By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
wait, i thought you said the rovers are more reliable now.
oh, you know i'm kidding.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I hear stories of what it is like other places and I know I wouldn't have lasted a month.
They use "up" systems where they "call" ups and fight over them. They use liners and closers and make their salespeople work bell to bell etc.
There is a local Ford store in my area that makes the salespeople stand outside in a pagoda waiting for an up.
These salespeople are not allowed in the building unless they have a customer! Every customer get's "turned" a minimum of three times!
I hear stores like this are commonplace.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Thanks for getting back on track - remember that hosts monitor a ton of discussions so we can't be here all of the time. Self-regulation is much appreciated, and reduces the likelihood of topic closure.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
That price didn't include sales tax. They forgot it or didn't realize mine was a lease trade in.
It is not easy being a woman in our business!
It floored me too. When we went back, I thought it would be simple, just sign the papers and walk away with an $18K loan.
Did you give 100% on everything, not just the sales guy
Yep, everything.
Anyhow, if $18K would have been a good price it sounds like you got a great deal!
I don't recall the exact figures, but there was positive equity with the trade, even accounting for adding the sales tax on top of the lease buyout figure, maybe around $1500.
I continue to do business with these guys, hey why not right? This is the closest Honda dealer to me and where I take my two Hondas in for service.
Onto the next Toyota dealership. We pull in. Get out of the car. No sales guy within sight. We wander the lot for awhile, looking at Camrys and Celicas. Nice selection.
Finally, we walk into the dealership. Ask the receptionist if we could speak to a sales person. "Any avaialable new car sales person to the front desk, please", came the announcememt.
About 5 minutes later, a very young, and sheepish fellow walks up and introduces himself. He apologizes about the wait, stating that most everyone else was with a customer. He asks us how he can help. I explain that the brother and sister team accompanying me are looking to buy one car....each. His eyse light up a bit. He asks them (not me) what they had in mind. They tell him, almost in unison, a Camry (her) and a Celica (him).
He asks all the right questions....stick (yes, for him)? automatic (yes, for her)? color preferences? buying timeline? etc.
As he excuses himself to look for the right colors, tranny types, options...he asks if we would like a soda or coffee while he tracks down some cars. We decline. As he goes on his search, my two compadres mention to me that he seems a lot nicer than the first guy we encounter.
Salesperson comes back with a handful of keys. He asks us if we want to follow him out to the cars, or would prefer to wait in the showroom as he pulls them around. I reply that we'll just follow him out (mainly, so we can make a get-away if the search prooves to be a wild goose chase). As we're walking out, the car buyers are walking about 10 feet behind us, oggling the new iron we pass. Salesguy asks me what I'm doing with them...and if I'm buying too, or if I was part of the finance arm. I chuckle and say I have nothing to do with the car buying, or financing, other than moral support. He goes on to explain to me that he's fresh from sales training. He was a service writer at the dealership and decided to try sales. We were his first "solo up".
Hot diggity....quite a change from the first encounter. Still, I'm not so sure how this is going to go, either. He's a very nice guy, but......he's a green pea!
Finally, we come to the Camry, then the Celica. Luckily, they were within 20 feet of each other. Both cars are almost spot on what both buyers wanted, plus or minus a a minor option or two. He unlocks each car. Invites the buyers to sit in each respectively. Then, starts with the feature presentation of the Celica, first.....DOHC engine, HP and torque ratings...minor and major features/bennefits and options. Obviously, he's memorized the sales manual, verbatim. He then turns to the Camry....same presentation....very thorough.
Wide eyed from the new car smell, the two buyers agree to a test drive. Sales person points out all of the test drive charctersitics to focus on with, first, the Camry test drive (while I'm lounging in the back seat)...then the same with the Celica (whicle I'm "scrunched" in a poor facimile of a back seat). Again, it was straight out of the sales manual, but very professional.
Both car buyers are happy with their respective test drives. They're ready to take that next step.
Salesperson attempts a trial close..."are you interested in these two cars?" Unison reply...."yes". "Will you be buying or leasing?" "Buying!" "If we can get you into these cars today, are you willing to take delivery?"
Now, the "deer in the headlights" look comes over the newbie car buyers. I translate for them...."he's asking you if you're willing to part with your cash to buy these cars today".
They look at each other...fidget...and finally the bro-in-law says...rather timidly...."ummm, if the price is right".
Sales person says..."good....let's get an offer sheet together". He brings out the work sheets. He writes the VIN, models & MSRP of both cars on separate sheets. Then he asks another stupifying question...."what would it take to drive both cars home today?" Another dumbfounded look by our newbies. Again, I translate...."he wants you to make an offer for the cars". A minute or so goes by. I ask the salesperson if he can give us a couple of minutes alone.
I ask our car buyers what they want to offer for the cars. They ask me what would be a good offer. They've done absolutely no research and have no idea what to offer.....ARRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!
I go to the meandering salesperson and ask him if I can use a phone to make a quick phone call. He shows me to an empty cube. I call my banker, briefly explain what I'm doing, and ask him to look up the MSRP and invoice of the cars, as equipped. About 5 minutes later, I come back to our car buyers. Without knowing the market for these cars, but figuring they had plenty in stock, I tell them to offer $250 over invoice on each. They agree.
I find our sales person, who is hovering about 15 feet away, to come back to the cube. I tell our car buyers to write their offer on their respective sheets. Like good sheep, they do. Salesperson asks again if we want something to drink while he takes our offer to the Sales Manager. This time, our by now dry mouth car buyers agree. Salesperson runs off, 10 minutes later brings back sodas for everyone. But, this time, he brings the SM with him. He introduces himself. States...."you're buying two cars today, right?". "Yes". "Has (salesperson's name) treated you well?" "yes".
He goes on...."we want your business....we appreciate you coming in, and we're close on the numbers, but we need a little more to make this deal".
I look to our buyers and shrug my shoulders. They ask "how much more?" Sales manager pencils in and extra $500/car to make the deal. Then, he waits for a response.
Here's that deer in headlights look again.
Finally, I decide to move this along. I tell the SM that we're too far apart. I thank him for his time. He then states (in a nice, half chuckle way)...."OK, am I doing business with you, or them?". My in-laws know they're over their heads. Bro-in-law states that I'm now negotiating for them. SM says (and rightfully so)..."OK, so whatever price he negotiates, you're sticking to his deal, right?" "Right".
I explain again, we're buying two cars, at the same time. We're buying them today. I know he wants a bump, but I don't like the bump. SM comes back with $750 over invoice, total, for both cars. I come back with $600 over invoice ($300 each) for both cars, but I want the optional floor mats thrown in for free and two free oil changes each.
SM..."will that offer get the deal done?".
Now, my bro-in-law speaks up...."we want to shop some more"
ARRRGGGGHHH! (again).
We thank them for their time and get up to leave. Salesperson is confused. I'm confused.
But, what to do....
Difference was, they didn't put their hands on car doors, they put their hands on your arms!
Now, I think that I am content with the beater for another three years ...
:P
I'm actually emotionally invested in this story now! I hoped you took them into a corner, and did your best "snap out of it" Cher impression.
But think of how short this story would have been if bobst was their uncle.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I hear stories of what it is like other places and I know I wouldn't have lasted a month.
They use "up" systems where they "call" ups and fight over them. They use liners and closers and make their salespeople work bell to bell etc.
There is a local Ford store in my area that makes the salespeople stand outside in a pagoda waiting for an up.
These salespeople are not allowed in the building unless they have a customer! Every customer get's "turned" a minimum of three times!
I hear stores like this are commonplace.
I think it would be refreshing if for once the salesperson I bought my car from was still at the dealership a month after I bought it. I swear every car either myself or my Dad purchased, the sales person was no longer there the next time he/me brought the car back in for service. When I purchased my Mazda, I got it from someone that was the Mazda brand manager, and she was there for maybe four years before I bought my car, and of course when I brought my car back for it's first oil change, she was no longer there. This was from a Mom/Pop place (not a big dealer group).
Everyone seemed happy, until about 3 months later (by then, the new models had started arriving at the dealership), my Grandpa sees an ad on tv advertising the previous model year (same year as his), at a price that was a few hundred dollars less than dad had negotiated for him. Dad tried explaining to him that the prices had been reduced probably because the new models were out, and they wanted to clear out the previous models. Well, all Grandpa cared about was that the car was cheaper now, and dad should have gotten it for less. I think after hearing my Grandpa fussing about the price of the car, my dad vowed to never help anyone buy a car again, and I silently vowed the same thing myself!!!
You shouldn't do business with family...nor should you help family buy cars!!!
LOL! :P
Now, my bro-in-law speaks up...."we want to shop some more"
ARRRGGGGHHH! (again).
We thank them for their time and get up to leave. Salesperson is confused. I'm confused.
But, what to do....
That just recently happened to me when I was 'escorting' a friend to a Chrysler dealer recently.... got to within inches of a deal which my friend was negotiating, then she looked at me and said she wanted to shop some more. I was angry that she wasted my and sales time.... Arrghh indead!
We want both cars for 35,xxx OTD and 12 extra keys please.
Please No, don't start that story again......
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
And the Lords people said AMEN!!!!!
Also that was a good example of why you shouldn't check prices after buying.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
ARRRGGGGHHH! (again).
We thank them for their time and get up to leave. Salesperson is confused. I'm confused.
Sounds like your bro-in-law, who was now in the thick of price negotiations, realized he wanted to do some research -- something he should have done prior to that sales visit.
I'm also confused! As you were all about to walk out the door, didn't the sales manager come back with something like, "Wait! If we run our numbers one more time and can find a way to accept your original offer, will you change your minds?" Around these parts, I can't see any sales manager ultimately refusing a double sale for $250 over invoice (each) on those two particular cars, especially if they have inventory -- and more especially if the Camry was a 4-cylinder LE.
A few years ago, I interviewed a guy who worked in sales at a nearby Ford store. I think he said they had 20 salesmen and he was the second in seniority.
He had worked there eight months!
And that is pretty typical.
Does either Discovery come with Nav? That son appears to need some direction!
My brother does most of the negotiations for my PERSONAL car purchases. He enjoys going back and forth with salespeople. I am generally NOT that patient.
The problem with negotiating using a family member is when the buyer does NOT communicate all the information (like how much he/she is willing to pay) to the negotiator. That causes nothing but grief.
I tell him that we need to confer first.
Bro-in-law, sis-in-law and I huddle. My first question..."what do you want to do?". Bro-in-law states that the first dealership/salesperson said he'd beat any deal. I ask him..."do you really want to do business with that guy?...do you really think he's going to beat the deal?...do you really believe he's going to have exactly what you're looking for?"
The reply..."let's go find out". OK, my day is now officially shot. I thank the sales person and say.."we'll be in touch, one way or the other, by the end of the day". A sigh ensues from our nice salesperson.
Off to the original Toyota dealer. Along the way, I ask the in-laws..."am I negotiating, or are you, because this isn't working the way you're doing it". Their reply..."you do it". Me..."I need you guys to just nod or shake your head...nothing more". "Agreed"!
MR ABC is hanging outside and sees us pull up. He's rushing back towards us. Before he can utter a word, I tell him we're looking for a Camry and a Celica...in these colors, with this equipment. "You got'em?". He replies..."I'm sure we do". Me..."go get'em".
After about 15 minutes, Mr ABC comes out with another fist full of keys and some papers showing what they have in stock. None of what he's got is exactly what they want. But, turning to the in-laws..."which of these do you want to look at?" The pick two "kind of" close units. MR ABC says he'll pull them around for a test drive. Me...."don't need a test drive, we've already driven some like this". Mr ABC..."where?" Me...."you're competition down the road...how much you asking for yours?". Mr ABC...."well, these are our most popular models...MSRP is usually what we get for them". Me...."That isn't going to get it done." Mr ABC..."give me a number to take to my manager". Me...."$250 over invoice on each...her are my invoice numbers....with free factory floor mats and two free oil changes thrown in". MR ABC..."if I get your offer approved, will you buy today?". Quick glance over to my in-laws....they agree with a nod. Me..."write it up".
MR ABC writes up the offer. Has in-laws sign it. 10 minutes goes by....15 minutes go by....20 minutes go by. Finally, Mr. ABC comes back and says.... "Payment for the Celica will be $XXX/mo. Payment for the Camry will be $XXX/mo".
Me...."no, no, no...we don't want what the payments are. We'll get to the financing part later. We want your OTD price...everything...and I do mean everything included".
Mr ABC is kind of perturbed. He asks what his competition quoted us. I tell him...."doesn't matter...here's what we're offering...it's very close to what your competition offered....give us your last shot". Dejectedly, he goes back to his manager. While we're waiting, I ask the in-laws if they're ready to pull the trigger, because I am. They start to hesitate...stating the cars Mr ABC showed us aren't exactly what they want. It's all I could do not to stab them both in the eyes with a pen knife sitting on Mr ABC's desk.
We wait.........................................
Mr ABC finally comes back. He says he got our number. He shows it to us and it looks high to me, but I need to back out TTL. Number still looks too high. I ask..."what else is included in your number?". He says all of his cars already has "fine shine, fabric guard, pinstripes", an inflated doc fee and some other stuff I can't remember. I tell him to take all the othe stuff off, we don't want them. Mr ABC..."all our cars are equiped the same way, I can give you a discount on them, but can't take it off the price."
I get up, motion for the in-laws to get up. Me..."thanks for your time. We just aren't communicating well, though."
As we walk out, we get the run back from Mr ABC..."what will it take to get your business?". Me...."we gave it a shot, it didn't work out".
(part 4 to come...although you guys can probably guess the rest).
granted, it was over the internet, so it's not like it took a ton of the salesperson's time, however its a reason why many dealers are reluctant to give out numbers. because any dealer can undercut another by $100 if they wanted to, just to steal the deal...
-thene :sick:
As they say, no good deed goes unpunished....they had the new car fever malady. They both wanted a new car, and they wanted it now. They said they want the cars that they saw at "nice guy dealership".
I stop at a pay phone (antiques, I know...but this is before cell phones became prevalent). I call back the nice salesperson. I ask him if he's still got the cars we had looked at (by this time) a couple hours earlier. He checked. They did.
I told him to have his best price ready because we were on our way back.
We pull in...the two cars are sitting right in front, only this time, they are all shiny from a new car wash. I thought the in-laws were going to wet themselves at this juncture.
We're greeted by green pea. He asks us how our "confering" went. I said we were either going to make this happen, or there was going to be an unfortunate death in our family.
We walk into the showroom. SM is waiting at green pea's cube. He asks, "what did you decide to do?". Me...."you tell me?...last we spoke, you were at $750 over invoice for both cars...I was at $600 over invoice for both cars, including floor mats and 2 free oil changes".
SM smiles a bit....."you taking them home today?" Me..."yep....what's your doc fee?" SM...."$35". Me...."any surprises...other fees or accessories added?" SM..."No".
He looks at the in-laws, he looks at me. He offers his hand to both of them...."you just bought yourselves two nice cars...let's get you to our finance office".
I ask to use the phone again. I call me (then) wife to come pick me up.
In-laws ask if I'm going to finance with them. Me...."nope, you're on your own, now".
Wife picks me up. I tell her....you're buying me dinner and drinks. Your brother and sister shall forever more never to call me again to help them.
THE END!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
:confuse:
Why bother???
Thanks for the great story graphicguy. That one had just about everything in it!
Nothing shocks me anymore. Its a official.
If I was the internet salesperson, I would not of answered that lead anyway, because I am so nice, the customer would have me take pics of the car, find out rates, found out the height weight and wheelbase, and production date, and my dumb butt would do it, and that customer would still buy from another dealer.