Toyota Camry Hybrid

explorerx4

my post was only about the difference between toyota camry models. bringing in other makes/models is a deflection, not a response.
LE model has 8 way power seat. XLE has a moonroof.
since 80% of camry sales are 4 cyls, my guess is most potential buyers are like me, they would be willing to give up 6 cyl power for better mpg. honda learned a hard lesson about that with the accord.
there is a pretty sizeable difference from invoice built into the msrp of the hybrid.
my opinion is that is the 'tch' is a good vehicle, but not a bargain. the hyrid upgrade is not a slam dunk better choice among other camry choices.

stevevillatoro

Good question. I run my pressures at 46/44. Would like to learn the answer.

hybridriver

What if you increase your tire pressure to a higher value (say 44psi)...

Can you set the system to tell it that the new higher pressure is nominal, and thus increase the "dangerously low" threshold?

Yes, there is a switch (looks like inside the glove box) to reset (re-normalize) the tire pressure sensor to key off the current pressure in the tires. See p. 174 of the TCH Owner's Manual.

spiff72

Interesting info...

Does the manual specify the warning threshold? Is it a percentage of the nominal pressure?

I don't have my TCH yet, so I can't look!

hybridriver

I run my pressures at 46/44.

Do you notice much difference in the ride quality? Also, do you know if that's within the specification of the tires?

hybridriver

Does the manual specify the warning threshold? Is it a percentage of the nominal pressure?

I see no mention of any threshold in either absolute or percentage terms... :surprise:

autoboy16

I prefer to say a lincoln zypher(mkz :confuse: ) or mercury milan to an avalon or es or is 350.

spiff72

Huh? Is "lincoln zypher" more fun to say?? :P

wvgasguy

I got run out of (titled something like this):

GM: will the new styling save it

and

Who will sell you your next car? GM, Ford, Toyo or Honda

wowser58

I am the proud new owner of a 2007 Camry Hybrid. I've put about 1500 miles on the car so far and I love it!!

There is finally a hybrid car that doesn't look like something out of a sci-fi movie. It moves very well and it has all the luxuries.

For those of you wondering about the price difference, the Hybrid is basically the XLE with hybrid technology, that's why it is on the high end of the Camry cost scale (mine is fully loaded and it cost just over 30K)

I think Toyota should adopt the new ad campaing that mirrors the 'Why do you think' anti-smoking campaign. I really feel that there is no reason not to drive a hybrid car. It looks great, it drives great, and the list of non-selfish reasons to drive it goes on and on.

wvgasguy

The WV credit expires for vehicles purchased after June 5th. That motivated me to decide quickly. It pushed me into making the purchase decision. I believe now after having it I would make the same decision even without the WV credit.

However with only the Fed $2600 this is now about a wash. I can buy a loaded V6SE for a discount (most of you evedentually can't in your area) and the tax credit makes it a decision about what you want, they're pretty even from a financial view. However if you can't get a discount on an SE then the Hybrid and credit (and fuel savings) makes this a good choice. I'm not sure though the people interested in the V6 would consider the hybrid as an alternative.

wvgasguy

Don't take my redneck comments too seriously. They had no sence of humor. I guess owning a GM product will do that to you

wvgasguy

One point I never got across was that I wasn't interested in a 4c Camry. I like a loaded car, all the toys. The Blue 4cSE I drove just to see if I fit with the sunroof was a sharp car, but I would never have traded my FX45 for it. However the loaded 4cSE if I remember was somewhere around $27,000 and with a discount would have still been in the $25,000+ range. Thus my loaded hybrid with tax credits is comparably priced.

The hybrid has the remote start (pretty neat), but other than that were pretty similarly equipped.

wvgasguy

I'm curious. So does the DiscountTireDirect with TPMS not acutally come with the monitors? If they do then do they give you the registration numbers for the Toyo garage to put them into your system? Or do you have to reinstall your own monitors (and thus extra cost for mounting and balancing after Tire Direct has already done this for you?

wvgasguy

Also, I've been trying to find out if you can simply turn the system off. I want a set of winter wheels and tires but don't want to spend an extra $400 on monitors.

I know even when you rotate tires (at least on the Scion) you have to reset the monitoring system.

And yes I will risk my life driving without that safety feature hooked up over the winter months.

stevevillatoro

I noticed virtually no difference in ride quality, but in an 18-mile loop conducted at the same speed, on the same night, I had the following results:

Conditions:
100% freeway loop, with long hills for about 20% of route
60 degrees, no detectable wind
Steady 65 MPH

First test: 37 PSI in all tires
Result: 39.5 MPG

Second test: 46 PSI front; 44 PSI rear
Result 42.3 MPG

kdhspyder

In a previous post here I did acknowledge just what you said the for many buyers the vehicle has to fit each one's situation. It is not a one-size-fits-all vehicle and it's not intended to be.

If the 4c LE is good enough for a driver's needs then there is no reason to look farther.

If however one does want more from the vehicle then the TCH fits in nicely.

Down the road the bulk of Camry sales will be CE's and LE's as is normal. This is how it should be. There is no intent or thrust to jam the TCH down on everyone. It's just there for anyone who wants it.

The comparison I made between the Fusion and the Avalon was just to illustrate that one vehicle appeals to one buyer and the other to another buyer and normally these two are not compared together. They are quite different. Ditto the LE Camry and the TCH.

Now the TCH is much more comparable to the V6 LE or XLE depending on equipment. Or the V6 Accord, Altima, Milan, Impala, etc. Now there is a valid set comparisons.

stevevillatoro

Seven pics now:

http://www.stevenvillatoro.com/page30/page30.html

hardchemist

No, wvgasguy - unfortunately the new aftermarket rims don't come with the monitors - and I had to call them specifically to ask them this.

Here's my plan: right after I pick up the TCH from the dealer I'm driving a few blocks down the road to a Discout Tire store whereupon they will 1) crack open the factory tires 2) remove TPM sensors 3) install TPM sensors on new rims 4) mount and balance new tires and rims 5) re-assemble and balance stock rims and tires.

Then hopefully sell the stock rims on eBay for ~$500 - 600. Plausible? I hope so. And I hope steps 1 - 5 won't cost much more than $100, considering the discount they give you for purchasing the tires from their Internet storefront....Cheers!

hardchemist

Nice pics, Steve!

Magnetic gray was my original color of choice, initially shying away from the metallic "barcelona" red - but after I left the dealership I realized, hey, I'm a hybrid driver now, so I can own a red car! I don't need to worry about cops seeing me, 'cause now I'm a sensible driver who doesn't exceed the speed limit much!

So when they called me up and asked if I wanted a loaded red one, I said to myself YES (but only said to them "yes") if you catch my drift....LOL

tomjc

Beautiful car Steve, I’m sold on the magnetic gray color with the ash leather interior, also looks clean outside without the badges. One review I read commented on the audio/navigation controls being too bright at night, have you noticed this?

mldj98

What was the procedure you used to remove the badging?
thanks

bmgoodman

Love the car! Thanks for the pics.

Question though: Aren't you at all concerned that in an accident first responders may not recognize that your car is hybrid, possibly endangering them or your family? Just curious if you had even considered it.

xenon666

Good point. I would also consider the potential legal liabilities in the event someone is injured.

jrock65

Too bad that if you are among the many hit by the AMT (like me), you won't qualify for the tax credit.

A fully loaded Camry Hybrid and a fully loaded V6 XLE are about the same MSRP, but the street price of the V6 XLE is about $2500 lower in my area.

So it doesn't seem that the Hybrid makes economic sense for those hit by the AMT, especially since they aren't really comparable given that the V6 XLE is significantly more powerful and faster.

Hopefully, street prices of Hybrids will come down, but at that point, the tax credit may not be available to anyone.

wvgasguy

I find it admirable that anyone making enough money to qualify for the alternative minimum tax would even consider a car like the Camry. Then again they say the way rich people get rich is by not wasting money.

kdhspyder

There is little risk since power and fuel are shutdown in an accident. All vehicles have a fuel shutoff sensor and the hybrids have a power shutoff sensor.

The batteries are non-toxic so that risk is minimal. I'd be more concerned about leaking gasoline from a ruptured fuel tank than anything else.

kdhspyder

Actually the TCH is over $1000 less in MSRP than the equivalient V6 XLE, both with the same equipment.

If somehow you could get an XLE V6 at invoice ( doubtful at present ) then paying full pop for a TCH would put you at a $1500 disadvantage, disregarding any tax considerations.

But with the TCH you are getting about 35% better fuel economy for the life of the vehicle and you are leaving a smaller footprint on the environment for the life of the vehicle.

That $1500 difference doesn't seem so significant.

If you lust for the power and efficiency of the amazing 3.5L V6 then you will love the V6 XLE, it is one sweet machine to drive.

Both are great options.

spiff72

If I have not been subject to the AMT in the past, is it unlikely that I will this year? Is there a rule of thumb (perhaps based on gross income) that might help with this determination?

Thanks!

gagrice

find it admirable that anyone making enough money to qualify for the alternative minimum tax would even consider a car like the Camry.

Trust me you don't have to make a lot of money to pay the AMT. I got stuck for 9 grand last year. Not sure how bad I will get hit this year after retiring. I would consider a Camry to replace our 1990 LS400. I would expect the Camry to last that long as well. That is why I am skeptical of the hybrids. I think many components will not make it 17 years.

gagrice

Last year was the first time I got stuck with it. They say 1.5 million more will get hit this year. Actually the tax credit you get from a hybrid could push you into the AMT bracket. From AMT 101:

Many of the credits that are allowed when you calculate your regular income tax aren't allowed when you calculate your AMT. The more credits you claim, the more likely it is that you'll end up paying alternative minimum tax.

wvgasguy

If I didn't want a hybrid and I liked the Camry styling I would have to be standing in line for an ES350.

I looked at the tax forms for the AMT before buying the Hybrid. I realize it's not all about how much money, but "what kind" of money you make. I'm not self employed or have the types of investment income that is affected so when I ran a quick calculation it did not seem to affect me.

I think the hybrids reliability is going to be OK (I'm betting on it) but if I thought I would keep this car 15+ years I probably wouldn't have went with a hybrid either.

gagrice

I would have to be standing in line for an ES350

My wife hates all the new Lexus. We rented a 2005 Camry in Victoria for a week and we both liked that car. I don't think she is going to like the looks of the 2007 when she sees one. She likes the E & S class Mercedes, not enough to write that big of a check. No rush the LS400 still runs very nicely. Just no XM radio that she likes in my PU truck. Whatever we buy will have XM I guarantee that.

kdhspyder

As the exception to the rule your concerns are noted but with 90+% of all buyers trading within 10 years ( 150,000 miles or so ), this is just at the limit of the CARB states warranty.

Again to me it's a non-issue based on my prior 17 yrs experience with 7 Toyota's but I can understand the pov for the very very very cautious.

bmgoodman

Maybe I am behind the times, but is it common for cars now to have "black boxes" that record data in the event of a crash? Seems to me that if my TCH has a black box but the other car in a collision doesn't, my car's black box MIGHT be used against me. Now, I'm not saying that I want to get out of trouble where I'm legitimately at fault, but could the black box make me look "guiltier" than I am?

Example, in Virginia, a speeding car loses the right-of-way in an intersection. Say I'm going 52 in a 45 zone, and a car runs the red light and hits me. My "black box" shows I was speeding, so now I'm at fault? Yes, this is somewhat a n issue with the law, but in this case, my car is testifying against me.

Anybody have any experiences with such things?

Event data recorder
Your vehicle has computers that monitor and control certain
aspects of your vehicle. These computers assist in
driving and maintaining optimal vehicle performance. Besides
storing data useful for troubleshooting, there is a
system to record data in a crash or a near car crash
event. This is called an Event Data Recorder (EDR).
The SRS airbag sensor assembly contains the EDR. In a
crash or a near car crash event, this device may record
some or all of the following information:
 Engine speed
 Whether the brake pedal was applied or not
 Vehicle speed
 To what extent the accelerator pedal was depressed
 Position of the transmission selector lever
 Whether the driver and front passenger wore the seat
belts or not
 Driver’s seat position
 Front passenger’s occupant classification
 SRS airbag deployment data
 SRS airbag system diagnostic data
If your vehicle is equipped with a vehicle stability control
(VSC) system, its Electronic Control Unit (ECU) may contain
another EDR. There are a variety of driving situations
which include activating the VSC under which the VSC
EDR will record certain information. The VSC EDR may
record some or all of the following information:
 Behavior of the vehicle
 Steering wheel angle
 Vehicle speed
 To what extent the accelerator pedal was depressed
 To what extent the brake pedal was applied
 To what extent the ECU controlled the condition of
the 4 wheels
 Vehicle stability control system diagnostic data
The information above is intended to be used for the
purpose of improving vehicle safety performance. Unlike
general data recorders, the EDR does not record sound
data such as conversation between passengers.

spiff72

This seems a bit off-topic, since this isn't really about the TCH, is it?

Don't virutally ALL modern cars have some of this info logged?

wvgasguy

The TCH does indeed have this but I think most modern cars also have it.

To increase my odds of not having this problem I won't be drag racing my hybrid against a 69 Road Runner. Hopefully I won't get T-boned by one either

autoboy16

Only when you don't have to say what mkz stands for. I can't imagine saying "I own a lincoln Mark Zypher" Besides, I don't even like domestic cars. The only 1 I kinda like would be a Mountaineer. ANYWAYS lets get back to the TCH . I like the grille better on the hybrid than i do any other model. But since portions of the air dam is blocked off, won't that effect MPG more than if you had say, a sev6 with no stripes?

stevevillatoro

The Nav controls are perfect at night. The NAV system has a very useful nighttime setting that reverses the screen at your preference to light letters on a dark background. Also the light blue glow of the control panel is pure George Jetson.

Ooooh, I'm gonna name my car "Jetson!"

stevevillatoro

Hardchemist, I really wanted Red, too. But I was "allowed" to get the Gray. There's never been a nicer red on a car than Barcelona Red.

stevevillatoro

For my badge-removing procedure, see my post at greenhybrid.com in the Camry Hybrid forum. It's easy to remove them, and just takes five minutes.

stevevillatoro

Regarding "impending doom" of hybrid vs. non-hybrid crashes, life is fast, who has time to worry? Besides, isn't it all about looking good? J/K.

If all else fails, trust in Toyota.

bmgoodman

Yes, it turns out GM has put it into most of its cars, so this does make it much more off-topic than I had realized. Sorry for the distraction.

stevedebi

"I find it admirable that anyone making enough money to qualify for the alternative minimum tax would even consider a car like the Camry. Then again they say the way rich people get rich is by not wasting money."

Many of the people caught by it are middle class, not rich by any means. It started out to catch millionaires, but was not indexed for inflation (since the 1970's!) :surprise:

wvgasguy

I read up on it some a bit ago. I make good money, probably on the high end of middle class but I live in a low cost state and have fairly significant itemized deductions (mortgage and charity giving). I have not had to pay this yet. From another site I understand there is a bill that is waiting on Bush to sign to avoid the "pain" for the 15MM people that this might affect this year if unchanged. Hopefully I can get my credits this year and the things that would throw me into this (cashing stock options?) can wait until after they alter the existing plan.

Reguardless, after having the TCH now for a couple of weeks, I would recommend it even without the credits.

It's not that it saves me so much over a 4c as some have to make a comparison to for justification, but it saves me a bunch over what I was previously driving and I just happened to be in the mood for something different. The TCH fits well with my desires and has a payback (at least over the 16mpg FX45)

spiff72

wvgasguy:

I went through the form for calculating the AMT, and I appear to be well short of the requirement to pay AMT. Double income, no kids, mortgage interest, our only stocks are in 401k... That is one ugly tax form. I have no idea how anyone comes up with these tax codes and instructions. If I use the 2600 credit to help justify this to my wife, and it doesn't actually work, I would be in trouble!

I am in the same situation here - but very anxious to get out of my 18mpg '02 Chevy Trailblazer. I will probably get screwed on the trade in, but I don't want to sell it myself. I had been justifying it because I needed a tow vehicle for a pair of jetskis, but I just sold them, and I am ready for something new.

The looks of the new Camry ads caught my eye (I think all automakers should do their commercials in High Definition!). The hybrid option really sucked me in - double the mileage, decent power (only about 1 second slower than my wife's V6 '05 Accord Coupe according to Car and Driver), and all the inside goodies that I want (Nav, leather, etc).

I am also an engineer, so I am impressed by the technical side of Hybrids. I want mine NOW! This wait is excruciating.

explorerx4

without those tax credits the hybrid premium can be pretty high.
without any changes in the laws, next year the income exclusion is supposed to drop significantly. that is why a lot more taxpayers are likely to be subject to 'amt'.
i don't know how many tch's are expected to be produced, but i doubt they will have any trouble selling them this year.

kdhspyder

In the case of the TCH there is little or no 'hybrid premium'. In the case of the XLE the TCH is less than the ICE version.

jrock65

"Actually the TCH is over $1000 less in MSRP than the equivalient V6 XLE, both with the same equipment.

If somehow you could get an XLE V6 at invoice ( doubtful at present ) then paying full pop for a TCH would put you at a $1500 disadvantage, disregarding any tax considerations."

How are you figuring over $1000?

Hybrid (convenience pack., leather, moonroof, navi): $30,390 MSRP

V6 XLE (Smartkey, heated seats, VSC/Trac, Navi): $30,840 MSRP

Difference is $450 MSRP. Is there something I'm forgetting?

In my area, I can get a fully loaded 2007 V6 XLE for $28,400 with no haggling. Fully loaded hybrid is still firm at MSRP of $30,400. So it would be a $2000 difference I guess.

Would have been nice to get the tax credit, but oh well.

sallyspal

This forum has magical powers. A few days ago I complained here that I had been waiting three months without any word as to when my TCH might arrive. Then, magically, the dealer called today. OK, so its not here yet, but its coming, in a few weeks, and its equipped exactly as I wanted. After work I even dashed down to the dealer to test drive one. Sweet! This was the right decision!