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I want to see ACTION, not TALKS.
To give credit when credit is due, I do think GM is working hard to fix the damages it has done. The most recent entries are all honest efforts IMO.
后视镜贴的钻钻和我最- 最爱的ＨＥＬＬＯＫＩ- ＴＴＹ西西^_^
Ｃ计划图片（已完- 成）
5月28日车车已经从ġ- 00;房出来了,正在安装玻- 827;和内饰
下面是我最喜欢的- 引擎盖,实物真的是超级- ;漂亮的喜欢死了呢,好ࡤ- 7;爱,我想在高速上如果ó- 20;引擎盖修车的话可能Ê- 50;引起交通事故吧.嘿嘿^_^
5月３０日手机拍的- ;我家欧欧，明天就去上- ;身份了明天还要改轮毂- ;和换扁平轮胎大号的
下面是操控台的钻- 钻细节以及后视镜上的- 贴钻
新赔付的大灯之前- 的有点松了
D计划图片(已完成ᦂ- 2;月４日图片更新）
我和哥哥的车车合- 照
车尾的细节限量的- ＨＥＬＬＯＫＩＴＴＹ- 车标，做工很细致是正- 版货，颜色也很闪，另- 外candy是我的英文名车子- 0340;拉花还在寻找中......
下面是轮胎和轮毂- ，米齐林的扁胎胎，换- 的比原车大的轮毂了，- 所以胎要换成扁的咯，- 真闪真好看
我最爱的ＨＥＬＬＯＫ- ＩＴＴＹ
杯架，太阳能摇摇- 乐，日本限定草莓熊的- ＫＩＴＴＹ，帽子可以- 拿下来，超可爱～
<img src="http://w
Go, Granny! Go, Granny! Go, Granny, Go!
http://web.wenxuecity.com/BBSView.php?SubID=auto&MsgID=227380
She's hot, too bad she has no taste...
Also, as you noted, they may have listened to their parents' horror stories of bad cars from years past.
The flip side is that they may have heard their parents praise their Hondas or Toyotas, and see no reason to switch.
But I think you and your girlfriend are the exceptions, not the rule, among Buick owners when it comes to driving habits.
True story - my friend (without any prompting my me - I swear) said, "I hate getting behind any Buick. I know it will be slow trip!"
Heck, if imports are all that, why trade them at all? If a Toyota Camry is as good as all the fanboys say, I should be able to get one to last for 50+ years.
Uh, how about it's maybe they want something newer or something different...
I personally would like a new car every 5 years.
Not all the people drive their cars until wheels fall off you know...
Honda the tan on top? Dodge the ugly black hard plastic on bottom?
While their product has certainly improved (despite my rantings, I do own a Ford and a Dodge) the Japanese invasion, which pretty much came on strong in the early 1980s, built a strong rep for quality and longevity while the Big 3 were maing junk in the 80s and 90s...
The Japanese had the PERCEPTION of constantly improving their very good cars, while the Big 3 seemed to learn the phrase "quality control" only when we deserted them in droves because of the junk they made...
For those who still drive their 1980s Big 3 autos, testifying to the quality of their vehicles, the plain undisputable fact is that a large portion of the buying public must have had a different experience, because imports now have about 50% of our market, and that ain't due to gov't mandate, it is due to choosing vehicles that they believe are better...
The Japanese have a rep for quality, like it or not, and it is theirs to lose...
The Big 3 do NOT have a rep for quality (like they used to years ago) and it is a shame that they SQUANDERED their reputation with their arrogance and are now playing catch-up, have been for almost 2 decades, and will continue for another 2 decades until we, the buying public, REALLY think that their cars are that good...
You know the old saying...it takes years to build a rep based on trust, and a day to kill it...while it did not take a day for the Big 3 to kill it, YEARS worth of junk has diminished our trust in them, someone else came in and provided what seemed to be a better vehicle, and now Big 3 are standing out in the cold, asking us to trust them again...
For many who were burned with multiple Big 3 "boat anchors" that trust may be impossible to regain...
No, I think they feel like Camcords are old fuddy-duddy cars (and to an extent, they would be right). Toyota got so fuddy-duddy they had to invent Scion to get kids into showrooms.
Even the Civic is doing better with baby-boomers that the gen-x and ys (or old folks buying it for their kids).
Thanks, but note the quotes. That was lifted straight from the Wall Street Journal article.
Shave the logos off most of today's cars though, and my guess is that most of the car buying public would have a hard time identifying the make/model.
It's kind of like cable TV. There is only so much of the pie to go around. The more channels that go on air, the ratings become smaller for everybody.
Then Saturn came into being and GM killed Oldsmobile.
Not really sure what you are arguing because both AMC and Olds were almost exclusively rebadges of some other brand by then anyway.
20 yrs ago, Olds and Plymouth were still selling hundreds of thousands of units. Even as rebadges, one style can appeal significantly more than another. We can't underestimate that.
I dunno if it has a marketing term, but that Honda texture is what I call "elephant grain"...looks a bit like elephant skin. My 2000 Intrepid uses that texture. When the 300C/Magnum, and then the Charger were introduced, they started using that stuff with the ickier texture, that looks more like what they used in the 70's and 80's.
I think Chrysler is also the worst of the "domestics" these days when it comes to interior quality. GM seems to have made massive strides in the past couple years, as has Ford. Chryslers actually seemed to go DOWNHILL, though!
I think comparing something like a 2007 Accord to a 2007 Impala would yield closer results. Heck, put a 2007 Impala or 500 er I mean Taurus up against a Nissan Altima, and the domestics might actually look better! I mean, I like the Altima, but Nissan interiors are traditionally nothing to rave about. It's like they blow their wad on the nice engines and drivetrains, but then there's just nothing left for the interiors.
By 1988, Plymouth was down to the Horizon (~62K units sold), Sundance (~89K), Reliant (~125K), Caravelle (~17K) and Gran Fury (~11K). And the Voyager minivan (sorry, my old car book only lists car sales, not truck).
Now Plymouth was a lot worse with badge engineering than Dodge. I had a 1989 Gran Fury. The only differences between it and a Diplomat were that the Fury had blackout trim on the taillights, versus gray for the Dodge, but the Dodge had blackout trim on the grille, compared to gray on the Plymouth! Dodge used a slightly different seat fabric, and the little metal buckles in the seat pattern were different. But that's it. But basically, a Plymouth was just there to get you in the door so that the salesman could upsell you into a Chrysler.
At least Olds made more effort to differentiate their cars. They'd often have different dashboards than other GM cars, and the sheetmetal, plastic trim, front and rear fascias, etc, were often just different enough that while they looked similar, they wouldn't interchange.
Personally, I think dropping Plymouth was a bad idea. The Voyager used to be the top selling minivan. As the Chrysler Voyager though, it sold poorly, and was soon dropped. Now Town & Country sales and Caravan sales went up a bit, but TOTAL minivan sales did go down. Similarly, when the Plymouth Neon was dropped, the Dodge variant did not pick up the slack. And after the Plymouth Breeze was dropped, the Sebring sedan didn't pick up its slack.
Once Plymouth was gone, Chrysler seemed to move downscale. The 2001 Sebring sedan seemed more like what a Plymouth should be than a Chrysler. And the base model of the Chrysler 300 is really a Plymouth to me. And not even a nice one, like a Fury. Maybe a Savoy. Belvedere at best. :P
In many ways, it seems like the K-car was a double-edged sword. It was Chrysler's salvation at the time, but it really caused them to lose their soul. When the same platform is used to make everything from an Aries/Reliant or Sundance/Shadow on up to a New Yorker, 5th Ave, and even an Imperial, there's only so much variation they can make between the cars.
At least with GM there was a world of difference between a Cavalier and a Cadillac. Oh, wait, maybe that's not the best example.
Back in 1997 when I was looking for my first new car, I was open to buying anything, test driving cars like Intrigue, Passat, Accord, Maxima and Grand Prix. I could not believe what the Pontiac had to offer for the price which was comparable (actually more than some). I got inside the car, and got out. There was no need to test drive it. I just did not feel at home in it. Eventually, of course, I got to drive many of those, as rentals. And they made sense in that regard, not something I would own.
Among the imports, Nissan does fall short, but I don't think Toyota interiors are that hot anymore outside of a Lexus. Honda interiors look better while VW has the best among the low-priced imports.
Now she has moved down here to Georgia, and when we asked her what kind of car she wants, she blurted out, without a moments hesitation, Lexus...when we asked why, she said that she rode in a few friend's Lexuses in NY, and had never seen a nicer car in her life...when we asked about another Caddy, she just laughed...
So, among the older crowd, whether justfified or not, she does not even want to LOOK at an updated Caddy, she wants a Lexus...it ain't the advertising, it was riding in them that changed her mind...
If that happens to too many seniors, Caddy and Town Car will continue to lose sales...
I obviously realize that my statistical sample is rather small, but I do see a number of obvious seniors behind the wheels of Lexus on the road, and every Lexus sale is a lost sale to Caddy and Lincoln, customers that I would bet will NEVER return to the Big 3...
BTW, with Toyota sales matching or exceeding GM worldwide, will the Big 3 become defined as Toyota, GM and Ford???
www.topgear.com/content/carsurvey/2006/
And if they are, what does that make Ford and Chevy, let alone Pontiac and Buick? Let's face, Buick doesn't appeal to much of anyone under the age of 60 anymore, and Pontiac doesn't appeal to much of anyone, aside from the buyers at Hertz and Alamo.
Toyota is so fuddy-duddy they had to invent a new car line to get kids to look at them. Honda at least puts an effort into sport, but they are now too big.
And if they are, what does that make Ford and Chevy, let alone Pontiac and Buick? Let's face, Buick doesn't appeal to much of anyone under the age of 60 anymore, and Pontiac doesn't appeal to much of anyone, aside from the buyers at Hertz and Alamo.
Oh I am definitely not saying I am ready to go buy a G6 (it would be more likely a Fusion if I didn't have an Accord) and call it a day, but a bland mid-size sedan is a bland-midsized sedan - there is nothing about the Accord that screams young and hip (although the Camry seems to say "middle-aged lady." Its a fuddy-duddy car. I actually disagree about the Pontiac though, it seems to be very popular - well, common anyway - among the younger folks. There are a lot of them in the HS and college parking lots (even in CA I found that to be the case).
I had a chance today so I stopped at the local Toyota dealer. I had visited Honda a few months back and was unimpressed with the Accord interior and the Civic's interior, which was better than the Accord in re targeting the demographic of the potential buyer.
The Camry still left me cold when I sat in it. Although it has lots of backseat legroom I believe the seats are not nearly as comfortable as my LeSabre seats are.
The tC gets less gas mileage than either of my LeSabres and is much smaller. The xB gets less and is roomier. I was tempted to drive one. The Corolla is claustrophobic, almost as bad as the Yaris.
I can browse in most showrooms withouta salesman breathing down my back like a Siamese twin. I'll stop at another Toyo dealer, and I hope I can just browse and think. How do you get rid of a salesman of that type?
Laugh of the day: The $620 is $20 documentation fee and $600 for unpacking the car to paraphrase the salesman.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Size is largely a fuddy-duddy criteria. Very few 16-25 or -30 year olds care how big the car is, they are more likely to want something small and fun. Once the kid fits in there, that is the extent of their worry about size. Yes there are exceptions, but if kids want something big they want an SUV not a Town Car.
Your point is good. I recall my service manager pointing to a car in for service and commenting that the age group you mention cares only about transportation from A to B. They don't service a car and then things go really bad from lack of service.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
link title
The S2000 got the top spot but look at all the Skodas in the top 10.
The XJ6/8 rounded out the list in the 10th spot.
I don't think that is the case either. A car can be a for of expression for that age group and it is the most expensive thing they typically have. They want a vehicle that they feel expresses themselves and portrays an image they are looking for. Of course, with limited funds, they have to balances the perceived wants/needs with resources (which is why CD players were standard on cars before ABS).
I think what is important to that age group is very different then what is important to other demographics.
They don't service a car and then things go really bad from lack of service.
That has more to do with immature, spoiled or careless kids not taking care of something than the buying practices of the group.
Well the Enclave seems to be getting buyers under 60 years old.
I don;t think Nissan interiors look that bad for the most part in 2007 but the 2002-2004 Altima interior was horrible and very cheap looking but Nissan did do an interior refresh on the 05 Altima which was a mid cycle refresh and the interior looked alot better on the 05 Altima that it did on the 02-04 versions. The 04 Maxima interior was not a thing of beauty either but Nissan did correct the interior on the Maxima for the 07 model year and it looks alot better now than it did on the 04-06 Maxima versions. The Pathfinder that I sat in in 2004 had horrible interior plastics and I think it was either the 04 or 05 newly-redesigned Pathfinder it had a horrible interior so I wonder if the plastics in the Pathfinder are improved over the 04 or 05 model.
When did Toyota(outide of Lexus)ever have great looking interiors except for the first 2 generation Avalons(95-99 and 00-04.)I thnk the 92-96 Camry had a great looking interior too. I mean I looked at a 87-91 Camry it was ok but nothing outstanding I mean the plastics seem to fit right but the plastics were not rich if you know what I mean.
The coupe - especially the V-6 six speed version - is a youthful car, and is sought after on the used car market for the "tuner" crowd. Nothing fuddy-duddy about that.
lilengineerboy: I actually disagree about the Pontiac though, it seems to be very popular - well, common anyway - among the younger folks. There are a lot of them in the HS and college parking lots (even in CA I found that to be the case).
Those are former rental cars bought by mom and dad for junior or missy. The primary driver of those purchases is price.
A co-worker did this a few years ago when she bought a used Oldsmobile Alero (former rental) for her daughter before she went to college. She bought it because it was cheap and available, not because it was youthful or sporty.
There is no aftermarket for the Accord. That is what drives the tuner crowd. If they had wanted it to appeal to tuners, they definitely wouldn't have gone with the low-level audio system that incorporates the entire center stack facia. You can't even get real tires for the 4 cylinders without up-sizing the wheels. The Civic is the tuner choice, the Accord is for the the parents of the tuners.