Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

roadburner

If you do see a post-1990 BMW with rust it is almost certainly due to bodywork that didn't meet BMW standards for crash repair.

fintail

There are issues in W210 and C208 cars with rust in harsher climates. Doesn't seem to have impacted other models, so likely some kind of design fault as the cars are similar, or improperly treated metal due to eco-weenie concerns - MB has been bit by environmental idiocy before with decomposing wiring harnesses.

I don't know if the M3 was sold in 91-92...I think it was on hiatus until 95.

I see virtually no pre 1996 Audis on the road at all, they are all gone now.

roadburner

1991 was the last year for the E30 M3.

fintail

Those last cars are pretty rare, or so I would imagine. E30 M3s are so rare to begin with.

I see an E28 M5 around town now and then, now that's cool...I bet it's a beast to keep in good condition though.

anythngbutgm

I don't know if the M3 was sold in 91-92...I think it was on hiatus until 95.

You're right, my bad. It might be newer, I don't know, but it's one of these years



I'll try to be more accurate in the future...

andre1969

I don't see that many older BMW's around these parts (Maryland suburbs of DC). I wonder if it's because a lot of people lease them, and once the lease is up they tend to fall into the hands of people who want to front the image, but can't afford to maintain it, so it falls into disrepair really quickly?

That being said, I can't remember the last time I've seen one with rust, either. Oddly enough, if I see ANY car with rust, chances are it's a Honda or Toyota! But even there, it's usually a 1994-97 Accord, 1992-96 Camry, or something older, so it's not like the cars are rusting on the showroom floor like back in the day.

lemko

One of those "frontin' folks" comes into my neighborhood mechanic's garage with some mechanical malady on her older BMW. My mechanic diagnoses the problem, tells her what's wrong and how much it will cost to properly repair. The woman tells him she can't afford it and asks him to do some makeshift repair just to get it to run. My mechanic refused as he wanted to do the job right or not do it at all. She would just come back complaining he didn't fix it right even though she explicitly asked for a jerry-rigged repair.

fintail

Those 90s Accords can rust pretty severely, even in this mild climate. I saw a pretty rusty 90s Mustang not long ago.

The frontin folks are a big draw down on older high end cars...you get kind of a two tiered survivor rate, pristine cars and beaters.

lemko

The pristine cars are pristine and the beaters are really beat from what I've seen. I've seen an abominable repaint on an old Lexus SC400. It looked as if he painted the car with a broom!

marsha7

"My mechanic refused as he wanted to do the job right or not do it at all. She would just come back complaining he didn't fix it right even though she explicitly asked for a jerry-rigged repair."

That is absolutely true...I respect someone who will NOT do a half-a** job just to please a customer...no good deed goes unpunished...

fintail

It's been a known issue to have neglected MB and BMW out there, I have noticed Lexus among the fray too. I noticed the old Infiniti Q45 was reaching that stage more than 10 years ago, it went downhill quick.

isellhondas

I don't blame the shop either.

Back when I ran a busy shop I learned quickly to never try to do a customer a favor by cutting corners. Without fail, I regretted it later.

Those types of customers never seem to remember that you only cut corners at their request to save them money.

roadburner

I see an E28 M5 around town now and then, now that's cool...I bet it's a beast to keep in good condition though.

I ran an E24 M6 for several years; running costs aren't all that bad unless you blow the engine. At 100K you need to change the timing chain, guides and tensioners. Not a cheap job, but you only have to doit every 100K...

roadburner

That M3 is an E36(1995-1999).

motorcity6

Big price on Bimmers the last time I looked....One would expect impeccable quality for the price...Since Bimmer dealers are located about 60 miles apart, I wouldn't waste my time on the service for one is going to layout the "big dollar" on each visit..Thanks, I will keep my S/C Grand Prix, and Mustang GT for they the cheapo on maintainance and most mechanics understand their simplicity..

I had my 2 Porsches in Germany and they were great rides, covered almost 60k miles between the two cars resulting in a break-even experience money-wise..The initial one was sold in Germany and the 2nd one was sold in the states..Great autobahn cruiser..

anythngbutgm

Ah yes, the legendary E36. I thought it was older than that, my bad.

Thanks!

jimbres

So my hunch is correct: you don't mind it when the well-to-do buy expensive German cars, but it rubs you the wrong way when people of modest means try to save a few bucks by buying inexpensive Asian cars - even when those cars are built here.

Is this a double standard or am I missing something? Or perhaps your recent outburst was just caused by too much caffeine?

marsha7

"Those types of customers never seem to remember that you only cut corners at their request to save them money."

Yes, they will be upset at you because by cutting the corner, you cut somewhere on the quality of what SHOULD have been done...

In their minds what they really wanted was the Cadillac work for a Chevrolet price, and you wouldn;t play that game...neither would I...

So the customer walks out thinking you're a greedy SOB, and they never look at themselves as the problem...

stever

"There are three kinds of people in this country: those who would never buy a domestic car, those would prefer to, and those who don't care whether their car's brand is domiciled in the U.S., Japan, Germany or Mars -- they're simply interested in getting the best choice available.

These days there are lots of great reasons to place yourself in the second or third of these camps. "

The List: 7 Great Reasons to Buy American (Straightline)

lemko

Place me solidly in the second category!

lemko

Culture Clashes at South Philadelphia Railcar Plant

verdi942

I believe a Consumer Reports [!] poll 2 years ago showed 80% of Americans in categories 2 and 3. Count me in 3.

dieselone

I'm somewhere between 2 and 3 with a slight lean towards 2.

roadburner

The only new domestic I would consider owning is the Mustang- either the Boss 302 or the GT with the Brembo Package.

fezo

I see that the article continues the idea that a car is American if it has a US brand name on it and not American if it's built here by a foreign maker - thus, once again, the Fusion.

About the only American jobs I'm supporting with a Fusion are the salesman and dealer. Eh.

dieselone

About the only American jobs I'm supporting with a Fusion are the salesman and dealer. Eh.

I'd think some of the parts are sourced from the US. I'd also think much of the engineering and marketing is supplied from the US too.

fezo

I should look at the domestic content on that.

Last I looked the number 2 vehicle in terms of domestic content was a Camry!

andre1969

I remember awhile back, like 2006 maybe, the Fusion was around 35% domestic content, while I think the Altima was around 65%.

At the time, that really swayed me towards the Altima. But, since the restyle, I've found myself liking the Fusion a lot more...dunno what it's domestic content is these days though, if it's better or worse than it was?

dieselone

I've seen the Fusion listed at 35% and at 55% domestic parts content. I don't know which it is currently.

Ironically, the Fusion is probably Ford's best vehicle in terms of initial quality and dependability. That's probably the first Ford I can remember where Ford really nailed the quality right out of the gate.

dieselone

At the time, that really swayed me towards the Altima. But, since the restyle, I've found myself liking the Fusion a lot more...dunno what it's domestic content is these days though, if it's better or worse than it was?

My brother traded in his '08 Altima for a 2010 Fusion Sport last year. I will say his Fusion is impressive. I liked his Altima too, but his was a 4cyl. So it's hard to compare to a 3.5 powered Fusion. The Fusion sport, is quick, smooth, and quiet. It's a nice car for the money.

fezo

Yeah, there's no getting a round the fact that the Fusion is a really nice car.

andre1969

About a year ago, I rode in my Mom and stepdad's '08 Altima and, I hate to say it, but a bit of the magic wore off. I don't think that it's a bad car, but just that the competition has really come a long way, and keeps on improving.

And back in June of '09, at the Ford show in Carlisle PA, they had some 2010 Fusions that you could test drive. I was pretty impressed.

circlew

Solidly #3 after graduating from your level.

Regards,
OW

roadburner

It will never happen, but I'd love to see a RWD Fusion with the 300 hp V6 and six speed manual from the Mustang; I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

anythngbutgm

Camry is actually 1 in content with the Honda Accord at #2 :shades:

The last fusion was nothing more than a Mazda 6 underneath, what's the story with the current one? Also, I've noticed a couple of first gen Fusions, V6 models with what appears to be some pretty nasty piston slap. Hope that isn't something that crops up as the engines get up in mileage...

anythngbutgm

My sister traded her Altima about a month ago for a Camry SE. Last time I rode in it was in December when it had about almost 100k on it. Now from the passenger seat, I must say that thing was absolutely rock solid and tight as a drum.

When I lived in MA, the road I used to live on was not well paved and full of frost heaves being the dead of winter and this thing soaked up the bumps beautifully and not one little wimper of a creak or groan from it.

Again, I was a passenger, not the driver so it could have felt loose, unstable or crummy in the steering wheel but from my POV it was fantastic. Ironically, she bought the Camry SE because she wanted an even smoother ride and the better fuel economy...

dieselone

The last fusion was nothing more than a Mazda 6 underneath, what's the story with the current one?

Not much difference in that regard. I believe they still share the same platform. Both have used primarily Ford powertrains. Though I believe the 4 cylinder was a mazda design initially. I don't know the current status with the 4cyl. The current Mazda 6 uses Ford's 3.7 v6 and I'm sure it still uses the same 4cyl as the Fusion. Ironically, I think the 6 is built in Michigan.

As for the 3.0 v6 used in the Fusion. That engine has been around for along time, going back to the mid 90's. I've been under the impression it is a fairly stout if not overly refined engine. I've not heard of piston slap issues, but that certainly doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

circlew

Take a look.



Regards,
OW

dieselone

Gm worse than VW, say it ain't so....;)

fezo

Yeah, that 's the irony of things. The Mazda is built in Michigan by UAW members while the Ford is built in Mexico.

cannon3

Who do you believe? I can show you data showing Ford ahead of Toyota/Honda for reliability. Even showing GM doing well. With all the recalls that Toyota has had and continues to have??? I cannot believe they rate high?? this chart seems a little scewed.

cannon3

Those who choose to purchase foreign goods and services are those who cannot think past the now. Buy purchasing foreign goods and services you do nothing to help the U.S. economy or our childrens future job prospects, or maybe even your future job prospects. We think we are out of this recession?? Instead we continue to purchase forgien goods and services, increasing debt to not only ourselves but to other nations. Can Americans really be so dumb? We think this past recession was bad? Keep buying the Kia's, Hyundai's, BMW's and Mercedes... we haven't seen anything yet folks..
And for those with the arguement of my Honda was made in Marysville, Ohio... Take a closer look. The tooling, support, spare parts for the tooling, the management, engineers, technicians. Ask about where they come from? Last I read the Hyundai Sonata was 43% U.S. content. Yet for those who don't think past the commercials of "The Sonata is made in America" campaigns.. Yep.. were dumb...

circlew

You can consider the chart and then your own experience and other rating agencies data.

I rate GM the same place Consumer Reports does. You can take it anyway you want, of course.

The report-card scores are calculated based on a company's predicted-reliability rankings its current models, and the performance of the models in testing by CR's engineers. To get a good grade, a company must have both average or better predicted reliability and good test score

World-Class Reliability Still a Dream at GM

Regards,
OW

circlew

Can GM be so dumb not to have made better cars? We all know the answer. Live with it.

Regards,
OW

stever

I just ran across this Cars.com list today - American-Made Index.

The rank the Honda Accord #2. They "disqualify models with a domestic parts content rating below 75 percent, models built exclusively outside the U.S. or models soon to be discontinued without a U.S.-built successor."

circlew

You can rail against non-American made all you want. The market rules.

Your products win or they loose. Period. Blindly buying American is a choice anyone can make. All power to them. The same to only buying foreign-made goods. A truly free market.

Live with it. :shades: Or remain bitter... :lemon:

Regards,
OW

tlong

And for those with the arguement of my Honda was made in Marysville, Ohio... Take a closer look. The tooling, support, spare parts for the tooling, the management, engineers, technicians. Ask about where they come from?

Your ignorance is showing. Most of the tooling is from the same place GM and Ford's tooling is coming from. Most of the management is US.

Where is your computer made? What about the chips, the power supply, the memory? Why are you even posting here then?

cannon3

Oh, CR the same place that reviews toasters..
Based on my experience all my vehicles over the last 10 years have been manufactured by an American company and have done just fine. One of my cars was a 2000 Accord.. well.. we all know how great these were.. transmission issues anyone?? How can Toyota rate so high with all the recalls over the last 3 years??
Have you ever visited a Honda plant? I have..

cannon3

Ok, you make the arguement of "Where did you computer come from? Your TV? Your dishes? Your furniture, clothing ect. Well, look at our unemployment rate, or the under employed. Add about 5-7% to what the government reports and that is our actual unemployment figure. So its ok to keep buying goods made from overseas? You think this is beneficial for the United States and its future? Buying forgein goods is a short term gain for you. Buying foreign does nothing to benefit the long term financial stability, long term viability of this country. It benefits a few in the short term. If Americans could just THINK about how they spend thier dollars this economy would shift, we could get out of being owned by China, Japan, and other middle eastern countries. By the way, there are plenty of clothing, and other goods still made here in the U.S. You just don't find them at Walmart. Sure you may have to wait a day or two to get them, but search the net they are out there.

tlong

Buying foreign does nothing to benefit the long term financial stability, long term viability of this country.

So using that argument, I guess Boeing shouldn't sell airliners to other countries, right? It certainly doesn't help the U.S. And Apple should quit selling computers, ipods, iphones overseas! I guess the people working in Seattle or Cupertino aren't benefiting from those overseas sales.

Or are you saying that it's OK for US to sell to THEM, but not the other way around? I guess you just want total isolationism? What about the foreign oil you put in your car? I guess we should just drive a bunch less?

Frankly, in today's world your arguments make no sense. It's not the 1950's anymore and won't be ever again. Smell the roses.