Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Production of 2014 Acura MDX Begins in Alabama

    I thought they were building these in 'Bama already but maybe that was just the Odyssey... I know a majority of them cams from Canada.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited May 2013
    Subaru to expand Indiana plant capacity, add Impreza production

    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20130507/OEM01/130509900#ixzz2SdffugpB
    Follow us: @Automotive_News on Twitter | AutoNews on Facebook

    The surprise is that it's not the Forester that's being moved there.

    In fact, I'm still skeptical, despite the article. I still think there's a good chance to Forester will also be built there. They sell a lot more of them here.

    Trivia fact - that's a unionized plant.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 7,236
    Definitely sounds Yiddish...a great language that was my dad's first. They spoke it when we were younger when they didn't want us kids to understand and now, unfortunately, it's a dying language. I need my dictionary when I talk with my older relatives but it gets the job done!

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 7,236
    Whatever...works for me!

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    A Michigan maker of vans for the disabled that received a $50 million Energy Department loan has quietly ceased operation and laid off its staff.

    Vehicle Production Group, or VPG, stopped operations after finances dipped below the minimum required as a condition of the government loan, says former CEO John Walsh. Though about 100 staff were laid off and its offices shuttered, the company has not filed for bankruptcy reorganization.

    VPG, of Allen Park, Mich., received its Energy Department loan under the same clean-energy program -- now under fire by House Republicans -- that originally committed $527 million to troubled plug-in hybrid carmaker Fisker Automotive and $535 million to solar start-up Solyndra, which has filed for bankruptcy reorganization. VPG was deemed eligible for the clean energy loan because some of its vans were to be fitted to run on compressed natural gas.


    http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/05/08/vpg-auto-fisker-solyndra-tes- la-doe-loan/2143201/
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Technically, they haven't bit the dust. They have yet to file for bankruptcy as they are searching for a buyer. The $50 million for the DOE was only part of the $400 million they raised from private equity.

    Surprisingly, they have a backlog of orders - 2,500 vehicles are on order.

    I think everyone can agree - it's not easy to run a car company especially one that is in a niche market.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,055
    I've actually seen a few of those VPG vans driving about, which is more than I can say for Fisker, which I haven't seen outside of a placement or two in "Two and a Half Men", or in the news following those electrical fires after they got wet.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I've seen a few around and spoke with the regional VP back in January at the auto show in Boston.

    It really is a limited market but is a viable one. The idea of a purpose built vehicle for the disabled market is big enough to support the company IMHO. It will take time to build the volume needed for achievement of profit.

    I didn't know it had received DOE support. I guess when I think "alternative fuel", I think electric. CNG didn't cross my mind.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Even conversions aren't very common, I think only Dodge (Grand Caravan) and Toyota (Sienna) are in that market.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    edited May 2013
    Even conversions aren't very common, I think only Dodge (Grand Caravan) and Toyota (Sienna) are in that market.

    No they aren't very common. I think that's because they are so expensive - IIRC, most start at about $45K and they've been extensively modified - mainly lowering the floor.

    There is a dealer here in town that sells the MV-1. Most that I've seen there have livery plates and are owned by assisted living facilities. They are more convenient for that sort of duty compared to a 15 passenger van or small bus. VPG was trying to reach out to the livery, assisted living, taxi and transit companies in addition to private owners.

    One thing I find curious is that they don't offer the MV-1 set up with hand controls. The sales person I met said they leave that up to conversion companies. I'm going to guess it's due to liability issues.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I imagine there are incentive programs available, I hope so...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Longtime auto industry research and consulting company Strategic Vision today released its 2013 Total Quality Index study that rates vehicles within their segments. The company said domestic brands won more TQI awards than competing brands from overseas this year – the first time that has happened in more than a decade."

    Detroit Vehicles Outperform Imports in Quality Study (Wall St. Journal)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited May 2013
    A case of build it and they will come.

    I wish it was divided by place of manufacture and not name plate.

    Fusion on the cover photo is Mexican.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    "Longtime auto industry research and consulting company Strategic Vision today released its 2013 Total Quality Index study that rates vehicles within their segments. The company said domestic brands won more TQI awards than competing brands from overseas this year – the first time that has happened in more than a decade."

    Looks like they considered 2013 models only. Besides "quality" initially, the full story of any brand and model has to also include "reliability". That will not be known for 2013 models until 2016 or 2018 or 2020 or 2022.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    It's important to note is that this survey is based on emotional reactions - afaik, it has noting to do with statistical qualitative measurements. I vaguely recall similar conversations on Edmunds every time this survey comes out.

    Domestic nameplates are creating emotional buying decisions - for them that's great because the vast majority of car sales are based on emotion.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's like JD's APEAL study (one "p"). How do you feel about your car? VW does well here, but not as well in IQ/Durability.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,389
    edited May 2013
    As I mentioned in another topic, I've been looking at the 500 Abarth and the Fiesta ST. Both are assembled in Mexico, but the Abarth's engine is built in Michigan...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I wish you would go ahead and get the Abarth, so you could come back and tell us how much fun you're having with it. It really looks like a fun car!
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    I finally took my Malibu more than 70 miles from home. 462 miles each way to the Great Smoky Mts. in N.C. and the car managed 38.5 mpg each way on RUG. I filled it up at my exit getting home last night and the DIC gave a range of 678 miles for the 16 gallon tank. The range matched the miles/gallons used calc of 42.2 but the DIC said the avg was 38.5. A 47 mpg hybrid would have saved me 2.17 gallons each way.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Following the money isn't easy. All carmakers are global companies and they employ people in multiple nations. They build cars in North and South America, Europe, Asia and Australia. And they pay taxes (when they pay taxes) wherever they do business.

    With a foreign carmaker such as Hyundai, Porsche or Toyota, the profits primarily go back to shareholders in their home countries.

    If a carmaker assembles its vehicles in the U.S., however, the index grants it full marks in the "labor" category, as well as in the category of "inventory, capital and other expenses." Those scores reflect the wages the carmaker paid to American workers, the money it reinvested in U.S. manufacturing facilities and taxes it paid here, DuBois says."

    Foreign Cars Made in America: Where Does the Money Go?
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Does the Kogod Made in America index mean made in one or more of the 50 States of the United States of America?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Good question. Made in America can be from Canada to Tierra del Fuego at the tip of South America. Brazil is becoming a power house auto making country. Ford has their most advanced plant in Brazil. My guess is Kogod is sponsored by the domestic automakers. An example is the Chevy Volt. Kogod gives it a high 65.5 points. Yet it is only 45% US/Canada content according the the AALA.

    http://www.nhtsa.gov/Laws+&+Regulations/Part+583+American+Automobile+Labeling+Ac- t+%28AALA%29+Reports
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited June 2013
    "For the consumer who simply wants to know, “Was this car made in America or not?” a clear answer is almost impossible." (kogodnow.com)

    "On its Web site, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration publishes the American Automobile Labeling Act (AALA) lists for model years dating back to 2007. They're organized by percentage of domestic content and alphabetically by manufacturer.

    But the AALA list is puzzling right off the bat. Under its provisions, for example, the term "American" covers both U.S. and Canadian content.

    The subhead? - Your Choice Starts With Your Definition"

    How To Buy an American Car

    Interesting side note from my first link - Professor DuBois was a VW mechanic at one time. "He anticipates the index will draw criticism from manufacturers. His response? “Show me something better.”
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,522
    That might be the best way to look at it - your choice is your definition. Maybe not put total stock in the opinions of either manufacturers or academia as well, but do your own research and use your own values. That's why labeling of all consumer products is important - and sadly for some products, those who buy the rules in this market oligarchy have exempted themselves.

    IMO, place of final assembly is likely the most important facet, with powertrain source also up there.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited June 2013
    So, all the stamped steel, machined parts, plastic bits and nuts and bolts get shipped from China and assembled in Detroit by Brazilian robots in an American company based in Turin, Italy. Works for me. :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,522
    edited June 2013
    I can't think of a car here with those origins. Sounds like hyperbole. Chinese steel? I'll drive my old beast forever rather than go that route.

    The corporate overlords who have the bleeding heart one worlders on a short leash need to be required to label the origin of all parts and assembly. There's no reason not to do so, other than deception that enables their own pay to grow. Everything in the world is not equal.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Kogod's list starts off less than accurate. "Profit margin" none of the auto makers profits all end up in the USA. Saying it is related to the name plate is not honest. All of the manufacturers are multinational corps. If he had researched and graded that number from 0-6 based on the percentage of taxed income in the USA, it would be legit. I can buy TM (Toyota) stock on the NYSE. I would bet a lot of big pension funds in the USA have TM stock. All pay some taxes from profit in the USA. I would think labor would be higher. But it was their study, and sort of like the CNW study you can take it or leave it.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited June 2013
    If he had researched and graded that number from 0-6 based on the percentage of taxed income in the USA, it would be legit.

    They'd all be tied at zero. :D

    I think there was a WSJ article this week about how many bridges are being repaired with Chinese steel, Fin. Better be careful where you drive that German steel car.

    Reminds me of all the hoo-hah over building the TransAlaska Pipeline - US jobs and energy independence kept getting bandied about. Yet all the pipe came from Japan.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    That's why labeling of all consumer products is important - and sadly for some products, those who buy the rules in this market oligarchy have exempted themselves.

    Don't forget the Feds buckled to the WTO on Country of Origin Labeling. I don't buy any juice in the markets now. Most is mixed with apple juice from China. 80% of our juice is now foreign origin. And they cannot tell you where it came from. Thanks to the UN and their WTO.

    The Panel determined that the COOL measure is a technical regulation under the TBT Agreement, and that it is inconsistent with the United States' WTO obligations.

    The Arbitrator determined that the “reasonable period of time” for the United States to implement the recommendations and rulings of the DSB in these disputes is 10 months from the adoption of the Panel and Appellate Body Reports, that is, until 23 May 2013.


    http://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/cases_e/ds386_e.htm
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think there was a WSJ article this week about how many bridges are being repaired with Chinese steel

    The Oakland Bay Bridge rebuild is by a Chinese company with Chinese steel. You would think a state totally controlled by Democrats would look out for US workers and companies.

    But legislators also need to hold accountable those responsible for the debacle, and ensure that the agency does not reprise its appalling performance on the Bay Bridge project. The new eastern span of the bridge will replace the span damaged by the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake, yet safety concerns remain while the project has ballooned in cost. Caltrans put the cost of the span at $1.3 billion in 1997, but that price now stands at $6.4 billion. Bay Area motorists will cover much of that cost through higher bridge tolls, but state taxpayers are also paying part of the bill.

    And the cost will almost surely continue to climb, thanks to repairs required on a new bridge section that has yet to open. News stories over the past few months have detailed a series of safety issues with the new eastern span — some of them longstanding, quietly hidden and still unaddressed. Some 32 of the large steel seismic safety bolts broke when workers tightened them in March, raising questions about the more than 1,200 steel bolts in the structure.


    And who built the new Eastern Span???

    The Eastern Span Was Built in China by Chinese Workers

    The Chinese built the most spectacular portion of the bridge; the eastern span, consisting of a suspension bridge with a 500 foot tower and a single suspension cable one-mile long. The cable has 137 steel strands.

    It seems illogical that a U. S. bridge could be constructed in China. The bridge sections were simply fabricated in China and shipped to California.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited June 2013
    Found the WSJ link via Google:

    "The Verrazano-Narrows Bridge was a feat of American engineering when it was built across New York's harbor in the 1960s. Now, it's being repaired with steel made in China.

    Most of the steel from China now goes into building projects like bridges and buildings, sweet spots for Nucor Corp., the No. 3 U.S. steelmaker, which makes half of its steel for the construction industry."

    I have a nephew at Nucor and I own some of their stock. But I also have a Chinese ETF and my wife owns some Toyota. What are you gonna do? :confuse:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,522
    That's exactly what I was getting at, food labels. There's no reason they are wanting to conceal this information unless they have something to hide. Cars are not far off.

    A cheapo orange juice I buy actually does have origin information, IIRC. Seems to be voluntary, or when made in the developed world, a bragging point.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    What they don't say is how long it's been sitting in a tank somewhere. The OJ may have been squeezed fresh but it may be 9 months old when it's packaged and sent to Kroger.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Now I know what I would do if I hit the Powerball: I buy my own farm! At least then I'd know where all my food came from!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,522
    As long as I know where it is from, that's fine. When I buy OJ that cheap,I don't expect it to be squeezed that day :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,522
    And maybe have a lot of food sourced from outside the country. Seems when I go to Germany, I end up losing a few pounds even when I am eating more carbs than I ever would at home - and all the food there is labeled, too.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited June 2013
    I think most of our OJ is from Brazil. I am less worried about that than the Apple juice used in most juice creation drinks from China. My wife bought a half gallon of fresh squeezed OJ at the local yuppie store. It cost $11. I did not think it was that good. We squeeze our own oranges and it is much sweeter. Not sure what type oranges they used. We have both blood oranges and navel oranges. The navel oranges are the sweetest to me. We plan to pull out some non producing fruit trees and add more orange trees.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    A reporter would like to speak to a recent buyer of a car from a manufacturer that is widely considered "American"--e.g. Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Chrysler, Cadillac-- who has not previously owned an "American" car. If this is you, please send your daytime contact info to pr@edmunds.com no later than Monday, July 1, 2013 no later than noon Pacific.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited July 2013
    Just looking at the 2014 AALA chart and notice the biggest sellers for GM their PU trucks are losing more and more of their US/Canada content. Down to 40% on the 2014 Sierra and Silverado. In 2007 those two mainstays of the General were 90% USA/Canada content. Now the only two PU trucks with 75% or more are the Ford F series and the Toyota Tundra. Though that may change when they announce where their 2014 models will be made.

    http://www.nhtsa.gov/Laws+&+Regulations/Part+583+American+Automobile+Labeling+Ac- t+%28AALA%29+Reports
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Quite an accomplishment in 4 years. Maybe the Domestics need to study the competition and learn something.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,522
    Government coddling and good marketing can do a lot.

    A big white mommymobile with what looks like lots of gold accents...hold me back, I can't resist!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,932
    If true, that is disappointing. I've never seen a GM with that low 'domestic' content--the last Impala I looked at a few weeks back was 66%, with assembly, and engine and trasmission assembly, in the U.S. I think those last three things are important also.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It looks like the Impala and Malibu will stay at 66% US/Canada content. What is disappointing is the top selling GM Silverado and Sierra have gone from 90% in 2007 to 40% with the 2014 MY. They will come from both Mexican and US factories with 51% Mexican content. The best selling Cadillac is the SRX and it is only 26% US content. Only thing made in US is the transmission. 65% is Mexican. Government Motors has not been good to US workers. Slowly taking the jobs and sending them elsewhere.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,522
    It'd be interesting to see the details of that other 34%. Do they keep it secret? If they had nothing to hide...
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited July 2013
    You can bet a lot of parts come from Chindia. I know the NAV in my Sequoia was made in India. In 2007 that was not part of the 85% US content. I would be surprised if any of the electronics are made in USA.

    PS
    I think they focus on the engine, transmission and final assembly locations.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    It looks like the Impala and Malibu will stay at 66% US/Canada content. What is disappointing is the top selling GM Silverado and Sierra have gone from 90% in 2007 to 40% with the 2014 MY. They will come from both Mexican and US factories with 51% Mexican content. The best selling Cadillac is the SRX and it is only 26% US content. Only thing made in US is the transmission. 65% is Mexican. Government Motors has not been good to US workers. Slowly taking the jobs and sending them elsewhere.

    Seems like the common demominator in all of this is the UAW. For the transplants which are all non-unionized, they are increasing production in the US and their domestic content is rising. The highest domestic content cars are largely foreign-nameplate.

    OTOH, the D3 domestic content is declining. Yet both sets of companies can use US labor and US laws. Two of the D3 even got cash infusions from the Government. Yet they are slowly moving production out of the country. The UAW and their militant labor behaviors are a boat anchor and the D3 companies all know it.
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