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Comments
I don't run my own business, but I'm of humble origins and have done very well for myself, and my wife has a good job too. I see it frequently--people who seem to resent us for that one and only thing. I figure that's their problem, not ours. You have to take risks to really succeed financially. For instance, I left mainstream corporate America to work in a 'fringe' business and it has paid off.
But the fringes at Chick-Fil-A--I ate their today as a matter of fact! Absolutely any other fried chicken sandwich I get anyplace else tastes like cardboard in comparison IMO.
And no working Sundays!
The one that's a town over from us sure doesn't look like its business has hurt from the 'scandal' last year.
I know, for the ones around my home, that one usually sees college-age kids ad retired-age folks behind the counter, although the management types seem to be in between those ages.
Regarding the "incident" last year, I suspect sales were positively impacted, if anything. I know the company reported increased sales in the short-term.
Having a desirable product offering helps, too.
I've never worked in a fast food establishment but a few folks I know that have say that after about a week, they get sick of eating their own food.
Because it's a franchise, very often the "management types" are also the "owner types."
I guess it has little to do with cars though - and I doubt any of the transplants who benefit from subsidies would dare declare that they are doing it all for themselves.
This was way back in the 80s, in high school, but this one particular time the boss asked me to refill the fryer.
I kept looking for oil. Back then, though, we used lard. I mean a BUCKET of lard, the kind you put on gloves and rip out chunks to throw in the fryer, which melts and darkens. So, so nasty.
I quit less than a week later and probably spent a few years without eating fast food.
Of course now they fry in veggie oil.
If my kids wanted to work I would steer them away from jobs like that, try to do something more related to the job you want later, even if it's retail.
I suspect many of those are exactly as you described. I've certainly been there before.
There is little reward without risk, else everyone would be successful. I've been involved in several start-ups, and guaranteeing loans personally is certainly part of it. And you're correct, betting your house and future on a business isn't something most employees consider when they judge company owners (I'm speaking of relatively small companies here, not like GE or IBM) after the business is up and running successfully, since it isn't within their realm of experience. Many of them can't see beyond the fact the owner(s) seem to be enjoying a better lifestyle than them.
Still, I've never been in any business venture that didn't highly depend on others that expended efforts before we ever showed up. No one has.
If anyone wants to see what a country really looks like without infrastructure, where folks really do have to "build it themselves" just take a look at places like Afghanistan or half the countries in Africa.
What does this mean? Seems that most of these people who are still working are paying a lot higher taxes than any of the newcomers.
I wouldn't have been able to attend school without such infrastructure and similar loans, and I do not balk in paying it forward.
Yes, but certainly more of the newer generation than not are entitled and expect it easy. I know few of my kids college-age friends work as hard as I or my friends did during the same points in their lives. And they have more material goods as well.
It appears to be a natural lifecycle - we see it in companies and we see it in societies. Things are poor, people are motivated and work hard and build things up over time.
Once affluent, people get lazy and newer generations forget or don't know what it took to get to this point. The work ethic and motivation goes down. Corruption and finding ways to "game" the system (high paid execs, financial wheeler dealers, greedy unions) occurs. The decay begins and spreads. The fall may be dramatic or gradual depending upon circumstances.
We have seen this in IBM, Microsoft, and perhaps Apple is cresting right now. We've also seen this in Rome, Spain, England, Japan, and now the United States.
People are upset that the D3 are no longer employing as many people. Well the greed occurred on all sides for the "American" makes - complacency and greed on both the execs and the unions' part. Hungrier competitors came in and ate their lunch. Now they fight for survival. Yet transplants make more cars than ever here.
My only complaint with this paragraph is that so many people won't even give the D3 a chance. Things aren't the same now.
I live here; I want things rooted here to do better than things from elsewhere. Pretty simple I think.
UAW has been trying to year to get, for example, Nissan's plants to go union. They've failed many times.
True. Of course, they're also making far more than the newcomers. And, they also get the benefits of lower capital gains tax rates than the hourly worker.
I know several successful folks that are always whining about what they pay in $, never considering what they pay in % of income.
Personally, I have no issue with a fellow who pays millions in taxes while he's also making tens of millions in income. Seems fair. After all, he should pay more, because he has more to lose. The entire insurance industry runs on that concept.
But, I'm not responding to disagree as much as I am to agree. I think you are correct in your evaluation of society, at least, in general.
What's the old saying..."Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in 3 generations"?
I've seen that countless times in my life.
I think most everyone missed the point. Chick-Fil-A is paying more than the other fast food places. McDs you are lucky to get $8.50 and many small mom and pop places pay minimum wage or less. Entry level jobs have never been considered a living wage. They are to help get you through school. If you are a college grad working an entry level job you probably picked the wrong major. The Discount Tire store I sometimes use, only hires college students. He pays $9-$10 for changing tires etc. He also schedules around their classes. Working 2 jobs is not that uncommon. It was not that uncommon in the 1950s and 60s when my step dad worked two jobs to support the family. I also started paying room and board at 12 years of age.
I also liked Busiris point about mentors. My HS radio & Electronics teacher encouraged me to get a job with the phone company. You will have a job for life. Of course that is not the case now. But it served me well over my 46 year career.
http://www.cadillac.com/pricing-offers/current-offers.extapp.html?x-zipcode=9210- 1
I do think in this country it is a shame that nearly half of Americans don't pay one red cent in income tax. Was that the original plan? I don't think so. Admittedly, I've taken risks and there has been some luck involved. More luck than personal risk? Not hardly. I know that can change at any time though.
Read it slowly next time, I am typing as slow as I can. They are also paying less tax than those who came before - and are screaming like petulant children about it. 30 years of coddling now, insane gifts given during the last decade, still no trickle down or massive creation. Why?
Your kid's friends probably come from more of the great group of coddling hoverparents, and are being dumped into a system that is grossly less affordable than the one when you were their age. Think about it. Two sides to the coin. Apples don't fall far from trees, and frankly, it is harder to get going now than it was 35 years ago. Kids out there today are working just as much and even more than you did, even if you don't know them.
Is the US in devolution because of being "lazy" or because real live class warfare has been declared - but not in the direction that the "we built it" crowd wants you to believe?
I can't think of many businesses that could exist without infrastructure from civil projects to education, that some want to use to aid their bottom line, but not pay forward - unlike those who came before paid forward for them. They didn't do it alone, they couldn't do it alone, and they wouldn't be able to do it alone if they tried right now.
I'd bet the unions' flexibility handicap is a bigger issue than the costs, which I believe are now fairly close.
"You want me to do WHAT? That's not my job and not in our Work Rules" :mad:
First of all, infrastructure is much more than just roads.
It's communications, fire and police protection, the power grid, defense, the list goes on and on. And, yes, roads and these other things ARE bones of contention. In SC, we have (I believe) the 3rd lowest gas tax in the nation, yet there is a huge public outcry whenever a gas tax increase comes up...but, there certainly isn't any shortage of those complaining about bad roads here, especially from the high $$$ car owners.
There's a reason you won't find any significant manufacturing plants in the desert. It's not because land is overpriced. As was pointed out earlier, there wouldn't be any VW plant in TN without roads and rail access.
I guess if your business doesn't need access via road or rail, communication capability or power, or fire or police protection, then you could correctly make the claim you built it yourself.
That would certainly be an interesting business model to evaluate.
But, as you pointed out, you can have all of those things, but without risk takers, nothing gets done.
I see it as a "package deal".
You won't find me defending the current tax plan. I agree that we've created a horribly unbalanced system, and many simply don't understand that the government is US.
I'd like to see a change in the tax collection system in which practically everyone had to physically pay in $$$, even if they got it all back in the future. At least that would help folks understand where the government money comes from.
Your typing speed doesn't affect my reading speed.
You said:
From what I can see, the "I built it" set are the ones who want to walk away from paying maintenance on the system that allowed them to succeed in the first place.
I just wanted you to explain yourself better - perhaps that slower typing will help. :P
Most people (normal people, not crooked bankers or megamillion CEOs) late in their careers are earning more money and paying more taxes - not just more because they are earning more, but also more as a percent of earnings. I know that's been true for me and is certainly true for those people making >$100K. Those higher taxes pay for "maintenance" on roads, infrastructure, etc. If the government is not spending wisely then that's a governmental issue and we all share in that responsibility. I haven't seen you explain what you mean since it obviously differs from my thoughts. Just asking for constructive comments, snark doesn't really answer any true questions.
Your kid's friends probably come from more of the great group of coddling hoverparents, ...
I'd agree with that to a significant degree. But first we complain that its not so good for the younger set, yet they have "coddling hoverparents" - which sounds pretty good, doesn't it? So it's bad, but it's good? Nonsensical.
frankly, it is harder to get going now than it was 35 years ago
I'd agree with that. The recession has certainly killed off a lot of job prospects. Yet there are fields that if chosen wisely, can be very successful. I know a lot of my kids' friends who have chosen "music", "psychology" as majors. I don't know what they expect they will be doing in life. And then there's the even greater number who drop out of HS, or do a year or two in JC while wandering aimlessley through their early adulthood. Not so sure why society should be helping those people. I'm sure a good communist society could support them.
Kids out there today are working just as much and even more than you did, even if you don't know them.
Let's just disagee on that - it doesn't match my experience. And you weren't around in the earlier days to compare. My kids think they have it tough but they'll never realize what it was like for us. As you don't.
Is the US in devolution because of being "lazy" or because real live class warfare has been declared - but not in the direction that the "we built it" crowd wants you to believe?
We could ask that about ancient Rome, England, Spain, and I'm sure many others. Did they go through their lifecycles due to class warfare?
So is a Toyota built here an American car?
Ill always remember being involved in a trade show in Springfield, IL in 1980. Display booth vendors weren't allowed to plug ANYTHING into an outlet. We had to wait for union employees.
And, how did you get a union electrical worker to come by your booth to do that before the show?
While maybe not required, I found out from a "seasoned" attendee in a neighboring booth that a few well-placed $20 bills helped substantially.
That was my indoctrination into how things worked in union controlled environments.
It's that type of idiocy which shows that the unions have largely outlived their usefulness. It's certainly not helping our country stay competitive.
I'm amazed we have survived at home plugging in our appliances without union help. :P
I think the real question comes from what your comparison is based upon. In my lifetime, income tax rates have been significantly higher. Now, does a gent reporting $200K today pay a higher rate than the guy reporting $50K?
Yes.
Historically, he's paying far less percentage than he would have in the past. Add in capital gains tax rates, and its even lower.
http://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-tax-rates?op=1
Those higher taxes pay for "maintenance" on roads, infrastructure, etc. If the government is not spending wisely then that's a governmental issue and we all share in that responsibility.
Yes, road maintenance, welfare, wars, etc.
Really, since the country's beginning, can the government be credited for spending wisely, from an overall perspective?
Poor guy...
That's a great comment. I can't help but think that's as much a failure of our institutionalized higher education system as it is a fault of kids/parents making stupid, or at a minimum, uninformed decisions.
Somewhere along the line, we got sidetracked into thinking everyone should be college educated, regardless if the training and education was of a useful nature or not. Few were willing to ask who was going to pick up garbage, deliver goods, etc.
GMC Acadia, Buick Enclave and Chevrolet Traverse Top List of "Most American" Cars
Yes, but it's not as simple as that.
The tax code has been jiggered around so much since the reform in 1986 that it's a bigger mess than ever. Since they don't want to say they're "raising tax rates", instead they have played all sorts of games like phasing out itemized deductions, not allowing IRA deduction, putting thresholds on deductions for things like medical expenses, and of course when all that fails you have the AMT that gets more and more people each year.
Then add onto that things like other taxes. I know when I first started working here in CA the sales tax was 5%. And today with probably almost double the # of people, instead of economies of scale, somehow the state needs to consume >9%
I wonder for a theoretical "average" high earner (not megamillionaire), but say, $200K/year, what the true differences are in tax rates, after everything is taken into account?
The majority of that is actually poor people who simply don't make enough to pay taxes, or out of work people, retirees with limited resources, etc. Honestly, I don't have too much of a problem with that, although I do think everybody should pay SOMETHING. Even if it's only a $1 minimum. At least then, you have some skin in the game. While "Taxation without representation" is a bad thing, in my opinion, so is "Representation without Taxation". If you don't pay taxes, you have no right to complain.
What really irks me though, are the loopholes and such. I remember seeing some breakout that shows how many people pay no federal income taxes, based on income, and there are actually some people making millions of $ that pay NO federal tax at all! Now, even if all of your income is from investment income, it seems to me that you would at least get hit with the 15% nominal rate for qualified dividends and LT capital gains. But even here, there are exceptions. For instance, tax free municipal bonds. And some companies are set up as Master Limited Partnerships rather than corporations, and their distributions are classified as "Return of Capital" rather than a "Dividend" so it's not taxed. At least, not at the federal rate. Cedar Fair, the company that owns the Cedar Point amusement park in Sandusky, as well as a bunch of other parks, is set up like that. I do have some stock in them, and I was pleasantly surprised to find out that it's not taxable. So, maybe I'm being a bit of a hypocrite there?
I've heard that in theory, a family of four (two parents, two kids) could make up to about $50,000 per year and, thanks to the child tax credit, actually end up not only paying NO federal taxes, but actually getting money back from the gov't!
The oldster generation didn't really have hoverparents, and I am not saying they are good.
The difficulty getting started is related to the cost of living and education more than poorly chosen courses of study. Dumb majors existed in the olden days, too.
I can hazard an educated guess about the conditions for young people 35-40 years ago vs now simply by looking at wages, education and living costs, and competition in the workforce.
Those fallen old empires let their military-industrial cabal run free and break the bank. Not really related to the trickle down nonsense that's eating things here.
I won't get into it any further.
Toyota Avalon is a parallel universe Buick LeSabre. Camry is a Century (the bland 80s-90s model of course).
Point taken, but if you scroll down and view all the charts in the link I provided you can see much of that placed into context.
No doubt about it, our tax system is truly a nightmare.
I sometimes wonder if that's purposely intentional. After all, if you're an hourly or salaried employee, you have a pretty good idea of what your gross income will be in 2013.
Now, in which scenario are you more likely to spend more $$$ and "assist" the economy?
1- The tax system works in such a way that you have an excellent idea of what your yearly tax bill will be this year, such as a flat tax (but not limited to that method) would provide.
OR
2- The tax system works as it is now, and you only have a rough "guestimate" on what your tax bill will be this year?
As you pointed out, the "gotcha" taxes like AMT do a great job in obscuring what your tax bill will actually be, especially if you have mortgage deductions, medical expenses, tuition payments, etc.
Nope. No unfunded military-industrial expenditures here.
The fact our military expenses are greater than that of the next 16 countries combined is only coincidence.
Thankfully, the salesman had some scruples, and he pointed out how a Corvette also needed insurance, gas, tires, oil, etc.
As it turns out, I couldn't really afford it after all, so the joy of ownership went to someone else. I was bummed at first, but before long I realized just how big a service the salesman provided me. If I was in that situation today, I'd probably be toast.
It's not the same tax payers year in and year out though. Sure I could defer enough income and make a large enough charitable donation to this year and not pay any federal taxes.
I've heard that in theory, a family of four (two parents, two kids) could make up to about $50,000 per year and, thanks to the child tax credit, actually end up not only paying NO federal taxes, but actually getting money back from the gov't!
That is definitely possible.
The tax code has been jiggered around so much since the reform in 1986 that it's a bigger mess than ever. Since they don't want to say they're "raising tax rates", instead they have played all sorts of games like phasing out itemized deductions, not allowing IRA deduction, putting thresholds on deductions for things like medical expenses, and of course when all that fails you have the AMT that gets more and more people each year.
I kind of got screwed this year with my daughter's braces. Medical savings accounts were limited to $2,500 this year. My plan was to put in $5k (tax free) to cover her braces. Doh, should have done it last year.
Excuse my ignorance, but that calculation seems (on the surface) to be a "loaded" formula. The term "rigged" so that the desired outcome is achieved comes to mind.
Give me enough maneuvering room, and I can demonstrate we're all living on the moon.
Or, am I missing something?
That's a good point that I hadn't thought of. I guess there could be, say, 10,000 people who make over $1M per year who pay no federal taxes every year, but it might not be the SAME 10,000 people every year.
And, as for my hypothetical family of four living off of $50K per year, honestly that's not all that much, IMO. Maybe in some parts of the country it could be, but certainly not in the DC area!
And it's the case on the opposite end with low to middle income people who didn't have any tax liability this year. It's often different taxes payers year to year.
And, as for my hypothetical family of four living off of $50K per year, honestly that's not all that much, IMO. Maybe in some parts of the country it could be, but certainly not in the DC area!
No doubt, but here in fly over country one could easily get by on $50k a decent house can be had for $100k in some areas and not be in the hood. They certainly wouldn't be living in luxury, but could get buy.
Same is true at trade shows in Chicago, and maybe with good reason. Set up of electrical to booths assures that mickey mouse and otherwise unsatisfactory wring/cabling is not used. And, that connections are to code and not overloaded.
A number of decades ago, the original McCormick Place in Chicago burned down. A housewares show was scheduled to open soon and the cause of the fire was thought to be inadequate wiring in a booth.
The electric code in Chicago and Cook County has always been very stringent. Such as requiring that all electrical wiring in walls of buildings is enclosed in pipe, thinwall. Amazing to watch home improvement shows on tv showing houses around the nation, and Canada, that romex is used widely. That is inferior to running electrical wiring in pipes and terminating in metal boxes on walls and in ceilings.
Most of the infrastructure was built by individuals and private money up until the middle of the 20th century. During the depression many small bridges and roads were built with WPA workers. If the Feds started a WPA type project today the young people would not work for the wages given back in the Depression. The country was built by hard working individuals. Not by collective effort.
Undoubtedly. I know everyone can have their own opinion, but I think if someone disagrees with this, they're not being honest, just a Chick-Fil-A hater!
BTW, apology for using 'their' in my earlier post about eating 'there' today. That's the kind of thing I whine about when I see other people doing it. LOL...my brain works faster than my typing fingers...and I'm actually a pretty fast typist.
Percent is misleading. How much does a person contribute overall in federal taxes to keep this government, infrastructure and the defense of this nation going. Look at total taxes due for a family with AGI of $50K vs one with an AGI of $1M. The latter contributes far, far more to this nation than does the $50K family.
Hooboy, this is gonna make some folks mad!
I still don't like the Traverse in profile, but I sure like it better from the front and rear than I did.
Likely sabotage by a union thug;)
I live in Illinois and my house is wired with romex. This is our 5th house in 5 states and none have used conduit.
The only place I know of which requires conduit is Lake County Indiana. Which is also probably one of the most corrupt. I bet the conduit requirement has far more to do with increasing the labor required to wire a structure, than safety.