Stories from the Sales Frontlines

fezo

70K - around 4 years.

roadburner

I think you are right on the Aveo. It is pretty much impossible to buy a truly bad new car anymore.

I got stuck with an Aveo loaner a couple of years ago, and I'd have to say that driving one is better than walking- barely. I'd buy a used Civic or Focus before I'd pay $10K-$12K for a new Aveo.
Bleh.

jimbres

That's what makes the folks who stand and scream about how awful their GM was from a recent year sound off key. The history of some foreign brands has gone down since 2003 and some/most US brands have improved.

I've stayed away from domestics not because I thought they'd be more likely to break down but because they simply didn't appeal to me. GM in particular didn't seem interested in selling to those of us who aren't truck fans. Until very recently, GM's sedan offerings were handicapped by uninspired styling & cheap, tacky interiors.

From about 1990, if not earlier, until the 2008 model year, when the current generation CTS was introduced, GM had little or nothing to offer us sedan & coupe buyers. The corporate attitude seemed to be: if you don't want a truck, maybe you should go somewhere else & not waste our time.

Well, I'm not a truck guy. Never was, never will be. I want a fast, good-looking sedan that's not afraid of curvy roads. I want RWD or AWD, & if you're really serious about getting my business, you'll make a stick shift available.

It's not enough to build a car that's reliable. If you want me to buy it, you also have to come up with something that I want to drive. GM is only starting to figure that out.

fezo

I'd buy a used Civic or Focus before I'd pay $10K-$12K for a new Aveo.

Oh, absolutely. My point was more that the Aveo will reliably get you from point A to point B even if you really dislike that journey....

roadburner

Well, I'm not a truck guy. Never was, never will be. I want a fast, good-looking sedan that's not afraid of curvy roads. I want RWD or AWD, & if you're really serious about getting my business, you'll make a stick shift available.

Exactly! And when I want AWD I want true AWD(see: Audi, BMW, Subaru), not FWD with a flimsy rear differential that's only along for the ride 99% of the time...

jayrider

Get yourself an awd dodge charger with the big v8. It's rwd biased like infiniti. You could burn some serious roads with either. Just keep firestone on your speed dial. :P

houdini1

Because of depreciation? I always thought they were about the same is build quality and reliability.

jimbres

And when I want AWD I want true AWD...

Good point!

And please (this is directed at GM specifically) spend a few shekels on the interior of your cars. Toss out the parts bin that you've been pulling from since the 2nd Reagan administration.

sterlingdog

Boom,
It's ironic that you posted the link to the 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee yesterday. I was just trying to find some information on it. Thanks a bunch. The 5 inch extension in length is suppose to give 3 inches more of leg room to the second seat. That was one of the original complaints in the 2010 model. Good work Chrysler! Also, the cheap plastic is gone and the interior looks much nicer and more expensive. Go Chrysler! Except for the front grill, the exterior design is updated and looks very European. I was very impressed. Chrysler is getting the message.

As you know, the JGC has been high on our list of possibilities to replace the Explorer. I showed your link to my wife. Like me, she was really impressed. It appears to have the looks and features of the more luxury SUV's. I'm very willing to wait three months until the 2011 hits the showroom floor. Thanks so much for remembering me. I was delighted to get the information.

Richard

boomchek

No problem, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I also wrote that review myself. I hope you didn't find too many grammatical or spelling errors

sterlingdog

I purchased a new CRV on New Year's Eve 2000. I had been looking at them for a couple of weeks. The dealer called me at 6 PM on December 31st because he was trying to achieve a year end quota for sales. He offered me the deal that I had requested a few days before. He took my Miata in the dead of winter at an excellent price and sold the CRV at $100 below invoice. It was a very good deal.

I drove the CRV up and down the East coast as a business car for three years and topped out at 100K miles. Never at any time did I have a problem with the CRV---air conditioning or otherwise. When at home, my wife drove it constantly. She did love that vehicle.

My sister owns two Pilots---one for the practice and one for pleasure. Last year, my brother-in-law traded his ten year old Lexus for a beautiful top of the line Honda Accord. He claims that it drives better than a Lexus for less money and the same comfort features. They are truly a Honda family.

Along with the Jeep Grand Cherokee, the Honda Pilot is also on our list of possibilities to replace the Explorer.

Richard

snakeweasel

Now, the first Hondas and Toyotas were crude and primitive but they were rock solid reliable

I don't know about that, IIRC the ones that were owned by people I knew tended to fall apart after a few years (back in the 60's and 70's).

sterlingdog

You wrote that review? I'm so proud of you. I was thinking when I read it, how concise, informative, and interesting the article turned out to be. You did an excellent job. I award you an A+ Card. Keep it as a "Get Out of Jail Free Card". If you ever get in "grammatical" trouble here, you can pull it out and use it on me. :P

Richard

roadburner

I love my 1999 Wrangler, but sometimes I'd like to have something with a bit more room. I keep seeing used Commanders-even Limiteds-with asking prices under $20,000. It's a bit big for my tastes but it sounds like you can get a nice one for not much money. Any thoughts? My wife would like to find a nice Mini Cooper Clubman to replace her X3-and the Commander could be a 4X4 that either of us could drive(she doesn't drive manuals...)

boomchek

Thanks for that report card! I find writing quite enjoyable except I don't do it often enough. I once wrote a satire of a 300 page policy manual from my old work, using same fonts, layouts, and even the cover as the original, but with the content being funny and poking fun at upper management. My coworkers thought it was hilarious enough that they bought copies from me of this 300 page satire for themselves.

But in regards to the GC, once we get more info on it, I'll keep you updated.

boomchek

The Commanders are great used SUV buys because they depreciated so much. Most of the mechanicals, including the engines, transmissions, and 4X4 systems were from the Grand Cherokee. I'd only get a Commander if you really need the space or the third row seats, otherwise I'd stick to a Grand Cherokee.

roadburner

I'd only get a Commander if you really need the space or the third row seats, otherwise I'd stick to a Grand Cherokee.

I like the GC as well; which year(or years) do you prefer? Any years to avoid?

sterlingdog

In looking at possibilities, we tried out the Commander. It was nice but had one serious flaw, at least for us. Rear visibility was terrible due to the block design of the vehicle. Attempting to look rear left, right, or even straight back was a problem. It frightened us off. The GC was much more pleasant to drive and enjoy. There are some good deals on the '09's and 2010's.

Richard

sterlingdog

Thanks. I'll look forward to hearing more about the new GC. BTW, continue to write. You're young and it will improve as you practice. Who knows? You may want to become a columnist for a respected automobile publication. I'm sure that they have a demand for good writers with automobile knowledge. (Take note Edmunds. You have a potential star in Canada.)

Richard

driver100

Along with the Jeep Grand Cherokee, the Honda Pilot is also on our list of possibilities to replace the Explorer. and the GLK!

driver100

have a demand for good writers with automobile knowledge. (Take note Edmunds. You have a potential star in Canada.)

I read boomers article too and it was well done and very professional...I thought it was a writer from Chrysler's advertising department.

Those Jeeps riding on 2 wheels was impressive, looks like they could drive over almost anything.

The new Cherokee is very impressive. Personally, if I was in the market for an SUV, my check list would be BMW X3, Mercedes GLK and 2011 Jeep Cherokee.

nyccarguy

So what is the year, make, & model of the highest mileage car you've ever taken on a trade in?

Hondas in the family:
My sister had a '95 Accord EX Coupe that was stolen. After straying for a few years, she got an '07 Accord EX-V6 Sedan.

I've got my '01 Prelude Type SH. Thanks all for the concern, but I was confident enough with the welding job that I didn't fee like it I'll need any kind of guarantee. My wife drives a 2010 Acura TSX.

My wife's cousin had an '05 Pilot EX-L that she just traded in for a loaded to the gills '10 Odyssey.

Will there be more Hondas to come? You betcha. Eventually I'm going to have to retire my Prelude. The Acura TL SH AWD w/ 6 speed stick is looking better and better.

sterlingdog

Didn't you think that the 2011 Jeep GC looked very much like the Mercedes GLK? It was the first thing that popped into my mind when I saw the pictures.

Richard

stickguy

I assume you read the preview that is now up on Edmunds too? they really liked it.

I also recall reading someplace that it was developed with the M class Mercedes, so that might explain the resemblance! either that, or not much that you can do to a box.

sterlingdog

Yes, I did read it today. It wasn't up earlier when I looked, or i missed it. I'll be interested to see their thoughts after the test drives later this month. If it was developed with the M class Mercedes, no wonder it reminded me of their SUV. Thanks.

Richard

driver100

Didn't you think that the 2011 Jeep GC looked very much like the Mercedes GLK? It

Definitely, it even uses parts designed by MB. But, that's not an excuse to get out of trying the GLK.

My guess is the GLK will have a different feel, and definitely a different interior. If you like the Jeep GC better, or think it is still a better value, after TEST DRIVING the GLK, then it will make you feel better that you have a car that's even better than an MB. It is a perfect chance to test drive because you are in the market and you could buy the GLK if you are persuaded that it is the better car for you.

My theory is that you want a nice car but cars should not cost any more than they have to -and this is a family characteristic. I understand that, my father bought a new car every 2 years and he could have bought the top of the line but he would always get the next model down - guess it is denying yourself so you don't feel guilty. I think he didn't want to test more luxurious cars because then he might not be satisfied with his Fairlane 500 instead of a Galaxie. I did the same for many years, those habits are hard to break. Personally, I think you are at a time and place in life when you should get exactly what you want.....just an unsolicited opinion. At least test it to see what it is like.

Good luck, if nothing else, it would make a great story for the group here at Edmunds...your impressions of a GLK.

jayrider

Richard, unless you are someone who really has to have the newest version, you might want to focus on the 2010 GC. The deals will be substantial and the vehicle has had virtually all the bugs addressed as it is the end of that version. The new one is definitely improved but will cost thousands more and will start the debugging process anew. Something to consider. Also, I think the ml 350 would be a somewhat better comparison than the downsized GLK.

sterlingdog

Well, let's talk about the MB-GLK vs. the 2011 Jeep GC. I've reviewed and looked at both, but driven neither. At this point, and based on our desires and needs, here's how I see the comparison:

1. It's not a matter of price because both fall in the $38K-$40K range with similar options.
2. The GC now has more rear leg room than the GLK.
3. The GC now has more cargo space than the GLK.
4. The design of the seats in the GC appeal more to me.
5. The instrument panel and the dash design in the GC appeal more to me.
6. Engine power in both is about the same.
7. My nearest MB dealer is an hour from here---surprising because in this resort area we have all of the other luxury car dealers.
8. Chrysler dealer is here---trusted and reliable.

I don't question for a moment that the MB is a fine automobile. For convenience of service and my needs (hauling small antique pieces), the GC seems a better fit. The Honda Pilot, the Chrysler Aspen, and the Ford Explorer also fit my criteria---and what my wife prefers. I shy away from the Chrysler Aspen because it is out of production now. The Ford Explorer is down the list of preferences simply because we want something different. At this point, I would say that it is between the GC and the Pilot. I tried to keep the Ford Flex on the list, but my wife made it quite clear that she didn't like it. At any rate, our purchase target date is the end of September. Our Explorer will make its last big trip to Chicago and Michigan in August. It's been a great vehicle with no problems other than normal maintenance. Regardless of make and model, I believe that there are times when you just "luck up" with a great car. For us, it has been the Explorer. The only other time was my 1989 Lincoln TC...truly my favorite automobile.

Richard

sterlingdog

You certainly make a valid point---saving money and having the bugs worked out in the 2010 model. There are only three draw backs to this mode of thinking. The rear leg room has been a constant complaint in the 2010. Also, the materials for the dash and instrument panel have been criticized as cheap. Both of those problems are solved in the 2011, along with the updated design. It seems a shame to purchase a new vehicle when the latest model is a complete re-do. After all, we do plan to drive this new purchase for many model years. Decisions, decisions. :confuse:

Richard

stickguy

From what you have said, you aren't in danger of losing your house or going on food stamps. So, why not spend a little extra and get what makes you happy? Your nephews and neices (and of course Fezo) will just have to make do with a smaller inheritence!

as to bugs, well, if you have a good dealer, then that is what the warranty is for.

I might have to stop at the dealer and look at a GLK again. I sit in one every year at the car show, and the interior is always a mojor disappointment. Cheap, ugly and uncomfortable. But other than that, I do like the way it looks!

and based on recent history, I sure am not buying a MB because I am afraid of another cars reliablility!

When is the new explorer coming out? The spy shots make it seem interesting, but I am guessing it won't be out by September.

Edmunds also just did a review on the pilot. Pretty underwhelming overall, as to performance, MPG, brakes. Does seem to have a nice interior though.

The MDX is a nice package. That I have actually driven a few times (my SIL has one). I could live with it!

boomchek

Those are good comparisons Richard. The GC chassis is actually based on the Mercedes ML's not the smaller GLK's chassis. Any resemblance to styling is purely coincidental.

I would suggest a test drive would be the best comparison. A friend's mother had a Lexus RX which she traded for a new GLK when they came out. She couldn't stand the GLK after 3 months due to the smaller size and stiff ride. She really got used to Lexus's (Lexi's, Lexuse's, Lexus' ??) cushy ride. So she promptly sold her GLK (luckily she got what she paid for it because there were still waiting lists for it), and got herself a new 2010 Lexus RX.

And if you are into hauling antiques, the base GC (without the passenger power seat), has a flat folding front passenger seat so you can probably fit a grandfather clock in there if you had to.

fezo

Your nephews and neices (and of course Fezo) will just have to make do with a smaller inheritence!

Oh, good. Jog his memory!

Of course richard is in good health and not much older than me so he may as well spend it all. The nieces and nephews just want all his furniture IIRC.

That new Grand Cherokee does look very nice. If Chrysler can make it to the point where the Fiat-Chryslers are actually in the showrooms they might make it yet.

driver100

. So she promptly sold her GLK (luckily she got what she paid for it because there were still waiting lists for it),

Boom, your advise is always good but that statement is like a Yogi Berra-ism.

It is similar to; Nobody goes to that restaurant to eat any more because it is so busy you can't get a seat!.

The GLK has so many faults but people are willing to pay full pop for a used one.

IMHO the new Jeep GC is a fabulous car...I am certain I would choose it over any other North American SUV, but I would still want to compare it to a European car, which I might prefer. I will say, I had a loaner M Class the 1st year they came out and I didn't like it so you never know.

driver100

let's talk about the MB-GLK vs. the 2011 Jeep GC.

All good reasons.....I think! I think you should drive to the MB dealer and try the GLK. Then you can tell all your friends and the crew at Edmunds about your experience driving a Mecredes. A Benzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

All your reasons are good ones for choosing the Jeep, but, sometimes you have to step outside your comfort zone just for the experience. Especially, when you have very little to lose...probably a few hours of time but what an exciting adventure.

The Pilot is dependable, competent, nice square design, but from all the reviews I have read, not too exciting.

This is the last time I will mention an GLK,Ii don't want to mess up myspecial dinner that I am looking forward to.

driver100

We drove for an hour North on the highway. The Optima/Magentis drives very nicely at 70 mph. It has a nice easy to use cruise control. Buttons are easy to use. That is part of the electronics that has become so cheap they might as well put it into all the cars...it brings the price of that option down when you mass produce it right into the car. same with PWs and remote key.

My last minimal car was my 92 Cavalier. Though I liked that car, this is really a much better car in so many ways. The cost is probably even less in todays dollars.

I like this car more than the Camry and Civic rentals I have had. I do like an Accord more, though this is probably a lot less expensive.

I saw a 2011 Sonata today and though it was dull gray it looked smart. If they sold it as a baby Benz they could get $10k more for it!

houdini1

Baby Benz? It's probably about the size of the E Class.

boomchek

The GLK has so many faults but people are willing to pay full pop for a used one.

Not sure what you mean by that Yogi Berra stuff, but I'm just saying what happened. It only had about 2000kms on the clock, there was no shortage of inquiries (I posted the ad for her) and it was sold soon after. So someone who might have to wait 3 months for one and possibly pay over sticker, bought this used one with only 2000kms for less than a new one would cost (since people had to wait or pay over sticker).

sterlingdog

I can't seem to find a month for the debut of the new Explorer---just Fall of 2010. The few pictures do indicate a good looking design. Can't wait to find out what the "green thing" on top of the dash does. The interior---seats, steering wheel, etc. has a real space ship look. The left rear door is normal, but the right rear door appears to be a sliding door,as in a van. The headlights must open up from behind the grill. The taillights must do the same type of thing. This is going to be interesting to see...perhaps a little too interesting in my opinion.

Richard

sterlingdog

Are you kidding? My one nephew and my one niece want more than furniture. They want it ALL. There is an advantage here. When I want them to do something, I just remind them that charities still exist. :P

Richard

sterlingdog

I don't mind if you keep mentioning the GLK. I promise to try out one soon. I'm curious about comparing it to the GC.

Richard

sterlingdog

"Boom, your ADVISE is always good..."

For a moment, I thought that I was reading a post from isellhondas. :P

Richard

tjc78

So someone who might have to wait 3 months for one and possibly pay over sticker, bought this used one with only 2000kms for less than a new one would cost (since people had to wait or pay over sticker).


I had no idea that they were that popular. I just saw one today in silver... not my cup of tea, though.

isellhondas

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe YOU are wrong along with Mr. Webster?

boomchek

Depends on the market. They were popular when they came out, maybe things have settled down now. There's lot of money flowing around in Vancouver regardless of the economy.

driver100

I don't mind if you keep mentioning the GLK. I promise to try out one soon. I'm curious about comparing it to the GC.

I am glad you feel that way. I have no idea whether the GLK will suit you, it just seems like a great opportunity to give it a try.

You might decide to keep your Explorer and one day you will see a GLK go by, and you will say, "There goes one of those GLKs I tried back in 2010, I am so glad I decided to keep my Explorer, or you might say I am so glad I decided to buy this 2011 Jeep".

driver100

Not sure what you mean by that Yogi Berra stuff

Yogi Berra was a great baseball player who made some famous quotes only he could make...such as;
* "When you get to a fork in the road, take it"

* "It gets late early out there"
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* "I really didn't say everything I said"
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*"Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical."
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* "You can observe a lot by watching."
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* "In baseball, you don't know nothing."
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* "A nickel ain't worth a dime anymore."
* "Why buy good luggage? You only see it when you travel."
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* Hey Yogi, what time is it?
"You mean now?"

Now do you see what I mean?

fezo

When I want them to do something, I just remind them that charities still exist.

Yes, like the Send Fezo's Kids to College fund. Very well regarded charity. I'll provide details as soon as I make them up.

sterlingdog

Not lately. :P

Richard

driver100

I had no idea that they were that popular

GLKs are selling well and Mercedes is near the top in quality and reliability now.

GLKs have a beautiful classic look that will look great forever, and though I haven't driven one every Mercedes I have driven (6 in total) have a unique feeling of luxury, solid feel (especially when you close a door) and incredible handling....or "feel of the road".

Sales Feb10 Feb 09 CHG to YTD10 YTD09 CHG

GLK-CLASS 2,126 1,918 10.8% 3,929 3,218 22.1%

TOTAL 14,870 14,199 4.7% 29,592 24,632 20.1%



MBUSA YTD YTD
Combined Total Feb '10 Feb '09 Monthly % 2010 2009 Yearly %
---------------- ------- ------- --------- ---- ---- --------

GRAND TOTAL 15,385 14,199 8.4% 30,543 24,632 24.0%
YTD is to end of March

GLK Sales

sterlingdog

"...as soon as I make them up."

At least you are honest. That puts you ahead of some charities.

Richard