Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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Comments

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,525
    On many things, it isn't even possible to determine country of origin, which can be an even scarier idea.

    When the origin of an item is difficult to determine, it can be for no other reason than the seller is trying to hide something.

    And they've been able to buy their way into making it legal. Such a huge amount of the corporate sector is deserving of at the very least rotting in prison.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Yes, I agree, providing you can peel enough layers to get to the core persons.
    It would help if some layers on the path would not be so 'agreeable'. Money gets slipped under the table at numerous levels. Sometimes ignorance and rationalization is so prevalent that many likely truly don't realize the harm they are doing when accepting the bribe. But certainly at some point up the ladder (down?) there should be accountability. A prison without A/C, internet/TV sounds about right.

    According to my brother, many do not realize that the Chinese roll their garbage into the products they sell. Apparently they have been doing this for ages.

    Apparently you will not find lead in the toys available in their home market. So they really care enormously for us don't they?
    And yet we trip over each other standing in lines for ...what's it called down there, Black Friday? when there are tons of sale items..
    And this all has not happened over night. :sick:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,525
    Money gets accepted, blades fall. Seems easy to me :shades:

    A prison without heat, hot food, hot water, etc is deserved at the very least. These people are traitors to the very society that lets them get away with their excessive insane compensation.

    I don't know if their domestic market goods are really any better...they have a government so corrupt that it makes anything on this continent look like choirboys. Just look at the poison food scandals there over the past few years.

    All one can really do is vote with their wallet. I try to avoid anything from that place whenever I can, and moreso, I try to buy first world whenever I can.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Likewise. If I can't find a product made here, I'll buy one from a first-world European nation as an alternative.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,056
    I will pay more for the Made in America one unless it looks like a pc of junk.

    A few months ago, I had to replace a window, and went to Hardware City to get some glazing points. Took awhile before anybody there even knew what I was talking about! Anyway, they had two different boxes, same price, about $1.99. One was made in the US, and I think the other was made in China. And interestingly, the ones made in the US looked to be higher quality!

    You'd think that with something simple like a glazing point, there wouldn't be much variation, but even here, they found a way to make it cheaper quality. Yet charge the same price! :confuse:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited February 2011
    I'd also be wary about using Chinese fasteners like bolts and nuts. The metallugy of them is inferior and use of these inferior "counterfeit fasteners" has caused an uproar in the aviation industry where the use of inferior fasteners can seriously compromise safety.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,699
    >The metallugy of them is inferior and use of these inferior "counterfeit fasteners" has caused an uproar in the aviation industry where the use of inferior fasteners can seriously compromise safety.

    I thought the products from the Far East were all superior to US made items: that's what we've been told about their vehicles for decades... :P

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,525
    And don't even get started on drywall...

    Other than being cheap, I can't see why anyone would buy such things not made at home, or in a nation with similar standards. And sometimes, there is no significant savings.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Does the saying "penny-wise and pound-foolish" ring a bell?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,056
    When I was at the Cadillac dealer buying my '00 Park Ave, I walked around the showroom floor, and noticed they had a display of aftermarket rims. Looking a little closer, I saw they were made in China! That really seemed out of place at a GM dealership!
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    I have watched prices and apparent quality content quite closely on Asian imports vs our own for..I'll bet close to 15 years now. The last 10 though have been the most enlightening. You can see that prices are played with and manipulated to find just that perfect perception point of price vs value vs warranty, vs homegrd loyalty (what's the term, my brain has stalled on me here). Many items have been designed to last 'just' the wty period or barely past. Huge retailers like Walmart will honor hte wty, usually no questions asked, IF the time frame is still in effect. But often the replaced product has been made lighter, cheaper, more closely scrutinized and designed to come even closer to lasting just outside the wty period. The whole process is very strategic. I also see that they have been trying to toe the line between price-point and perceived value. They are edging prices up as they have, little-by-little, pulled the wool over many consumer eyes, with the perception that...Made in China..."Honey, we likely won't find a better deal than this, right?"

    We need to be buyer-beware more than ever in the next 10 to 15 years as we try to claw our economic stability back. How's that for optimism??
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,525
    I can't say I'd trust Chinese metallurgy enough to want it being the wheels on my car. No thanks!

    But at GM, who did use a hoary Chinese 3.5 (I think) for a short time, maybe it works.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,525
    One way around it is to buy quality used or vintage products when possible.

    Things like dishes, silverware, utensils, luggage, some appliances...you can do well on the secondary market.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Back in the day, products were often designed with the "worst-case scenario" in mind. That's why you still see 50-60 year old refrigerators. Household plumbing was designed to last 50+ years. Now, you'll be lucky to get 5 years use before it leaks.

    Heck, I still have the kitchen utensils my mother bought in 1964 when she got married. They are still in use at my place to this day. Good cookware is another thing that lasts forever. I bought my wife a set of All-Clad cookware after seeing a documentary showing them manufactured in their Pittsburgh-area factory. All-Clad cookware would probably survive a nuclear war.

    When I was young and naive, I had a cheap set of Taiwanese sockets. I was changing the U-joints on my 1968 Buick Special Deluxe and use a sledgehammer and a socket to knock out the bearing. One whack with the sledgehammer mashed that cheap socket like it was made out of bees' wax. I then got one of my Dad's S.K. Wayne sockets, (made in U.S.A. in the early 1960s) and tried again. The bearing came out with no ill effect on the socket.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,525
    Housing quality standards show a lot of what has happened. My grandmother's boring middle class 1960 ~1800 sq ft rambler would cost a lot to replace today, and even then things were quickly slipping from 30 years before.

    I use old made in USA Fiestaware for my dishes, I have old utensils and copper clad Revere Ware pots from my great grandmother's house, I have a set of made in USA Hartmann luggage I bought on craigslist for the price of one suitcase made god knows where from Costco, so on and so forth. Quality is better and price is lower, it's just not brand new. I can deal with that.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    My wife still has a good Revereware copper-clad pot from her single days. Revereware is now made in...you guessed it! China! How dare they still call it "Revereware" when it's named after a famous American patriot. They should change it to "BenedictArnoldware" to describe the traitorous management who outsourced the manufacturing of this once-respected name to China.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    "BenedictArnoldware"

    that was pretty funny...sorry though if were not really grinning when you typed it :( better to laugh than cry they say..

    Regarding old vs new. Another thing I have noticed regarding all forms of plastics. Plastics made in the last 20 years are more prone to drying out and failure, than plastics of, say, 35 years ago. I attribute it to the intentional more-easily-recyclable nature of the manufacturing.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2011
    My wife still has a good Revereware copper-clad pot from her single days. Revereware is now made in...you guessed it! China!

    Still works as good apparently.

    "The book [Nathan Myhrvold's 2,400-page 'Modernist Cuisine'] puts traditional cooking wisdom under scientific scrutiny, destroying old assumptions and creating new cooking approaches.

    Among the book's revelations: Expensive pots and pans are a waste of money."

    The Game-Changing Cookbook (Wall St. Journal)

    Why pay more for something when a cheaper item works as well? (Which begs the question of why you should buy a $625 cookbook!).
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,525
    edited February 2011
    BenedictArnoldware...I love it :shades:

    A good old American name offshored...I'd be really leery of preparing food on metal from a place known for such flagrant safety issues. Luckily, I don't have to worry, as my pots are probably 50 years old, so I know they were made. Same style as the ones my mother has, that I remember from when I was a kid. When I was in school, my great grandmother finally went into an assisted living home at the age of 99, and we were able to take what we wanted from her place. I didn't take much as I was not really settled, but I did get a lot of kitchen stuff...I know it is all safe and decent quality. And now the greatest generation era is fading fast, it'll sound crass to say it, but a lot of this stuff can be bought for a pittance at estate sales these days. Smart way to buy.
  • wagon08wagon08 Member Posts: 4
    Yep - as a nation , we have become satisfied with lower quality in everything - products , service , entertainment - you name it - it has gotten worse. Until people start to refuse to consume inferior products , it will get worse.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Service is most definitely inferior and you can't blame it on Americans. I was booking a flight to California for my wife on Expedia. They messed something up and I called their customer service and most definitely could tell I was talking to somebody overseas. I was bounced around for half an hour or more before the issue was finally resolved. I could barely understand "Mark" with his thick Indian accent. I'm sure his name was "Mark" (sarcasm). It was probably the first four letters of his 32-letter surname.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,525
    But the cost savings on those hugely paid call center workers can be sent to our beloved executive class, so it is worth it!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited February 2011
    SK Wayne is a term I haven't heard in years! SK still makes great hand tools for a lot less than the top notch stuff. They dropped the "Wayne" part over 40 years ago.

    After spending 20 years in the tool business, I would never trust a Chinese made tool on anything critical. I would never get under a car sitting on Chinese jack stands.

    A lot of the Chinese wrenches look great but the jaws can spread or they can be too brittle.

    I once saw knew a guy who bragged about how he had bought an oxygen sensor socket for half the price of a quality one. He managed to round off his oxy sensor to the point he had to bring it to a shop to have the manifiold removed.

    Still, given the crazy prices of quality U.S. tools I can't blame people for trying to save money.

    I recently bought a 3/8 inch cordless drill from Harbor Freight for something like 18.00. It is a powerful drill too! I know it's a cheap Chinese drill that won't last long but sinceI may use it 3 times a year, I don't care. When it breaks, I'll throw it away.

    If I were a professional whose living depended on my tools being top notch, I wouldn't have bought it.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Even the pros are buying them, since so many tools walk off the job site.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    "SK Wayne is a term I haven't heard in years! SK still makes great hand tools for a lot less than the top notch stuff. They dropped the "Wayne" part over 40 years ago."

    My first set of wrenches, in a plastic roll-up holder, was SK...got them in the early 1970s...while I don't use them a lot, they are still in my toolbox, and they are still my wrench set today...
  • joef5joef5 Member Posts: 1
    You know the Chinese are capable of making very high quality things, we just dont see them, There is a big difference is Chinese exports and what they can have there. But really the bottom line is how the US Importer orders it, the reason we see allot of cheap stuff is because the US company who who imports from there, or the US Company who moved there because of all the tax breaks from the Bush administration, is because they will spec them out for cheaper cost. The USA sold out for profit before quality a while ago for the most part. All the Chinese GM cars, GM actually sells more cars in China then in the USA, but they went in a deal with the Government for ownership and they put out a completely different product than here, chinese designed and made, except for the part where US taxpayer paid for the factories over there. SO many American companies, think, well you can make it cheaper and I will make 20 million, or make it better quality and I will only make 10 million, they go for the 20 million every time. Sad but true.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    edited February 2011
    feel that we regulate them to death here in the US...they have to buy worker's comp insurance, unemployment insurance, health insurance, who knows how many local regulations they must meet along with building codes and other regs, they may have a unionized work force, stupid work restrictions (I only make hammers on Mondays), absentee emploees, drunk employees, have to deal with disabled employees, and anything else you can think of that adds to the cost AND AGGRAVATION of making it here...

    Making it in China is the functional equivalent of drop-shipping it from China to here...no fuss, no muss, no regulations, NO UNIONS, no aggravation from anybody here...

    Did I mention no unions???...that alone may be sufficient reason to leave...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2011
    regulate them to death here in the US

    Yeah, and I sort of miss the soot in the air and the flaming rivers. Nothing like canoeing down a bright KoolAid Lime-Green stream. :D
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited February 2011
    China air pollution:

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    China water pollution:

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  • gambit293gambit293 Member Posts: 406
    Around three years ago, my corporations professors passed out an article about Stride Rite, and how it was trying to do the right thing by keeping its manufacturing in the US. We were talking about corporate responsibility at the time. The article was a few years old.

    A few days later, I happened to be at a mall, and stopped by a Stride Rite. I spot checked around a dozen shoes, and none of them were made in the US. I don't think they were made in China-- maybe India or Indonesia, if I recall. Obviously, their little made-in-the-usa experiment failed pretty quickly.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    I see your point, but you can't have it both ways...if we need foundries to make steel, we may have to pollute, unless there is a clean way to make the steel, or coal, or iron, or whatever...

    So, to keep OUR air clean, we send that stuff overseas...and the loss of 500 million Chinese would make the Chinese govt VERY happy, as they would only have a remaining population of about 750 million...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2011
    Gee, to read the PR blurbs, we can have "clean coal" and "clean oil". Maybe not clean "apples".

    Even with all our regs and unions, US factories still managed to out-produce the Chinese by 40%. (lubbockonline.com).
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,525
    edited February 2011
    So what's the solution? Dumb ourselves down to their standards? Sorry, I don't buy it. No need to take advice from a grand social and environmental criminal (I see their crimes are ignored). Making it in China is the functional equivalent of shooting yourself in the foot, China is not progress, it is a weird mix of a Dickensian socio-economic system and a corrupt cronyistic oligarchy. Opening the place will go down as one of the greatest mistakes in the history of western civilization.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    May some people need a few more reminders:

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    Sewage Geyser: Yangtze River

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    Soil Pollution: Ma’anshan Chemical Industrial District

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    Chemical Waste Water: Yangtze River

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    Seven year-old Chinese laborer
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited February 2011
    It's all about PRICE!

    They don't want Wal Mart to come to their town but when they arrive, they forget about that if they can save 50 cents on a can of dedorant.

    They will buy Chinese brake rotors for their cars because they are 15.00 cheaper. Then they complain when they warp!

    fintail talked about Revere Ware. If you compare an old US made one to one of the newer Chinese made pots there is a MAJOR difference.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    "So what's the solution? Dumb ourselves down to their standards? Sorry, I don't buy it."

    I am asking you the same question. We don't want to pollute our air (a good thought) but we still need to make the steel from dirty foundries...what do you suggest we do, if not farm it out overseas...

    Is it possible to have clean foundries???...I really don't know... :confuse:
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    "They don't want Wal Mart to come to their town but when they arrive, they forget about that if they can save 50 cents on a can of dedorant."

    That is correct...they will fight to keep out WM, and then line up to shop on the day they open...

    But wait...we can criticize them for selling products made in China, but what about US made items that they sell cheaper because of volume buying???...why do you have a problem with folks who want to save 50 cents on the same can of deodorant or bar of soap that they will pay more $$$ at Kroger???...I see folks in Bankruptcy, and every 50 cents they save is important to them, why judge them for saving money because Sam Walton was a shrewder retailer than everybody else???

    A can of Dole pineapple or Del Monte green beans is the same item everywhere...what is wrong with buying it cheaper at Wal-Mart???
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The US steel industry is exceeding the Kyoto Protocol target for reduced greenhouse gas emissions by 240 percent. (link)

    Still a lot of problem plants but they can do ok (my nephew works for a US steel company).
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,525
    edited February 2011
    I'm no expert, but I believe the technology exists for clean foundries - just as it exists for China to operate in a less destructive way - the only stumbling block is that their well-connected-to-the-party businessmen don't want to make the investment, as it will impact their own ill-begotten fortunes. We cry about socialism here and then patronize those who rely on party connections to succeed. Funny!

    The solution is to sanction those who do not wish to operate with at least some slight ideal of responsibility. China certainly does not.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,525
    That's what some of the free marketeer globalization types want to see here - both in environmental and labor standards. Sick.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,525
    Here in Bellevue, I'll never have to worry about dealing with WM crowds - couldn't even get a Costco in, shocked we have a Target. And I aint driving to Lynwood or Renton for the experience.

    The financially ignorant American public is very penny wise and pound foolish. The cheap goods distract the masses from their own darkening future.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    More reminders:

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    I don't remember Philadelphia ever looking this bad, even when we still had heavy industry.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The cheap goods are both the cause and result of their own darkening futures. Unemployed and underemployed people can't afford quality goods.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2011
    Where's the bottom shot? Looks like a fun place to visit (especially since I don't wear contacts anymore).

    Quality goods. Well, I already posted a link saying that Revere Wear doesn't cook any better than a cheap pan. I had a $100 Mont Blanc fountain pen for a couple of decades. It worked pretty good for about two years and then the nib lost its set and it wasn't much fun to use after that. Too much hassle and more expense to send it off. It held its value ok, and I had little trouble selling it for $50, but .99 cent pens work better. You wanna jot something down or try to impress the Joneses?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,525
    edited February 2011
    I think it's Shanghai

    Do you want to risk cooking in something that might leech heaven knows what into your food? And I bet thrift store or estate sale Revereware can be had for less than the worst cheap stuff.

    I prefer gel pens, all seem to be made in Japan. First world nation. In Europe I noticed virtually every pen was made in Germany, France, or Denmark - I didn't see a one made in China.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2011
    K, found another shot of it. Skies are pretty clear; maybe it was 'shopped. :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,525
    And cheap distractions will keep them looking away from the future. It's no coincidence, more like a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited February 2011
    The globalist elite are literally killing the rest of us in their avaricious pursuit of ill-gotten wealth! How can people with a conscience buy goods from an unrepentant socially and environmentally reprobate nation like China?

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    Purple river!

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    45 year-old woman can no longer move her hands and feet due to industrial pollution

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    Deformed infants abandoned by their parents

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    11 year-old child dying of bone cancer
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,525
    More than likely. After the recent Chinese fighter jet video fiasco, who knows what could happen.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,525
    That's just as bad as their leadership supporting such regressive and destructive conditions - that stupid consumers here are the ones creating the demand. Those photos encourage me even more to read labels and vote with my wallet. The conditions harming those abused people exist so idiots here can buy cheap junk.
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