Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,936
    I might add, despite hating the Focus' styling (what's up with that fake chrome scoop on the front fender?), when I bought my Cobalt, one could not buy a comparably-equipped Focus for the same price.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,936
    ...and despite the low price, I had an excellent dealer within walking distance of me.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,936
    Come on OW, you're famous for 'apples and oranges'. Who besides you would compare sales of a Cobalt to an Altima? Totally different market segment.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,056
    edited January 2011
    I wonder how the Sentra did in 2010? I would think of that as more of a competitor for the Cobalt and Cruze.

    I looked up the interior volumes at the EPA website, and the Cruze is a lot bigger inside than the Cobalt was, perhaps to the point that it might bear cross-shopping with the likes of the Altima. Here's what I found...

    Cobalt sedan: 86 cubic feet of passenger volume, 14 cubic feet of trunk (the EPA actually calls it a subcompact!)
    Cruze sedan: 94 cubic feet of passenger volume, 16 cubic feet of trunk
    Altima sedan: 101 cubic feet of passenger volume, 15 cubic feet of trunk

    I'm curious to check out the Cruze when I go to the auto show. As long as it's big enough for me to fit comfortably inside, I'd consider it. Size classes these days really seem to blend together. It's not like the old days when you could really feel the difference in size between a Nova, Malibu, and Impala
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    yes the the focus was refreshed but the platform is old, it certainly wasn't a ground up redesign.

    And yes, the altima should be compared to a malibu.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited January 2011
    the sentra seems to have gotten less competitive with each redesign. The sentra se-r from the early 90's was legendary and now the sentra seems lost. I've not read much good about it and i certainly don't like the looks.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,056
    And yes, the altima should be compared to a malibu.

    Oddly enough, the Malibu sedan is only rated at 95 cubic feet of passenger space, 16 cubic feet of trunk. It does seem like a much bigger car than the Cruze, and certainly is longer, so it has more presence. The Malibu doesn't have much shoulder room up front, and is really tight in the rear, so that's probably why it comes up short in interior volume. Shoulder room is listed at 55.9" up front, and 53.9" in back. To my old fashioned way of thinking, a "proper" midsize should have 56-60" of shoulder room. Although today, a modern midsized car with 60" of shoulder room would have paper-thin doors, and wouldn't hold up too well in a T-bone collision!

    I always thought the best looking Focus was the original 2000-2004! It had a fresh, edgy look to it. The 2005-2007 was toned down, more conservative, but still looked decent IMO. But I think they really messed up with the 2008+ Focus.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,056
    It was probably too small for my tastes, but I really liked the style of the ~1990-94 Sentra. It seemed like a more expensive, upscale car than it really was. Since then, they just became more generic, more rental car-ish I guess. The current one doesn't seem like a horrible car, but I just don't find it appealing, and there are better cars out there.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I always thought the best looking Focus was the original 2000-2004! It had a fresh, edgy look to it. The 2005-2007 was toned down, more conservative, but still looked decent IMO. But I think they really messed up with the 2008+ Focus.

    I tend to agree. But I do like how Ford has attempted to keep their vehicles fresh. My dad's Accord was in the shop for a while after being involved in a hit and run accident. He drove a focus while his car was in the shop. He didn't have one good thing to say about it. Granted going from a loaded Accord Ex-l v6 to a base Focus SE would be drastic.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    1990-94 Sentra. It seemed like a more expensive, upscale car than it really was.

    I agree, particularly with the SE-R. The mags drooled over them as did my SCCA autocross buddies back in the late 90's. That car cleaned up in its class back then.

    My brother had an 04 or 05 Sentra Spec V that was fun but crude beast. The current model just completely looses me. I'd certainly look to the Cruze or Civic if I was in the market for a C class car today.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,936
    I remember about six or so years ago, CR showed the Sentra's reliability to be worse than average...below that of a Cavalier. I remember my friend flatly refusing to believe it (he owned neither, but you know how perceptions are hard to change).
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,936
    And yes, the altima should be compared to a malibu.

    Most definitely. And I learned something from that same post...that a Cobalt was built to compete with a Jetta ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,936
    im sure you know who, will be here soon to let us know how many cobalts he has seen this week at the side of the road engulfed in flames

    Best out-loud laugh I've had in days!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    that a Cobalt was built to compete with a Jetta ;)

    LOL, in reality it only sold to fleets and those who wanted a cheap car;)

    Now, the new Jetta makes me scratch my head. Now that VW is making them cheaper and more main stream I've lost my interest. Though I'd still like another TDI.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I remember about six or so years ago, CR showed the Sentra's reliability to be worse than average...below that of a Cavalier. I remember my friend flatly refusing to believe it (he owned neither, perceptions are hard to change).

    My brother has had several Nissan's and all of them have been good (Frontier, Sentra, Maxima, & a Altima). The Max was my favorite, but all were perfectly reliable. Though it seems Nissan has cheapened up the interior bits over time. The 00 era Sentras were kind of crude.

    He finally bought his first domestic ever, a 2010 Fusion Sport. So far he's happy with it.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    Do as you wish, but walking into a restaurant, even just a Subway, with your own drink from elsewhere, is tacky, IMO...

    But you do enjoy the single life, don't you???... ;) :P
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    edited January 2011
    If I owned the shop and I could choose: - selling a customer a sandwich w/ no drink vs not selling the sandwich at all and all I had to do was be ok with them walking in with their own can of pop (that does not have a competitors advertising on it) then this is just such a no-brainer. Why would any store owner turn away entirely innocent and non-harmful business?

    Limme guess, you don't run a successful money-making business? ;) :P
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    The store make many times more profit on the drink than they do the sandwich.

    Hey, if you like like a cheap soda more tahn a girlfriend who am I to judge? :D
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Seems like I already have been :sick:
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited January 2011
    I have run a successful money making business and I have to agree with marsha. It's pretty tacky.

    Speaking of tacky, some poorly run stores will send customers out on their own with new cars to test drive. We have actually had customers stop by our store WITH the demo and ask to drive one of our cars!

    Once when this happened, another salesguy and I went out and swithed the licencef rames ind inserts woth out frames and inserts.

    Another time, we ended up selling that customer a Honda and we had to call the local VW dealer to come pick up their car!
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    To be honest, I didn't think I would get more than maybe a 2 or 3% vote of support here. Time will tell if I was being optimistic.

    I have long time friends. One for over 45 years. 5 for almost 40 years, and a few others for 'only' 30. And I am only in my fifties. I'd say I'm doing something right..

    And have remained friends with all but only 3 of past GF's. The Subway's one, not being one of them.

    Back now to your regularly scheduled channel..
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Just getting to your 50s you have to be doing something right.

    I am just finding out what lies beyond that...
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2011
    Back now to your regularly scheduled channel..

    Let's do that, and let's try to stick somewhat close to the topic in future please.
  • thegaryjamesthegaryjames Member Posts: 17
    Did you know that Ford makes a DIESEL Focus that only sells in Europe I'm told and that it get's around 60 miles per gallon. You can't get it here in the USA because of political reasons. I have a Cobalt and a Focus that are a few years old and as time goes by they both require brake jobs and ball joints that I do for short money ( yes I have advanced knowledge and training from UTI for that and much more). I have no real problem with either vehicle and I also own a Harley and
    a a Ford 3/4 ton PU. I won't buy a Kia or Toyota or Honda or Hyundai because I like to support American companies and their workers. Yes I know that some Toyota's are made here and Dodge trucks are made in Mexico. What's wrong with this picture; Americans are getting unemployed because we are forced
    to buy imports. Even most Cummins Diesel engines are made in COMMUNIST China. Just a thought; if it's an import put it back and try to find American products. Do as you want but the wrong choice can make you the next unemployed American. ( You ) means all of us.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Ford sells plenty of Powerstroke diesels in the US. I'm sure if the demand was there, they'd expand their diesel line for passenger cars. After all, VW and MB and others sell diesel cars, so there's no reason for Ford not to, other than economics.

    Last I looked, I wasn't "forced" to buy anything.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,700
    >I'm sure if the demand was there, they'd expand their diesel line for passenger cars.

    Are the Focus diesels sold in Europe, for example, ready to meet the pollution requirements in the US as they sit?

    I had the impression that the US rules were much higher making diesels not able to be sold here without cumberson modification to meet excessive US requirements. What's the story on small diesels?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    If VW can do it, Ford could too. I think it's economic, not political. The demand isn't there.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I had the impression that the US rules were much higher making diesels not able to be sold here without cumberson modification to meet excessive US requirements. What's the story on small diesels?

    It's my understanding that the EPA has higher restrictions on Nitrogen Oxide emissions and Europe is bit stricter on C02 emissions. Diesels emit more more nitrogen and less Co2 than gas engines.

    I don't know the exact details, but I've read about some ultra lean burn gas engines available in Europe that are not available here due to excessive N0x emissions. The gas engines here in the US run comparatively rich (from what I've read), thus our engines use more fuel in order to reduce Nox.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I think if the demand were there, Ford's lobbyists would be all over DC to tweak the regs to benefit their production.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,700
    edited January 2011
    Doing a little self-help, I found several articles about the Focus being here in 2010. Those were from 2008.

    The emissions requirements are the problem, not meeting them, but the cost is the problem. The VW Jetta diesel is about $3000 more than the current (2008) Focus; the article infers the cost of the Focus would be raised an equivalent amount to meet the emissions in US. That would make it sale proof in US where small diesel cars aren't met with the same eagerness the article says all small cars are met with in Europe.

    Our nephew has a Passat TDI. I suspect if he weren't an engineer type person, he wouldn't be happy with it; but he is.

    GM needs to look at getting its small diesels into this country.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    where small diesel cars aren't met with the same eagerness

    $5 a gallon gas could change that but I think hybrids will sell better here than diesels.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited January 2011
    Our nephew has a Passat TDI. I suspect if he weren't an engineer type person, he wouldn't be happy with it; but he is.

    Why? I used to have a Jetta TDI and loved it. By far the best 4 cylinder car I've had. Good power and great economy (NO it wasn't fast, but the power it had at 2k rpm was beyond any 4cyl I'd ever driven). Granted mine was a 2000, so it had a bit less power and less weight to motivate, but it consistently returned between 40-50mpg.

    Back then I drove 30k+ year, so it was perfect for me.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    I've heard that CARB's (California Air Resources Board's) diesel particulate regulations constitute the biggest obstacle. CARB is apparently the 800-pound gorilla when it comes to this stuff. Not only does that agency have a big say in what can be sold in California, the largest auto market in the U.S., but many other states follow CARB standards instead of Federal regulations.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    $5 a gallon gas could change that but I think hybrids will sell better here than diesels.

    For sure.

    As for the diesel up charge. IIRC, the TDI was about $1,800 more in '00, though I got it all back when I sold it as it had near 40k miles on it and I sold it for 18k in '01 while I paid $21k. A '00 Jetta GLS 4cyl would not have brought in any where near that. I had people contacting me from all over the country when I had it listed on Autotrader. Sold within a week. Would have been a day if the guy who bought it didn't live 300 miles away.

    At the time gas had just spiked to over $2/gal and new TDI's were going for $2k over sticker.

    I'm sure more manufacturers offered diesel cars resale would not spike like it does for TDI VWs every time gas goes up.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    CARB's (California Air Resources Board's)

    I've read that too. IIRC, the TDI I had was not available in California. I don't know about today.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Agreed...the Altima = Malibu. :blush:
  • thegaryjamesthegaryjames Member Posts: 17
    If India puts a 100% IMPORT DUTY on those things ( and they are not the only ones ). Why is it not that the USA can't do the same thing ? Answer is that our government is getting paid off not to ! Remember the [non-permissible content removed] steel producers protested about the high cost to get their products into the USA and our government changed it for them just as our American steel started to produce more. Lets not forget the Canadian steel ! Clintons NAFTA destroyed the USA and started a landslide of unemployment. Back to cars and trucks,
    Detroit diesel bought out Mercedes diesel and came out with a new design of transmission for heavy trucks===that is one plus for Detroit Diesel. And Cummins diesel has a great ISX on the market, to bad a lot of their engines are built in COMMUNIST China. Wait till the Chinese government takes over all there USA factories and these companies loose everything. Can't happen, what about the American refineries for oil in the Arab states that got taken over completely ? And for emissions on diesels, they are far less than gas powered stuff. Diesels reburn their own emissions, if you know thin one about diesels and the white smoke from the stacks on the heavy trucks is not a bad thing but the black smoke tells you that it is long over due for a tune up. Could go on forever on this. Signed a diesel tech. from UTI. Agree with the reply from lemko !!!!
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited January 2011
    Diesels reburn their own emissions

    Yeah, they are so clean you have to pee in them now for the catalyst to work.

    I love diesels, I just wish the EPA would lighten up and let them run like they're suppose to. Particulate traps, and urea injection systems etc. certainly makes them more complicated and less fuel efficient.

    If they reburned all of their emissions they wouldn't be considered so dirty.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    If India puts a 100% IMPORT DUTY on those things ( and they are not the only ones ). Why is it not that the USA can't do the same thing ?

    If India is doing this, then it is hurting its own consumers by making them pay more than they should have to.

    So what you're saying is this: "Indian consumers don't complain when their government mugs them with import duties. Americans should do the same thing - just shut up & take it."

    Import duties are nothing more than sneaky back door taxes that benefit companies that can't compete.

    Here's the story, Gary. Companies that can figure out how to make what I want for a price that I'm willing to pay don't need import duties. Companies that can't do that don't deserve import duties.

    It's that simple.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,936
    Here's the story, Gary. Companies that can figure out how to make what I want for a price that I'm willing to pay don't need import duties. Companies that can't do that don't deserve import duties.

    I'm for putting things on an equal footing, that is all. Same duties here that their countries put on American exports.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    link title

    Ask and you shall recieve...
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I went to the Philadelphia Auto Show this weekend with my wife. The Cruze is a lot nicer than the Cobalt and arguably nicer than any of its foreign and domestic competition. It's so roomy, I'd say it's almost in the Malibu's class as far as interior room. I urge you to check it out.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "America remains by far the No. 1 manufacturing country. It out-produces No. 2 China by more than 40%."

    Despite China, U.S. Factories Maintain Edge (Time)
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Well, one is kind of "forced" to buy something undesirable when there is a need but no other source. I don't like having to buy sneakers or shirts made overseas, but there are little or no alternate sources.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,936
    In your neighborhood? :)

    I see someone posted underneath it, "Not Chevy but Renolt" (sic).

    Damn foreign car. :)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    don't like having to buy sneakers or shirts made overseas

    That Time Magazine link refers to that - we've given up on making most of the low profit items to concentrate on making stuff that commands high margins.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    The Cruze is a lot nicer than the Cobalt and arguably nicer than any of its foreign and domestic competition.

    I agree. I've not driven one, but right now, I think it is one of the most appealing compacts on the market. Personally, I would wait until I could compare it to the '12 Focus. But that's a personal choice as I prefer the more aggressive design of the Focus (just my opinion and preference, not to knock the Cruze).

    That said, the Cruze has a clean conservative look and I like the interior design too. Huge improvement over the Cobalt.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2011
    Let's cut out the "troll" talk please. Everyone is welcome to post on our forums as long as they stick to the topic. And the topic isn't each other.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,936
    The Cruze is definitely nicer than the Cobalt...and more expensive too.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    I'm for putting things on an equal footing, that is all. Same duties here that their countries put on American exports.

    You apparently didn't read the post that you're replying to. I pointed out that import duties & the like are wrong - morally wrong. They punish many for the ostensible benefit of a few. They violate a basic principle of fairness: after I've paid my taxes, I'm entitled to fully benefit from what remains. Tariffs are a sneaky way around this.

    Your response didn't rise above the level of "well, everyone else is doing it, so why can't I?".
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