I found no such article and even if it was there, it was nothing more than sheer speculation. There is NO evidence that Ford ever seriously considered any Jag platform for the MKS. As I stated before - the MKS was always supposed to be AWD and the Jag platform is RWD only AFAIK. Sheer speculation.
Dont wait for the end of the year - hear it now. Mercury is DEAD. Go ahead and tell Ford I said so. I'm one of the brands biggest fans so if I'll never buy one again, who will? Ford killed Mercury long time ago.
Now, as an exercise, everyone close your eyes and picture what a showroom Lincoln could have if they had brought another car, call it the MKLS based on the Jag XF. So maybe it would start at over 40K. It would hit an entirely different demogaphic that the S and voila Lincoln sales would double. It takes money to make money eh? (Repeat the exercise for a Mercury Cougar based on the Mustang.)
I was at my LM dealer today. Poked around the lot. No MKS in sight. Lots and lots of MKXes and MKZes. I opened an mkx, priced at $43,000, to confirm that my memory was not faulty. And yes, I remembered right - the door panels on this $43000 vehicle ARE hard plastic below a slim arm rest panel. When I got my loaner, a Kia Sorrento, I noticed it's door panels were practically identical - a slim arm rest and all hard plastic below. Though I think the rear end treatment of the MKX is very nice, I see absolutely NO reason to buy one. Crappy gas mileage and crappy materials. But I digressed again.
Why purchase a MKLS over a Jag XF? They would have to be close to the same price because they'd both be using a low volume platform and Jag based drivetrains (nothing larger than a 4.2L V8). So it's either compete head to head at the same pricepoint or decontent the MKLS like they did with the real LS so it doesn't compete. Neither sounds appealing to me.
Not to mention - if they did that where would they be right now with Jag being sold? Just doesn't make any business sense - but it would have been a stunning vehicle.
The answer is GRWD should have been started way back in 2000. Then we'd have a less expensive but just as capable RWD platform and we'd have the MKS, MKR plus a TC replacement already. And if Ifs and Buts were Candy and Nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas. Water under the bridge as they say.
According to Ford's press release about Junes sales, the MKS sold 385 units in June of this year. I hadn't even heard of any for sale yet. Has anyone here seen vehicles at dealerships for sale?
Ford only counts customer sales, not dealer orders. Or so we've been told.
I'm sure dealers rushed to get these into the sales books for June. Most of the early ones were presold anyway - certainly enough to make those numbers.
State Motors in New Hampshire had two in the showroom on June 20. I didn't get a chance to go by and see it yet, but was invited to a reception they had that week-end. Maybe this weekend I will get a chance to go by if they still have some. I don't see any on their website now.
Today was our dealer's unveiling of the MKS. It was an invite for a 6 pm event. There were 2 preproduction loaded cars with reps in attendance. As I drove up, I saw 2 MKS's on the delivery truck and I said to myself, "Oh, no, they got here late and they are not ready". But, it turned out to be good timing as these 2 cars were the first delivery of the dealer's stock. They unloaded them, fueled them and had them ready for test drives. I only got to go a few blocks. I can say this though, the ride is not as comfortable as my town car. The salesman explained that Lincoln was trying to compete with the European imports and was not trying to match the towncar. It did have the 19 inch wheels with the eagle tires. The 18 inch wheels have a different tire with a cushion layer of some sort. That and the little bit higher sidewalls might make the ride a little better. But one of the reps told me that I probably would not be able to tell the difference in a blind test drive of each.
I made sure each rep heard my disappointment with the instantaneous fuel economy bar graph display. I said, why not have a bar graph for the speedometer with a separate average speed display. You can always reset the average speed to find out how fast you are going at any one time. After all, the bar graph is much easier to read. Who wants to look at actual numbers. I think I made my point. To me, I want to be able to see the MPG at any one time as a numerical display without have to repeatedly reset the average MPG display. This can actually make people feel better about the car when they look down at say 45 MPH and see 30 MPG.
I regret forgetting to open the sunroof during the test drive. I am undecided on this option. On comparing the 18 vs. the 19 inch wheels, I find that the 19 inch ones seem to be a better match visually for the car. In other words, the 19 inch ones look better to me. Fashion is a funny thing.
Yes for now. If you look at the other luxury autos with V8 and RWD, they are not making the numbers that corporate expected. I think the Lincoln designers hit it right on the mark with the V6 and regular gas. Even those whom are better off will look at the economic sides of this vehicle. If they have strong orders (8600+ by last count), I doubt it would have been half that if it was strictly a V8. At least it would have been one order less, mine.
I can say this though, the ride is not as comfortable as my town car.
As I indicated in my earlier post, the MKS is firmer than many will expect. I thought it might seem a bit too firm for those used to a DTS or TC. However, I disagree with whoever told you that you couldn't tell the difference between the 18 and 19" tires. The 18s are "H" rated Goodyear Comfortreds that are specifically designed for ride compliance and quiet. You should try one with those tires before you decide. No matter what the tires, though, the MKS will be firmer that a TC. I think that is a good thing but it is a matter of individual preference.
Give the 18s a try. The MKS may be more firm than the TC, but I think you would find soon enough that the ride motions of the MKS are better and more comfortable overall than the TC is. (Too compliant can get rubbery/jittery over some surfaces.) Also, the MKS is noticably quieter than the TC. On top of that, with hitting sharp bumps, there is no comparison. The TC is ok for what it is, but the TC body structure is looser and more prone to clunks and shudders. It's an old (and fairly tired) design.
As with firm mattresses and seats, they seem worse at first until you get used to them, then you can't believe how you ever put up with the old ones and you'll never want to go back. Give it time and be open to change.
MKS basically a dressed up Taurus???...BTW, I drove a 2008 Taurus on Tuesday as a loaner, and I was impressed...roomy, good acceleration, nice audio, fairly ergonomic, just wish the lumbar support was power instead of manual...
I am interested in reading reviews of the mechanical reliability of the 2008 Lincoln MKS with AWD which I am considering buying. Can anyone point me in the direction of a good review of the 2008 model year and experience with it? Also, I'm interested in hearing about any mechanical issues with that model year for all wheel drive.
The MKS is a 2009 model and no one has any experience with them yet. If you are referring to an MKX or MKZ, there are owners on those boards which have experience. I think both of those models are very sound. Besides, you would have plenty of warranty with a 2008 model.
I attended another MKS preview party last night. The same cars and same Factory Rep was there that was at the event I attended last week, so I there was really nothing new.
At both events I attended, I was struck by the age of the attendees. I would say the average age was late 60s to early 70s. The visitor parking lots were filled with TCs, Continentals, and a few Zephyrs. My LS was the only one I saw. I listened to some of the comments made by the crowd and they were not particularly positive. The small trunk opening was a common criticism. One older lady asked why the gearshift was on the floor instead of the column.
Lincoln better not rely on their current customer base alone to make the MKS a success.
It's the same basic platform as the AWD Ford Five Hundred that debuted in 2005, so that would be your best bet for a comparison. I don't recall hearing any problems with the platform and based on Ford's recent track record reliability should be good if not excellent.
At least Lincoln is bringing their blue hair buyers back to the showroom. Too bad they're looking for another town car.
Lincoln had their chance to bring in a younger demographic. Anyone who ever attended an LS Mania event could see the demographic was far younger than typical Lincoln buyers. But ... they blew it plain and simple. They will always be the car for the blue hairs. Even if the blue hairs dont like the car, that's the market. Lincoln may as well get used to it. They made their bed, ...
What a shame. Even the LS, though it attracted some younger buyers, is most often seen with a peer of and often a look-alike to Mother Theresa behind the wheel.
At least Lincoln is bringing their blue hair buyers back to the showroom. Too bad they're looking for another town car. "
Jeyhoe, I take offense to what you said. You are using a stupid term with "blue hair buyers". I may have grey hair, but I deserve to be treated with respect. What exactly do you mean with the term "blue hair". Regarding the other issue. What is wrong with someone looking for a car to replace a towncar? What is wrong with someone who primarily cruises on the highway and wants a soft comfortable ride? Why do you think everyone wants or should want a firm ride or the ability to zip around corners fast? I don't think you should put people like me down.
I accept that different people have different desires regarding their choice of cars. It you want a car like the LS, fine. If I want a car that is an updated towncar, fine. Don't put me down for that. What Lincoln has done is compromise. The MKS is a car with interior room like the towncar, but has somewhat of a sporty firm ride.
As far as I know, the only people invited to the event were the dealership's best customers. No dealer in my area has advertised their MKS preview events. I don't know how non-Lincoln customers would have even known about the events. I got an invitation because I contacted all 3 local dealers to ask when they would have an MKS.
My point was that the MKS was not viewed by many attendees as a suitable replacement for their TCs. I think it will need to be viewed and driven by a completely different demographic to sell in good numbers.
jeyhoe I did not get it it. What is the point your are trying to make? When "blue hair crowd" was in charge America was the greatest country in the world, built the miracle of 20 century coast-to-coast freeway network in few years, put man on the moon in 8 years. Now with new BMW-driving "boomer-yuppi" generation in charge America is in state on self-inflicted paralysis and destruction,going down the toilet and becoming the laughing stock of the world. Autoextremist in his latest rant http://www.autoextremist.com/current/ summed it up pretty well. I feel nothing less than deep respect towards greatest “blue hair” generation and choices they make or made.
In the August issue of Motor Trend magazine, there is an article that gives a rundown of the new Nissan Maxima's performance . It states in the article that Nissan has all but eliminated torque steer during cornering by redesigning the car's drive-train. The article states that torque steer is only noticeable during hard cornering while giving the car maximum throttle. The Maxima also has a 290 HP engine. The car's list starts at around 29K .The MKS list at about 38 K. If Nissan could eliminate torque steer on a 29K, vehicle why couldn't Ford on a 38K vehicle? Any comments? Also the cheaper Maxima has a 290 HP engine V. the MKS' 273 HP engine. Also Ford introduced the Flex; so far those that have came into my Ford dealership to examine it believe that it's a SUV even-though Ford wants the sale staff to insist that it's more of a Taurus station wagon. Right now most clients are not interested in a SUV.Talk about introducing a new model at the wrong time
to you and 'gent..' Very sorry, no offense intended. I've got nothing but respect for the greatest generation and all that. And my only problem with blue hairs is that, unlike me, they have something up there to dye.
You are both right, folks like what they like. What I was trying to say is that Lincoln buyers' average age is quite high and they're always talking about lowering it, yet they cant seem to. THe vast majority of Lincolns I see are driven by people of the greatest generation shall we say. Except for Navigators. Younger marrieds with families often in them.
Lincoln tried to catch a younger audience with the LS. It didnt work. At least not in the numbers they had hoped for. Because they soon gave up on the LS, those of us who had bought into Lincoln's touted 'rebirth' back then feel burned. Very few of those LS folks have stuck with Lincoln as there's just no place to go. People like me who like an LS kind of car must go elsewhere. And many of us dont really want to and we are torqued at Lincoln. NOT at Lincoln buyers.
THe MKS is a nice looking vehicle. It's in a strange position - it has a, IMHO, real sporty, futuristic look to it and even has a Select-Shift transmission and soon? a powerful twin-turbocharged engine. Yet Lincoln's 'typical' buyers have no need for select-shift or turbo performance. So who is going to buy the thing? THose who want a rather sedate, BIG comfortable ride like the TC (with a big trunk and opening) are going to be disappointed. And those who want ecoBoost or similar are going to be in the Audi, BMW and Infiniti dealers and probably wont give the MKS a second thought. It's a tough row Lincoln has to hoe. I dont have the answer except to say, if they would stick with something and develop it into the best it can be, they may also find they've developed a long line of followers. But tossing something against the wall every few years and then watching as it slowly oozes down the wall into a big puddly mess and then walking away aint gonna make it.
Last, I read auto-extremist every week and his rant this week was perfect. America is sinking into a few factions of haters, who despise the rest of the American people even more than they do our sworn enemies. Is this any way to run a country? No. Look at what happened to Bush on July 4 just giving a short speech to new citizens. I encourage everyone to read that rant pointed to by savetheland.
And once again, it aint the buyers, it's the sellers I'm talkin bout.
I'm looking for a quiet car with a very smooth ride. Lincoln needs to realize that most of their customers can afford to buy a BMW or Infiniti if they want to feel every expansion joint in the road. Maybe the MKS should have driver adjustable suspension settings like the last iteration of the Continental. Other than that, Lincoln needs to get cracking on the next Town Car. The current Town Car owners may not move into the MKS when they may be better served by a Lexus, Mercedes, or even a DTS.
Drive the car aggressively. Power into a turn and out of a turn. Use the steering and throttle to avoid an obstacle. What has ford done to improve the drive train of this vehicle to eliminate the torque steer form this vehicle ? It still has the basic drive train of the Taurus. Did Ford equal the length of the cars half shafts? I examined the vehicle and they are similar to that of the Taurus.
You forgot to mention that Maxima has lost comparison test with new Pontiac G8 in the same issue of MT. It is not such a great driver's car as it claim to be. I drove last Nissan Maxima and it is kind of crude FWD muscle car. It lack refinment of true luxury car and even of Accord. Nothing compared to real RWD sport-sedans or even Audi A6. Audi is much more refined and much better FWD car than Maxima whatever Nissan claims in its propaganda messages. And comparing Maxima to Porche 911 is outright ridiculous. Sure that are staunch fans of Maxima, but same applies to other cars pseudo-sports cars, like Camaro or Mustang.
Regarding Lincoln - the fact that Lincoln is forced now to compete with Huydais of the world (think about technological superiority fo Huydai Genesesis compared to NA Ford based Lincolns) is the sad reflection of level of mediocrocity the modern America and its leadership had fallen into.
Until you can try that maneuver yourself there is no way you can know whether it will exhibit torque steer or not. You can't figure that out looking at the driveshafts.
Jeyhoe's comment may not have been sensitive, but he still makes an important point. Many of the oldest generation now (70s to end of driving age) may actually prefer a loosely sprung, large (but not efficient) vehicle. It is similar to what they have either driven or aspired to all their lives. But two things work against a new Town Car: the target of what is considered luxury and class has moved on, and this generation can only support Lincoln for a limited time if that.
There is a reason all other car companies have stopped selling loose structured, body on frame, solid rear axle cars. Almost no one but some old people, the livery trade and some taxi companies want them anymore. There are good reasons the clunky column shifter is all but gone. I see so many people drive their cars as if they might tip going around a corner, even though the car could take the corner at a higher speed without any braking and without any strain or discomfort to the passengers. Most older people drive as if they were still piloting the boats from the 1940s, 50s and 60s where you really did have to slow down to a crawl to turn left or a sweep to the right in the road.
Unnecesary braking wastes gas, and requires more acceleration afterward, but if people don't even begin to use the capability of their Town Cars, how is anyone to expect them to be interested in a car that can be driven even more smoothly at legal speeds on city streets?
Jeyhoe is pointing out that LIncoln has a real problem with its primary customer base. The MKS may not be received warmly by many TC owners, even though it is a vastly superior car to the TC. (Plus, the restricted opening to a very large trunk was a dumb move.)
The way the population is aging (and lifespans are getting longer), the Town Car demographic will never disappear, but will increase. Once seniors get over their mid-life crisis boy-racer stage, they might appreciate an updated Town Car that can carry six people in comfort rather than worrying about breaking their necks from hitting their heads on the ceiling when encountering expansion joints on the freeway. Those that enjoy a truck-like ride will be happy to know that you can enjoy the ride while sitting in the safety of your driveway. It's called a hydraulic suspension system and it can mercilessly bounce you and your friends in a '64 Chevy for hours at a time. Be the life of every party, but wait, there's more ....
I don't know why you think torque steer is such a problem with the MKS or the Taurus. I have probably read every review ever written about the Taurus and I also own one. Torque steer is a non-factor 99.9% of the time for 99.9% of buyers. If you really choose to drive aggressively and power into and out of corners, you will either choose the AWD or, more likely, you will choose a real RWD sports sedan.
Torque steer is the least of the MKS's problems. In fact, if Lincoln chose to build the MKS on a RWD platform with the room it has now but it still weighed 4,300 pounds and had a 273 HP V6, it would be no better than it is now. The MKS is a big heavy car with a somewhat modest powertrain - for now. It is not a BMW or CTS. It has huge advantages over those cars in some areas and also some disadvantages but the market will decide.
There are good reasons the clunky column shifter is all but gone.
You didn't mention what the reasons are. I actually don't have a problem with the column shifter. Why do you feel it is clunky. The usual arrangement just lacks bucket seats. I think the the whole apparatus between the front seats is clunky. This is only a matter of fashion or "what's in style". I can understand that. I don't think I will be manually shifting after playing with it once or twice, so I don't need the select shift or whatever it is called. I would actually prefer more storage space between the bucket seats.
Speaking of style or fashion. I don't think people actually understand how important an affect this has on us all. Have you noticed how dated older (10 yrs old or so) cars look to the eye? It is hard to imagine that these older cars actually were in style at one time when they were new. Back then, they didn't look odd at all. When my town car was purchased, it did not look dated. It is starting to look dated now, though. Time to move on. The MKS and its competitors will all look dated in 10 or 15 years from now.
Speaking more on style or fashion. Have you noticed that most of the families using full sized SUVs are just using them to move people around? Have you ever wondered why they don't have a minivan? The minivan would be more comfortable, more economical and would have better handling. It is because of fashion. Hardly anyone wants a minivan these days. Do you remember that tv commercial where the guy leaves his lights on in the minivan or something like that while in the gym but doesn't want to respond to the overhead announcement because he doesn't want anyone to know the vehicle is his? This is nothing but a style or fashion thing. Guess what, the new crossover SUVs are really just like wagons or minivans, bit more fashionable versions.
Speaking about all the full sized SUVs and big trucks on the road, does anyone believe they ride and handle better than my town car? Of course not. But where are the people putting the SUV and truck owners down because for poor vehicle handling characteristics?
I see so many people drive their cars as if they might tip going around a corner, even though the car could take the corner at a higher speed without any braking and without any strain or discomfort to the passengers. Most older people drive as if they were still piloting the boats from the 1940s, 50s and 60s where you really did have to slow down to a crawl to turn left or a sweep to the right in the road.
Not every town car owner drives like this. If you were to be on the road behind me, you would certainly have the impression that I am an average driver regarding acceleration, cornering, driving the speed limit and braking. The town car can easily handle average driving, probably easier than the full sized SUVs and trucks. There is nothing wrong with average driving. If anyone wants to stress their cars and tires while consuming more gas, that is fine with me. I will gladly allow you to pass.
Now if an older person is slowing down to a crawl and attracting your attention, then perhaps this raises the question as to whether this person should be driving. If you have ever been in the position of removing an elderly relative's driving privileges, then you will understand that this is a very difficult but sometimes necessary thing. But this is another issue that is not relevant to our discussion because elderly people drive all types of cars, not just "loose sprung body on frame dinosaurs". One more thing. Sometimes, one has to slow down when looking for an address or a place of business one has not visited before. This is easy to forget when one is on his or her daily commute on city streets, where every single thing on the route is well known and where any small delay is an aggravation. Have some patience sometimes.
I would have been very happy if Lincoln offered different versions of the MKS. I would be very happy for a version with a softer ride and better fuel economy. I bet the car would get 28 highway mpg easy and still have acceptable (for most people) acceleration and handling if it had a 3.5 L engine and lower final axle drive ratio. But this wouldn't make for good press with the auto writers, for whom 0 to 60 and slalom times are more important. The average driver never stresses his or her car to this extent. Of course, lincoln could offer a version with a firmer ride, larger engine with turbo and higher axle drive ratio for the people who want more performance. Instead, Lincoln compromised and gave us something in between.
First to echo what others have said, I have the greatest respect for the older customer base. I also respect the desire for a quiet comfortable riding car, regardless of age.
My advice for the TC owners who are willing to try something else: When your dealer gets more MKSs in stock, ask to drive one with the 18 inch wheels. Give it a good test on all sorts of surfaces and road textures. Don't just give it a quick drive around the block. I think you will find the ride and particularly the quietness to be far superior to your TC. I also think you will enjoy a connected feel with the steering and a level of control that you will find very comfortable. Please don't write off the MKS because I or someone else drove one with the "V" speed rated 19 or 20 inch wheels and called it "firm."
Get real. First of all, baby boomers are not going to suddenly go for Town Car-like boats when we get to be even older than we already obviously are. Secondly, there is a big difference between a truck-like ride and the MKS. If you like smooth, buy the 18" tires. The MKS with 18s will do expansion joints better than most Town Cars, and certainly does sharp bumps better (the Town Car's structure clunks like an old farm truck when you hit a really sharp pothole). A modern car jarred like that still sounds all-of-a-piece. To each his own I guess, but there is a reason the old Town Car is dying when the elderly population is increasing.
As for room, the Town Car is ok in back, but the Grand Marquis is inexcusably short on legroom for as big as it is. Exterior size does not always equate with the biggest interior.
Column shifters have longer connections from shifter to transmission. Granted, they are now engineered better and are less likely to bind and be so vague regarding gear position as they used to be. Console shifters are often more directly connected to the transmission. The difference is illustrated best with a manual transmission. The three on the tree has no comparison in smoothness to four or five or six on the floor.
All in all, it is what you are used to. I grew up with front bench seats. I saw what happened to the middle passenger's face hitting the rear view mirror in a minor accident. You want the sixth position in the middle, go for it. But personally, I never liked driving while crowded next to a middle passenger. And I just can't see any other reason for a column shifter, unless you plan on a middle passenger in front..
Anyway, a new Town Car could be engineered, but it would feel firmer to those who were used to the old one. Once you realize those boaty motions are not that comfortable compared to a car that can take sharp bumps with aplomb and not float up and down on the minor ones, the gig is up.
First, I wasn't really picking on the MKS which I have yet to drive and I hope it does ride like a Lincoln. I was going after the Audi (A8 excepted), Infiniti, and BMW. I do hope the 18" wheels will make a difference. As for the Town Car dying, it's more Ford's fault than the customers'. If they had kept the design up to date by pumping some R & D funds into it on a biennial basis, it could have been the modern full-size rwd car that it should be today. Back to the MKS, a driver-adjustable suspension would be an ideal solution like the last Continental had, but that car had an air spring system which was expensive and not slated for the MKS.
If they had kept the design up to date by pumping some R & D funds into it on a biennial basis, it could have been the modern full-size rwd car that it should be today.
Hmmmm, not sure that's entirely true. The interior has been sadly neglected for a decade now, but I believe the structure of the Townie is fairly up to date. You have rack & pinion steering up front, and Watts Linkage in the back. True, you have a live axle, but that's so Limo Drivers can jump curbs when need be without busting a wheel. The Townie is old, but current, and tough as nails.....
On the MKS: other than the grill, the overall styling is derivative and forgettable, and the car still has that dumpiness in profile that it inherited from the tall Taurus. But looks are subjective. While it will never get an award for prettiest car of the year, lots of people will like the conservative looks. Plus, it has a nice interior, lots of toys, and a quiet and very refined ride. It will meet the target audience quite nicely, but it won't by itself turn Lincoln around.
However it might be criticized, torque steer is NOT a problem. The average driver will never notice any--at all--and the aggressive, autocrossing, barnstorming MKS buyer (like there will be many of those!) will know how to compensate for the bitty bit that does show up under extreme conditions.
Anyway, criticize the car however you like, but how about dinging it on something that will actually be reality for most owners?
Comments
Now, as an exercise, everyone close your eyes and picture what a showroom Lincoln could have if they had brought another car, call it the MKLS based on the Jag XF. So maybe it would start at over 40K. It would hit an entirely different demogaphic that the S and voila Lincoln sales would double. It takes money to make money eh? (Repeat the exercise for a Mercury Cougar based on the Mustang.)
I was at my LM dealer today. Poked around the lot. No MKS in sight. Lots and lots of MKXes and MKZes. I opened an mkx, priced at $43,000, to confirm that my memory was not faulty. And yes, I remembered right - the door panels on this $43000 vehicle ARE hard plastic below a slim arm rest panel. When I got my loaner, a Kia Sorrento, I noticed it's door panels were practically identical - a slim arm rest and all hard plastic below. Though I think the rear end treatment of the MKX is very nice, I see absolutely NO reason to buy one. Crappy gas mileage and crappy materials. But I digressed again.
Not to mention - if they did that where would they be right now with Jag being sold? Just doesn't make any business sense - but it would have been a stunning vehicle.
The answer is GRWD should have been started way back in 2000. Then we'd have a less expensive but just as capable RWD platform and we'd have the MKS, MKR plus a TC replacement already. And if Ifs and Buts were Candy and Nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas. Water under the bridge as they say.
I'm sure dealers rushed to get these into the sales books for June. Most of the early ones were presold anyway - certainly enough to make those numbers.
Are these the wrong times for a new body designed,6 passenger 4 door 5.4L , 4,000 lb RWD sedan?
There is more to life than MPG.
I made sure each rep heard my disappointment with the instantaneous fuel economy bar graph display. I said, why not have a bar graph for the speedometer with a separate average speed display. You can always reset the average speed to find out how fast you are going at any one time. After all, the bar graph is much easier to read. Who wants to look at actual numbers. I think I made my point. To me, I want to be able to see the MPG at any one time as a numerical display without have to repeatedly reset the average MPG display. This can actually make people feel better about the car when they look down at say 45 MPH and see 30 MPG.
I regret forgetting to open the sunroof during the test drive. I am undecided on this option. On comparing the 18 vs. the 19 inch wheels, I find that the 19 inch ones seem to be a better match visually for the car. In other words, the 19 inch ones look better to me. Fashion is a funny thing.
As I indicated in my earlier post, the MKS is firmer than many will expect. I thought it might seem a bit too firm for those used to a DTS or TC. However, I disagree with whoever told you that you couldn't tell the difference between the 18 and 19" tires. The 18s are "H" rated Goodyear Comfortreds that are specifically designed for ride compliance and quiet. You should try one with those tires before you decide. No matter what the tires, though, the MKS will be firmer that a TC. I think that is a good thing but it is a matter of individual preference.
At both events I attended, I was struck by the age of the attendees. I would say the average age was late 60s to early 70s. The visitor parking lots were filled with TCs, Continentals, and a few Zephyrs. My LS was the only one I saw. I listened to some of the comments made by the crowd and they were not particularly positive. The small trunk opening was a common criticism. One older lady asked why the gearshift was on the floor instead of the column.
Lincoln better not rely on their current customer base alone to make the MKS a success.
At least Lincoln is bringing their blue hair buyers back to the showroom. Too bad they're looking for another town car.
Lincoln had their chance to bring in a younger demographic. Anyone who ever attended an LS Mania event could see the demographic was far younger than typical Lincoln buyers. But ... they blew it plain and simple. They will always be the car for the blue hairs. Even if the blue hairs dont like the car, that's the market. Lincoln may as well get used to it. They made their bed, ...
What a shame. Even the LS, though it attracted some younger buyers, is most often seen with a peer of and often a look-alike to Mother Theresa behind the wheel.
"All I can say is HA HA HA.
At least Lincoln is bringing their blue hair buyers back to the showroom. Too bad they're looking for another town car. "
Jeyhoe, I take offense to what you said. You are using a stupid term with "blue hair buyers". I may have grey hair, but I deserve to be treated with respect. What exactly do you mean with the term "blue hair". Regarding the other issue. What is wrong with someone looking for a car to replace a towncar? What is wrong with someone who primarily cruises on the highway and wants a soft comfortable ride? Why do you think everyone wants or should want a firm ride or the ability to zip around corners fast? I don't think you should put people like me down.
I accept that different people have different desires regarding their choice of cars. It you want a car like the LS, fine. If I want a car that is an updated towncar, fine. Don't put me down for that. What Lincoln has done is compromise. The MKS is a car with interior room like the towncar, but has somewhat of a sporty firm ride.
My point was that the MKS was not viewed by many attendees as a suitable replacement for their TCs. I think it will need to be viewed and driven by a completely different demographic to sell in good numbers.
You are both right, folks like what they like. What I was trying to say is that Lincoln buyers' average age is quite high and they're always talking about lowering it, yet they cant seem to. THe vast majority of Lincolns I see are driven by people of the greatest generation shall we say. Except for Navigators. Younger marrieds with families often in them.
Lincoln tried to catch a younger audience with the LS. It didnt work. At least not in the numbers they had hoped for. Because they soon gave up on the LS, those of us who had bought into Lincoln's touted 'rebirth' back then feel burned. Very few of those LS folks have stuck with Lincoln as there's just no place to go. People like me who like an LS kind of car must go elsewhere. And many of us dont really want to and we are torqued at Lincoln. NOT at Lincoln buyers.
THe MKS is a nice looking vehicle. It's in a strange position - it has a, IMHO, real sporty, futuristic look to it and even has a Select-Shift transmission and soon? a powerful twin-turbocharged engine. Yet Lincoln's 'typical' buyers have no need for select-shift or turbo performance. So who is going to buy the thing? THose who want a rather sedate, BIG comfortable ride like the TC (with a big trunk and opening) are going to be disappointed. And those who want ecoBoost or similar are going to be in the Audi, BMW and Infiniti dealers and probably wont give the MKS a second thought. It's a tough row Lincoln has to hoe. I dont have the answer except to say, if they would stick with something and develop it into the best it can be, they may also find they've developed a long line of followers. But tossing something against the wall every few years and then watching as it slowly oozes down the wall into a big puddly mess and then walking away aint gonna make it.
Last, I read auto-extremist every week and his rant this week was perfect. America is sinking into a few factions of haters, who despise the rest of the American people even more than they do our sworn enemies. Is this any way to run a country? No. Look at what happened to Bush on July 4 just giving a short speech to new citizens. I encourage everyone to read that rant pointed to by savetheland.
And once again, it aint the buyers, it's the sellers I'm talkin bout.
The G8 won.
Regarding Lincoln - the fact that Lincoln is forced now to compete with Huydais of the world (think about technological superiority fo Huydai Genesesis compared to NA Ford based Lincolns) is the sad reflection of level of mediocrocity the modern America and its leadership had fallen into.
There is a reason all other car companies have stopped selling loose structured, body on frame, solid rear axle cars. Almost no one but some old people, the livery trade and some taxi companies want them anymore. There are good reasons the clunky column shifter is all but gone. I see so many people drive their cars as if they might tip going around a corner, even though the car could take the corner at a higher speed without any braking and without any strain or discomfort to the passengers. Most older people drive as if they were still piloting the boats from the 1940s, 50s and 60s where you really did have to slow down to a crawl to turn left or a sweep to the right in the road.
Unnecesary braking wastes gas, and requires more acceleration afterward, but if people don't even begin to use the capability of their Town Cars, how is anyone to expect them to be interested in a car that can be driven even more smoothly at legal speeds on city streets?
Jeyhoe is pointing out that LIncoln has a real problem with its primary customer base. The MKS may not be received warmly by many TC owners, even though it is a vastly superior car to the TC. (Plus, the restricted opening to a very large trunk was a dumb move.)
Its so hard to get old without a cause
I dont want to perish like a fading horse
Youth is like diamonds in the sun
And diamonds are forever
Torque steer is the least of the MKS's problems. In fact, if Lincoln chose to build the MKS on a RWD platform with the room it has now but it still weighed 4,300 pounds and had a 273 HP V6, it would be no better than it is now. The MKS is a big heavy car with a somewhat modest powertrain - for now. It is not a BMW or CTS. It has huge advantages over those cars in some areas and also some disadvantages but the market will decide.
You didn't mention what the reasons are. I actually don't have a problem with the column shifter. Why do you feel it is clunky. The usual arrangement just lacks bucket seats. I think the the whole apparatus between the front seats is clunky. This is only a matter of fashion or "what's in style". I can understand that. I don't think I will be manually shifting after playing with it once or twice, so I don't need the select shift or whatever it is called. I would actually prefer more storage space between the bucket seats.
Speaking of style or fashion. I don't think people actually understand how important an affect this has on us all. Have you noticed how dated older (10 yrs old or so) cars look to the eye? It is hard to imagine that these older cars actually were in style at one time when they were new. Back then, they didn't look odd at all. When my town car was purchased, it did not look dated. It is starting to look dated now, though. Time to move on. The MKS and its competitors will all look dated in 10 or 15 years from now.
Speaking more on style or fashion. Have you noticed that most of the families using full sized SUVs are just using them to move people around? Have you ever wondered why they don't have a minivan? The minivan would be more comfortable, more economical and would have better handling. It is because of fashion. Hardly anyone wants a minivan these days. Do you remember that tv commercial where the guy leaves his lights on in the minivan or something like that while in the gym but doesn't want to respond to the overhead announcement because he doesn't want anyone to know the vehicle is his? This is nothing but a style or fashion thing. Guess what, the new crossover SUVs are really just like wagons or minivans, bit more fashionable versions.
Speaking about all the full sized SUVs and big trucks on the road, does anyone believe they ride and handle better than my town car? Of course not. But where are the people putting the SUV and truck owners down because for poor vehicle handling characteristics?
I see so many people drive their cars as if they might tip going around a corner, even though the car could take the corner at a higher speed without any braking and without any strain or discomfort to the passengers. Most older people drive as if they were still piloting the boats from the 1940s, 50s and 60s where you really did have to slow down to a crawl to turn left or a sweep to the right in the road.
Not every town car owner drives like this. If you were to be on the road behind me, you would certainly have the impression that I am an average driver regarding acceleration, cornering, driving the speed limit and braking. The town car can easily handle average driving, probably easier than the full sized SUVs and trucks. There is nothing wrong with average driving. If anyone wants to stress their cars and tires while consuming more gas, that is fine with me. I will gladly allow you to pass.
Now if an older person is slowing down to a crawl and attracting your attention, then perhaps this raises the question as to whether this person should be driving. If you have ever been in the position of removing an elderly relative's driving privileges, then you will understand that this is a very difficult but sometimes necessary thing. But this is another issue that is not relevant to our discussion because elderly people drive all types of cars, not just "loose sprung body on frame dinosaurs". One more thing. Sometimes, one has to slow down when looking for an address or a place of business one has not visited before. This is easy to forget when one is on his or her daily commute on city streets, where every single thing on the route is well known and where any small delay is an aggravation. Have some patience sometimes.
I would have been very happy if Lincoln offered different versions of the MKS. I would be very happy for a version with a softer ride and better fuel economy. I bet the car would get 28 highway mpg easy and still have acceptable (for most people) acceleration and handling if it had a 3.5 L engine and lower final axle drive ratio. But this wouldn't make for good press with the auto writers, for whom 0 to 60 and slalom times are more important. The average driver never stresses his or her car to this extent. Of course, lincoln could offer a version with a firmer ride, larger engine with turbo and higher axle drive ratio for the people who want more performance. Instead, Lincoln compromised and gave us something in between.
My advice for the TC owners who are willing to try something else: When your dealer gets more MKSs in stock, ask to drive one with the 18 inch wheels. Give it a good test on all sorts of surfaces and road textures. Don't just give it a quick drive around the block. I think you will find the ride and particularly the quietness to be far superior to your TC. I also think you will enjoy a connected feel with the steering and a level of control that you will find very comfortable. Please don't write off the MKS because I or someone else drove one with the "V" speed rated 19 or 20 inch wheels and called it "firm."
As for room, the Town Car is ok in back, but the Grand Marquis is inexcusably short on legroom for as big as it is. Exterior size does not always equate with the biggest interior.
All in all, it is what you are used to. I grew up with front bench seats. I saw what happened to the middle passenger's face hitting the rear view mirror in a minor accident. You want the sixth position in the middle, go for it. But personally, I never liked driving while crowded next to a middle passenger. And I just can't see any other reason for a column shifter, unless you plan on a middle passenger in front..
Anyway, a new Town Car could be engineered, but it would feel firmer to those who were used to the old one. Once you realize those boaty motions are not that comfortable compared to a car that can take sharp bumps with aplomb and not float up and down on the minor ones, the gig is up.
If they had kept the design up to date by pumping some R & D funds into it on a biennial basis, it could have been the modern full-size rwd car that it should be today.
Hmmmm, not sure that's entirely true. The interior has been sadly neglected for a decade now, but I believe the structure of the Townie is fairly up to date. You have rack & pinion steering up front, and Watts Linkage in the back. True, you have a live axle, but that's so Limo Drivers can jump curbs when need be without busting a wheel. The Townie is old, but current, and tough as nails.....
Just thought that was amusing. Not offense meant.
However it might be criticized, torque steer is NOT a problem. The average driver will never notice any--at all--and the aggressive, autocrossing, barnstorming MKS buyer (like there will be many of those!) will know how to compensate for the bitty bit that does show up under extreme conditions.
Anyway, criticize the car however you like, but how about dinging it on something that will actually be reality for most owners?