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Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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Comments

  • iwant12iwant12 Posts: 269
    The problem today is, what will our economy look like in the decades ahead?

    "Who will be our master(s)?" is what I thought as I was reading this.
  • fezofezo Manahawkin, NJPosts: 10,376
    Bob -

    A little more on Peking becoming Beijing.

    I'm kid of surprised I haven't found a better site but I'm feeling lousy today so maybe I'm not trying so hard.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,096
    Well, I don't know if selling stocks and bonds is the same as selling physical and intellectual capital - but then again, the claim was made by a lawyer, so it has to be right :shades:

    There's no room for a middle class in a globalized corporatized world.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,703
    Well, thanks...who'd a thunk that someone would write a small discourse, just waiting for an innocent sap like me to ask the question...and...voila...the internet, and fezo, supply me with the answer...

    And I did not stop to realize that Shanghai was still Shanghai...
  • cannon3cannon3 Posts: 296
    And yet another reason to demand American goods and services. On tonight national news (CBS) there was a excerpt about President Obama in South Korea. How he wants to level the playing field on trade with South Korea. South Korea shipped over 735,000 vehicles here to the U.S. last year. All the American car companies combined shipped just over 6,000 vehicles to South Korea!!!!!! This because of all the restrictions/taxes/tariffs and you name it that make U.S. vehicles too expensive for the general public. NOT because the South Korean people don't want them either. This information needs to get out to the masses here in the U.S. Educate people on what they are buying and from whom. :mad:
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    South Korea shipped over 735,000 vehicles here to the U.S. last year.

    Does this number include Korean brands assembled in U.S. plants?

    This because of all the restrictions/taxes/tariffs and you name it that make U.S. vehicles too expensive for the general public. NOT because the South Korean people don't want them either.

    How do you know this? Can you furnish links?
  • Saginaw Steering Gear as it was known back in the old days when it was 25% of my plant's business..1973-1980..Great customer for compression springs, rings, small stampings, and wireforms..

    I agree that the Chinese will strip the plants to the utilize the assembly process only, and relocate all manufacturing operations..Look at Flint, AC & Buick are gone, couple GM stamping plants left and maybe a truck assy operation. Michigan has been gutted and the next slice is coming..

    The Chinese have most of our greenbacks so I guess it's their move with our $$$$.
    Just keep the printing press running, and watch the country go down the tube. I will avoid any political talk as I have been chastised for my past opinions..

    Spent from 1968-2002 in the auto supplier world employed by small metal-processing operations in positions of VP of Sales/Marketing, VP of Operations, and my favorite final title was "self-employed commissioned manufacturers rep" which was the last 13 yrs..I called it the "gravy train" time, selling hot and cold forgings along with shell-cast steel casting to the auto and military..Did serve time with a transplanted Japanese manufacturer as VP Sales/marketing, no fun with them, only lasted a couple years, kinda cheap and boring to put up with their work ethics..

    Yep, having gone through ownership of 53 cars to date, all Big3 except the 2 Porsches, if you want to buy an Asian nameplate, please step up to the plate and do so, make yourself happy and proud, after all they are assembled here in new assembly plants made possible with your Tax $$$$$..My favorite cheap end foreign nameplate is a Camry SE V-6, but my love affair with my supercharged V-6 Pontiac and my Mustang GT will probably last until my D-Day.

    The USA auto industry was a fun place for many years cranking out great cars, along with some real loony ones, however I hope you young and middle aged enjoy the "green movement" and the shear excitement of hybrids and electric-powered 40 mile range items called "saving the Planet." You will have your DroidXs or Iphone4 to get you through the day without actually seeing anyone in person..Doesn't sound too exciting??????????????? America had a great run and I enjoyed the excesses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • cannon3cannon3 Posts: 296
    This figure comes from CBS news. 735,000 vehicles shipped from South Korea to the United States. American car companies sold only just over 6,000 vehicles due to the high costs the Korean government slaps on them. If you type in South Korean trade imbalance, or South Korean trade with United States Plenty of information comes up on Google. As far as trying to justify the transplants, this is only going to last so long. Americans are finally getting smarter in learning that most of the tooling, support, spare parts, technical knowledge comes from the country of origin. Even the Sonata that is touted as "American" is only 43% U.S. content. We are dumb as a nation for allowing this to happen and continue to happen to us. For me, I will not ever buy a Korean vehicle until they allow FAIR trade.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    Hmmm, South Korea population = 46 million.

    USA population = 310 million.

    %of Korean cars spread across USA population = .2%
    % of American cars spread across South Korean population = .1%

    Get real. Just double US auto exports to 12,000 and get over it. :cry:

    Regards,
    OW
  • Somebody from our current administration is spending 10 days traveling thru Asia, hyping the upcoming GM stock offering, just a side benefit of our system to help the UAW coffers, and placate the Chinese financial guys..China will own GM very soon, and I think the Italians are in charge at Chrysler..Ford is going to be the sole survivor for the time being, however, politically they will get waylaid somewhere to make the threesome all foreign-owned..

    We are very familiar with the term "real estate foreclosure" for the it is talked about daily and it's devastating effects on the American lifestyle..high unemployment,and blah,blah, etc...

    How about the "foreclosure of America" and stop worrying about foreign cars because they will all be foreign labeled..Didn't Emmelt, CEO of GE last week commit his corporation to buying 15,000 to 20,000 Chevy Volts, that's right he is traveling thru Asia on the coattails of our leader..Wow, must be a great car!!!! that nobody wants, however our GE CEO is repaying his debt for the "bailout money" that GE needed back in 2009..Great timing in light of the stock offering...The Volt is a huge taxpayer financed "dud", and the Cruze will be the shining star, 42mpgs on the internal combustion engine,,,,no plugin, 1 battery, not too green, and I believe it is being made at the Lordstown, Ohio plt, which if memory serves me right was the birthplace of the "Vega." I supplied the inside "hood release assy" for this beauty, and another GM star called "Chevelle." Both GM standouts???? Ha-Ha

    Our country is operating under a "Shadow." and you won't know anything until it happens. Gee, Hope I am wrong!!!!!

    To the UAW, they owe their popularity to our elected officials and if one operated in Michigan during the "glory days" close to Flint and Saginaw, one did fall under the eye of the UAW.. I ran a plt 15 miles from Flint, yep it was organized by the UAW , 2yrs before I arrived, however we ran the operation, they didn't....THis location was shutdown down during the mid-80s, business was transferred to a non-union plt in N.Illinois, along with our UAW plt in Milwaukee..Our non-union plt paid higher wages than the organized ones..conclusion: the Big3 gave away the store and the right to operate their plants..very simple...Our Milwaukee plt took a strike in the early 70's and 90 days later the UAW was de-certified..This 3 plant operation was owned by a family which later sold on a leveraged buy-out to a Wall Street..

    The American auto industry is all but dead, and when the oil prices rise this winter to $4+++/gal, it will decimate what's left..GM has Chevrolet with a small ecomony car, the rest of the divisions are plagued with 2-ton cars/trucks/suvs which guzzle gas..Buick has a 2 ton car powered by a wenny-4banger which is rated @32 hwy, going downhill..

    The Asians have lots of teeny-weeny cars in production that get 35+++and warranted for a lifetime..Funny names and boxy shapes, dirt cheap, and assembled anywhere on the globe for your enjoyment..

    Sorry most of you missed the great automotive days of the past, for it was a 'blast." Careful crossing the street, those "silent cars" powered by fossil-fuel generated electricity are "stealthy."
  • cannon3cannon3 Posts: 296
    circlew, first of all I will not "get over it". Are you really that blind to see past the now? Can you really not envision your future? your childrens future? This is what is wrong with Americans these days. We are unable to see longterm in our choices. We want everything now and for a cheap price. Not seeing the true price of our choices. We are all connected in this economy, and when we realize this is when real change will happen.

    Motorcity - I am not one for giving up myself. I believe in America, its manufacturing base, engineers, technical know how. The U.S. auto industry is not dead. GM is rebuilding itself. I guess you missed the news on their last profits/income. Ford is also digging itself out of debt and putting out some great product. We must stop this trade imbalance that threatens this very countries existence. Demand made in the U.S. products and services. If you can think past the now, you will understand.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    Good for you Cannon!!!

    We can talk all we want about the mismanagement at the Big 3, restrictive UAW work rules (which, BTW management agreed to), poor quality, etc., but the fact remains that America CAN'T survive making (printing) money or making money off of money, but from making money off of goods and services. I'm not saying that healthy economies elsewhere are bad for the US, they clearly are a GOOD thing, but the USA CAN'T be the leading exporter of jobs to other countries.
  • greg128greg128 Posts: 421
    edited November 2010
    I agree 100%

    In the words of Pogo: "We have met the enemy..it is us!"

    Our government must take measures that are in the interest of
    this country and it's people. I think the time is right for tariffs
    on imported products, The Asian and German transplants would
    only be taxed on parts and assemblies that are imported, including
    from Mexico and Canada. Sure other countries would retaliate with
    their own tariffs, but when you realize that the trade imbalance with
    China alone this year will be over 1/4 of a trillion dollars, how
    can that hurt us?

    Sure prices will go up but at least the money would stay here
    employing our own people. While we're at it lets develop our own
    energy resources, which are plentiful. A tariff on foreign oil would not
    be popular but if we are allowed, we would find our own supplies in
    a hurry.

    Oh, and the money from the tariffs could be used to lower the budget
    deficit - and without raising taxes. And yes, the tariffs would be like a
    tax...but a voluntary tax you only pay to the government if and when
    you buy imports.
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    I think the time is right for tariffs on imported products,

    Tariffs hurt more than they help. They're a sneaky backdoor sales tax, & like any sales tax, they hurt lower income families the most. Think about it: a family making $250K per year doesn't spend 5 times as much as a family making $50K per year. Tariffs will cost the poorer family a proportionately larger share of its income.

    Moreover, tariffs help a few industries at the expense of others. If I'm paying more for my car, I have less money to spend on other things made by Americans. Sure, I'd like to see the Michigan auto worker keep his job, but I don't live in Michigan. I'd rather spend that extra money on things made by workers in my own state - even if that costs the Michigan worker his job. I want to support local industries - not workers 5 states away. Tariffs take that choice away from me.

    My position on tariffs is simple: companies that make what I want at a price that I'm willing to pay don't need tariff protection. Companies that can't do this don't deserve tariff protection.
  • cannon3cannon3 Posts: 296
    What will bring jobs/companies back to the U.S.? What is your feeling on this?
    I am also not in favor of unions. Having experienced the entitlement attitude unions foster, not for me. I want to be paid on what I am worth, what I am able to contribute to an organization. If company A is not paying me for what I think I am worth, I find a company that will. This is the beauty of America, find another job. UAW is a dying organization. Making cars/trucks is no longer a highly skilled job. With automation and new production technologies/techniques labor is labor. This is what is called manufacturing evolution. I am all for free trade and FAIR trade. I am willing to go head to head in competition IF the competition is FAIR. I cannot compete with Hong Lo in China that has the same skills I do, yet is willing to work for $1 an hour with no health/dental/vision or retirement benefits. This is where tariffs and taxes of imports evens the playing field.
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    This is where tariffs and taxes of imports evens the playing field.

    Sorry, but whenever I see the phrase "evens the playing field", I reach for my wallet because I know that someone wants to help himself to my money without working for it.

    Look at Ford, which employs tens of thousands of American workers & turns a significant profit for its shareholders without tariff protection. If, as some want us to believe, the problem is unfair foreign competition & the only solution is tariffs, how do you explain Ford's success? That tells me that the real problem isn't foreign competition - it's incompetent management at the other domestic companies. If that's true, & I think it is, then tariffs will only only make things worse by rewarding incompetence.

    Should that be the path to success in business in this country? I don't think so.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    ":..... If, as some want us to believe, the problem is unfair foreign competition & the only solution is tariffs, how do you explain Ford's success?"

    As good as Ford is doing, don't you think they would like to sell more cars in a country like Japan or S.Korea, where tariffs and other gov't red tape keep import sales down??

    How is the USA supposed to combat issues of disparity in tariffs between what we charge and they charge?
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    As good as Ford is doing, don't you think they would like to sell more cars in a country like Japan or S.Korea, where tariffs and other gov't red tape keep import sales down??

    The D3 have never shown any real interest in the Japanese market. If they were serious about selling to Japanese drivers, they'd have to spend money to build cars with the driver's controls on the right side, since the Japanese drive on the left side of the road. But the U.S. car makers made it clear more than 30 years ago that they didn't want to make this investment.

    The Koreans could certainly do more to open their market, but that doesn't convince me that I should be forced to pay tariffs on Korean goods. Just because Korean consumers allow their government to mug them with higher prices doesn't require me to roll over & let my government pick my pocket in retaliation. The real victims of tariffs are the citizens of the country that's charging the tariffs. To save a few thousand jobs, millions are forced to pay higher prices. Sorry, but I don't feel like being a victim. I pay enough in taxes as it is.

    Anyway, the Fed's policies are driving down the value of the dollar, which has the same effect on import prices as a tariff would. Thanks to the cheap dollar, virtually all imports - German cars, French wine, Canadian oil, etc. - will cost American buyers more.
  • keystonecarfankeystonecarfan Posts: 181
    edited November 2010
    I'm sure that Ford would like to sell more cars in Japan and South Korea. I highly doubt, however, that it would ever consider doing so by shipping products made in North America to those countries. Most North American Fords are simply too big and cumbersome for most drivers in those countries. Not many people want to thread an F-150 through Tokyo traffic, even if it does feature right-hand drive.

    The cars most likely to succeed in Japan or South Korea would be the Fiesta and the Mustang. The first is assembled in Mexico, and the second would be a niche vehicle at best. I doubt that either the Japanese or the South Koreans are chomping at the bit to drive a Cobalt or current-generation North American Ford Focus.

    The simple fact is that GM and Ford have, since the 1930s, followed a strategy of either buying local companies (Holden, Vauxhall, Opel, etc.) or setting up subsidiaries (Ford of Europe) to meet the needs of foreign markets. Regardless of what type of trade agreement President Obama negotiates with other countries, neither company is likely to deviate from that strategy in the future.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    ".....If they were serious about selling to Japanese drivers, they'd have to spend money to build cars with the driver's controls on the right side, since the Japanese drive on the left side of the road."

    Sure, but for decades, GM and Ford have built right hand drive cars. All they would have had to do is import them from Austrailia. Once they had a foothold, then there would be a market to justify a RHD Corvette, GTO, 442, or any of the other popular cars from the '50's or 60's
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,192
    The D3 have never shown any real interest in the Japanese market. If they were serious about selling to Japanese drivers, they'd have to spend money to build cars with the driver's controls on the right side, since the Japanese drive on the left side of the road. But the U.S. car makers made it clear more than 30 years ago that they didn't want to make this investment.

    Exactly. And when you look at the costs of redesign, and the maturity of the Japanese market, and the fact that they typically drive very small vehicles (an area where the US makers have not been competitive, historically), it is not the Japanese fault that the D3 don't sell a lot there.

    If I'm a D3 executive, I go for at a market with much more growth potential - China. Which is exactly what GM is doing, and apparently doing well at.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,077
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  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    Amen, brother! There's a high cost to those "low prices!" America, stop "bargain-shopping" yourself out of a job and a future!
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    Slogans of former industrial cities:

    TRENTON MAKES, THE WORLD TAKES
    WHAT CHESTER MAKES MAKES CHESTER

    Well, Trenton makes nearly nothing nowadays because the world took its jobs.
    Nothing is made in Chester these days, so what does that make Chester?
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    edited November 2010
    Yeah, and Hong Lo doesn't have OSHA or the EPA to protect him either. Hong Lo gets a princely $40 for the hand he lost in a 70 year-old machine brought over from the U.S. or Europe from which the safeguards were removed to speed up production. Han Lo's body will also be like a Superfund site due to all the toxic chemicals and heavy metals to which it was exposed because his corporate overlords could care less about the effect a filthy environment has on him and his brethren.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,703
    But isn't that a problem for his country, not ours???...sure, if you personally want to boycott products from Nation X because they don't protect their workers, then do so...people all over the world probably lose body parts, and have lost them for decades, due to machines that are always dangerous...are we really any more civilized because we pay a worker $50K for losing a hand???

    Is it always the company's fault???...how about drunk UAW workers who endanger themselves and others by working drunk, yet the union grievance process keeps them on the assembly line for two years before they can be fired???...why don't you boycott US union made products because they KEEP workers on the line in a condition that ruins the product, can ruin the worker, and possibly some other innocent worker next to them???
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    I've worked in union shops and they were infinitely safer than non-union shops. I never experienced any danger from an intoxicated or drugged co-worker. The machinery was in top-notch condition and the physical environment was clean.

    The non-union shops were filled with the drunks, druggies, and ex-cons because they would work cheap and nobody else wanted them. I swore most of them only showed up at work because they promised them a cheap bottle of rotgut whiskey at the end of the shift. A lot of these guys looked like they were scraped off a subway platform. The working conditions were filthy and the equipment was outdated and faulty. I got out of these places the second an opening was available at a respectable employer.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,096
    I'm in Germany right now, been here for several days and will be here for a while longer...and I am shocked at how little Chinese made crap there is here. You'd love it...there's even a group of big Yank-tank fetishists.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    Funny you should mention that. I was at the Cadillac-LaSalle Club's Grand National meet in Cherry Hill, NJ two years ago and I met two guys from Germany that were huge Cadillac fans. Nice to see there's a country that still values substance and quality over cheapness. I was thinking of buying this nice toy truck/bulldozer set for my little nephew for Xmas. It's made by Bruder, a German company.

    image

    I remember when Tonka toys were made with this kind of quality, but you'd have to go back almost 40 years ago when I was a kid. Even Tonka is now low-grade cheap Chinese-manufactured garbage! Sad.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,096
    Late model Caddys are very rare here - most I see are late 90s Seville/Eldo or strangely enough, SRX. But they do exist. Of course, a 50s or 60s model would be a hit...it's funny how people who resent model America love the style of the past...then again...maybe they are on to something...

    Some toy companies have been moved, but many remain. I bought a Steiff stuffed animal for a present...still made in Germany. But what I noticed were things like restaurant cutlery and tableware, toothbrushes and beauty products, small appliances...even the flowerpot on my desk...all made in Germany. It's not that way in the US.
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