I would rather have a bridge/road/building designed by someone who took civil engineering classes than someone who was taking french poetry classes. Being an engineer does not automatically make someone a social misfit either. I have an engineering degree and I can also communicate with others pretty well.
I seem to maintain some modicum of communication skills while still being a social misfit. When I was I college I used to write love letters to the woman who is now my wife on engineering paper.
Conversely, a lot of very skilled technical people make lousy managers and leaders. They are completely different skill sets.
I concur. I can definitely think of examples in my life.
Money talks my friend. Most people want something decent for the lowest price. They want neither the best or worst quality item at a cheap price and that means it will be imported from a country with radically different living standards than ours. I am talking consumer goods not cars. And the quality of items has suffered because of this trend.
A good example is the toys my kids play with. They play with my old Star Wars action figures from 20+ years ago and the newer ones from today. My old ones can take (and have taken) far more abuse than the crap they have out today. The new ones are already missing hands and heads. The old ones are doing fine considering they have been abused by two generations of kids. The newer stuff is practically disposable.
he used engineering paper so he could use all those magocal mathematical formulas on her, you know, fancy smart stuff like the e=mc2 stuff that smart folks use to impress people, that is, people like me...
While discussing how to make donuts, I am laways impressed if someone fits an e=mc2 into the conversation...
Seriously man, you should become a Sci-fi novelist. That stuff is juicy. I heard Philly was pretty dangerous but you've just described the opening scene like "Terminator 2"!
When does the aliens come down and steal all our women and children (Who I would assume would be working the streets to pay the bills?) and take them to planet wackytibacky?
Just remember, when zombies start roaming the streets a la 28 Days Later, the perfect place to barracade yourself into is a Wal-Mart. It has food, clothing, gardening materials, tools and guns with ammo. You can grow food on the large flat roof and shoot at the zombies for fun when you get bored.
Yes, I have spent far too much time thinking about this.
Just remember, when zombies start roaming the streets a la 28 Days Later, the perfect place to barracade yourself into is a Wal-Mart. It has food, clothing, gardening materials, tools and guns with ammo. You can grow food on the large flat roof and shoot at the zombies for fun when you get bored.
The problem you'd have is the zombies are working at Walmart!LOL
Just remember, when zombies start roaming the streets a la 28 Days Later, the perfect place to barracade yourself into is a Wal-Mart. It has food, clothing, gardening materials, tools and guns with ammo. You can grow food on the large flat roof and shoot at the zombies for fun when you get bored.
It depends on the job. Certainly many if not most employers look for employees with certain skill sets/ backgrounds. Some jobs have specialized skills for which there is simply no substitute. Other employers simply hire the best and brightest, figuring that you can train someone easily who is brilliant, you can't take a trained person and make them brilliant.
In my company (fortune 500 company), I'd say most people were trained specifically for the job from school. However, the few that I know that have degrees from the top liberal arts colleges seem to run circles around them. An English major can't fill an Engineering position, but you'd be amazed at how many English majors can do an awful lot of things. The Engineer's training is so focused from freshman year in college, he often lacks in other areas. All this being said, if getting a quality job is important, training for a specific job is probably your best bet. Most employers will look at the "qualifications" and ignore the package.
is sad that they are talking about how bad things from China are made and Ford plans to have the Ford Fusion made in China, can the ford quality get any worse? or maybe it may be an improvement.
It won't matter. A Ford made in China or Mexico is more American to many than a Honda or Toyota made in the USA. I don't see them dismissing Ford as an import brand even if they imported 100% of their vehicles from outside. To justify, a point will be made along the lines... blame UAW.
UAW is a factor, they refuse to budge on pay, if i had the option of pay and/or benefits cut or lose job, I'll take a pay cut, they are paid too much for the work they do, most union workers are. is sick to see line men working here, when putting up a new pole or replacing they have 11 people there, 1 operating the machine that drills hole and places pole and 1 spotter then 9 others required to be there by contract. also in their contract that they do not have to drive over 45mph, real pain when on 65mph highway and get stuck behind one of their trucks.
That doesn't explain why Ford would have accountants in India as opposed to here. I say... excuses and they discovered a good one the bean-counters can rely on, anytime. I can bet there are a lot of non-UAW jobs that they have outsourced. But only likes of Dell etc get the (bad) publicity.
I was just looking at the sales figures for the EU. There is not a Japanese company in the top 5 or 6 auto makers. VW is far and away number one. The EU is much more in tuned to good handling and good mileage. Does this mean that the Japanese do not have any great mileage or handling cars for sale in the EU? I see where Lexus a very small niche player in the EU is DOWN 17% over the first half of the year. Maybe the US buyer is getting offered a whole lot less than the EU. Nothing I see makes me want to spend any money on a new vehicle. I am tired of cars designed by Congress via the NHTSA, CARB and EPA. They obviously do not know the difference between a good car and a bad one.
How is a Ford built in China more of a US car than a Honda or Toyota built here with (assumedly) American labor (note: non union) and local suppliers who also hire American workers even if the company is owned by Japanese...
roberstsmx: That doesn't explain why Ford would have accountants in India as opposed to here. I say... excuses and they discovered a good one the bean-counters can rely on, anytime.
If Ford needs to cut labor costs, and the UAW contract prevents this from occurring in the blue-collar ranks in the USA, it must look elsewhere for savings.
White-collar workers are not covered by any contract, so Ford can replace a white-collar worker in America with one in India, and save money.
That explains why the UAW is a factor in decisions such as this, although not the only one.
robertsmx: Ford is doing both. Isn't it? Are you telling me they won't, if they didn't have to deal with UAW?
Ford is buying out UAW members or offering them a chance for early retirement, which is not the same thing as laying them off, and sending them to the unemployment office with, at best, a small severance package.
The buyouts cost money, although they offer Ford long-term savings (the employees are off the books, as they agree to take a lump sum payment instead of remaining eligible for health care and pensions).
Note that, unlike layoffs, the buyouts are voluntary. The workers do not have to take the offer.
In the case of those taking early retirement, Ford is still on the hook for pensions and health care costs.
Even with these buyouts and early retirement offerings, Ford still has a labor-cost disadvantage with Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Hyundai. Which means that until Ford can significantly reduce this gap, it will search for savings with other means, including outsourcing of white-collar work when possible.
robertsmx: Then, take a look at companies that are outsourcing today. Why are they doing it... they can't blame UAW, could they?
Better yet, take a look at the companies within the same industry, and let's make that the industry that most interests this site.
Note that Toyota, Honda and Hyundai are increasing their employment - both white-collar and blue-collar - within the U.S. Note that their blue-collar workers are not represented by the UAW.
Please re-read my post. I said that the UAW is a factor, not the factor.
The UAW can't be completely blamed for these companies' problems, but to deny its influence on certain decisions is ignoring reality.
Which means that until Ford can significantly reduce this gap, it will search for savings with other means, including outsourcing of white-collar work when possible.
Are we to assume that once UAW is out of picture, Ford will bring back those jobs? Or, would they be like a shark that just tasted blood, and keep it going? Personally, I don't see why they would (unless there are issues with outsourcing of different kind).
Does it really matter to a company whether they employ here or there, when regardless of what they do, they are not going to be labeled "import" by many? Thats the point being missed.
Any poor business decision made comes back to bite companies in the rear, UAW is just one example. It is more telling of how these businesses are run than anything else. You give abusive powers to some, what do you expect? Businesses should be run as partnership, and I believe companies like Honda and Toyota are doing just that. Do you think their employees are unsatisfied? I doubt it.
PS. the company I work for has been laying off people twice a year by offering early retirement package. And it has nothing to do with unions. Those jobs are basically being replaced by folks abroad.
robertsmx: Are we to assume that once UAW is out of picture, Ford will bring back those jobs? Or, would they be like a shark that just tasted blood, and keep it going? Personally, I don't see why they would (unless there are issues with outsourcing of different kind).
Who says the UAW will be out of the picture? The choice is not "UAW, or No UAW."
Ford is negotiating with the UAW over this cost differential, and what can be done about it, as we type our posts. Given that Ford is negotiating with the UAW, as opposed to provoking a strike and locking out the workers, we can logically conclude that the union will remain in the picture for the foreseeable future.
What competitive labor costs do is give Ford the option of bringing back those jobs if issues do surface - not to mention reducing the pressure to outsource them in the first place.
robertsmx: Does it really matter to a company whether they employ here or there, when regardless of what they do, they are not going to be labeled "import" by many? Thats the point being missed.
I've never had an issue with an Accord made in Ohio or a Camry made in Kentucky being considered a "domestic" vehicle, so I must assume that this was addressed to other posters.
robertsmx: Businesses should be run as partnership, and I believe companies like Honda and Toyota are doing just that. Do you think their employees are unsatisfied? I doubt it.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but judging by recent press releases and the organizing efforts, the UAW seems to think otherwise.
robertsmx: PS. the company I work for has been laying off people twice a year by offering early retirement package. And it has nothing to do with unions. Those jobs are basically being replaced by folks abroad.
And note that when Ford offered early retirement to its blue-collar workers, the jobs went away - Ford did not replace them with overseas workers. Which suggests that they weren't needed in the first place.
there is a big difference in a Ford built for the EU market than the same model built for the US market, been in a Ford Escort that had no problems doing 250+kph in Germany, us version couldn't do that.
There probably isn’t the same gap in fuel efficiency or safety or content in Europe between the Japanese and the European models as there is in the United States. The United states is country with cheaper gas than Japan and Europe. If you think the current gas prices are high imagine paying like $5.00 a gallon. This is about what gas goes for in Japan.
Also places like Japan and Europe are not friendly towards big cars. Space is much more at a premium than in the US. Japan also has much stricter laws regarding pollution than the US and Germany probably has much stricter safety standards than the US.
Our cheap gas and spaciousness allowed the domestics to lose sight of fuel efficiency and build big cars and SUVs. When gas prices rose the domestics were caught off guard. The Japanese and the Europeans could never afford to have too many fuel hungry cars in their respective markets because gas prices there are always high. Something like the Ford explorer would never sell in Japan. Too fuel hungry and no where to park it!
Cars are very tuned to their respective markets. What will sell well in Japan or Europe could flop here in the US (or Vice Versa).
I was just looking at the sales figures for the EU. There is not a Japanese company in the top 5 or 6 auto makers. VW is far and away number one.
sales are one thing. owner satisfaction is another. i have seen several articles (including a german auto rag) where japanese vehicles are among the top 10 in europe in OWNER SATISFACTION.
considering the reliability of euro brands actually lags american brands now, japanese reliability makes even more of an impression there than here. and of course, as mentioned, size and fuel efficiency are major factors there. so american cars are not as popular. i'd suspect japanese cars rank FAR higher in sales there than american cars.
one of the surprises is suzuki CARS are rated higher in europe than here in the u.s.
from the Motor Authority (july 2006) [bold added]:
"Despite having four of the most acclaimed car manufacturers in the world – BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and Volkswagen – it seems the Germans are most satisfied with Japanese cars. In a recent study by JD Power and Associates, Toyota, Honda, Mazda, and Subaru made up the four most satisfying brands to own. Toyota models also ranked highest in four of the seven individual vehicle segments, with Mazda and Volvo taking the other categories The top cars in each of the seven market segments are:
"And note that when Ford offered early retirement to its blue-collar workers, the jobs went away - Ford did not replace them with overseas workers. Which suggests that they weren't needed in the first place. "
I would gamble that, altho many lost auto jobs are partially due simply to lost market share, even before the loss, that the automakers simply had too many workers on staff, simple "union featherbedding and bloating"...getting down to a lean building force, while maybe not good for the displaced worker, may be good for the company...sadly, the workers job probably never should have been created in the first place, but such is market economics...
"Just about every month, CNW Market Research meets with a group of would-be car buyers and plays a trick on them.
Sometimes the company, which specializes in auto sales trends, takes a Toyota Camry, removes any identifying logos, and tells them it's a new model from one of the U.S.-based auto makers. Or it takes a domestic car and tells them it's a Toyota or another import make.
Either way, the result is the same. "If they think it's an American car, the perception of the vehicle falls dramatically," said Art Spinella, vice president of the Bandon, Ore.-based firm. "Detroit really gets a bum rap in the U.S."
Another great link. It did work for me without signing up. If people don't want to sign up giving info for some sites that do data collection just to look at their pages, try bugmenot.com for password and usename info.
There was something back in the 90s about (GM) having taken a car with no ID and having import-lovers test it. They liked it because they thought it was their favorite brand. It's sort of like politics, even the current Presidential candidate group. Some people are predecided.
In various GM groups I and others have said that if the same car were from one of the foreign brands it would be touted and praised by folks; but from GM all they look for is something they can say that car doesn't have, and if only it would have that they "might" look at the car but since it doesn't have that feature or perceived quality, it's JANG (just ain't no good).
A prime example would be the Aztek. Look at Aztek then Element then xB.
But some folks just aren't open-minded about cars. They don't understand that flaw numbers have centered around a high quality level with a small standard deviation for many cars. I see Toyo even tried to extend the quality difference perception, misperception, by saying they continually improve their cars even now. I wonder if that includes their transmission/powertrain problems through the Avalon, ES, and Camry models in the Toyota lineup? Toyo has fought hard to admit problems in the Camry version.
And that leads us back to what would be a huge blowup in media touting problems if that were to have been a GM car, oh say the Impala. That's what it means to "buy American" in that despite improvements in quality, they still are perceived as lesser in quality to some imaginary, ideal concept about all foreign branded cars.
And just exactly WHY do buyers instinctively rate the domestics as lower? Because they've been trained by 30+ years of cars, that, with few exceptions, range from subpar to mediocre when compared to most of their foreign competition.
Car companies, like people, have to live with the reputations that they have earned.
And for all of the "the domestics have cut the quality gap with Toyota" mantra, I note that the only domestic cars that consistently top all reliability surveys are Buicks and Lincolns, both of which are bought largely by senior citizens who only see the far side of 65 mph if they fly to their destination.
They also aren't exactly known as marques featuring new, cutting-edge technology or the latest drivetrains. If GM hasn't had the bugs worked out of that ancient 3.8 V-6 and four-speed automatic transmission by now, it needs to get into another business.
Every independent mechanic I ask tells me the same thing - Honda and Toyota really are tops for reliability. The domestics are getting better - particularly Ford, now that it has canned the awful 3.8 V-6 - but still haven't toppled the current champs, no matter what Bob Lutz or anyone else says.
I want our domestic industry to be a source of pride, too. But that goal won't be achieved through either press releases, or whining. They've made good progress, but more work needs to be done.
GM, for example, needs to build a Cobalt that shows the same level of care and attention to detail that it has put into the Corvette and new Cadillac CTS.
If all the pro Asian car buyers started buying Toyota in 1964 like I did, they would not be so gungho. I bought because it was what I could afford. They were not in a league with the Big 3. All car companies have had periods of less than stellar vehicles. Back then Toyota was not in the same league as Datsun (Nissan).
ALL new cars, regardless of name, might appear nice when on the showroom floor, so when observers downgrade the vehicle if told it is "American made", they are simply reflecting on the reputations that the Big 3 have earned for themselves in the last 30 years...
No one would care if it was the toy industry, but a car is about the second largest purchase anyone makes in their lifetime, and often multiple purchases over many years...
An unmarked Vega or Pinto or Yugo may look nice in the showroom, but opinuions would change when you told them they were sitting in a Vega, Pinto or Yugo, as images of the automaker's reputation start to cloud the mind...they are starting to think of how soon the car will break down, how much difficulty they will have getting the dealer to fix it, how soon will they have to replace it (100K or 200K miles)...
Despite sludge problems with Toyo, they still have an overall rep for quality that GM/Ford will spend YEARS trying to match and overcome, and I will bet they NEVER will, simply because 20-30 years of crap creates long memories in the minds of buyers and also the buyers kids as they grow up and ask adults what cars are good...
The Big 3 simply took all their goodwill from WWII and arrogantly blew it over the next 40-50 years, and now they are whining that nobody believes them...and, LIKE IT OR NOT, THE UAW SHARES THE BLAME OR CREATED THE BLAME, but once a buyer knows union labor built it, there is often, not always, a sour taste in their mouth...
Since union labor is only one variable, it is not the whole picture...but it is the pink elephant in the room that the Big 3 and the UAW itself do not want to draw attention...
Like it or not, the union has earned itself a poor rep, reagrdless of wether the designers designed a poor car for them to build...the nonunion labor of the imports in TN, KY, etc. does not have that albatross around their neck, and therefore receive the PRESUMPTION of good quality...
If we're talking new buyers then, all that training by 30+ years of car ownership shouldn't apply. Are all the kids listening to their parents grumble (the same parents who switched to Camcords?).
Comments
I seem to maintain some modicum of communication skills while still being a social misfit. When I was I college I used to write love letters to the woman who is now my wife on engineering paper.
Conversely, a lot of very skilled technical people make lousy managers and leaders. They are completely different skill sets.
I concur. I can definitely think of examples in my life.
A good example is the toys my kids play with. They play with my old Star Wars action figures from 20+ years ago and the newer ones from today. My old ones can take (and have taken) far more abuse than the crap they have out today. The new ones are already missing hands and heads. The old ones are doing fine considering they have been abused by two generations of kids. The newer stuff is practically disposable.
I bet they were graphic too. :shades:
Where would we be without word play? (and don't say on-topic :P ).
While discussing how to make donuts, I am laways impressed if someone fits an e=mc2 into the conversation...
(yep, the long weekend has started here).
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
When does the aliens come down and steal all our women and children (Who I would assume would be working the streets to pay the bills?) and take them to planet wackytibacky?
Yes, I have spent far too much time thinking about this.
The problem you'd have is the zombies are working at Walmart!LOL
...Shop smart, shop S-mart...
BOOMSTICK
Definitely a classic movie...
In my company (fortune 500 company), I'd say most people were trained specifically for the job from school. However, the few that I know that have degrees from the top liberal arts colleges seem to run circles around them. An English major can't fill an Engineering position, but you'd be amazed at how many English majors can do an awful lot of things. The Engineer's training is so focused from freshman year in college, he often lacks in other areas.
All this being said, if getting a quality job is important, training for a specific job is probably your best bet. Most employers will look at the "qualifications" and ignore the package.
Place has everything you need if you're gonna be 'holed-up' for 4 to 6 months when Zombies come around :shades:
or maybe it may be an improvement.
also in their contract that they do not have to drive over 45mph, real pain when on 65mph highway and get stuck behind one of their trucks.
What UAW workers building cars are driving trucks on the highway?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That doesn't explain why Ford would have accountants in India as opposed to here. I say... excuses and they discovered a good one the bean-counters can rely on, anytime. I can bet there are a lot of non-UAW jobs that they have outsourced. But only likes of Dell etc get the (bad) publicity.
I did not see the "to many" when you wrote that, so I read the statement and thought you were asserting that a Ford made in China was more American...
I need to learn to read...sorry for my error...
If Ford needs to cut labor costs, and the UAW contract prevents this from occurring in the blue-collar ranks in the USA, it must look elsewhere for savings.
White-collar workers are not covered by any contract, so Ford can replace a white-collar worker in America with one in India, and save money.
That explains why the UAW is a factor in decisions such as this, although not the only one.
Then, take a look at companies that are outsourcing today. Why are they doing it... they can't blame UAW, could they?
Ford is buying out UAW members or offering them a chance for early retirement, which is not the same thing as laying them off, and sending them to the unemployment office with, at best, a small severance package.
The buyouts cost money, although they offer Ford long-term savings (the employees are off the books, as they agree to take a lump sum payment instead of remaining eligible for health care and pensions).
Note that, unlike layoffs, the buyouts are voluntary. The workers do not have to take the offer.
In the case of those taking early retirement, Ford is still on the hook for pensions and health care costs.
Even with these buyouts and early retirement offerings, Ford still has a labor-cost disadvantage with Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Hyundai. Which means that until Ford can significantly reduce this gap, it will search for savings with other means, including outsourcing of white-collar work when possible.
robertsmx: Then, take a look at companies that are outsourcing today. Why are they doing it... they can't blame UAW, could they?
Better yet, take a look at the companies within the same industry, and let's make that the industry that most interests this site.
Note that Toyota, Honda and Hyundai are increasing their employment - both white-collar and blue-collar - within the U.S. Note that their blue-collar workers are not represented by the UAW.
Please re-read my post. I said that the UAW is a factor, not the factor.
The UAW can't be completely blamed for these companies' problems, but to deny its influence on certain decisions is ignoring reality.
Are we to assume that once UAW is out of picture, Ford will bring back those jobs? Or, would they be like a shark that just tasted blood, and keep it going? Personally, I don't see why they would (unless there are issues with outsourcing of different kind).
Does it really matter to a company whether they employ here or there, when regardless of what they do, they are not going to be labeled "import" by many? Thats the point being missed.
Any poor business decision made comes back to bite companies in the rear, UAW is just one example. It is more telling of how these businesses are run than anything else. You give abusive powers to some, what do you expect? Businesses should be run as partnership, and I believe companies like Honda and Toyota are doing just that. Do you think their employees are unsatisfied? I doubt it.
PS. the company I work for has been laying off people twice a year by offering early retirement package. And it has nothing to do with unions. Those jobs are basically being replaced by folks abroad.
Who says the UAW will be out of the picture? The choice is not "UAW, or No UAW."
Ford is negotiating with the UAW over this cost differential, and what can be done about it, as we type our posts. Given that Ford is negotiating with the UAW, as opposed to provoking a strike and locking out the workers, we can logically conclude that the union will remain in the picture for the foreseeable future.
What competitive labor costs do is give Ford the option of bringing back those jobs if issues do surface - not to mention reducing the pressure to outsource them in the first place.
robertsmx: Does it really matter to a company whether they employ here or there, when regardless of what they do, they are not going to be labeled "import" by many? Thats the point being missed.
I've never had an issue with an Accord made in Ohio or a Camry made in Kentucky being considered a "domestic" vehicle, so I must assume that this was addressed to other posters.
robertsmx: Businesses should be run as partnership, and I believe companies like Honda and Toyota are doing just that. Do you think their employees are unsatisfied? I doubt it.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but judging by recent press releases and the organizing efforts, the UAW seems to think otherwise.
robertsmx: PS. the company I work for has been laying off people twice a year by offering early retirement package. And it has nothing to do with unions. Those jobs are basically being replaced by folks abroad.
And note that when Ford offered early retirement to its blue-collar workers, the jobs went away - Ford did not replace them with overseas workers. Which suggests that they weren't needed in the first place.
Also places like Japan and Europe are not friendly towards big cars. Space is much more at a premium than in the US. Japan also has much stricter laws regarding pollution than the US and Germany probably has much stricter safety standards than the US.
Our cheap gas and spaciousness allowed the domestics to lose sight of fuel efficiency and build big cars and SUVs. When gas prices rose the domestics were caught off guard. The Japanese and the Europeans could never afford to have too many fuel hungry cars in their respective markets because gas prices there are always high. Something like the Ford explorer would never sell in Japan. Too fuel hungry and no where to park it!
Cars are very tuned to their respective markets. What will sell well in Japan or Europe could flop here in the US (or Vice Versa).
sales are one thing. owner satisfaction is another. i have seen several articles (including a german auto rag) where japanese vehicles are among the top 10 in europe in OWNER SATISFACTION.
considering the reliability of euro brands actually lags american brands now, japanese reliability makes even more of an impression there than here.
and of course, as mentioned, size and fuel efficiency are major factors there. so american cars are not as popular. i'd suspect japanese cars rank FAR higher in sales there than american cars.
one of the surprises is suzuki CARS are rated higher in europe than here in the u.s.
"Despite having four of the most acclaimed car manufacturers in the world – BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and Volkswagen – it seems the Germans are most satisfied with Japanese cars. In a recent study by JD Power and Associates, Toyota, Honda, Mazda, and Subaru made up the four most satisfying brands to own.
Toyota models also ranked highest in four of the seven individual vehicle segments, with Mazda and Volvo taking the other categories
The top cars in each of the seven market segments are:
Small car - Toyota Yaris
Lower medium - Toyota Corolla
Upper medium - Mazda6
Executive/luxury - Volvo V70
Sports car - Mazda MX-5
MPV - Toyota Corolla Verso
SUV - Toyota RAV4
Actually, Ford does sell the Explorer in Japan- in very limited quantities to people who can afford the exhorbitant fuel and parking costs for it.
I would gamble that, altho many lost auto jobs are partially due simply to lost market share, even before the loss, that the automakers simply had too many workers on staff, simple "union featherbedding and bloating"...getting down to a lean building force, while maybe not good for the displaced worker, may be good for the company...sadly, the workers job probably never should have been created in the first place, but such is market economics...
Sometimes the company, which specializes in auto sales trends, takes a Toyota Camry, removes any identifying logos, and tells them it's a new model from one of the U.S.-based auto makers. Or it takes a domestic car and tells them it's a Toyota or another import make.
Either way, the result is the same. "If they think it's an American car, the perception of the vehicle falls dramatically," said Art Spinella, vice president of the Bandon, Ore.-based firm. "Detroit really gets a bum rap in the U.S."
Detroit Auto Makers Try Some New Tricks (WSJ - subscription only link)
There was something back in the 90s about (GM) having taken a car with no ID and having import-lovers test it. They liked it because they thought it was their favorite brand. It's sort of like politics, even the current Presidential candidate group. Some people are predecided.
In various GM groups I and others have said that if the same car were from one of the foreign brands it would be touted and praised by folks; but from GM all they look for is something they can say that car doesn't have, and if only it would have that they "might" look at the car but since it doesn't have that feature or perceived quality, it's JANG (just ain't no good).
A prime example would be the Aztek. Look at Aztek then Element then xB.
But some folks just aren't open-minded about cars. They don't understand that flaw numbers have centered around a high quality level with a small standard deviation for many cars. I see Toyo even tried to extend the quality difference perception, misperception, by saying they continually improve their cars even now. I wonder if that includes their transmission/powertrain problems through the Avalon, ES, and Camry models in the Toyota lineup? Toyo has fought hard to admit problems in the Camry version.
And that leads us back to what would be a huge blowup in media touting problems if that were to have been a GM car, oh say the Impala. That's what it means to "buy American" in that despite improvements in quality, they still are perceived as lesser in quality to some imaginary, ideal concept about all foreign branded cars.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The Pontiac JANG does have an interesting ring to it.
Car companies, like people, have to live with the reputations that they have earned.
And for all of the "the domestics have cut the quality gap with Toyota" mantra, I note that the only domestic cars that consistently top all reliability surveys are Buicks and Lincolns, both of which are bought largely by senior citizens who only see the far side of 65 mph if they fly to their destination.
They also aren't exactly known as marques featuring new, cutting-edge technology or the latest drivetrains. If GM hasn't had the bugs worked out of that ancient 3.8 V-6 and four-speed automatic transmission by now, it needs to get into another business.
Every independent mechanic I ask tells me the same thing - Honda and Toyota really are tops for reliability. The domestics are getting better - particularly Ford, now that it has canned the awful 3.8 V-6 - but still haven't toppled the current champs, no matter what Bob Lutz or anyone else says.
I want our domestic industry to be a source of pride, too. But that goal won't be achieved through either press releases, or whining. They've made good progress, but more work needs to be done.
GM, for example, needs to build a Cobalt that shows the same level of care and attention to detail that it has put into the Corvette and new Cadillac CTS.
Do you realize just how many of today's new car buyers weren't even BORN in 1964?
No one would care if it was the toy industry, but a car is about the second largest purchase anyone makes in their lifetime, and often multiple purchases over many years...
An unmarked Vega or Pinto or Yugo may look nice in the showroom, but opinuions would change when you told them they were sitting in a Vega, Pinto or Yugo, as images of the automaker's reputation start to cloud the mind...they are starting to think of how soon the car will break down, how much difficulty they will have getting the dealer to fix it, how soon will they have to replace it (100K or 200K miles)...
Despite sludge problems with Toyo, they still have an overall rep for quality that GM/Ford will spend YEARS trying to match and overcome, and I will bet they NEVER will, simply because 20-30 years of crap creates long memories in the minds of buyers and also the buyers kids as they grow up and ask adults what cars are good...
The Big 3 simply took all their goodwill from WWII and arrogantly blew it over the next 40-50 years, and now they are whining that nobody believes them...and, LIKE IT OR NOT, THE UAW SHARES THE BLAME OR CREATED THE BLAME, but once a buyer knows union labor built it, there is often, not always, a sour taste in their mouth...
Since union labor is only one variable, it is not the whole picture...but it is the pink elephant in the room that the Big 3 and the UAW itself do not want to draw attention...
Like it or not, the union has earned itself a poor rep, reagrdless of wether the designers designed a poor car for them to build...the nonunion labor of the imports in TN, KY, etc. does not have that albatross around their neck, and therefore receive the PRESUMPTION of good quality...
Feel free to live in the 60s, 70s, 80s or even 90s. Many others are well on the way to the 21st century and beyond.
If in 20 years Toyota becomes the GM in the 80s and GM becomes the Toyota as of today then I'll have no problem buying GM.