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Comments
iluv, you are probably the only one who openly adores a Suzuki.
Your a great and funny guy.
Rocky
Well, while you do pour forth quite a bit here, I shouldn't think it is too much to ask you to keep track of your own themes.
They are full of smartness lately and the 2007 Suzuki SX4 is an aching bargain waiting to be picked up.
It is a good looking car outside. Interior leaves me wanting. Seems practical. Zipcar has the S40 now. Given how nice those little sedans are, I expect the V50 would be that much better. Not so cheap as the SX4, perhaps, but you get what you pay for.
Dusty and Billy and Frank are big car nuts like us, too.
Snap-snap!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Ha! My U.K. license was issued to me in 1979 and doesn't expire until 2032.
Note - in Japan, they sell an AWD version of the Fit - but not anyplace else. Go figure.
Pros:
- Looks like it does everything the Fit does but with a bit more power, space, and all the goodies.
- AWD is lockable/defeatable. What I mean is that you can turn it into a Subaru-like all-time AWD in bad weather as opposed to the GM and Honda nonsense where it tries to think for you. I like that you have the "no", "help me when you think I need it", and "bad weather" choices.
- Decent radio. Honda charges extra to hook in your mp3 player and GM can't figure out what MP3 means.
- Price is virtually identical to the Fit Sport.
Cons:
- Rear seats still don't fold perfectly flat, though being able to move them forward helps some(roughly the same cargo area as a Fit due to this). Rear seats also don't recline like in the Fit.
- Is there a way to defeat the running lights?
- Sport version adds essentially foglights.(traction control is only useful in 2wd mode - 4wd already would provide better results) Of course, the Fit also suffers from this "oversight".
- Mileage is pretty poor. 30mpg highway from such a small car.
I really don't think you'd notice any difference in size between a Focus and an xA--truly.
Just for the record I passed a gasoline tanker on Highway 1 today at considerable speed, going uphill on a slight grade, (you have to work fast on Highway 1 in California--it's only a two-laner) with an entire Elfa desk in my cargo area. "54 X 30" X ?
I was very proud of my underpowered, cramped car. It must be the pyschotropic drugs I'm taking.
Honda Fit with paddle shifters?
I have never seen so much content in a car priced below $15,000 in my life. Yes, I'm excited because I'm gonna score one of these puppies!
BTW-the Chicago Bears will not mow through the whole year like that game over the Seahawks. They were hyped on partisan fans and Jim Hargrove having a breakout game.
He was spot on-I have to admit. He sliced and diced apart the Seattle secondary.
I think that reality will catch up with da Bears very, very soon. It's a pretty long season. Wait and see.
It looks early like SEA and CHI are the best of the best in the NFC. You'd be amazed how much home field advantage is worth, though.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
:-P
But do go test drive it, and soon please! Try not to let your enthusiasm overwhelm you, and give us an honest assessment of your test drive.
As far as I can tell, you never drove the xA and Kia you were previously so excited about, did you?
And hey, now that you are in Arizona, what do you need the AWD of the SX4 for? Go check out the xA RS3.0, you'll probably buy one. ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
But it's a very nicely optioned out car with AWD for $3K less out the door than a Matrix - without AWD.
It's Hyundai pricing on an AWD Vibe/Matrix clone.
The only gripe of mine is that the rear seats stink. Cargo room takes an enormous hit because it doesn't old flat, which is something ALL consumers look for now, be it a SUV or a econobox.
I priced a Vibe simmilarly and got $18,000 out the door. ANd that's not AWD or the GT. Even with GM throwing in money on a 2006 model, it's still a clear win for the Suzuki.
You know I personally have nothing against the xA. When they first came out I thought they looked a bit like a Matrix and I had almost bought a Matrix over the PT. When I got the Focus I thought about the xA again bit the price was so close, and could actually test drive the Focus I was getting the car for my wife so a bit more HP seemed in order. To tell the truth the Focus sized cars seemed pretty good in the space department. I had looked at the old P-5, the Saturn LS wagon, Honda Civic, and even a Prius. The P-5 was the closest to the Focus in handling and power. The LS was nice but I couldn't find one with a 2.2 and a stick. I live in the mountains remember. The Prius was like driving a sled and handling was horrid for the size of the car. The Civic didn't do anything bad but it didn't shine anywhere either. No body had a new xA to test drive so I ended up with the Focus.
It felt pretty good, room wise, until I started playing drums. As my kit grew the car seemed a bit small. I guess what I am saying is with a Compact it can be pretty easy to out grow the car. With a Sub Compact it would be even easier if you had a family. I am sure there are many people that don't have a growing family or a hobby that would make room an issue but for most car buyers the very idea that they might need more room is a consideration that has driven the mid sized market to the top and was part of the contributing factor that at one time placed Mini Vans and Suvs towards the top as well. Do you think we as a society have reached a point where people are going to turn away from this idea towards the practical side of only getting just as much car as they need? I don't think so. :confuse:
As far as the SX4, I think it will come down to if you need AWD. If you really demand AWD, then you're not going to consider the Fit, Versa, etc, but if you don't need it, then why even consider getting a vehicle of the size of he SX4 that gets MPG in the 20s with an AWD system you don't need that just becomes one more thing to break in the future?
The line between these types of cars really is a fine one. The EPA classifies cars according to interior volume, and the breakdown goes like this...
Minicompact: <85 cubic feet of combined passenger/cargo volume
Subcompact: 85-99
Compact: 100-109
Midsize: 110-119
Larg: 120 or more
Wagons are classified differently, however.
However, often a car is close to the upper end of its size class, so it might not feel noticeably smaller than a a car at the lower end of the next size class up. So a big subcompact might not feel much different from a small compact. Also, a car could have a smallish passenger cabin and a big trunk, or vice versa. Plus, it depends on where YOU need that interior room. Do you need a lot of legroom but not a lot of headroom? Do you need a lot of shoulder room?
The Civic is rated at 91/12 (passenger/cargo volume) while the Fit is rated at 90/21. But keep in mind that the Fit is a hatchback, and actually more of a pint-sized minivan, while the Civic is a sedan, so about half of that 21 cubic feet of cargo space is actually up in the window area, above the level of the back seat. That's great if you need to haul something bulky home, since you can put the back seats down and you have a big hatch area to load it. But if you have back seat passengers, that 21 cubic feet of so called cargo area is NOT the same as, say, 21 cubic feet of cargo space in a Crown Vic or Ford 500. Unless you don't mind packing stuff up to the ceiling, blocking your vision out of the rear, and risk having it fall the moment you tap the brakes.
I think it will become the poor mans AWD vehicle. I think a lot of people who want (read "want" not "need" as most don't "need" AWD) but need (or want) to keep the price down will be drawn to it. That being said I think Suzuki might have a decent seller with the car.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I don't waste my time being enthusiastic over just any rig, either. This 2007 Suzuki SX4 is one worth getting enthusiastic over. I've extold it's virtues numerous times over so I won't go into them again in this post, but, as far as wanting the SX4's AWD capabilities while living in a desert environment like I am right now, let me say this about that.
It will be nice to have the SX4's gripping qualities when I'm up on the ridgeline of Mt.Graham heading to or from the U of Arizona's Large Telescope slated to open for touring soon. I plan on climbing some of the many mountainous areas that most people don't know exist in this state of illegal immigration. Oh, yes, that's another story for some other forum far, far away. We don't want to get into that travesty of justice at this time, except to say much more needs to be done to stem the tide of illegal immigration in this country. Just because you live south of the US-Mexico border doesn't entitle you to a living in this nation while not becoming a citizen of the U.S. Someone needs to seriously grab that Chicago Bear by it's paws and slap the...stuffing out of it.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I must say the power really isn't that bad compared to the Cooper S. This one also had the rubbish 5 speed manual instead of the better 6 speed manual avaliable in later Coopers. Obviously the Cooper is not the hotrod that the S is but it can get out of its own way and being even lighter then the S it handles great too.
Mountain schmountain. Power to all wheels is not necessary on paved roads in any condition. The SX4 is clearly no off roader.
Suzuki added AWD as a marketing gimic. It will probably work on some as long as fuel prices stay relatively low. But it does not make the SX4 any safer than any other vehicle
Also, here in CA, you'll occassionally see road warnings that say "4WD (AWD) required)". So that would allow you to get past that, too.
AWD can certainly help in many conditions such as snow. Conditions where am AWD vehicle would move when a FWD or RWD wouldn't are few and far between but other times AWD can help a lot. The trouble is that it is rare that you can't (or at least I can't) get around fine without it. Maybe not as well but good enough.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
AWD may help in the Scandinavian countries and high Colorado and Sierras where instead of plowing they pack down the snow.
Not sure the SX4 comes with wheels (or clearance, for that matter) that could handle mid-Winter mountain roads. I doubt it.
Rather, I expect Suzuki is marketing the awd toward the road warrior set who seem to think it helps performance. As Mr. Shiftright says, not so on pavement.
Off road is a whole nother story. But I believe with the changes in the XL7 this year, Suzuki no longer produces a ladder frame vehicle for the US, so it does not have an off roader.
I am not saying that you won't have trouble, but AWD makes getting around a little easier when there is snow on the ground. I am in the Chicago area and many times when you get heavy snowfall at rush hour they don't send out the plows until traffic starts clearing up. That usually means driving through a thick mush, trust me AWD can help in those circumstances.
Now I am not saying you need it but it can help in rare occasions.
Now I have friends that live out in the country. Some of those roads have never seen a snowplow. One guy I know has a pretty steep hill leaving his house, not to high climbing maybe 150+ feet but steep just the same. Thats a nightmare during or after a winter storm, I know AWD will help in that circumstance.
Rather, I expect Suzuki is marketing the awd toward the road warrior set who seem to think it helps performance.
Oh I am sure it is a marketing thing. As I said before its going to turn out to be the poor mans AWD vehicle.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Give me RWD first, AWD second and keep the FWD unless I really like the rest of the car enough to consider living with it (as in a significantly tooned xA or sumpin')!
Hey wale - how's tricks?
What's your take on the new Speed3?
Well, 3 five-door me likey muchly, but I haven't put my fanny in a Speed. I have doubts about throwing 280 ft-lb through a front end, even though it is Mazda, who ranks as #2 right behind Honda for FWD performance refinement in my book.
I'd say it qualifies as one of those where the rest of the package is so good, I could force myself to live with the FWD for 36 months or so, but I'd rather shell out the (steep) extra clams and get an A3 3.2Q, and add Haldex and more sophisticated styling to the mix, not to mention an Open Sky roof. :shades:
They did use it, and it got banned.
Unfair Advantage
The way I look at it - you get a Matrix/Vibe clone. Seriously. The two are dead-ringers for each other. The Suzuki has a bigger engine and you get 4*4 added for free.
???
If you check out Suzuki's site, they are calling it a 3-mode AWD system.
Mode 1: FWD. Good for snow and whatnot
Mode 2: AWD. Computer turns this on and off as required. Essentially traction control built-in. This is identical to 90% of the AWD systems sold today.
Mode 3: 4*4. No - really. Locked into AWD full-time. This essentially works the same as most 4*4 trucks and is something that only Volvo, Audi, and Subaru currently offer on a passenger car.
What makes it special, though, is that you can manually decide! FWD for highways and maximum mileage, AWD for rain, construction and so on, and full-time mode for the ugly stuff.
At this price, it's a very nice option that they are throwing in for free. Afterall, the closest competition is the Matrix/Vibe, which is more money. Pay $2K less - get AWD thrown in for free.
I am just not convinced on AWD. An admitted front engine RWD afficianado, I am not keen on other set ups - even the 911 mid engine.
Still, AWD seems over engineered for what is by all rights a paved street only car.
Having weight over the drive axle is a good thing, so FWD cars with the engine over the axle, while not so good for certain corners, is good for getting going on something slippery.
Its amazing how effortless an AWD car is to get going on something slippery. You can feel all the differentials doing their thing, its a thing of beauty really. Also, you can use the throttle and differentials to affect the cornering attitude on slippery surfaces. Its fun.
It just doesn't help you stop.
The new deal here is that this crossover can be toggled into 2WD(FWD)and left there for most driving situations. Subaru's claim to fame is AWD. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Subaru's outfitted with full time AWD? Yes, they are, all of them are.
This 2007 Suzuki SX4 thus sets a precedent in automotive engineering and it does so at only $14,999. Italian body design is an added bonus. This is not just another compact car-it is special. Very special.
I have been calling the SX4 a subcompact but a website I was on today talking about the SX4 described it as a compact. Technically we ought not ever talk about it on this thread again, then.
What a car. Suzuki, the Kia of Japan, has outdone theirselves with this car.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
And it's not that uncommon. Here in California, we get snow all the time on several major highways. Most noteably, route 5 over the Grapevine, just half an hour north of L.A. You also get it half the year going to most major parks like the Grand Canyon and Yosemite. And you get it all year round if you go up Pike's Peak. The last couple of miles are gravel and intermittent ice - not recommended unless the weather is very clear if you have a car with poor traction.
Then there's gravel, dirt roads, construction areas, and of course, mud. Mud is a fantastic equalizer right after it rains. It tends to bring everyone together at the bottom of it.
AWD is a very nice feature to have, even if you might only need it a couple times a year.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
What caught my eye before reading about the mechanicals were the SX4's handsome good looks. Good looks that Subaru has never duplicated on any of it's rigs-ever. The i-AWD system on the SX4 looks to be strong and solid-a new design but something tells me it's not that complicated. An electronic coupler located just north of the rear axle with an electronic sensing system and a mechanism to lock both axles together for 4WD action. A new system but a great Warranty to back it all up-that's good enough for this padre to buy a piece of.
Subaru has some of the homeliest cars I have ever seen. Kia blows them rightly cleanly out of the water. I have not once thought of disrespecting Kia and Subaru has never impressed me with any of their lineup. Kia has it all over Subaru-just plain and simple do.
Suzuki's SX4 and it's strong medicine is making me take a hard Sam Elliott look at them. That great Warranty isn't hurting their cause.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Still Suzuki is giving it a good try. Even if the two wheel drive option is a bit like the very old Subaru system before they all became AWD. It is not like a truck however because it doesn't have a high an low range, or does it? I know my old Subaru RX had both a electric locker and a low range. But they got too expensive to compete with other imports and looked like they were going to drive the company into the ground. AWD drive is great but not very necessary in an entry level sub compact. I did at one time have an eye on my secretaries Swift. Her husband sold it to a kid instead. Said he hated the car and wouldn't sell it to a friend. Now that was a sub compact.
Rocky
Hyundai, Kia, Scion and Suzuki cleanly blow any Subaru right outta da water, man.
Ain't no way I'm gonna toy with a company like that that can't even design a car that looks professional. Kia is strong and solid and there was never a real threat they would disappear. Suzuki is strong and solid and Toyota/Scion...is there a need to extol their virtues?
Of course not. Now, what is going to be interesting is a few things affecting subcompact vehicles.
1)Will ghastly prices keep dropping or stay the same or go up? Subcompact sales will rise and fall according to ghastly price trends.
2)Will the American people embrace the new wave of Chinese cars coming soon to America? Will Chinese car quality be up to our collective snuff?
3)Will Honda, Toyota/Scion, Hyundai/Kia, Nissan, Subaru, Suzuki, Mazda, etc., etc., all need to lower their entry-level subcompact prices in order to not lose ground to these Chinese cars coming in at 30% lower prices? Or will they hold their entry-level price ground and just go with the notion that they can lose some lower end customers and keep profiting from their higher end customers.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Hyundai, Kia, Scion and Suzuki cleanly blow any Subaru right outta da water, man.
I don't often participate in this forum, but "iluv" fell of his rocker saying a kia is better than a Subaru. As a unbiased observer of all the brands he listed Subaru is clearly light-years ahead of everything he listed. "iluv" is a great guy, but is clearly blinder that Ray Charles.
Perhaps that is from watching his Seahawks, Ummm, play like my Lions. :P
Rocky
Naw your paying for it, I would suspect that if it was a FWD car it would cost considerably less.
While I would be the first to admit that in some situations AWD is better I don't think that it is so much better that it justifies the additional cost (at least for most people).
I am keeping with the notion that it is just a marketing gimmick.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You know when I lived in Alaska I bought a Mustang, I kept it when I moved back to Northern Illinois. I never ended up off the road, sure sometimes in the ice and snow it didn't handle the best, but I never had any real trouble.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Adding to that, Suzuki is one of the most fiscally responsible large manufacturers out there. Suzuki almost never borrows money, its headquarters are so spartan they do not even have reception -- visitors walk into an entry where there is a phone to call your appointment.
Kia, on the other hand, borrowed and spent like a drunken sailor. It would be gone were it not for the intervention of the South Korean government, basically compelling Hyundai to take it over.
Again, I like the SXR. I would rather buy it at around 13k as a straight fwd.
All that being said I have to admit the Kia Rio seems like a cute little car if price in a major consideration. It is one of the cars I believe looks better as a Hatchback. I don't typically care for a hatch in a small car but there are exceptions. But if price and cute and hatchback pop into my head the Aveo does seem like a better deal than a Rio. I don't understand anyone not offering Cruise control today and the Rio doesn't. I understand these little cars and not designed for open road travel as a prime consideration. But Cruise control seems to be a pretty nice feature for those times when you are on a long stretch of the road.
As far as looks go? To each his own. I find Subaru somewhat inoffensive at best. The WRX looks the part of a domestic Rally car. But Subaru must have dropped the mold with the B-9. That is one ugly SUV. Kia designs look like they should simply have the word car or vanilla on them somewhere. Not bad looking but nothing that would cause someone to take a second look as you drove down the street.
That is because they kept forcing the AWD cars to add weight until they were as slow as the other cars. :P There is a book about Audi in touring car classes and how they dominated. I think it was the Audi 200 at the time.