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Comments
If you've ever read CR's annual auto issue, published in April, you've noticed that CR presents its reliability findings under the heading "Used Car Reliability". That should tell you that CR isn't trying to predict the future - they're only reporting on past performance.
In fact, CR makes it clear at the beginning of this section that its findings are intended to guide used car buyers. That doesn't stop a great many readers from using the reliability charts to screen prospective new car purchases - I've been guilty of this myself - but the charts are really aimed at used car buyers.
In other words, CR doesn't claim to be in the forecasting business.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Because you would have argued with them about how to do it! :P
Richard
Richard
Richard
He talked about personnel problems sometimes. He talked one time about 'firing' someone. I questioned this and he admitted that most times someone wasn't really fired, but just transferred to a remote and/or unwelcome location.
His story about people working at an installation with dis-content among people so bad, one shift had to be out of a building and inside their cars before the next shift was allowed to leave their cars.
I would never have believed this if my own brother hadn't told me. And he was 'called in' to try to manage this mess.
now, every used car is different, and the mark ups seem to be at the least "ambitious".
I recently saw a used 2002 BMW at a local ford dealer. Asking over at RWTIV, galves (and Edmunds, when I later ran it) said trade in ~7,000-7,500, and dealer retail ~10,000-10,500. And the 3K spread seems to be about normal delta, wholesale to on the lot.
But, this dealer has it listed (on-line) at about $13,995. Now, I have no idea what their opening salvo would be if I was standing on the lot tapping my checkbook. But, that is at least a 100% markup. Not too shabby if you can do it!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Because you would have argued with them about how to do it!
LOL funny.
You would have said, "that teacher is just too young".
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I feel the same way regarding their attitudes about cars.
There was a lot of talk about the comparisons between the 1980s Audi unintended acceleration recalls (which nearly bankrupt Audi) and Toyota's recent recall woes. CR pretty much torched Audi's reputation at the time and they threw gasoline on the Audi raging inferno. Yet, for Toyota, they begrudgingly issued a simple "not recommended". They had eschewed the virtues of Toyota for so long, showing their own bias, that it was difficult for them not to look like they had egg on their faces.
I understand people believe they are the "bible" when it comes to car reliabiity, and how to deal on a car. To me, I have a hard time believing their methods and testing is correct and unbiased as a result, though.
It doesn't help that when someone catches a wrong from them, they are arrogant about it and never seems to admit the wrong (which, to my knowledge, no person, company or trade rag can admit.....never being wrong).
Replies to this message:
I recall they had to do a retraction for their Avalon accolades on the redesign a few years back. They of course gave it their highest approbation. I believe the same thing happened with their Camry redesign.
Before that there was a foreign car that had undergone a fairly large change, but they gave it their wonderful approval. A US brand car had undergone a lot less change, and CR, naturally, gave it nothing, because it had to be proven for them to accept any car which had undergone changes.
No, I don't recall the exact cars involved. Perhaps the readers here will recall which pair they did that to.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Richard
Don't forget there are incentives for dealers who meet quotas and sell larger numbers. So there may be addition cost reduction in the dealer cost by selling more cars.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I don't recall any problems with the Avalon and CR's recomendation. You are correct about the Camry though. The V6 was pulled from recomendation because of the first couple of hundred 6 speed transmissions had an internal problem causing them to be replaced within the first thousand miles (snap rings IIRC).
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
I agree, they are absolutely clueless when it comes to home theater and audio. They really are the Bottom Feeder's Gazette...
I feel the same way regarding their attitudes about cars.
Yup. And they wear their nerdy attitude like a badge of honor; I remember when CR tested a Charger 2.2 back in the early '80s. They noted that the rumbling exhaust made some of their drivers "nervous".
True geeks...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
They are like the National Enquirer at times it seems.
Yes, that was the case where they decided to no longer post predicted reliability for new models. Prior to that they would just assume that folks who made reliable cars for ten years would continue to do so.
I didn't have the heart to even look at the scotch.
I think they test those products for the average person. Anyone who is even remotely into it as a hobby won't look at their reviews.
remember when CR tested a Charger 2.2 back in the early '80s
My mother had an 85 Dodge Charger with the 2.2. What a bad, bad car! It needed a head gasket practically the minute it drove off the lot, the paint peeled in the first few years and the A/C was broken more than it worked. I also remember it was a bear to start in any temp lower than 50 degrees.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
It's not just the fact that their reviews are dumbed-down/oversimplified- they often are just flat-out wrong.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Don't read too much into that! I didn't say I didn't drink.....
Richard
Richard
That's debatable on whether to go after holdback or not. The old" legitimate" dealer expenses and overhead versus pure profit argument. There is also advertising fees, which aren't listed on Edmunds, to consider. So invoice is bumped up another $400-$600 to account for advertising.
I don't recall seeing an advertising fee when I bought my Mazda MPV 6 years ago, and didn't include any money for advertising in my offer. Maybe manufacturers made the smart business decision and included that fee in the purchase price back in the "olden days" of when I bought my car.
Also, I don't know how Kia advertises in other regions of the country. But, they are almost non-stop here on the radio and television. They must have something along the lines of a $800 fee added onto the invoice of their cars. :sick:
Go to tab at top of this page. Choose New Cars. Then on 2nd row of tabs pick Incentives and Rebates.
Insert your zip code. Then do not select brand, but just scroll down the page. In the right column you'll see Manufacturer to Dealer and it's called "Marketing Support."
When you click on that you'll see something akin to this list. The Crosstour has $1200 to dealers to use to market by lowering price or if they can sell without lowering the price by all of $1200 they just keep the rest of the spiff.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2010/honda/accordcrosstour/101250188/incentives.html?- - vdp=off&setzip=45322&state=OH
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Go to New Cars|Price w/ options
Pick brand of car. E.g., Jeep Commander.
Pic 4 dr SUV.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2010/jeep/commander/101213630/options.html
The MSRP price and Invoice price along with price and coordination of options and packages are shown. So I price out exactly the car I want and that should be fairly close to the correct dealer invoice, before incentives, etc., as discussed earlier.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
"
Yes, as was referenced by Driver. I'm sure, despite having lost his dealerships after many years of fraud and deceit that Mr. Bill Heard is enjoying the fruits of his labor on some island paradise where he is drinking aged scotch with Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds. There is an arts district theater in Columbus, OH that bears his name and he has the (dubious) honor of being named #1 GM US car dealership as recently as 2005 despite having reams of complaints directed at his business for decades.
I'm guessing those irresponsible and poor teachers (who deserved to be fired) are now working at Walmart or Dollar General or McDonalds while Mr. Heard will don his tux, make a speech and toss a philanthropic crumb or two to the ladies auxiliary or other deserving charity before jetting to Rio on his private jet.
Gogiboy
To me, it's just plain rude.
For some people, it's like they are just scared to death that they might pay a penny more than they have to.
Anyone know how copper wire was invented?
One day two "mooches" were fighting over a penny!
The teacher in todays newspaper article isn't working at McDonald's, he's back on the job!
"Parents pulled their children out of class and protested outside a school Monday, the day a teacher convicted of inappropriately touching 4 female students was scheduled to return to work." This teacher, "served 16 days in jail after pleading guilty to the charges." "The district had previously suspended (teacher) without pay for 12 days for the incidents. When the district tried to fire him for the same offenses, the teacher appealed, and the hearing officer ruled the district had already punished him."
Sounds like the school district screwed up, but come on... putting someone like this back in the classroom is putting children at risk. He'll probably end up in a $70k a year office job filing paperwork a couple times a day. :sick:
There is not any site to determine the dealer cost of a used car.
Me? I'm from New Jersey. What are kick backs? :P
I will spot you a bottle of Bermuda 151 rum (light or dark, your choice). At least 25 years old, since that is how long I have had it.
as a side benefit, you could run the car on it if you got stuck. I am sure it would clean out the fuel injectors nicely.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
But the fired teachers were accosting chidren which should get the harshest penalty possible (unless they are priests, then it just gets covered up or they get transferred), but Mr Heard's only committed a white collar crime, so is treated much more leniently.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I can think of a couple of times where we actually went into holdback but there was always a good reason for doing this.
Sometimes we got burned on used cars but not often. It's possible to just pay too much trying to make a sale happen. We hope the guys in the shop won't find too many things wrong with it.
I remember we once took in a nice looking Audi. It ran well when it was warmed up but when we started it in the morning, it had a knock in the engine. took it to Audi who siad it looked like it had never had an oil change.
We sold it to a wholesaler and lost several thousand dollrs as I recall. This can happen to the best of stores sometimes.
If you decide to become a rum runner, do it by land or air, not sea.
Take look at one of those maps they have documenting all the shipwrecks, if you don't believe me. Just wishing you a long and unnoticed career.
I saw those wreck maps! I'll skip rum running by boat!
That teacher is in a district not too far from me. They aren't sure what they will do. He called in sick the first day of school. Parents won't let their kids in his class and the district is setting up some online courses for them. He may very well have no students in his classroom when he finally shows up. They aren't sure WHAT they will do then.
2011 Mustang plain jane has $500 for members of the American Quarter Horse Assn. I haven't looked lately, but we were members of that and the American Saddlebred Assn for many years.
Also $1000 for average joe just for asking before 4 Oct. Nice find there imid.
Now if they have a NRA member rebate I'll take one of anything with that rebate. Make it camo, please. j/k I don't do camo.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Personally, I feel they rate some things higher than they should be and others lower and they are not a part of any new or used car buying process for me.
A local dealer at least used to have all available Ford incentives on their website.
My favorite was a 14k UAW member incentive on an MKZ. Hint, it's made in Mexico.
Stick, Fezo, you guys are both close to my ex's town of Glendora, NJ you're making me nervous.
NJTP Exit 3 Black Horse Pike. When you swing by Central Ave, say hi for me.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Well, my timing was right for a change. Last Thursday I was in Ocracoke. Starting 5 AM tomorrow they are evacuating it ahead of Earl.
Of course by Friday they could be evacuating here....
But to refuse to look at information that may be relevant - that's just downright irrational.
Not someplace you actually go to. Just a place you drive thru, without knowing you were actually there!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Richard