How funny and sad at the same time - good people essentially screwing themselved for just a mirage of $50 savings. It basically (almost) never works and, if lucky they get back to a good dealership, if not they get sucked into XX a month with all protection packages deal.
That is soooo why I HATE shopping for a car with friends and family. Then they hate me afterward because I am such a B-word after the whole process because it would of taken all of 2 hours to buy a car from me.
I'll give out pricing over the phone but not in writing.
We are smarter than that. My approach usually works but once in awhile, I'll get a crabby person who demands a written price quote (to go wave in someone else's face).
As a buyer, I don't mind getting a verbal quote over the phone. If they change stories when I get there, I'll walk. I can still shop a verbal quote around. Last Subie I bought I stopped by to look at the screamer ad. Sales person said car had been sold so I went to another dealer who made the deal for $100 less.
Ex just bought a Subie via internet sales. Return email with a quote. Other dealers internet folks couldn't match (some were return calls, some were email replies). Got a fair trade value. Said it was the most painless car buying experience she had gone through.
Well I am going to start telling this story now. I will warn you ahead of time that you will not find out the ending till tomorrow so deal with it.
Tuesday a guy calls interested in the Z4 we have on our lot. I have mentioned this car before. It only has 8,900 miles and is a 2003. It is perfect and its original MSRP was 45,xxx. We normaly would not retail a car like that this time of year but in order to make the deal work for the new car we had to put 21,000 dollars on the Z4 for the trade which is more then that car will do at auction this time of year.
Now we have to hope we can retail out of it before the first snow fall so the clock is ticking.
The guy says he wants to drive it and will be down in 10 minutes. So I go look at the car and it is fairly dirty but no way I can get it washed before he gets here so I just make sure it has some gas and I move it up in front of the building.
He walks around the car looks at it with a microscope. Crawling around on the ground sticking his head underneath it. Running his fingers all along the paint. He notices the clear bra on the front and wants to know what that is.
He asks if it is a deffect in the paint. I explain no it is called a clear bra and is a special layer of plastic that protects the paint. The original owner had it put on.
He just shrugs his shoulders.
We take it for a drive first with the top up. He says that the car is really for his sister and can we drive down to her business so she can look at it. I ask how far away it is and he says just down the road.
It was just down the road only about 5 minutes so we pull up and he gets out to get the sister but never invites me inside.
I wait by the roadster. A couple of minutes later he comes out with three different women and any one of them could be his sister. He never introduces her so I have no idea which one is his sister. I just stand there and start showing how the top works. I show them the trunk and how even with the top down their is plenty of space. I basicly go over the whole car but I still have no idea who the buyer is.
Now they all start talking in a language I am not familar with. It wasn't a romance language so I had no hope of catching any of it.
One of them asks what I will sell the car for. I point to the window sticker and tell them, "25,995 just like it says on the sticker."
Same woman says, "No, what is the real price the BEST price."
Me: Make me a reasonable offer based on the 25,995 and I will see what we can do but keep in mind this car books out for over 30,000(I point to the suggested retail price on the sticker) and that its original MSRP was over 45,000 dollars.
When I said that one of the women got all hostile and said that one of her clients just bought a brand new one for 40,000 dollars and that I was lying.
Up until this point I had tried to stay pretty mellow and was not being hostile. I was trying to keep my cool even though I was out in front strange business on the top of the hill and it was windy and cold and I hadn't brought a jacket.
I was being accosted by three woman nit picking every flaw on the car. The only real flaw was a half palm sized junk missing from the clear bra. Other then that it was a perfect vehicle but keep that junk of missing clear bra in mind for the rest of the story.
I got a little hot at being called a liar though.
ME: I have the window sticker in the car that shows the original MSRP and I am going to show it to you right now.
I rummage around in the rear storage compartment of the Z4 and find the original sticker that shows the MSRP at 45,6xx.
ME: See this is a 3.0 Z4 with basicly every option you aren't going to buy one of these for 40,000 dollars.
She just shrugs no apology and complains about the missing junk of clear bra.
After a couple of minutes more talking between themselves one of the women says 20,000.
I ask 20,000 for what?
Her: 20,000 for the car.
Assuming this is the sister because I still haven't been introduced to anyone I just laugh since I assume it is a joke.
We have it listed for 26,000 and it books out at over 30,000.
ME: You want to pay 20,000 for this car?
Her: Oh not me it is not for me it is for her. (points at another woman)
Sister: Yup 20,000.
About 10 more minutes of arguing on the side of the hill and I am about ready to take the keys get back in the car and ask the brother if he wants me to give him a ride back to his car. The brother was obviously emberassed by how I was being treated but he didn't say anything so I almost wanted to leave him there too.
Finally the sister says she will go to 23,000 but no more.
It is not an entirely unreasonable offer and it is something I can work with so I tell her that I will go back and work some numbers out with her brother then give her a call.
She says ok and goes inside.
Brother drives back with the top down and seems much more relaxed away from his sister.
you didn't even give the first guy who gave you a great price a shot at the deal. you took your number and ran with it. You are so right. What gets me about someone like this buyer is that he could have.... at the very least.... given his local community dealer the opportunity to respond to any legitimate offer. It does not occur to many buyers what dealers and salesman have invested in a dealership. Look at the cost of modern facilities with ample service. Look at the personal emotional investment of the sales staff. I don't begrudge anyone shopping for the a price. However, there comes a time when there is a difference between buying inexpensive and being cheap.
Oh my if he read your post we would have the personal relationship with dealer debate!! Not again.
That is why a PROFESSIONAL salesperson, will be able to sell themselves, then organization then the product. I have thankfully in my career and I have said it many times, that I do not have to deal with people like that unless I want to. Now.........IF it oct31st and I am one car to a big volume bonus, oh heck ya I will give something away and get beat up at the same time. I DO NOT CARE because we are talking a nice chunk of change. But other than that, no way man.
It can be tough keeping a good attitude sometimes. When I see everyone around me selling a car today and I couldn't close a hamper lid, it gets frustrating.
I have this little quirk, I like to drive places, or fly or take a train or boat or anything I just like to see different areas. So if someone wants to buy a car from me ( located in SE Virginia - big competitor with Mackabee ) I'll volunteer to drive it to them. If it's worth the time.
The first instance was back in June 2003 when the new Sienna's came out and there was a 60 day waiting list for the loaded XLE's w/ DVD. A woman called to say that she was 8 mo's pregnant and she had to have a specific color XLE w/ DVD by her due date. Hey we had one coming in within 3 weeks exactly as she wanted it. Well she had called every Toyota store from NoLa to Miami to Chesapeake ( US ) and noone had one. But we did and we could have it for her before the baby was due. But one little detail... she was in Atlanta.
Road Trip!!!!
My wife and I drove it down to her one Friday then we drove back to VA the next day. No, they never offered us as much as a dinner at Outback or even McDonalds for our efforts. I didn't ask either because it would have been gauche to do so.
So this year a participant on these forums emails me that she has to have a Hybrid Camry in a certain color, of course by a certain date. By chance, due to our size, we do have exactly the vehicle enroute, so we conclude the deal over the phone with a cc deposit.
Cincinatti this time.
However complications arise. The truck with the vehicle is a day late, then two days late, then 4 days late and we are at the absolute 'drop dead' date when the truck rolls in at 7 AM.
I have to be on the road by Noon latest to be in Cinci by Midnight. The PDI and clean up and gas up all have to be done first as well. Well it's 1:30 before I hit the road heading west on I64. But's its a beautiful spring day and it's my first extended ride in the new Hybrid Camry so frankly it's a blast!! At Midnight I pull into our rendevous place where we complete the paperwork, exchange SKS fobs for a check.... then I do the normal delivery process including the test drive since almost no one has even driven the new TCH even on test drives. It was purchased WITHOUT A TEST DRIVE :shades: ( couldn't resist ). Well the process takes 90 min or so to familiarize her with the vehicle and its operation and we each have to be on separate planes to opposite coasts in 5 hours and she still has to go home.
It was from my pov a wonderful experience. Ahhh .. she had prepaid my hotel room and airfare back to the E Coast the next day. It was unnecessary but I got it there just in time.
NoT ONE UP TODAY! The only person who is here now is a crazy lady who we BVA'D for a weekend and kept the car for 5 DAYS and called the owner because we would not sell it for invoice plus free tint and LOJACK. Whole other story. To be honest I am only here because we have a firewall on our computers and this is the only site that is in anyway fun.
I agree, I am the first to drive to Houston or Austin or anyway in between. I sold a TDI Passat to a VIP in Houston and I drove from Dallas down. My customer was a girl my age and she took off for the day, and Ooh wee went to The houston galleria to shop, went to a pub for drinks and lunch and she flew me back about 4 hours later. It was a Blast!
I know it's off topic but our firewall at work is screwy. It blocks YouTube, but not Google Video. But then on Google Video, all the preview thumbnails are blocked. It blocks games.slashdot.org, but not slashdot.org. Wierd.
I get back to the dealership with the brother and we sit down at my desk.
I write up what we talked about and then go talk to our used car manager.
I tell her what happend and we work out a counter offer of $24,200.
I sit down with the brother and go over the numbers. He seems to think that is a reasonable offer and says I should call his sister.
I call her and tell her what we have worked out.
Sister: No, 23,000 and I want the front of the car fixed.
Me: What front of the car I don't understand.
Sister: The missing plastic part I want that fixed. It looks ugly with that missing piece and I won't buy the car with it the way it is.
(keep in mind this little bit of clear bra missing is less then the size of my palm. I never even noticed it till today and you really have to get down level with it and squint to see it. The light has to be just right as well or you won't see it.)
ME: I have no idea what it would cost to fix that part of the clear bra but I could find out and let you know. Then you can fix it later on if you want.
Sister: No 23,000 and fix the front of the car. I don't need this car I just want it. I don't have to buy it my husband wants to buy me an M5 but I like this better. So you sell it to me for 23,000 today or I don't want it. I don't need to drive it I have a ML to drive everyday this only gonna be summer car.
She hangs up.
I look at the brother and he just kind of shurgs his shoulders at me. I guess he has been dealing with this his whole life.
Me and the brother make small talk for a few minutes while I think things over. He is a good guy I actually like working with him and he seems very reasonable. I figure maybe I can Work out something between 23,000 and the 24,200 give all of the figures to the brother and have him show it to the sister.
I stopped at my local Honda dealer on Tuesday and was looking at the '07 CR-Vs. My wifes SUV is approaching 40,000 miles and would like to get her something new (even though it's getting tough to pry her out of her present vehicle - she likes it so much).
It was around 10 AM and there were a few people on the lot but only one salesman, as far as I could see. He seemed to look a little harried. When I drove into the lot he took a quick glance at me.
I proceeded to look at the CR-Vs they had sitting on the lot while the salesman went about his business. They had 4, 4WD EXs in different colors - all with no opitons listed on the stickers. They also had one EX-L that said on the sticker "Demo Only - Not For Sale" whatever that means, other than the obvious.
Finally the salesman got close to me as he was going into the showroom. I said "Good morning". He replied with "Hey", and went inside.
He didn't say "I'll be with you in a few minutes", I'm really busy and I don't know how long I will be", "Can you come back later", "I hate you and don't want to sell you a car" - just "Hey".
I didn't know what to do so I left.
I drove into the lot in my '05 BMW all freshly washed and was wearing ratty sneakers, jeans, a sweatshirt, and a ball cap since I was my way to the baseball field we are building.
I guess I'll try again when I go past and there aren't any customers there, but I have to admit that this is the first time I have ever been in a car lot where someone didn't at least ask me what I was interested in.
here is a good reason why dealers are so reluctant to hand out prices. you didn't even give the first guy who gave you a great price a shot at the deal. you took your number and ran with it.
I agree that the customer should have given the first guy a chance to match price but we all know that customers don’t always do the proper thing. If I were in the biz I wouldn’t like it either but you have to admit this sort of thing happens often enough that you are almost hardened to it. If you aren’t, how else could you stay in the biz?
however its a reason why many dealers are reluctant to give out numbers. because any dealer can undercut another by $100 if they wanted to, just to steal the deal...
We have all heard this complaint many times. I have to believe that for every sale that gets away because a customer shops your price around, you ‘steal’ one from a competitor because a customer is shopping the other guys’ price around. If you tell me you don’t do business like this I will tell you that you won’t be in business much longer. Your business, probably more that any other business, is forced to do this or you will surely be closing your doors, soon.
So, in the end it’s a wash isn’t it?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Well, if it was me, I'd consider ~$2K profit to be acceptable and just get it over with. Why? Because, as you said, the car won't sell once it starts getting cold and nasty, and a month goes by and another and it's 2007 and the value keeps creeping downward... And you have to unload it when you could have something else on the lot in its place - because keeping it until spring obviously isn't an option.
At least that's my take on it. I prefer to have a done deal as opposed to "maybe it'll sell next week".
venture, from personal experience all I can say is that the guy probably did you a favor - if your wife likes her present ride so much, leave well enough alone!
IF it oct31st and I am one car to a big volume bonus, oh heck ya I will give something away and get beat up at the same time. I DO NOT CARE because we are talking a nice chunk of change.
Is there a reason why sales people always seems to be scrambling at the end of the month to make a sale so that they can ‘make their numbers’ and get that ‘bonus’? I would think that if you didn’t turn away doable deals on the 1 st, 7 th, 13 th, 18 th, etc., this give-away on the last day of the month wouldn’t exist.
It kinda reminds me of when we were kids going to school and we were given an assignment that was due at the end of the month. Instead of doing a little bit of it as the month progressed we waited until the last night to do it. Be honest now we all did this, right? Was it worth the stress and usually a lower grade when we did this, NO! After a while even I caught on and started the little bit each day method.
I know it might sound like I’m telling you how to do your business but what am I missing here?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
would think that if you didn’t turn away doable deals on the 1 st, 7 th, 13 th, 18 th, etc., this give-away on the last day of the month wouldn’t exist.
The key term here is HOPE. Hope to score big on your next deal. So on 1st, 7th, 12th, 18th they will turn away doable deales in HOPE of scoring better. Then 28th comes and they are xx cars away from target/bonus/etc., so they scramble.
It's not nesessarily sales people - it can be management, too (or likely it is management).
IMO, you're implying that a salesman would turn away business intentionally and wait on business at the last of the month? I don't know of any commission salesman that would turn away a deal that makes sense for them and the house. A good salesman wants a steady full month of sales. Also, the domestic manufactors' are known to wait until the second half of the month to ratchet up incentives and pull buyers in the market.
The key term here is HOPE. Hope to score big on your next deal. So on 1st, 7th, 12th, 18th they will turn away doable deales in HOPE of scoring better. Then 28th comes and they are xx cars away from target/bonus/etc., so they scramble
Is it not right to just about always assume that a buyer should, if possible, wait 'till the last day or two of the month, or quarter, to negotiate for a new car?
Not in the business, but hardly anything is absolute. There are rules of thumb, but their applications would depend on a lot of variables: brand (I would not expect luxury brands working same way as non-lux), general volume (I would expect volume brands/dealers be more "end of the month" driven than say small town or small brand dealers), etc. Sometimes they may hit their target at 28th, so coming on 30th would be like coming on 1st. I'd say one should not expect miracles - just be open for possibilities and keep eyes and ears open.
I stopped at my local Honda dealer on Tuesday and was looking at the '07 CR-Vs. My wifes SUV is approaching 40,000 miles and would like to get her something new (even though it's getting tough to pry her out of her present vehicle - she likes it so much).
It only has 40K miles and your wife likes it so why get rid of it? Unless its a :lemon: and you are spending way to much time/money/effort to keep it running why trade?Fiscally its not that great of an ideal.
Maybe I was "profiled"?
Maybe not, when I go to the Honda dealerships here I usually am left alone, even when I am dressed nice and drive up in a Caddy and the dealership is devoid of customers.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Well, if it was me, I'd consider ~$2K profit to be acceptable and just get it over with.
Just remember that its not a $2K profit as there are expenses associated with preping the car for sale and then the sales expenses.
Because, as you said, the car won't sell once it starts getting cold and nasty, and a month goes by and another and it's 2007 and the value keeps creeping downward
On the other side of that coin a few months later it starts warming up and more people are willing o part with more money for that ragtop. It might be worth their while to hold onto it until spring and sell it if they could get a few thousand more.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I agree that the customer should have given the first guy a chance to match price but we all know that customers don’t always do the proper thing. If I were in the biz I wouldn’t like it either but you have to admit this sort of thing happens often enough that you are almost hardened to it. If you aren’t, how else could you stay in the biz?
gee, it sounds like you are giving the customer a free pass to be the way they are...but if a SALESPERSON acted that way, boy, would they be reemed out by the masses...
so a salesperson has to be nice and friendly and do everything the customer asks, but a customer can be rude and demanding and inconsiderate, and we have to take it or get out of the biz?
its a sad state of humanity, if thats what you think...
Sales managers.... it's the sales managers. They pass on deals early in the month that they might take later in the month.
Why? Because they may not have to take the skinny deals if the salesmen sell them a ton of cars. They want to keep their gross profit average up and some of those smaller deals don't make sense early on.
I understand that it might seem like procrastination. However, it's just the nature of the beast. They aren't going to do it unless they have to. (Except you'll hear some salesman screaming the exact same thing you said.)
so a salesperson has to be nice and friendly and do everything the customer asks, but a customer can be rude and demanding and inconsiderate, and we have to take it or get out of the biz?
Thene,
I may be missing your point a little, but I kinda agree with that quote to a point. I do think the salesman should take the high road (although we don't all the time) and that the customer is always right (provided he doesn't curse at me or sleep with my wife).
Are you saying it's silly to tell someone to get out of the business because they aren't happy with customers sometimes? If so, I totally agree. I stated early on, you gotta vent sometimes.
Someone asked if any of us buyers have any stories where it didn't turn out as a "happy ending" on a car purchase.
These boards are littered with them. But, we all learn from our mistakes.
Briefly, I've been burned by my share of deals (how else do you learn how to avoid the pitfalls). Some of them by private sellers....some from dealerships.
I've bought "mop and glo" for the way inflated prices. I even bought a previously "wrecked" NEW Datsun (that's right, Datsun) 280Z for full tilt MSRP plus "dealer installed options".
On the Z, I made all the mistakes. Fell in love with the car. Didn't shop around. Bought it from a High School "friend" (who I was sure wouldn't screw me) who was working in sales at the dealership. That friend/sales person was a girl I used to date in high school (I thought we parted on good terms).
Ended up, right before I was to take delivery of the Z, the day after I put a deposit down on it, I noticed the car had major swirls in the paint that weren't there the day before (when I test drove it). The car also smelled like body shop (you know the smell).
I asked my "friend" what the swirls were all about when I came to take delivery of the car. She said they probably just used a "dirty" pad when putting on the "mop and glo". She said she'd schedule an appointment with the detail guys to get it cleaned up. But, I had to take delivery of the car that day. I agreed.
Fast forward a couple of weeks. I'm at the dealership's detail dept (which was the same as the body shop) getting the swirls removed. One of the detail guys asks me why I bought this particular car, as it had been in a wreck (reminder, this was a new car).
After quizzing him about the alleged wreck, he reluctantly told me he thought this was a car that had been taken on a test drive (supposedly, after I left my deposit on it). The test driver side swiped another car at an elevated speed. The whole passenger side had to be redone. He remembered it because my friend/sales person brought the car into the body shop and asked if they could repair it in a day. They did....just in time for me to take delivery of it, the next day.
My friend sales person was off that day. But, she was still living with her parents. I had spent many a day/night at their home. I called her at home and quizzed her about the detail guy's story. She assured me that my car wasn't the car he was talking about. Of course, I believed her.
They didn't do a very good job on the swirls. I just wanted that car so badly, I figured I could buff them out myself (I couldn't). Drove it home.
A couple of years later, the paint was peeling off the passenger side. I took it into an independent body shop to see what a repaint would cost, since the car was out of warranty by this time. And, my sales friend had long since left the dealership. Dealership I bought it from had since been sold to someone else, who claimed no knowledge of my "issue". The independent shop asked what kind of accident I had been in. I told them no accident. They proceeded to show me all the overspray, the bondo, and the remnants of the body work.
5 years later, at a HS reunion, I ran into my "friend". I asked her about the Z. She laughed and said I was her highest gross on any car she ever sold. She thought it was funny. I didn't.
That was my big lesson in learning who to trust...who not to trust.
Last I heard, after bouncing around just about every dealership in SW OH, she ended up selling used cars in Miami.
Anyone who lives down there, her name is Elaine. Stay away.
You see it is not a 2,000 dollar profit not even a 2,000 dollar gross profit.
We paid 21,000 for the car but after safety inspeciton, oil change, painless dent removal of one dent and some scratches on the passenger door we own the car for 21,500.
Now that is a 1,500 dollar gross deal but we haven't fixed the clear bra yet. Fixing the clear bra will cost between 300 and 600 dollars depending on if we have to replace the whole kit or just half the kit.
Now it is a 1,200 dollar deal or a 900 dollar deal. It has been a mini to me from the get go but it still matters to the store as 1,200 or 900 dollars is not a high enough average for a retail sale. We haven't even gotten to wash and detail which is another $150 and does come out of the gross of the deal. After that there are all of the expenses that don't come out of the gross of the deal but are listed as delivery expenses. These include gasing the car, paying me etc.
After it is all said and done we are basicly breaking even on the car or possibly losing just a tiny bit of money. We would probably lose more at the auction now and we will definetly lose more at the auction if it goes there next month.
Is there a reason why sales people always seems to be scrambling at the end of the month to make a sale so that they can ‘make their numbers’ and get that ‘bonus’?
I don't know maybe dealerships like to wait to the end of the month to do this. Currently I have this dealership wanting to correct something by month end close (today) for something that should have been addressed 6 months ago. :mad:
I'm really getting to hate dealerships.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Oh my god, graphicguy. What a brutal story. Who broke up with who in that relationship?
There's a saying among some car guys and it goes like this, "If you can't make money off your friends and family, who CAN you make money off?" Typically, the person who says this, follows up with uproarious laughter.
I HATE this saying. Sounds like 'Elaine' lived up to it. I hope you realize, graphicguy, you have now ruined all salesladies named Elaine in Miami.
-Moo
P.S. When she was laughing in your face at the reunion, what did you do? Also, had she been drinking?
yeah, it sounded better in my head than in writing :P
no longer a salesperson though, its been over a year now since i left the biz...
i know the salesperson needs to take the high road, not saying they shouldn't. but that doesn't give the customer the right to treat salespeople like crap just because someone said "the customer is always right"
LOL, looks like you thought wrong. I'm guessing you broke up with her... and then you buy a car from her? Not a good move. Her eyes probably got as big as saucers when she saw you walk onto the lot.
I asked her about the Z... she laughed...thought it was funny.
Does this Elaine happen to have a brother in sales that goes by the nickname "Psycho"? Sounds like it must run in the family. You entertain any ideas of dunking Elaines head in the punch bowl... you know... just because it might be "funny"?
yeah, it sounded better in my head than in writing
Ya, this seems to happen a lot with the things I say to my wife.
No, it doesn't give the customer free rein to do whatever they want. The salesman can always walk away from anyone as well. That's our perogative and the customers.
I've seen several salespeople launch folks out the front door because they were being rude. I've also seen salespeople use their silver tongues and get those customers back on the road to a sale. Takes all kinds.
Ya it usually goes like this. Someone offers 500 over invoice on a A4, and we say thank you but no thank you, in the beginning of the month, especially when we are averaging 2000 Front Profit, and on course to meet or exceed our objective. Then, on the 30th deals on order cars are not going until after the 1st, or we have reinstatements, and then we all scramble for the last few deals. So managers hit us up and say"Will Bubba still do the deal at five over" THen I have to find BUBBA and have to deal with the "Ya'll could of took it 3 weeks ago" blah blah blah. Plus We work on stackable bonuses and when you get to five a payperiod and beyond the money is SICK!
THen I have to find BUBBA and have to deal with the "Ya'll could of took it 3 weeks ago" blah blah blah.
On question, when you do that what would you say would be your rate of sales? What is the percentage of those you call back one, two or three weeks later accepting their offer that buy?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Comments
2018 430i Gran Coupe
You never know he might get out there often enough to make it worth his while.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
you have saved us. After 400 posts going nowhere I was really looking forward to parts 2, 3 and 4. You are Da MAN
Sincerely,
Moo
We are smarter than that. My approach usually works but once in awhile, I'll get a crabby person who demands a written price quote (to go wave in someone else's face).
Sorry!
Ex just bought a Subie via internet sales. Return email with a quote. Other dealers internet folks couldn't match (some were return calls, some were email replies). Got a fair trade value. Said it was the most painless car buying experience she had gone through.
Tuesday a guy calls interested in the Z4 we have on our lot. I have mentioned this car before. It only has 8,900 miles and is a 2003. It is perfect and its original MSRP was 45,xxx. We normaly would not retail a car like that this time of year but in order to make the deal work for the new car we had to put 21,000 dollars on the Z4 for the trade which is more then that car will do at auction this time of year.
Now we have to hope we can retail out of it before the first snow fall so the clock is ticking.
The guy says he wants to drive it and will be down in 10 minutes. So I go look at the car and it is fairly dirty but no way I can get it washed before he gets here so I just make sure it has some gas and I move it up in front of the building.
He walks around the car looks at it with a microscope. Crawling around on the ground sticking his head underneath it. Running his fingers all along the paint. He notices the clear bra on the front and wants to know what that is.
He asks if it is a deffect in the paint. I explain no it is called a clear bra and is a special layer of plastic that protects the paint. The original owner had it put on.
He just shrugs his shoulders.
We take it for a drive first with the top up. He says that the car is really for his sister and can we drive down to her business so she can look at it. I ask how far away it is and he says just down the road.
It was just down the road only about 5 minutes so we pull up and he gets out to get the sister but never invites me inside.
I wait by the roadster. A couple of minutes later he comes out with three different women and any one of them could be his sister. He never introduces her so I have no idea which one is his sister. I just stand there and start showing how the top works. I show them the trunk and how even with the top down their is plenty of space. I basicly go over the whole car but I still have no idea who the buyer is.
Now they all start talking in a language I am not familar with. It wasn't a romance language so I had no hope of catching any of it.
One of them asks what I will sell the car for. I point to the window sticker and tell them, "25,995 just like it says on the sticker."
Same woman says, "No, what is the real price the BEST price."
Me: Make me a reasonable offer based on the 25,995 and I will see what we can do but keep in mind this car books out for over 30,000(I point to the suggested retail price on the sticker) and that its original MSRP was over 45,000 dollars.
When I said that one of the women got all hostile and said that one of her clients just bought a brand new one for 40,000 dollars and that I was lying.
Up until this point I had tried to stay pretty mellow and was not being hostile. I was trying to keep my cool even though I was out in front strange business on the top of the hill and it was windy and cold and I hadn't brought a jacket.
I was being accosted by three woman nit picking every flaw on the car. The only real flaw was a half palm sized junk missing from the clear bra. Other then that it was a perfect vehicle but keep that junk of missing clear bra in mind for the rest of the story.
I got a little hot at being called a liar though.
ME: I have the window sticker in the car that shows the original MSRP and I am going to show it to you right now.
I rummage around in the rear storage compartment of the Z4 and find the original sticker that shows the MSRP at 45,6xx.
ME: See this is a 3.0 Z4 with basicly every option you aren't going to buy one of these for 40,000 dollars.
She just shrugs no apology and complains about the missing junk of clear bra.
After a couple of minutes more talking between themselves one of the women says 20,000.
I ask 20,000 for what?
Her: 20,000 for the car.
Assuming this is the sister because I still haven't been introduced to anyone I just laugh since I assume it is a joke.
We have it listed for 26,000 and it books out at over 30,000.
ME: You want to pay 20,000 for this car?
Her: Oh not me it is not for me it is for her.
(points at another woman)
Sister: Yup 20,000.
About 10 more minutes of arguing on the side of the hill and I am about ready to take the keys get back in the car and ask the brother if he wants me to give him a ride back to his car. The brother was obviously emberassed by how I was being treated but he didn't say anything so I almost wanted to leave him there too.
Finally the sister says she will go to 23,000 but no more.
It is not an entirely unreasonable offer and it is something I can work with so I tell her that I will go back and work some numbers out with her brother then give her a call.
She says ok and goes inside.
Brother drives back with the top down and seems much more relaxed away from his sister.
I don't have your patience.
For some people, the almighty dollar is all that is important.
That is why a PROFESSIONAL salesperson, will be able to sell themselves, then organization then the product. I have
thankfully in my career and I have said it many times, that I do not have to deal with people like that unless I want to. Now.........IF it oct31st and I am one car to a big volume bonus, oh heck ya I will give something away and get beat up at the same time. I DO NOT CARE because we are talking a nice chunk of change. But other than that, no way man.
-Moo
I'll take donations and hugs. Thanks.
-Moo
The first instance was back in June 2003 when the new Sienna's came out and there was a 60 day waiting list for the loaded XLE's w/ DVD. A woman called to say that she was 8 mo's pregnant and she had to have a specific color XLE w/ DVD by her due date. Hey we had one coming in within 3 weeks exactly as she wanted it. Well she had called every Toyota store from NoLa to Miami to Chesapeake ( US ) and noone had one. But we did and we could have it for her before the baby was due. But one little detail... she was in Atlanta.
Road Trip!!!!
My wife and I drove it down to her one Friday then we drove back to VA the next day. No, they never offered us as much as a dinner at Outback or even McDonalds for our efforts. I didn't ask either because it would have been gauche to do so.
So this year a participant on these forums emails me that she has to have a Hybrid Camry in a certain color, of course by a certain date. By chance, due to our size, we do have exactly the vehicle enroute, so we conclude the deal over the phone with a cc deposit.
Cincinatti this time.
However complications arise. The truck with the vehicle is a day late, then two days late, then 4 days late and we are at the absolute 'drop dead' date when the truck rolls in at 7 AM.
I have to be on the road by Noon latest to be in Cinci by Midnight. The PDI and clean up and gas up all have to be done first as well. Well it's 1:30 before I hit the road heading west on I64. But's its a beautiful spring day and it's my first extended ride in the new Hybrid Camry so frankly it's a blast!! At Midnight I pull into our rendevous place where we complete the paperwork, exchange SKS fobs for a check.... then I do the normal delivery process including the test drive since almost no one has even driven the new TCH even on test drives. It was purchased WITHOUT A TEST DRIVE :shades: ( couldn't resist ). Well the process takes 90 min or so to familiarize her with the vehicle and its operation and we each have to be on separate planes to opposite coasts in 5 hours and she still has to go home.
It was from my pov a wonderful experience. Ahhh .. she had prepaid my hotel room and airfare back to the E Coast the next day. It was unnecessary but I got it there just in time.
The $10,000 diamond engagement ring....
kdhspyder
I feel for ya. And it's why I got out of the commissioned sales business.
Rofl!! Me too! I can't even google~!??!?!?
Glad we don't have any nanny software on our computers at work.
That was close, I didn't think you were going to get that 'test drive' thing past Security.
Good tale though but that was no surprise to me, you always have good tales.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
OK, resume funny stories!
I write up what we talked about and then go talk to our used car manager.
I tell her what happend and we work out a counter offer of $24,200.
I sit down with the brother and go over the numbers. He seems to think that is a reasonable offer and says I should call his sister.
I call her and tell her what we have worked out.
Sister: No, 23,000 and I want the front of the car fixed.
Me: What front of the car I don't understand.
Sister: The missing plastic part I want that fixed. It looks ugly with that missing piece and I won't buy the car with it the way it is.
(keep in mind this little bit of clear bra missing is less then the size of my palm. I never even noticed it till today and you really have to get down level with it and squint to see it. The light has to be just right as well or you won't see it.)
ME: I have no idea what it would cost to fix that part of the clear bra but I could find out and let you know. Then you can fix it later on if you want.
Sister: No 23,000 and fix the front of the car. I don't need this car I just want it. I don't have to buy it my husband wants to buy me an M5 but I like this better. So you sell it to me for 23,000 today or I don't want it. I don't need to drive it I have a ML to drive everyday this only gonna be summer car.
She hangs up.
I look at the brother and he just kind of shurgs his shoulders at me. I guess he has been dealing with this his whole life.
Me and the brother make small talk for a few minutes while I think things over. He is a good guy I actually like working with him and he seems very reasonable. I figure maybe I can Work out something between 23,000 and the 24,200 give all of the figures to the brother and have him show it to the sister.
Part three tomorrow.
It was around 10 AM and there were a few people on the lot but only one salesman, as far as I could see. He seemed to look a little harried. When I drove into the lot he took a quick glance at me.
I proceeded to look at the CR-Vs they had sitting on the lot while the salesman went about his business. They had 4, 4WD EXs in different colors - all with no opitons listed on the stickers. They also had one EX-L that said on the sticker "Demo Only - Not For Sale" whatever that means, other than the obvious.
Finally the salesman got close to me as he was going into the showroom. I said "Good morning". He replied with "Hey", and went inside.
He didn't say "I'll be with you in a few minutes", I'm really busy and I don't know how long I will be", "Can you come back later", "I hate you and don't want to sell you a car" - just "Hey".
I didn't know what to do so I left.
I drove into the lot in my '05 BMW all freshly washed and was wearing ratty sneakers, jeans, a sweatshirt, and a ball cap since I was my way to the baseball field we are building.
I guess I'll try again when I go past and there aren't any customers there, but I have to admit that this is the first time I have ever been in a car lot where someone didn't at least ask me what I was interested in.
Maybe I was "profiled"? :confuse:
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
I agree that the customer should have given the first guy a chance to match price but we all know that customers don’t always do the proper thing. If I were in the biz I wouldn’t like it either but you have to admit this sort of thing happens often enough that you are almost hardened to it. If you aren’t, how else could you stay in the biz?
however its a reason why many dealers are reluctant to give out numbers. because any dealer can undercut another by $100 if they wanted to, just to steal the deal...
We have all heard this complaint many times. I have to believe that for every sale that gets away because a customer shops your price around, you ‘steal’ one from a competitor because a customer is shopping the other guys’ price around. If you tell me you don’t do business like this I will tell you that you won’t be in business much longer. Your business, probably more that any other business, is forced to do this or you will surely be closing your doors, soon.
So, in the end it’s a wash isn’t it?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
At least that's my take on it. I prefer to have a done deal as opposed to "maybe it'll sell next week".
P.S. yes, they were rude. It happens.
Is there a reason why sales people always seems to be scrambling at the end of the month to make a sale so that they can ‘make their numbers’ and get that ‘bonus’? I would think that if you didn’t turn away doable deals on the 1 st, 7 th, 13 th, 18 th, etc., this give-away on the last day of the month wouldn’t exist.
It kinda reminds me of when we were kids going to school and we were given an assignment that was due at the end of the month. Instead of doing a little bit of it as the month progressed we waited until the last night to do it. Be honest now we all did this, right? Was it worth the stress and usually a lower grade when we did this, NO! After a while even I caught on and started the little bit each day method.
I know it might sound like I’m telling you how to do your business but what am I missing here?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The key term here is HOPE. Hope to score big on your next deal. So on 1st, 7th, 12th, 18th they will turn away doable deales in HOPE of scoring better. Then 28th comes and they are xx cars away from target/bonus/etc., so they scramble.
It's not nesessarily sales people - it can be management, too (or likely it is management).
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Is it not right to just about always assume that a buyer should, if possible, wait 'till the last day or two of the month, or quarter, to negotiate for a new car?
2018 430i Gran Coupe
It only has 40K miles and your wife likes it so why get rid of it? Unless its a :lemon: and you are spending way to much time/money/effort to keep it running why trade?Fiscally its not that great of an ideal.
Maybe I was "profiled"?
Maybe not, when I go to the Honda dealerships here I usually am left alone, even when I am dressed nice and drive up in a Caddy and the dealership is devoid of customers.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Just remember that its not a $2K profit as there are expenses associated with preping the car for sale and then the sales expenses.
Because, as you said, the car won't sell once it starts getting cold and nasty, and a month goes by and another and it's 2007 and the value keeps creeping downward
On the other side of that coin a few months later it starts warming up and more people are willing o part with more money for that ragtop. It might be worth their while to hold onto it until spring and sell it if they could get a few thousand more.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Lol! If only people were so honest. That's a weird situation though. It's hard to believe that a store would only keep 1 salesman on the floor.
gee, it sounds like you are giving the customer a free pass to be the way they are...but if a SALESPERSON acted that way, boy, would they be reemed out by the masses...
so a salesperson has to be nice and friendly and do everything the customer asks, but a customer can be rude and demanding and inconsiderate, and we have to take it or get out of the biz?
its a sad state of humanity, if thats what you think...
-thene :sick:
Why? Because they may not have to take the skinny deals if the salesmen sell them a ton of cars. They want to keep their gross profit average up and some of those smaller deals don't make sense early on.
I understand that it might seem like procrastination. However, it's just the nature of the beast. They aren't going to do it unless they have to. (Except you'll hear some salesman screaming the exact same thing you said.)
-Moo
Thene,
I may be missing your point a little, but I kinda agree with that quote to a point. I do think the salesman should take the high road (although we don't all the time) and that the customer is always right (provided he doesn't curse at me or sleep with my wife).
Are you saying it's silly to tell someone to get out of the business because they aren't happy with customers sometimes? If so, I totally agree.
Happy selling on the 3rd of November!
-Moo
These boards are littered with them. But, we all learn from our mistakes.
Briefly, I've been burned by my share of deals (how else do you learn how to avoid the pitfalls). Some of them by private sellers....some from dealerships.
I've bought "mop and glo" for the way inflated prices. I even bought a previously "wrecked" NEW Datsun (that's right, Datsun) 280Z for full tilt MSRP plus "dealer installed options".
On the Z, I made all the mistakes. Fell in love with the car. Didn't shop around. Bought it from a High School "friend" (who I was sure wouldn't screw me) who was working in sales at the dealership. That friend/sales person was a girl I used to date in high school (I thought we parted on good terms).
Ended up, right before I was to take delivery of the Z, the day after I put a deposit down on it, I noticed the car had major swirls in the paint that weren't there the day before (when I test drove it). The car also smelled like body shop (you know the smell).
I asked my "friend" what the swirls were all about when I came to take delivery of the car. She said they probably just used a "dirty" pad when putting on the "mop and glo". She said she'd schedule an appointment with the detail guys to get it cleaned up. But, I had to take delivery of the car that day. I agreed.
Fast forward a couple of weeks. I'm at the dealership's detail dept (which was the same as the body shop) getting the swirls removed. One of the detail guys asks me why I bought this particular car, as it had been in a wreck (reminder, this was a new car).
After quizzing him about the alleged wreck, he reluctantly told me he thought this was a car that had been taken on a test drive (supposedly, after I left my deposit on it). The test driver side swiped another car at an elevated speed. The whole passenger side had to be redone. He remembered it because my friend/sales person brought the car into the body shop and asked if they could repair it in a day. They did....just in time for me to take delivery of it, the next day.
My friend sales person was off that day. But, she was still living with her parents. I had spent many a day/night at their home. I called her at home and quizzed her about the detail guy's story. She assured me that my car wasn't the car he was talking about. Of course, I believed her.
They didn't do a very good job on the swirls. I just wanted that car so badly, I figured I could buff them out myself (I couldn't). Drove it home.
A couple of years later, the paint was peeling off the passenger side. I took it into an independent body shop to see what a repaint would cost, since the car was out of warranty by this time. And, my sales friend had long since left the dealership. Dealership I bought it from had since been sold to someone else, who claimed no knowledge of my "issue". The independent shop asked what kind of accident I had been in. I told them no accident. They proceeded to show me all the overspray, the bondo, and the remnants of the body work.
5 years later, at a HS reunion, I ran into my "friend". I asked her about the Z. She laughed and said I was her highest gross on any car she ever sold. She thought it was funny. I didn't.
That was my big lesson in learning who to trust...who not to trust.
Last I heard, after bouncing around just about every dealership in SW OH, she ended up selling used cars in Miami.
Anyone who lives down there, her name is Elaine. Stay away.
We paid 21,000 for the car but after safety inspeciton, oil change, painless dent removal of one dent and some scratches on the passenger door we own the car for 21,500.
Now that is a 1,500 dollar gross deal but we haven't fixed the clear bra yet. Fixing the clear bra will cost between 300 and 600 dollars depending on if we have to replace the whole kit or just half the kit.
Now it is a 1,200 dollar deal or a 900 dollar deal. It has been a mini to me from the get go but it still matters to the store as 1,200 or 900 dollars is not a high enough average for a retail sale. We haven't even gotten to wash and detail which is another $150 and does come out of the gross of the deal. After that there are all of the expenses that don't come out of the gross of the deal but are listed as delivery expenses. These include gasing the car, paying me etc.
After it is all said and done we are basicly breaking even on the car or possibly losing just a tiny bit of money. We would probably lose more at the auction now and we will definetly lose more at the auction if it goes there next month.
Part three is coming.
I don't know maybe dealerships like to wait to the end of the month to do this. Currently I have this dealership wanting to correct something by month end close (today) for something that should have been addressed 6 months ago. :mad:
I'm really getting to hate dealerships.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I have never, once delivered a new car to a customer.
I have paid a couple of taxi bills but I sure don't have the time to drive anywhere!
There's a saying among some car guys and it goes like this, "If you can't make money off your friends and family, who CAN you make money off?" Typically, the person who says this, follows up with uproarious laughter.
I HATE this saying. Sounds like 'Elaine' lived up to it. I hope you realize, graphicguy, you have now ruined all salesladies named Elaine in Miami.
-Moo
P.S. When she was laughing in your face at the reunion, what did you do? Also, had she been drinking?
no longer a salesperson though, its been over a year now since i left the biz...
i know the salesperson needs to take the high road, not saying they shouldn't. but that doesn't give the customer the right to treat salespeople like crap just because someone said "the customer is always right"
i guess i've grown cynical...
-thene
LOL, looks like you thought wrong.
I asked her about the Z... she laughed...thought it was funny.
Does this Elaine happen to have a brother in sales that goes by the nickname "Psycho"? Sounds like it must run in the family. You entertain any ideas of dunking Elaines head in the punch bowl... you know... just because it might be "funny"?
Ya, this seems to happen a lot with the things I say to my wife.
No, it doesn't give the customer free rein to do whatever they want. The salesman can always walk away from anyone as well. That's our perogative and the customers.
I've seen several salespeople launch folks out the front door because they were being rude. I've also seen salespeople use their silver tongues and get those customers back on the road to a sale. Takes all kinds.
-Moo
On question, when you do that what would you say would be your rate of sales? What is the percentage of those you call back one, two or three weeks later accepting their offer that buy?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D