new Speed Triples? Haven't seen one up close, probably not till late spring, if then.

    I'm on the fence regarding the new design, but then I have a 1996, which only has one 7" headlamp. I love my bike, but the ergos are a bit aggressive for my 54 year-old bones. If I had the money I think I'd get a new Tiger 800 XC. According to the reviews I've read it compares very favorably to the R 1200 GS.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    I have an ST (Honda).

    And we are similar age. My knees give out, and the ST is relatively roomy.

    That Tiger would give you some room to stretch out. I do like the bug eye look the twin piercers give it.

    And I love that triple sound. Not a lot of dealer exposure up here though.
    Best bargain out there for a middle/light weight sport is the 675 Daytona, IMO. Gobs of mid range torque, good hp and super light and lower insurance rates than the gixxer cbr rr crowd and that sweet little triple. What's not to like? Fairly aggressive ergos though.

    I guess we shouldn't chat about bikes here though...but i just thought i'd throw that out and see what you thought. Things like bug eye beams have become a bit of a trademark for Triumph and I think it will prove to be a mistake to go away from them in the big bore bike.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2011
    Dare I mention Any Motorcycle people?? (Don't worry, it's a short and mostly dormant board here. We're gonna suck you in hook, line and fender. :shades: )
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    You're killin' me here, Steve :surprise:

    But thanks! :)

    I shudda known..will give it a good read after I bring in a bunch of wood before the (another :( ) storm that we are suppose to get, hits.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    We ran some errands in the next town over this morning. My mother-in-law wanted to go shopping with us but bailed after watching the over-hyped headlines on the Weather Channel. Blizzards, high winds, etc.

    We took the FWD minivan with lousy all-seasons and just ran into a couple of flurries. Figures.

    Er, the van was assembled in Ohio, even if it's not an "American" car. And I got some sweats made in Honduras. That's part of the Americas, right?
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Gee, Toto, I guess that means you aren't in Puerto Rico anymore...
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Fred Flintone appears to literally have Millstones on his car. The front and back wheels are large stone rollers.

    image
  • iwant12iwant12 Member Posts: 269
    Is that a "Feetwood?" Sorry, couldn't help myself. It's been a long, long day!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,056
    That's a horrible picture! Nobody's wearing a seatbelt, kids aren't in child seats, and Pebble's in the FRONT SEAT, oh the humanity! And what's up with that pet being allowed to run free? :P
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Well, it is the prehistoric era. They didn't have all those safety regulations and pet ordinances back in 1,000,000 BC!
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    edited February 2011
    But I'm sure they had liberals wanting to give free dinosaur meat to those who were too lazy to work...:):):)...and probably USW (United Stoneworkers Union) trying to pay folks $35/hour plus benefits to swwep the grounds of the quarry...:):)
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    But I'm sure they had liberals wanting to give free dinosaur meat to those who were too lazy to work...:):):)...and probably USW (United Stoneworkers Union) trying to pay folks $35/hour plus benefits to swwep the grounds of the quarry...:):)

    ROTFLMAO!!!! Though, those poor guys probably had to pickup the droppings (emissions) from the dinosaur powered excavator.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited February 2011
    Charts show growing chasm between rich and poor:

    Separate, But Unequal
    image
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,531
    I like how delusions enable the devolution.

    I'm not poor! If you work hard, you'll win! Really!
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Member Posts: 427
    What's cheerful about Hyundai??????? Is there something good about the Asian auto companies kicking our butts??????

    They will prosper with rising gas prices due to small car mileage, and the Detroit guys will bleed..Hope that makes you happy..It's only our country going down the pipe...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    So, it's ok if Montgomery suffers so long as Detroit doesn't?

    Lots of former Southerners are moving from Detroit (and Chicago) back to the South.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Hope that makes you happy..It's only our country going down the pipe...

    I have to wonder if you actually read the article. Hyundai has created thousands of good-paying jobs with benefits in a state where good jobs were never easy to find. Moreover, some of this prosperity is flowing to local suppliers that also employ Americans.

    Why does this bother you? Do you think that Midwesterners are somehow entitled to these jobs? You speak of "our country". Has it occurred to you that Alabamans are just as much citizens of "our country" as Midwesterners are?

    Sorry, but I don't get your attitude.
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Member Posts: 427
    Thanks host!!!!!!

    Detroit is not my worry, the decline of that city began with the riots in the late 1960s and has been downhill every since, so I won't give that subject any more verbage for the website could turn on fire..

    I lived in Grosse Pointe Woods for 35 yrs with short stays in Crystal Lake, Ill, and Kalamazoo, Mi, owned 3 different home in the Pointes and left there in 2002 for Fla..

    Most suppliers to the Asian assembly plants in the USA are Asian owned and operate on a very tight basis cost-wise..The traditional automotive supplier to the Big3 was at a disadvantage on pricing to the Asian car companies back then, however that has probably changed due to the struggling Big3..

    I did get involved with Honda briefy with some hot-forged items, suspension parts and crankshafts, but lost interest because of the nit-picky
    Asian attitude of quality and pricing..I should have known that after 2yrs with a Japanese in Michigan as their VP of Marketing/Sales..

    My last 17 yrs in the auto business was as a self-employed commissioned rep and one takes the high road for the easy sale and the instant commission check, didn't have time to plan for projects five yrs down the road..need time to golf and warm winters in the south..With the cell phone, computer, and fax machine you could be anywhere and respond to any customers concerns..Don't forget, one is not on this earth for a long time, but for a good time..

    No Chryslers in my future, No GM cars made after Govt takeover, so Ford gets my business......2010 Mustang GT is a blast, track Pkg..in the garage and the old S/C 2006 GPGT..

    Nothing from any ASIAN producer....I promise..

    Have a nice day, steve........Maybe I am a little baised, you think????
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    It balances out. I grew up in the Deep South and wound up in the UP. I like to see folks in both areas working.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Amen! Employment should never be a zero-sum game!
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Nothing from any ASIAN producer....I promise..

    Let me get this straight: you don't like it when some poor slob trying to make ends meet spends $16K on a Hyundai Elantra, but it's perfectly OK for Richie Rich to spend $60K on an E-class Mercedes Benz instead of $45K on a loaded Cadillac CTS. Is that right?

    Am I missing something here?
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    "What's cheerful about Hyundai??????? Is there something good about the Asian auto companies kicking our butts??????"

    Simple...they apparently make the type and quality of product that we want to buy...don't forget, the Big 3 squandered a half century of goodwill by selling us junk that wasn't fit for a boat anchor...to buy Big 3 out of blind loyalty is beyond foolish...if you want blind loyalty, how about ignorant UAW workers wanting to make something we want to buy, not loaded with loose screws, missing screws, third-world workmanship, and a militant attidue that makes them think that they entitled to be paid even more for making trash???

    If we had a UAW that cared about the PRODUCT and the CUSTOMER instead of solely furthering the UAW, we could have buried Honda, Toy, and Japan, Inc and Korea, Inc...but they were, and are, just too damn ignorant and stupid to figure that out...if they gave an IQ test to the membership of the UAW, they would probably come in with an average around 60, making either scientific morons or mentally handicapped idiots...and THAT is what showed up for years to make those cars...and you wonder why they lost market share???...it is a miracle that they didn't die around 1990-1995...
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I did get involved with Honda briefy with some hot-forged items, suspension parts and crankshafts, but lost interest because of the nit-picky
    Asian attitude of quality and pricing..


    Heaven forbid someone make cars will quality well proced materials...
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    The idiots at GM, F and C decided to concentrate on trucks.

    Bad Decision. Now they play catch up.

    Hyundai wins when the energy markets get nervous.

    Live with it. :P

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Sometimes the lessons need to be repeated time and time again until it hurts and real change moves.

    It's Hyundai for me...or that nice Optima... :confuse:

    Regards,
    OW
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,394
    Being "nit-picky" about quality is one of the reasons the European and Asian automakers were able to grab such a huge market share. Several years ago I talked to one of the engineers who supervised the installation of much of the vehicle paint systems at BMW Manufacturing's plant in Greer SC. He told me that BMW was extremely meticulous regarding anti-corrosion treatments and paint applications- much more so than any domestic automaker that he had worked with.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    So true, I can't remember the last time I saw a BMW with rust on it. Even the guy down the street from me, his kid drives either a 91 or 92' M3 and the thing doesn't have a speck of cancer on it. Same goes for Audi's, they hold up very well, even in the harsh New England winters and all the chemicals that get thrown down.

    Mercs, for some reason I've seen quite a few of the early 2000's with bubbles popping up around the body side moldings and around the rocker panels. Some E-class and CLK models so bad that I cringe at how a beautiful, stately car that rolled off the showroom floor could look like a clapped out 70's rustbucket. :cry:
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