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You should come to Mass. It appears based off toyota's website that so far, nothing but "stripped" base models are available at this time. I've plugged in numerous zip codes and it doesn't allow me to configure one with any option packages.
The battery charges from the engine when needed, from braking and often when I'm coasting (not always, sometimes the engine stays on and I'm getting a 60mpg reading on instant gage). I would have to assume that in the B mode to get engine braking you would then indeed not be charging the battery unless it was low enough for the engine to charge it.
I guess my real question is, what's the most effecient charging. Does braking, by possibly causing more torque / resistance on the generator charge more than coasting (using the momentum of the car)? Compared to the engine chargine the battery does the braking and coasting even supply much of a significant % of total charging? I see the schematic lights pointing towards the battery but really don't know the "level" of charge between the various modes of charging. Is there something on the consumption screen (Nav system only) that shows this charge rate?
Also, does harder braking over shorter distances not charge as much or more than light braking over longer distances?
I believe though long term this engine should hold up better than the standard 4c. It has been tweaked for FE not performance. I understand that the max RPM is 4500 (someone else understand that as well?)I believe the battery let's the system "baby" the engine as much as possible where as a driver of the base 4c car probably winds it up a lot and often.
However I see you have a Canadian flag on your heading and warm up is probably more of an issue with you.
I don't really like to warm my cars up with idle in the driveway, but if you typically warm up by driving slow until the engine is warm you should be able to do the same with the TCH. Again, if you have a foot of snow on your car in the morning, I'm guessing you would be curious about this.
In the HSD vehicle typically what occurs is that when you 'power up' nothing happens!
In cold weather engaging the ICE may occur sooner since
1. the fluids in the ICE need to be warmed up;
2. the cabin needs to be warmed up ( normally you'll turn on the heater )
3. the catalytic converter needs to be warmed up to abt 800 deg to operate most efficiently
This is why in winter driving you will find your fuel economy suffering by as much as 10-15%. It's true for all vehicles. It's just that few of us really paid all that much attention to it before. I drove for 30+ yrs in cold weather and never paid much heed to what was going on. This is why on short trips of 10 min or so in the winter you might experience very low city values - but so does every other vehicle on the road.
Situations:
A) If you don't shift into gear right away then after about 10-15 sec the computer checks the charge on the traction battery and starts up the ICE to give the battery a boost. After several more seconds of just sitting there the ICE will shut down again. It will cycle on and off like this as you keep sitting there.
C) You start up and immediately stomp on it to get going? Why? You might have to. Both power sources jump on it right away. It's prolly not the best to do in very cold temps but you might have to do it ocassionally.
The EV mode to ICE to both to EV mode is being done constantly as demand requires and is overseen by the HSD computer. It's seamless.
You might inquire on other boards about really cold weather usage since I believe that some in Canada and MN, the Dakotas and other places have employed engine block heaters as with any ICE. I've never done so.
Au contraire ( next Gen possibly ). There might be a plug-in option with a more powerful battery that might allow one to drive for up to 10 mi at start up just on the battery and e-motor. Then when the charge fell to say 30-40% the ICE would finally turn on to charge/drive the vehicle. Assuming the same numbers as currently stated - for a 60 mile daily commute the first 10 mi would be dino-fuel-free and the last 50 mi would be at say 2.0 GPC ( 50 mpg ). In today's Gen for that 60 mi trip one would use 1.2 gal of fuel. In the next gen one would use 1.0 gal of fuel which is 20% better efficiency.
In the extreme case of a very short commute one could go indefinitely on a tank of dino-fuel ( EV mode only ).
Also, does harder braking over shorter distances not charge as much or more than light braking over longer distances?
Quick answer: the most efficient method is just to drive normally. There is no quick charge method although stop and go driving with normal braking will add 50wh of energy to the battery for each icon 'earned'. Toyota's literature advises anticipation, longer light braking ( if safe ) and to try to avoid short hard stops ( but be safe ).
Au contraire right back at you.
The point elias was making was that in a 'normal' hybrid, all energy used to move the car can be traced back to the gas put in the tank. One can directly calculate the mpg by dividing the total distance driven by the total gallons used.
But with a plug-in hybrid, some of that energy to move from point 'A' to point 'B' comes out of a wall socket. Yet the plug-in hybrids are using THAT energy to inflate the mpg figure. You said it yourself: In the extreme case of a very short commute one could go indefinitely on a tank of dino-fuel ( EV mode only ).
By that logic, the plug-in hybrid owner could claim they were getting infinite mpg. But that isn't the case since they aren't using any of the gas to move.
The only 'fair' way to rate mpg would be to compute the distance traveled USING GAS. Unfortunately, you can't do this with a plug-in hybrid so you get these skewed numbers.
Want to make sure I understand the process. In cold weather start-up the engine will not engage until it's required and when it is, the RPM'S will be kept to a minimum (at least until the vehicle's engine has warmed up). That's leading back to my original fear, the engine kicking in before it has warmed up (lubricating the valves, etc.)
From the responses so far, it appears that the system has protection features that should eliminate the risk of damaging the engine in cold weather driving. Using common sense will also help (like driving slowly until the vehicle has warmed up).
Thanks, Peter
That is what I meant. The traction battery will deplete, and you end up with both batteries being depleted.
I see that if only the 12v is down, it can be jumped.
Not available on the Hybrid though.
Not sure if I'm reading this correctly, but the passenger seat on the TCH is powered, with no lumbar adjustment. At least on the leather package, which I have.
I checked the Owner's Manual, which also uses the phrase "engine braking" in its terse paragraph concerning the "B" setting on the transmission. I had assumed that "B" would cause the battery to charge at a faster rate by converting more rotational energy to electricity than normal. I did have the energy flow screen activated, and am pretty certain the battery was getting charged while in "B" gear. I'll double-check that next time I drive, and post an update.
The engine has to run until the Catalytic converter is heated up.
It does. The difference is that the PSD uses the engine (with modified valve timing) to achieve extra braking minimising the need to use the braking system. Particularly useful on long mountain descents.
I don't know this for a fact but from using an HSD vehicle the ICE doesn't start up for about 10-15 sec, runs for 20-30 sec to give the battery a boost ( plus 'warm up' the catalytic converter? ), then the ICE shuts down for quite a while ( several minutes? ). As long as the vehicle is not put into gear this cycling continues.
I don't know how long it takes for the catalytic converter to come up to operating temp but I imagine it's longer than 20-30 sec. I may be wrong. ??
Bob
bobfl, i am well aware of plugin hybrids or "prius as ups".
mentioning "mpg" in the same sentence as "plug-in-hybrid" is patently absurd, unless you include the numbers for the fuel burned at 40% efficiency at the oil-fired electric plant 50 miles away, plus any the fuel burned to transport that oil. and factor in 50% energy loss in the power lines along the way. etc etc etc. you really don't want to go there with such surmised math.
a plug-in hybrid can be a beautiful thing for certain apps & especially places with wonderful plentiful (if expensive) nuclear electricity.
but don't even mention mpg with regard to plug-in hybrids or i will put a perpetual-motion energizer-bunny-rabbit-email-beat-down on your non-physics-knowing behind! google & listen to "MC Hawking" - that is the sort of bonus science i am talkin about, homey!
It does. The difference is that the PSD uses the engine (with modified valve timing) to achieve extra braking minimising the need to use the braking system. Particularly useful on long mountain descents.
OK, so I take it there is no additional energy stored in the battery over using "D" and riding the brakes. In which case I stand corrected (and enlightened). It will save brake wear, at least...
Toyota has a problem trying to match more than one piece of paper to another.
... unless you have a large solar grid on your roof that is generating more than your household is consuming. True, there are costs to manufacturing and installing the solar panels, but if one is using that as a primary source of household power, the incremental cost to provide charge to one's hybrid auto is fairly minimal.
I do understand that people have been frustrated with the lack of consistent info, but in fairness, this is a brand new model and I'm sure it's requiring a massive effort on their part to get the cars here even as quickly as they are. This forum was probably my best source of info leading up to my purchase. Thanks to everybody, once again!
and I also agree with the point, above, that some of your plug-in power could come from your own solar panels
still, it's not really fair to then measure your mileage in mpg - as you DO have a supplmeental source of energy
I think we can all agree on that
that doesn't make it bad or wrong or fattening
it's a complicated analysis, whether a hybrid or a plug-in hybrid, is better for the environment than a normal gasser or a diesel
I support hybrids for those environments where air quality is a problem - then again, replacing a two-year old Corolla with a Prius isn't much of a net gain on emissions, and hybrids do take more energy to build than a gasser, generally (if we are to beleive the recent studies)
Unless, of course, the earth becomes covered by clouds due to global warming...
that's not exactly true
keep in mind that pv panels generate electricity during the day, which is likely when you are driving it
now, I am not anti-pv (in fact I have a system on the roof). And you can sell your generated electricity into the grid and then buy it back at night, when it is cheaper and there is excess capacity. Drive em during the day, plug em in at night. And so it goes. I think every roof should have a system on it. No question these kilowatts are cheaper than a new power plant.
OK, even if (for the sake of argument) the gas savings are completely offset by extra production and battery replacement costs, I'm still going to drive a hybrid because, as I mentioned before, it's a way of voting YES (with one's pocketbook) to continued research and development. It also raises people's awareness to alternatives and to issues they should be considering, but haven't been due to low fuel costs (heretofore) in the US.
Furthermore, the fact that hybrids at this very early stage of development can already best ICE vehicles in so many ways can only mean that they will completely blow them away within a decade or two, IMO.
IT'S SUPERB!!!
Not available on the Hybrid though.
Not sure if I'm reading this correctly, but the passenger seat on the TCH is powered, with no lumbar adjustment. At least on the leather package, which I have.
That is the answer I was looking for. I knew from the literature the leather package included power passenger seat, but nothing in the literature said anything as far as I can remember about lumbar support. Thanks
Just how far would you expect a battery alone to be able to propel a 3700 pound car? The charging / discharging is an on going constant process.
The batteries are NiMH. Here is an interesting link about them from a producer. It was interesting to me to note that according to the producer there is little or no toxic risk from the materials as opposed to a normal lead acid battery.
http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/tutorial/InsideNimhBattery/inside_nimh_battery_techno- logy.html
BTW if you weren't aware Toyota has a telephone No and label imprinted on each battery to assist in recycling. There is a $200 bounty paid on each battery returned to Toyota for recycling.
Below is some input to the question about city mileage. I do NOT claim that I can reliably duplicate the following results (not enough experience to say). However, in the conversation of "what's possible" for an upper limit of city mileage, my account might be interesting to some.
Today, on flat roads, I had a chance to do some informal and unintentional city mileage tests. (In other words, I didn't start out with any testing purpose in mind.) The outside temp. was 70 degrees, and my TCH was warmed up. I ran the A/C in Eco. I covered about four miles in 11 minutes, with about ten stops for stoplights. I would start with battery power only whenever traffic would permit, and otherwise would accelerate to traffic speed (35-45 MPH) and coast/battery as soon as possible.
The NAV system recorded an amazing average 81.4 MPG for those 11 minutes. I hit the reset, loading the 81.4 MPG into my "Best" folder. Then, for the next five minutes, until I arrived at the freeway entrance, I did another segment that stunned me with 85.1 MPG, for a continuous 16 minutes of 80+ MPG.
My first tank average is 37.5, but that includes some lead-footing. When I'm alone and being cautious, I can consistentily average 41-42 MPG, which is primarily freeway driving. Long and extended hills in San Diego have been my Camry's mileage downfall.
Anyway, 80+ MPG is a pretty good target for city driving. Makes me glad I sold my Insight!
I saw it in full sunlight. Although I admit that I'm a bit red/green color blind, it looked bright (almost neon) lime to me. I had my wife check it out separately and she didn't hate it, but she thought that we'd tire of the color rather quickly. Since she often ends up with my car when I'm ready to move on, it's probably a deal-breaker for us.
At this point, we're waiting for a silver one. Yes, it's ubiquitous, but when you live in the tundra of northern Wisconsin, it much easier to keep it looking clean given our abundance of snow/mud/grime.
I'm committed to "going green" but not literally!
Is additional hardware required even if you are getting the Navigation system?
If so, what does this addtional hardware consist of and is this a seemless installation or something that is going to stick out somewhere?
Also, does it make a difference as far as looks/compatability with controls, etc if you go Sirius or XM?
Lastly, what is the price for any additional hardware?
Thanks!
"The driving experience is best described as "interesting". I had previously driven a Prius and enjoyed the way it handled. I did enjoy how the Camry drove in stop and go traffic. The transition from battery power to the engine was silky smooth. The new Camry certainly had a great deal of power when pulling away from an intersection, or upon entering a highway. Unfortunately once the car reaches full highway speed, there is a terrible lunging when settling into a cruising speed. At 70MPH the car would repeatedly jerk forward then relax... it seemed impossible to maintain a constant speed. I had seen this before in the Road and Track Magazine Test Drive, and I experienced it myself today. This was one of the deal-killers for me as the car felt unsteady and difficult to control at highway speeds."