Lincoln MKS

brucelinc

One of my local dealers has 3 MKSs. Two are base cars with only the technology package and the MSRP is $39,580. They are listed on their website for $37,539. The 3rd one is loaded and it just says "call for special price." When dealers have more in stock, I imagine these cars could be bought for close to invoice.

nvbanker

My dealer finally put three of them out today, so I wheeled in and drove a black one. Must admit, I was pleasantly surprised. It's actually quieter than my Lexus LS430 inside, much less road noise, has a kick-butt air conditioner, and nicely cooled seats. I like how it sat and felt - the seat cushion could be an inch longer, but it's not a deal breaker. The back seat room is adequate, not as cavernous as my Lexus is, but adequate. The trunk opening is pathetic, it's true. You can get 2 or 3 bodies in there, but it's gonna take some joseling to move them around in there. IMO, Black is the color it looks best in, wasn't impressed with the white and the silver, faggetaboutit, couldn't even see it.

Loved the steering wheel, the leather feels as good as the Lexus and the features were outstanding. Oscillating center vents is all my Lexus had over the car feature wise. Power seemed adequate, but not extraordinary. I assume the eco-boost will be better, but it was ok.

All in all - I'm going to consider one. Sure, it's no Lexus, but it's one third the price too. We'll see what they want to lease one to me for. I had no complaints of any consequence in this car. The biggest drawback it's going to have, is the name. Lincoln has degraded themselves so far now, there's not much panache left in owning a Lincoln, whereas the Lexus commands respect. It's a big step in the right direction though.

marsha7

Silver doe not look good???...I thought almost any car looked good with silver exterior and black or gray interior...

jeyhoe

"It's no Lexus?" But is it a Buick?

"It's one-third the price of your Lexus?" What, the Lexus is over $120,000???

Another "big step in the right direction"? To be soon followed by two steps backwards no doubt. I give you the Lincoln version of the Ford Escape soon to replace the Mercury Mariner. You wont even have to rewrite your review. It wont be a Lexus either. Probably not even a Kia, according to Consumer Reports.

[Deleted User]

Funny how different reviews are. Many people have mentioned the car is very quiet, yet kenb757 complained of road noise and brucelinc of engine noise and tire noise. Different folks notice different things.

brucelinc

Thanks for the report, NV! I have never driven an LS series Lexus. A Lexus dealer would probably take one look at me and send me to a Toyota store! Glad to hear your comments about the quietness. That is something that appeals to me and it seems they really put some effort into it.

As for the colors, I was also kind of disappointed in the Silver. My LS is silver and it seems a bit brighter than the MKS version. Few will agree with me but I am not a fan of the new tuxedo black. It sort of looks like black with a layer of dust on it to me. I prefer the old fashioned jet black clearcoat but that is not an option. I find the white chocolate to my liking.

You are right about Lincoln's lack of panache. This car will have to sell on features/benefits and not on it's name.

brucelinc

Let me clarify my comments on the engine noise and tire noise. The engine noise is only noticeable under heavy acceleration. Cruising or light to moderate acceleration is quiet. Also, the tire noise I mentioned was on a newer concrete freeway. Here in Minneapolis, they cut grooves in some of the these concrete freeways to help with winter driving traction. That is where the tire noise was pretty intense. On other freeways or asphalt roads, the car is quiet even with the 19" Eagle RS-A tires which are not known for being a particularly quiet tire.

brucelinc

Isn't it time for you to take your meds and go to bed? You will have a brighter outlook in the morning!

Jeyhoe, I know you don't like FWD cars but the new Mazda 6 looks like a winner. Same HP as an MKS and it weighs 600 pounds less. It can be had with a lot of luxury goodies and is more than $10,000 less than an MKS. It sounds like they have really refined it, too, but kept the zoom-zoom factor. Will this be the basis for the 2010 MKZ? If so, that model might finally become relevant.

[Deleted User]

The Mazda engine is reportedly smoother. It's a sharp looking car, quite a bit lower than the MKS, but still having lots of interior room.

jeyhoe

"Isn't it time for you to take your meds and go to bed? You will have a brighter outlook in the morning! "

HAHA. I did and now I'm back at it again and ... looks like another day, SOS.

New Mazda 6 does look good. And ain't it great that once a 2nd-tier 1/2 Japanese car company (or 1/2 Swedish for that matter) redesigns a car and chassis that we can start looking forward to a new 1/4 American "luxury" car based on it? But in a year? That would impress me.

Still can't fathom why you dont have a Jag XF in your garage though bruce? Why another D3? Why not something with some real panache? And a V8? For just a bit more $$$?

nvbanker

"It's one-third the price of your Lexus?" What, the Lexus is over $120,000???
Oops, mean it's 2/3s the price of my Lexus.....

"It's no Lexus?" But is it a Buick? No, it's better than a Buick. I'd say it's a solid ACURA RL.

[Deleted User]

But pudgier...

gent70360

Anyone compare the ride of the MKS and the taurus or sable back to back? I am interested in any comments. I am giving some thought to stepping down to the sable because of the fold down rear seats and the larger trunk opening on the sable. I suspect that the ride may be softer, which for me will be a plus.

Of course, the trade in value down the road will be worse for the sable.

marsha7

The trade in for a Sable will be less, but you would probably pay many 1000s less when you bought it new...

Or, wait until the 2010 comes out, and pick up a one year old MKS that dropped to $18,500 and let the OTHER guy who bought at MSRP take the hit...

speculator

The Taurus and Sable have a softer ride than the MKS. The MKS' rear suspension has a four link set-up and reconfigured spring and shock placements. This is to give the car a more controlled ride to increase the cars handling abilities. The Taurus and Sable do not have these features. The best advice is that you should test drive one of these vehicles. If interested in a Towncar ,see if a dealer has one in stock or if the dealer can find you one to your specs. I love sport sedans, but my pop loves his Towncar. My opinion is that the MKS could be a better sport sedan.My pop's opinion is that it doesn't ride as well as his Towncar.It would have been great if Lincoln had produced a rear wheel drive car with a reliable intelligent electronic suspension that could be easily programmed to the individual drivers specs. I hope you find a vehicle that you'll enjoy.

brucelinc

We own a 2008 Taurus and it rides softer than an MKS - at least it does when the MKS is equipped with the 19" wheels. The MKS is more controlled. A loaded Taurus or Sable can be bought at a very attractive price - under invoice.

With NAV and SYNC on a Sable, you have some toys to play with but not quite to the level of the MKS. You would not get the heated rear seat or cooled front seats if that is important to you. The MKS is a bit quieter but the Taurus/Sable are excellent in that regard, too. Other than appearance, I would say a loaded Sable is 90% as much car as an MKS for 2/3 the price. As Gregg will tell you, the Taurus and Sable are a hideous blight on society in terms of looks. The MKS is only pudgie.

gent70360

Drove the MKS with the 18 inch wheels this afternoon, and had a chance to compare it side by side with a sable. The ride is just fine with the 18 inch wheels, so no problem there. The trunk opening is not that much larger on the sable, maybe just 2 inches vertically. So not that much difference really. The MKS just blows the sable away in the looks department. The wife took one look at the two cars side by side for less than 10 seconds and the sable is out. She likes the tuxedo black with the cashmere interior. The sales guy (same one I have bought from since 1996) told me that to get the nav and tech packages and NOT the ultimate (to get it loaded but with 18 in wheels), they will have to special order. It is not a combination they will stock. btw, they have only sold 2 MKS's so far, not counting the 5 or 6 on order.

I forgot to check on this. Does the seat AC come on at startup IF it was left on when the car was last turned off? I would expect the car AC to behave this way. Just not sure about the seat AC. It is relevant to me because I will be getting the remote start. Down here in the south where it is soooooo hot and humid, I really appreciate the extra 30 seconds of AC before I step into the car. I would like the seats to get a little head start on cooling as well. I am in the habit of remote starting the car as I walk up to it. I do know that the rear defroster does NOT behave in this fashion on my current car. I would guess it would be the same on the MKS for the rear window defroster.

The salesman did not know if the remote start is available with the tech package and push button start, since every remote start system he has seen before requires an ignition key turn before driving. Can anyone answer this?

marsha7

Does the Taurus or Sable, by chance, have a "handling package" option that, for another $50, adds different springs, shocks, and stiffer front and rear sway bars???...usually handling packages are so cheap because the difference in the components cost is minimal, yet the effect can be dramatic, like a 7/8" sway bar instead of a 1/2" bar...

datagen

I think there is a lot of comparisons in the apples and oranges category. First, how can anyone compare a Taurus or a Sable on ride when the MKS just came out? Do a comparison with two vehicles with approx the same amount of mileage. Even though the frame and few other things were based upon the Taurus, I believe the similarities are reduced from there on especially when you talk about 600 additional pounds and a longer body style. Of course a new vehicle will ride a littler rougher and be tighter until it is broken in.

Now on the looks, I guess it is the same like everything else. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. When it comes to looks, I am glad I got my Taurus before the body change. Lets be a little fair everyone and give the MKS some time till at lease someone says they have a MKS with at lease 25-30 thousand miles on it.

speculator

I don't believe so. Try fordvehicles.com. If you want to wait about 16 months to purchase a new vehicle,Ford will -at least for now- introduce a Fusion GT. Supposedly an Audi S4 fighter at a better price.

speculator

Compare the ride on a new Taurus and Sable to that of a new MKS . The new Taurus/Sable have a softer ride. Now we are comparing new car to new car

brucelinc

Good point, speculator. Also, the preview car that I originally drove had over 3000 miles on it. That is a pretty valid comparison to our Taurus with 8000. What was probably not valid was that the MKS had 45 series tires while our Taurus has 60 series - much more cushion in the sidewall of the tires on the Taurus. Next week, I am going to drive an MKS with the 55 series 18s.

I also again want to stress that the car I drove with 3000 miles was much peppier and stronger in acceleration than the one I drove with only 43 miles. The engines loosen up and the transmissions also have an adaptive feature that makes them behave better with more mileage.

nvbanker

On my Lexus, the seat coolers stay set if you leave them on. On my former Navigator, ditto. However, on the new system Ford uses, I don't think they do. However, I will state unequivacally that the Ford seat coolers are superior to anybody elses in the business, and far superior to the ones on my Lexus. That wouldn't be a deal breaker for me, and I also live in two hot locations, Florida and Las Vegas, NV. I understand your pain.

jeyhoe

Talking about Mulally here. Has anyone else read the Autoexremist this AM? It appears that tomorrow will bring a HUGE announcement from Ford regarding future product for the USA. Think SMALL. Think EUROPE. And think MERCURY.

Back from the dead, Mercury will be the major player for Ford in bringing new Euro-products to the American market. Scorpio anyone? XR4Ti? Capri? Merc has a history of this. Perhaps this time there's real committment to stay with it for the long term.

This could be the ticket for Ford, AE certainly thinks so. Imagine LM dealerships with actual product diversity. From and MKS or T to a small, sporty Mercury Capri? Mulally seems to be on the right track. Time will tell but as always, I wish him luck. At least this is a MUCH better idea than renaming the 500/Montego twins. And I eat crow tomorrow for predicting Mercury's demise.

[Deleted User]

I must say the crow we share seems rather tasty. It makes no sense, but I am really pleased that Mercury will be saved.

jeyhoe

Yeah, I like mine deep-fried.

It may be quite difficult to redefine Mercury as the brand of choice for small econo-boxes etc. Hopefully that wont be all they'll sell. Products like the XR4Ti and Capri (the German one) added lots of cachet to the brand decades ago, but the cachet was, as usual with Ford, squandered. Again, one can only hope that THIS time they'll do it right. They may even get boomers and liberals to look at Mercury if they stress that these are Euro-Mercs and not American cars. They could ask Jill to grow leg and armpit hair to emphasize the European connection! :shades:

I just hope they come up with a better tag line than "New doors opened"

[Deleted User]

New doors and everything else.

displacedtexan

I saw my first MKS in the wild today, being driven out of a hospital parking lot. It was the cream color, which I decided later didn't look as good as the dark colors but nice enough. Unfortunately, it was being driven not by Lincoln's hoped-for demographic but by their traditional demographic. Oh, well. They're the ones with the money, and someday soon I'll be part of that demographic.

Anyway, I dropped by my nearby LM dealership. They had a Tuxedo Black AWD, loaded, already sold. They also had two others that I got to sit in and play with the buttons. Since they were parked outside, and it's 100F, I didn't linger, but here are my initial impressions.
1) I like the looks, even the rear taillights that don't match anything else in the current Lincoln lineup. Yes, the profile may be a bit generic, kind of Infinity M, but I think overall it works. I like the Lincoln stars on the front fenders.
2) The door handles didn't have a satisfyingly weighty feel, like my LS or my wife's Volvo S70. The doors closed with a decent "thunk" though.
3) The trunk is huge. I think buyers might notice the high liftover before the narrow opening, which didn't seem that bad to me, anyway.
4) The inside was nice. Fit and finish seemed tight. Most bits felt substantial. The black center stack is better than the "metallic" look of my LS. I did think the covers for the cup holder and other opening were kind of flimsy.
5) I was disappointed by the hard, hollow sounding bit of plastic in front of the passenger on the dash - perhaps the cover for the airbag?
6) Rear sight lines seemed kind of restricted. I'll pay attention to that when we test drive one.
Overall, I liked the looks. Front wheel drive doesn't bother me, or won't bother my wife, whose driver this will be. She drives like a granny. It's definitely on the short list of prospects, if we decide we want to pony up that much money.

gent70360

Anyone get a chance to check the mpg display at speed? In other words, on cruise control at say 55 or 60 mph, when you reset the average mpg display, what does it show? Wouldn't it be more convenient if the display was instantaneous? One wouldn't have to keep resetting it to see what it is doing at any one time and messing up the longer average which might be useful. Oh, but they give us multiple timers and multiple trip odometers.

speculator

It's likely that the Navigator will be discontinued with the Expedition.Pick ups and other SUV will see production cuts. Also , the days of the V8 are waning. All of future Ford auto vehicles will be four or six cylinder. Rear wheel drive has been abandoned for its autos in the U.S because of CAFE and cost of limiting weight of an rwd platform . This means there isn't going to be a Crown Vic replacement or Lincoln Premium sedan. One can understand discontinuing rwd for Ford, but for Lincoln it's an entirely different thing. Those who would purchase a premium vehicle are not very gas price conscience. It's possible that the next Mustang will be based on the Falcon of Aus rwd platform .Or it may go fwd. The verdict is still out. It will not be available with an eight. Most of Ford's new fuel efficient products are going to be based from it's Euro operations.

speculator

I wonder if any of the auto manufacturers in this country know what they are doing. If the price of oil goes to around 80 dollars a barrel ,it would be interesting to see if any of these manufacturers sticks with making econobox models. Ford could produce full size autos that have better fuel economy even with V8's. GM and Chrysler use cylinder deactivation .I believe that Honda does also. Ford doesn't. Other manufacturers have motors with direct injection. Ford is about a yr behind in this regard. It would be wrong for Ford to believe that those who purchase premium makes are interested in 30 mpg cars .They would expect decent mpgs form their vehicles ,but not econobox type mpg.

If Lincoln is to gain its pass glory ,it's going to have to offer a premium rwd platform. Cadillac was in the same position as Lincoln is now. The difference is that Cadillac decided what is its competition and decided to create products to compete with them. Ford has to understand that Lincoln is a premium make and has to compete with other premium makes.Lincoln has to re-establish itself with the auto enthusiast Ford believes that Buick is its competition,it's going to get a big surprise when Buick makes the Veloit with RWD. The price of the Veloit will probably eclipse that of the MKS.I guess Lincoln's competition then will be Pontiac.

akirby

Mulally has already said Lincoln is going to get a new RWD platform and that hasn't changed despite the current gas situation. Full size SUVs aren't dead - they'll just be a much smaller part of the market.

akirby

I was shocked (pleased but shocked nonetheless) when Ford announced that the new 2.5L Fulans would TOP Accord and Camry fuel mileage and the Fulan hybrid would TOP the Camry hybrid also. That would be a HUGE step forward for Ford who has always lagged behind in FE.

Other notes - Ecoboost goes in the 2010 Taurus and 2010 MKT (both due mid next year) when they debut - no more waiting a year for the good engines.

With the 2010 Mustang due out next year also and no mention of any other RWD product plans I have to wonder if GRWD was put on the back burner to shift resources to this new effort? Since that's beyond 2010 I hope it simply wasn't announced but is still being worked with FoAU. If not - it's understandable - large RWD cars are not going to save the company.

[Deleted User]

Word is the RWD platform was scheduled for 2013 and may be moved back to 2014, or cancelled before then if the market so dictates. Meanwhile, work on the RWD platform continues. It has not been cancel-cancelled.

marsha7

"Ecoboost goes in the 2010 Taurus and 2010 MKT"

What is Ecoboost?

akirby

Used to be called TwinForce - direct injection 3.5L Twin Turbo - 340-350 hp.

brucelinc

We know the MKS will be the first to get Ecoboost. Allen, have you heard any date mentioned for that?

I cut the following from a newsletter that a dealer sent me:

In a brilliant introduction strategy, the 2009 Lincoln MKS does not arrive with a V8, but a 3.7-liter V6 with 273 hp and 270 lb/ft of torque mated with a six-speed automatic in front or all-wheel drive. There is a V8 in the wings, but Lincoln believes the blend of luxury and sensible power will appeal to Americans suffering from gas pump price shock.

Other than the blurb above, everything in the newsletter came out of Ford press releases.

nvbanker

Personally, I don't know how much I care about the number of cylinders, but I DO care about the reliability, NVH, efficiency and power output of the engine.

In 1992, I bought a Lincoln Continental, which had a 3.8L V-6 in it. My friend bought a Cadillac DeVille, which had a 4.6L V-8. We raced the cars, the Lincoln dusted the Cadillac badly.

As long as my MKS will keep up with a competitive car with a V-8, and not a Buick, BTW, then I wouldn't care. Turbo it, direct inject it, and we're probably fine.

brucelinc

As akirby says, the reference to a V8 was wrong. You would think that someone with a clue would proofread their stuff.

I used to be a V8 snob but I have changed my tune. Great advances have been made in V6 smoothness, sound, and power. I like the idea of the twin turbo V6. I am just trying to decide if I want to postpone my purchase of an MKS until it arrives. The current 3.7 non-turbo is adequate but it sticks in my craw that it is slower than all of the cars we would most likely compare with the MKS. The Ecoboost should remedy that little shortcoming.

Karen_S

The topic is MKS, not politics. Some posts have been removed.

[Deleted User]

Good work, Karen.

docrw

I wish George Soros could send me some money. I'm not that particular when it comes to things like that

Seriously, I think we have all learned our lesson about talking politics to faceless people on the internet. In real life we can have a beer and discuss these things knowing that we are both good people with different opinions. On the internet we only care about getting the last word in and proving that we're smarter than the other guy.

I know that I've been guilty of this on this very board and now I see it happening again. So I will try to do my best Henry Kissinger (party affiliations not withstanding) to try to bring about peace on this board. Hey, if you guys are both interested in the MKS then there must be something redeeming about each of you

The bottom line is that until beer is available online politics should be off-limits.

speculator

The lines that produce Navs and Expeditions are going to be converted to produce smaller cars. Think that The Nav and Epedition are long for this world? We'll see if Lincoln is going to produce a rear drive car, Ford has reported a lost of almost 9 billion dollars. With that type of lost I would expect that whatever future plan that it has for a Large RWD premium vehicle isn't on the short list. In fact, Mulally has asked the Gov to help develope electric vehicles by providing funds . Watch the Mulally interview on cnbc.com

speculator

If beer were available we all would be black and blue.Waiting to be bailed out of the clink.

displacedtexan

OT, but NBC news tonight was reporting on Ford's quarterly loss, and they mentioned that the more fuel efficient engines wouldn't be here until 2010, not that they would be here for the 2010 model year, which will likely debut less than a year from now, based on what others have said around here.

The evening news makes me so angry. They report half-baked info like that while touting Toyota's Prius as the car for today. It's like they want the domestics to fail.

Mini-rant over.

nvbanker

NBC has never been a friend of the domestic auto industry, this report shouldn't surprise but well may infuriate you.

hlee1947

I waited a long time for the MKS to arrive at the dealerships. I had owned a LS sport before. The MKS AWD Ultimate has let me down. At full throttle the AC compressor quits and hot air was blown in your face until the throttle was released. Poor performance, I will wait until a new engine comes out. Also the ride was not as good as the LS, although the seats were much better. All that Tech stuff, and the dealer spent a full 10 minutes trying to find out how the gas door opened, my daughter figured that on out as she owns a MKZ. The MKS needs some refinement to quiet it down and a better ride. I may consider a CTS or Volvo and I have been a Ford man all of my life. Please Ford start listening to your customers not just some designers. Listen to the common man. This Auto drove a lot like the Ford 500 AWD, which I did not like.

displacedtexan

That's why I rarely watch the evening news. I'd rather watch "The Simpsons."

[Deleted User]

Here's another instance where a car most people perceive as supremely quiet needs "refinement to quiet it down." It also shows how difficult it is to design in features that everyone will appreciate. The AC compressor cuts out under full throttle in order to provide maximum hp, and it probably saves a bit of gas as well. I can't imagine that most people will be driving under full throttle for more than a few seconds at a time. And if the AC has been on awhile, a brief cut-out won't produce any noticable warm air from the vents.

Just shows how one person's medicine is another's poison. BTW, if you want a better ride, insist on the 18" Comfortreads. 18 is still a large wheel, but it allows for a bit more sidewall.

brucelinc

I had owned a LS sport before.

Do you still have the LS? What year? I presume you have (or had) a 2003 or newer with the VVT engine. If so, I agree it would easily out perform an MKS. When you say the LS ride was better, are you saying the MKS is too soft or too firm for your liking? My experience so far has been that the MKS is similar to the non-sport LS in firmness but more compliant than the LS Sport.

The MKS has gotten kudos from about everyone for being quiet - except the engine is a bit loud under full throttle. The absence of other noises (on good roads) probably makes the engine seem noisier than in a car with more wind and road noise. When you say they need more refinement to quiet it down, are you referring primarily to the engine noise?

I personally think the A/C cut out at full throttle is a good thing. Like Gregg, it seems to me that you would have to hold it at full throttle for a good long time before the A/C blows warm air. The A/C coils stay cold for several seconds even without the compressor running. I sometimes turn the AC off a mile or two from home and it is still blowing cold air when I arrive. Of course, here in Minneapolis cool and warm mean different things than they do in the South.