Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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Comments

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    an engine with cast iron block and head can take some serious heat and survive. Now that most if not all engines at least have aluminum heads, they don't usually survive running overly hot w/o some type of damage.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    This was classic though. It stalled out on the highway on us. We let it sit for a couple minutes, then it restarted and we drove it the last 3 miles to the shop. It was pinging loud and had no ooompf coasting down the shop driveway. Pulled it in, shut it off and walked away. Next morining, it was all set to go w/o missing a beat.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    those 350s were always known to be tough. Probably one of the most durable v8s ever. they just seemed to run and run. It doesn't surprise me that it could survive a severe overheat.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    If it didn't, a long block is probably like $1200 at Pep Boys.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,923
    What was the price of a Legend V6 compared to a Lincoln Town Car, since we're discussing equipment?
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,923
    I hear a lot about the ISS issue on GM's, but somehow I've totally avoided it. I had a 2002 Cavalier (112K miles) and a 2002 Venture (60K) miles, and now have an '05 Uplander (90K miles) and '08 Cobalt XFE (43K miles). No ISS issues on any of them. All bought new.
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  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I hear a lot about the ISS issue on GM's,

    I have no idea what the percentages of cars affected. Obviously that part/design is used in almost everything.

    What surprised me is that it was a problem I experienced in '00 and '01 and it is still an issue on some current vehicles.

    Like I said, it's not a problem that will leave you stranded or pose a safety issue. I just remember it being extremely annoying.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,923
    Hey circle w, any comments on this?

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f127d3d
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  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    My Dad had a cream-colored 1961 Chevrolet Biscayne 2-door sedan with a gray cloth and vinyl interior. His was a bit dressed-up for a Biscayne as it had full-wheel discs and whitewall tires. I thought it was a rather attractive car, though it was as basic as a car could get with its inline six and three-speed column-shifted manual.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Those old 235 sixes were great engines that would last a long time.

    1962 was the last year for them.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,045
    The Caprice Classic Brougham LS was my favorite. For whatever reason, it just stood out to me and i liked it. It was white with tinted windows (Florida), and it just had a presence to it.

    Those were nice cars, and that was probably about the most luxurious Caprice to ever roll off the showroom floor. I thought the squared-off Chrysler-esque C-pillar with the little landau roof was a neat touch too, kinda reminded me of the '79-81 NYer.

    Chevy really started expanding the Caprice line in the later part of the '80's, no doubt to capitalize on the fact that Buick, Olds, and Pontiac had given up their full-sized RWD cars, and Chevy themselves dropped the Impala nameplate. So, suddenly, the Caprice had to fill the role of every RWD car below a Cadillac, where in the past they had four divisions and a variety of models and trim levels to do that.

    And in white with tinted windows, I'm sure it was a really sharp looking car.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,045
    meanwhile, the "big V8" available in the Lincoln Town car, had 160 HP...I seem to remember (hope I ain't wrong on this)

    I think you are wrong...IIRC, the 302 the Town Car was using only had 150 hp! :P It was pretty torquey though, and Ford offered some relatively quick axle ratios, so that car might not have been as much of a slug as the hp suggests.

    Whenever they finally went to the 4.6 OHC V-8, I think hp was up to 190.

    As for pricing, a 1988 Town Car started at $24,373, while a Legend sedan started at $21,805, per http://autos.msn.com. Just to throw another domestic contender into the mix, the 1988 Cadillac Brougham started at $23,846.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I thought the squared-off Chrysler-esque C-pillar with the little landau roof was a neat touch too, kinda reminded me of the '79-81 NYer.

    I agree, it also had a marker light on sides of the landau roof that gave off a upscale ambiance.

    Though the 305/4bbl setup didn't have a ton of power, it had a spunky pep to it followed by a hushed burble that sounded cool yet refined for the day.

    Those were nice cars, and that was probably about the most luxurious Caprice to ever roll off the showroom floor.

    Yeah, when my grandpa showed up at my door with it (I was a in 10th grade I think) I was impressed with it. Certainly not what I had in mind when he told me over the phone that he had bought a new Caprice.

    I got a lot seat time in that car. My grandparents drove up to Indiana for my HS graduation then I drove back with them. I drove it all the way to key west as they treated me to a few weeks of traveling around Fl. In the hot Florida sun, a white car with dark tinted windows was nice. Plus it looked cool. Back then you didn't see a lot of window tinting, particularly among the retirement crowd. He never tinted his car windows again, as it hampered his vision to much at night.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I think Ford generally offered a performance package back then with a more aggressive gear ratio and dual exhaust that usually added 10+ HP, so maybe the 302 had 160hp with that.

    I remember when my dad ordered his '92 Crown Vic which had the 190hp 4.6 v8 that year. The dual exhaust packaged added 20hp upping it to 210, but my dad ordered his when it was first available in '91 and that package wasn't available initially.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    My Grandpop's last car was a two-tone burgundy and maroon 1989 Chevrolet Caprice Classic Brougham LS. It was perhaps the most luxurious car my Grandpop ever owned and a high note to nearly 30 years of buying Chevrolet vehicles exclusively.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,923
    I still think those late '80's Caprices are nice-looking cars, with their big, round wheel openings front and rear, and I also still a good number of nice-looking ones around here in rust country, usually driven by older folks.
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  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    I guess this American Made Hundee won't be outrunning any Buicks!! HAAAAA HAAAAA!

    HUNDEE; the official car of the un and under employed!!!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,045
    I still think those late '80's Caprices are nice-looking cars, with their big, round wheel openings front and rear, and I also still a good number of nice-looking ones around here in rust country, usually driven by older folks.

    Unfortunately, most of them have disappeared from these parts, but I think that's in part because taxi companies would buy them up and run them into the ground. And the local wanna-be thugs liked 'em, but probably didn't care for them the way your typical little old lady would.

    I'm actually surprised at how many '85-90 era FWD C/H bodies I still see running around, especially considering the early ones weren't so hot with regards to reliability. And they run the gamut from lovingly-maintained, showroom-new examples on down to beaters and hoopties that are at death's door but aren't quite ready to ring the bell.

    One 80's GM I wouldn't mind having is an '85-86 Pontiac Parisienne. Preferably without the skirts and vinyl roof. They look especially sharp in black, with Rally 2 wheels. I also thought the '80-84 Electra was a sharp looking car, but probably a bit more troubleprone. GM didn't get the kinks worked out of that THM200R-4 automatic for a couple years, and the computer systems and emissions controls and such were much more strangling. An '83-84 might not be too bad.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    One 80's GM I wouldn't mind having is an '85-86 Pontiac Parisienne. Preferably without the skirts and vinyl roof. They look especially sharp in black, with Rally 2 wheels. I also thought the '80-84 Electra was a sharp looking car, but probably a bit more troubleprone.

    Not the type of cars I prefer, but I certainly can appreciate them. I always liked the Olds 98 Regency too. Once they went FWD, they lost some appeal IMO.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    One would think, with 25 yrs passing since those RWD GM's were built, that they would be great candidates for some sort of resto mod. Whether you went w/ a new GM crate motor or an old 455, you probably won't see too much push back from the states. A new holley FI system and a set of cats on the duals would probably let them pass emissions, if they still need to.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,045
    Whether you went w/ a new GM crate motor or an old 455, you probably won't see too much push back from the states.

    Actually, somebody in one of my Mopar clubs did just that with an early 80's Olds 98...ripped out the engine that was in it (probably a 307, but might've been the dreaded Diesel, or even that tiny 252 V-6!) and stuffed a 455 under the hood. He said it would really move out.

    I also recall seeing some hotrod magazine years ago, where they were putting 500's in the downsized '77+ Cadillacs. The 500, 425, and even 368 are all the same basic block, so they'll fit. In stock form, the 500 really didn't put out much hp than the 425, but it was a LOT torquier. And having 1000 less lb to move certainly helped.

    I don't think people mess with the bigger RWD B-and C-bodies, simply because they're still big cars. But I know the RWD midsized A/G bodies (Malibu, LeMans, Monte Carlo, etc) are pretty popular for resto-modding. A hot 350 is usually the most common replacement, but with some doing, they will take a big-block.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Can't you get an LS7 crate motor? That would liven them up a bit:)
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,923
    Cooter, believe me, I know there have been issues with the '10 Equinox...because Circle W made sure to post about it immediately! Hyundai issues get the 100% gloss over from him.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,923
    I have to admit to liking the looks of the first FWD Olds Ninety-Eights. A friend of mine (an old Studebaker dealer, believe it or not!), maybe five years ago, bought a clean one from an old friend of his. It was champagne color, in and out. Roomy inside, for sure. He drove it about a year or so, then when the trans went south, he left it at the trans shop! It was over twenty years old though.
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  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    My first new car was a black 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic with a gray cloth interior. Mine was something of an oddball as it came with the 4.3 V-6 versus the 305 V-8. It was oddly optioned as it had power door locks but crank windows. I traded it two years later for a new 1989 Cadillac Brougham which I still own.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    upland: "What was the price of a Legend V6 compared to a Lincoln Town Car, since we're discussing equipment?"...I remember this like yesterday...the Legend stickered at $27,500, and a demo next to it was marked down to $24,000...I said to the salesman, if you can sell the demo for $24K, sell me a new one for that price...5 minutes later he came back and said that I just bought my new Legend...so, $24K plus tax, tag and title...I thought it was much money back in 1988 (the 4WS Prelude was $18K) but the car was, in my mind, just the right size, accelerated like nothing I had recently owned, the most ergonomic dashboard just like the Accord and Prelude, and built quite solid...I wouldn't be surprised if the 4 door Accord of 2011 is now the same size as the Legend was back then...I do not know what the Lincoln price was back then because it was not on my radar screen...

    isell: we have to remain friends but disagree...that 4WS, to us, made that car turn on a dime, and with 4 wheel disc brakes, it also stopped on a dime...best car she ever owned or drove, as far as we are concerned...we felt an era of good cars ended when Honda stopped making the Prelude...imagine it now with 250 HP, and xenon headlights...sweeeeeeet!!!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The way I see it, hot-rodders started to use downsized 1978-83 Malibus when they ran out of Novas to modify. The Malibu of that era is approximately the size of a 1968-77 Nova.
  • verdi942verdi942 Member Posts: 304
    I had an '89 Caprice Classic w/302 [= 5l] + 2speed PowerGlide [!]. Terrific car - good looking, seats for 6, huge trunk, 20mpg highway, nice 'n' quiet. Terrible paint job - rust circles all over after just 3 years.....it didn't survive an encounter with a large oak at 90K.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Of course we will remain friends.

    And, I agree. The 4WS Preludes were unique and cool. They just didn't sell.

    That market slowly died. A lot of people hated the looks of the 92-96's and I have to agree. The 97-2001's never sold well and sales declined with every passing year. When you think of it, that entire market segment pretty much dried up.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Ah, I don't think they were making Powerglides in 1989 much less putting them in Caprices. Maybe a TH 200?
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    it has probably been 40 years since a powerglide has been available.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    I actually liked the 92-96, it had kind of a weird modern dashboard which sticks in my mind.

    Another girl I knew in high school would often drive her mother's 92 Si 4WS to school, it was a very high tech car back then.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    A good old friend of mine had a 69 Nova when we were in high school - 307 with a powerglide. It wasn't a cool coupe, but a green on green sedan originally owned by his great-grandfather. It was far from a mint car, it had many issues. I remember that transmission would hold in 1st until about 55 when merging onto the highway, freaked me out. It also had a fun option of horn or headlights, but not both at the same time.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,923
    Lemko, your '87 was a Classic, not just a Caprice, with the V6? That is unusual! I'll stick my neck out and say I didn't really like the LS vinyl roof on the rear-door thing; I liked the regular Brougham roofline, or even the Classic without a vinyl top. Do you remember the '86 (first) Brougham? The interior was a loose-pillow interior right out of the last RWD Olds Delta 88 Royale Brougham! After that, the Brougham interiors were still really nice and could be had in leather (although I'm a cloth guy).

    Back then, I'd have bought a two-door Caprice as I was a bachelor. I believe '87 was the last year of a two-door Caprice.

    How did you like that V6? I remember they advertised it as having the power of a V8.
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  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    They even stuck some of those V-6's in Sedan De Villes!

    What dark days those were for Cadillac! The diesels, the illfated 4-6-8's in 1981 and worst of all, the piece of junk HT 4100's that came out in 1982.

    Cadillac lost a lot of very loyal customers during those miserable years.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,045
    it has probably been 40 years since a powerglide has been available.

    Yeah, I think by 1971, that transmission became almost non-existent. IIRC, that year, it was phased out of the redesigned big cars. Prior to that, it was a mainstay in full-sized Chevy 6-cyl and the 283, 327, and 307 engines...perhaps some of 350's as well? For '70, for some odd reason, Pontiac saw fit to offer a 350 in the Catalina with the Powerglide. In '69, the Catalina's base engine was a 400, and the only auto was the THM400.

    According to Wikipedia, the Powerglide persisted through 1973, and that year was only offered on the Vega and Nova. It was a good transmission, and the HD version is popular among drag racers, but on the smaller, weaker engines, it held them back compared to Ford's automatic (C4?) or the Chrysler Torqueflite.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,923
    The Caddy, and some Buick Electras, had a 4.1 liter 4-barrel six which I believe was inline. The Chevy was a 4.3 liter fuel injected V6. Funny, when you got the V6, it had a big emblem on the side of the car announcing that...when you got the V8, there was nothing on the car to indicate that!
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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,045
    They even stuck some of those V-6's in Sedan De Villes!

    That V-6 in Lemko's Caprice actually wasn't too bad. It was a 4.3/262 CID Chevy unit that debuted in 1985 with TBI and 130 hp. I think it boosted to 140 hp for 1986. Big improvement over the 3.8/229 V-6 it replaced.

    The V-6 that Cadillac used was a Buick 4.1 CID unit that had a 4bbl carburetor, and 125 hp. The Buick V-6 really wasn't that reliable in those days, unless you got the turbo which had a stronger block and better-flowing oil passages, but then the turbo gave you a whole new batch of problems. Well, boring the 3.8 to make a 4.1 made it even worse.

    One dirty little secret though, is that while both the Caddy 249 V-8 and Buick 252 V-6 had 125 hp, the Buick had more torque! 205 ft-lb versus 195 for the Caddy. Dunno if that was enough to make a difference, though. And I wonder which engine was lighter. On one hand, the Caddy engine was aluminum, but on the other, the Buick V-6 was one of the lightest engines around for its size.

    I have a 1985 Consumer Guide that tested a Brougham with the 249 V-8. By that time it was upped to 135 hp. With the 4-speed automatic and a 3.42:1 axle, which is screaming in a car like this, they managed 0-60 in something like 14.8 seconds. And fuel economy was hideous, because the engine had to work it's little [non-permissible content removed] off to move that car.

    When the 307 Olds engine went in for 1986, fuel economy actually improved, because they put a 2.73:1 axle in. They might have still used a quicker axle in a trailering package though. I wouldn't mind finding one of those broughams with the Chevy 350, but I think they're pretty rare on the older, angular style. I believe it was only part of a coach builder's package in 1989-90, although more widely available in 1991-92
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    How did you like that V6? I remember they advertised it as having the power of a V8.

    The 4.3 should have produced more than enough torque to comfortably move a Caprice, it was 3/4 of a 350. Though it certainly lost some smoothness compared to a 5.0/5.7, having 2 cylinders lopped off.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Yes, looks like there are problems but not major failures. Let's do some research.

    Was there a recall? No. :D

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    HMM, I'll save that bashing for later........ :shades:

    For now, here's how Motor Trend puts the numbers: Hope that Regal guy get's to pass that Sonata Turbo when he pulls over to wipe the tears from the Buick guys eyes!

    Power

    Buick Regal GS — 255 horsepower, 295 pound-feet of torque (est)

    Hyundai Sonata 2.0T — 274 horsepower, 269 pound-feet of torque

    Transmission

    Buick Regal GS — 6-speed manual, 6-speed automatic optional

    Hyundai Sonata 2.0T — 6-speed automatic

    Weight

    Buick Regal GS — 3710 pounds (est)

    Hyundai Sonata 2.0T — 3442 pounds

    Base price

    Buick Regal GS — $35,000 (est) :cry:

    Hyundai Sonata 2.0T — $24,865 :shades:

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,923
    Is there ever a recall on faulty transmissions? I've never been aware of one.
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  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Is there ever a recall on faulty transmissions? I've never been aware of one.

    I recall a few. Didn't Honda recall some transmissions back in the early 2000's.

    I believe VW recalled some DSG transmissions last year and GM recalled some Allison transmissions IIRC over a park paw issue.

    Like most recalls, they usually are for safety. Reliability/durability issues seem be be covered by TSB and you hope you're still in warranty when you have the problem.
  • carstrykecarstryke Member Posts: 168
    "Buick Regal GS — 6-speed manual"

    Game, point and match Buick!
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    "....Hope that Regal guy get's to pass that Sonata Turbo when he pulls over to wipe the tears from the Buick guys eyes!"

    Nah, the Regal's top speed is 157, ungoverned. Once the Hundee's turbo launches the head, MR Underpaid will need the Kleenex......Oh yeah, he underpaid. He can't afford Kleenex, he needs the generic brand.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    They even put Powerglides in the mighty 409's but only in the 340 H.P. ones.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Great comment, and even tho it has intoxicating anticipated torque numbers, the $35k is quite the ouch..
    Is it really 35k ? Surely not..
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    OK, become aware...

    GM 276,000

    It happens. I never said Hyundai was perfect....just a better choice for some vehicles at the moment. GM has some good products as well.

    See? I can be non-abrasive to GM...besides, I really do not have to try to bash GM...you know...

    Just don't take it personally... unless you are part of the team, of course. ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    With 250 lbs extra?? Serious?? HA!

    Regards,
    OW
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    The Buick was engineered in a place with Autobahns...it could indeed be competent at triple digit speeds.
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