What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

andre1969

Thanks for clarifying that, Steve. I do remember one of you guys telling me, a year or so ago, that I had logged about 17,000 posts, whereas my profile currently says about 9800. Wow, that's scary. I need to get a life or find a hobby! :P

stever

I didn't think the post count had changed, but I'm not positive.

qbrozen

good grief! i must be slacking. with the amount of time i spend here, i would have thought i'd be near the top.

yeah, you DO need to get a life. ;b

ateixeira

I joined in early '99, so add a couple of years for me. :shades:

qbrozen

i honestly have NO idea when i joined.

bumpy

What do you do when the 2008 Scion xB is too big, too heavy, and too thirsty? Head down the road and buy a Cube.

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/afx/2007/05/22/afx3748324.html

qbrozen

Took them long enough!

Mr_Shiftright

british_rover

Whoa that is a whole new level of ugly. I thought only ssasyong could do that before now.

Mr_Shiftright

I know. I mean I realize that my xA is like a dog with one bent ear, but the Cube is a real mutt from the pound and his name is "Speedbump".

Actually, if you filled that Cube with loaves of bread or had a cardboard ice cream sign on the roof and some bells you could ring with a pull cord, it wouldn't be so bad at all.

qbrozen

i kinda like it. I think they could badge it the LR1.5

;b

bumpy

That's the old Cube. We're getting the new one.

Mr_Shiftright

The photo caption says its a 2007. Is that the old one?

texases

Yes - can't find any shots of the new one, it'll be late 2008 introduction, so it must still be under wraps.

nippononly

Are you kidding? The Cube is a WHOLE lot better-looking than the new xB. I would buy one if the fuel economy were there. Question is, will they "do a Toyota" when they release it here, putting in the engine from the Altima or something, or will they actually release it with the JDM engine and really good fuel economy?

british_rover

i kinda like it. I think they could badge it the LR1.5

Bah I am insulted or I would be but well nevermind I will let you people know later.

...when they release it here, putting in the engine from the Altima or something, or will they actually release it with the JDM engine and really good fuel economy?

Oh it won't get a JDM engine because then it would have to go through the US emissions program. They will stick the motor from the sentra or altima in it.

texases

And don't go over to the Versa discussion, where they're talking about their bad mileage...I guess 1.8l is the smallest Nissan sells here.

Mr_Shiftright

Really? How bad is the mileage they are getting? I'm pulling a steady 36 mpg lately and at $3.50 a gallon out here that is starting to matter.

texases

The auto/100% city types with new ones are getting 25 mpg - of course, those are the ones complaining. Others with more highway % or more miles on the car are getting 30-35. Versa's actually pretty big, and a good performer with the 1.8l, so I'd think 35 mpg would be great for it.

qbrozen

I would be but well nevermind I will let you people know later

oh geez... is this gonna be like one of your sales stories and we'll have to wait 3 months and then someone will remember to ask again before we finally find out what's up?

british_rover

All will be revealed shortly including the sales story you are refering too.

ateixeira

I sat in an xB yesterday. Didn't like the big blind spot and the very high window sills. I don't think my kids could even see out that high window.

Gas mileage also plunged with the new engine, just 22/28. Horrible for its class. It's not even AWD!

andre1969

Gas mileage also plunged with the new engine, just 22/28. Horrible for its class. It's not even AWD!

Is that 22/28 the newly revised numbers they're supposed to start using, or the old numbers? How does the new xB get its power these days...did they just throw a Camry 2.4 under the hood or something?

ateixeira

That's exactly what they did, yes.

The 2.4l isn't the class leader in effiency that some of Toyota's other engines are.

I'm not sure if it was a 2007 or 2008 model, so you bring up a good point!

nippononly

That's the new numbers. Think 24/30 in 2007 numbers. Which still isn't that good in my book.

ateixeira

I stand corrected, thanks.

I also agree, the numbers could still be better.

boaz47

You know how I feel about etch-a-sketch designs but it might be slightly better looking than a xB. The only question I might have is as it gets towards the back it looks a bit like a element jumped the fence and got to someones xB at night. Still it does remind one of an old Helms truck.

boaz47

While researching the Cube I see it is built on a Renault platform? Renault?? No thank you very much. The French can put a whole new spin on Ugly. But at least they may have discovered how to provide parts and service.

andre1969

Aren't the new Sentra and Versa also built on Renault platforms?

british_rover

YUP.

kyfdx

Renault owns Nissan...

british_rover

No, No it is a alliance of equals...

texases

So it's a Renault Alliance??

british_rover

budum bump...

ateixeira

I think Nissan would prefer that we forget those cars.

qbrozen

Have you seen the recent Renaults? I think they've got some nice designs, personally.

ateixeira

I like the styling, but my brother owned one in Brazil recently, and one Renault per family per lifetime is more than enough, trust me.

He went to trade it for a Honda and it died on the way. The Honda employees helped push it on the lot and they took it off his hands.

scjkperry

I am considering purchasing a Versa S Sedan. Nore sure If I want to go wiht a standard or auto yet. Will be used as a commuter car, driving about 20 miles each direction about half highway and city. Looking for some usefull advice regarding this vehicle before I make the purchase.

ateixeira

Cool thing is the manual is a 6 speed. :shades:

But...I heard it's not really tuned for sportiness.

It's basically a Renault, keep that in mind.

texases

Just make sure you take the manual on an extended test drive to make sure you like the shifting, especially if there's a lot of stop-and-go involved.

Mr_Shiftright

It's interesting to me how some manual shift cars are easy to drive in traffic and some are incredibly annoying. It has to do with shifter smoothness, gearing and the engine's ability to motor along at very low rpm.

I find the xA a breeze to shift in traffic...all fingertips and toe-taps.

texases

That's one thing I miss from my long-gone GTI.

bumpy

You got paddles in the xA, or are you a finger shifter too?

Mr_Shiftright

I got an armrest installed, and yeah, I rest my arm on that and shift with a couple fingers when in traffic. It's easy. And in first gear, the car idles by itself and creeps, just like an automatic. I'm very pleased with the shifter, given that it is a cable shifter, of all things....

bumpy

Was the armrest an aftermarket thing or one of those Scion add-ons? The Accent came with a stock armrest, but I'd need an extra joint between my wrist and elbow to use it while shifting.

And in first gear, the car idles by itself and creeps, just like an automatic

That 15.26:1 reduction in 1st helps.

iluvmysephia1

yeah, I liked the shifter on the '06 Scion xA 5-speed I test drove last year. Easy shifts with no interference or hang-ups. The engine would make some growl and grunt and harsh noises on accelerator punch but I was used to that from my Kia's so no big deal.

I agree, for $14,100 that 2006 Scion would have been a good overall deal considering they hold their value so well.

I didn't have my wife on board for that deal(I made no attempt to so I must've not liked the xA enough)but she eagerly jumped on board for our March '07 deal for our '08 Lancer GTS. Pleased as punch about that.

shifty...do you like the new 2008 Scion xD as much or more than your 2005 Scion xA? I haven't decided if I like it more or not yet. Need the info.

Mr_Shiftright

The Scion xD looks very interesting and seems to have a remarkably high content level for the price--I think it's going to do very well. If I don't buy a MINI that will be my second choice. I was seriously considering buying a used EVO but the gas mileage nixed it....15 mpg of premium-only fuel @ 18,000 miles a year is a sobering prospect these days.

nippononly

If only the price had been officially announced! At the same base price as the new xB ($16,230 for the manual, including destination), for instance, I am not sure the xD is such a heck of a deal.

At $14,230, it will knock the socks off everything else in its segment, presuming it has the same quality of execution as the xA and other Scions.

Somewhere in between is the gray area.

If we had a Mini dealer in Marin I would trade the Echo for a base Cooper at the end of this year. As it is I may wait to see who can bring a 50-state diesel here next year in a small car. Can Honda do it? I am there! Maybe I would even take a look at a VW, I dunno. It would be nice to see them sell the Polo here.

Mr_Shiftright

If MINI made a turbo diesel I would order one tomorrow morning at 7 AM.

The base MINI is supposed to pull in 40 mpg, which is so close to either a hybrid or a turbo diesel rating that it might be a good transitional car until *real* 55-60 mpg turbo diesels become a reality in California.

nippononly

"*real* 55-60 mpg turbo diesels become a reality in California."

Now you've got me drooling! I hope that day comes, and comes soon. If I had any reasonable assurance that it would happen, say, in the next 2 or 3 years, I would just commit to the Echo until then. Otherwise, I want my 40 mpg car to have better handling than this Echo. Hence thoughts of a Mini or something similar - perhaps a second-gen Fit assuming Honda boosts the mpg next time and actually makes enough that I can go and buy one off the lot.