Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited October 2010
    ALL car dealers will try to pay as little as possible for your trade in just like you will try to buy the new car for as little as possible.

    I had a lot of customers grind the last possible nickle out of a deal and then demand we pay top dollar for their trade in. Quite often, it was a trade we really didn't even want.

    No store will pay more for a trade than they can buy the same car for at the auction.

    As far as the used+no bargains, why does everything have to be a "bargain"?

    Used cars sell for what market forces dictate. If the "market" for a used Honda is 12,000 then that is what it will sell for, more or less.

    Most used cas that are "bargains" are priced because that's all they are worth.

    Better yet, if you feel you aren't being offered enough, just sell your trade on your own.
  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    Did you really read what I wrote? I had a buy bid from Toyota, signed by the GM.
    Honda wanted to give me $1300 less than the buy bid for a 2010 Avalon Limited on a 2011 Ridgeline. I don't quibble over a couple of hundred any more than you do, but this is outright fraud on their part. Trying to scam me for $1300 when I have paperwork in front of me and the Toyota store across the street. I think if I brought in Gold bullion they'd want to give me half price because it didn't say Honda Gold.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    No, maybe I didn't read it.

    What did I miss? Why didn't that Honda store simply take in your Toyota and sell it to the Toyota store for the amount of the buy bid?

    I don't understand especially when it's a slow moving Ridgeline you were interested in. ????
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,601
    I wormed my way out of it. I follow your method---just BS or double talk it to death

    You have learned well grasshopper. :D

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,601
    Timex makes some expensive (expensive for Timex) watches....

    I am shocked....$650 Timex's! They are nice, but spend that kind of money and people still think you can't afford a descent watch.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,601
    edited October 2010
    but this is outright fraud on their part. Trying to scam me for $1300 when I have paperwork in front of me and the Toyota store across the street

    I think this is a real case of comparing apples and oranges. Just because the Toyota dealer offered $1300 more for your trade in on an Avalon (hyped up Toyota, maybe some would say over priced Camry and I read that in a review which said if you get the top of the line Camry you are getting a car that is every bit as good as an Avalon) doesn't mean it is worth it to the Honda dealer.

    For one thing, Toyota's sales are way down, and they are trying to make every sale they can. Who knows how much playing room there is on the 2 vehicles? Maybe the Toyota dealer has a buyer lined up for your trade in. Also, I imagine Toyota's are not in as much demand these days, and especially that could be true at a Honda dealers lot. If I was looking for a used Avalon, I would go to a Toyota dealer.

    If life was that simple, why not get the best trade in price on your vehicle, and then go around and negotiate using that?
    I understand your frustration with the Honda dealers, but it isn't really fair.

    When we traded in my wifes 2003 Mercedes for her 08 BMW the BMW dealer gave us $400 more than the Mecedes or Audi dealers. I think they knew who to sell it to.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    edited October 2010
    The Toyota store where I purchased the Avalon offered $27,500 buy bid. The Toyota store across from the Honda store offered $27,000 buy bid. The Honda store wanted me to take it to them and cash it in instead of doing a trade-in right there. Honda trade-in was $1300 less or $1800 less depending on the two buy bids.
    On top of that when he wrote up the trade difference, he had a bottom line that seemed good until you went up a line and it said "with $3000 down" What kind of screamer ad hoodoo bull crap is that?
    You may have had a squared away store, but believe me, Duncan Honda can kiss my Rolex watch (which I don't wear because I'm actually retired and don't need it).

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    Nice sales story there GP, but you never said if you had closed the deal !!


    haha Yes I closed the deal :shades:
  • gogiboygogiboy Member Posts: 732
    Snake--

    I'm actually seeing both variants. The true fixed gear variety based on track bike can only be stopped (or slowed) by the riders leg action. They do cause a lot of accidents since they really weren't meant to be used in traffic or near pedestrians--plus the riders have a tendency to blow through stop signs since stopping takes real effort. But when has that ever mattered to a self-absorbed 20 year old? As you know, there is no coasting with a fixed gear. Most of the major manufacturers are selling single speeds with hand brakes--probably in part because of liability.

    Have you seen that some of the new "cruiser" or "street" bikes are now coming with a belt drive instead of chain? No lubrication necessary.

    Gogiboy
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    It looks like you have a Honda store and a Toyota store that have bad blood between them which isn't uncommon.

    The Honda store probably knww the Toyota store wouldn't take the Avalon once the deal was done and they didn't want to take a chance on getting stuck with it.

    Avalons are great cars but they are NOT good sellers either new or used.

    My guess is that you are in a miserable market place where it's dog eat dog. The market I worked in hadn't gotten to that point but the Portland influence was creeping in slowly.

    In tough markets like CA and OR, the stores basically hate one another and won't do dealer trades or anything else that just might benefit another store.

    A lot of this comes from just wanting to survive and a miserable, basically ruined marketplace.
  • 604doc604doc Member Posts: 182
    If I decide to pull the trigger on a Ridgeline, how about coming out of retirement to do the deal with me? Come on, you know you want to! :D
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Hey, I'll do it! Just let me know what you're lookling for.
  • gogiboygogiboy Member Posts: 732
    "First watch my Dad gave me was an automatic Hamilton, lo those many years ago for my Confirmation. It has been lost to time (pun intended). Wish I still had it, though."

    GG--

    I inherited a 50s Hamilton self winder from my dad in about 1970. It had radium in the hands and at the 10 minute marks. I think I cracked the crystal playing ball. At one point I was wearing it in his lab so I stuck it in front of the Geiger Counter. It definitely produced a reading! After that I put it away in a drawer with my underwear. Maybe that's why I don't have any kids.

    Gogiboy
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,591
    A lot of this comes from just wanting to survive and a miserable, basically ruined marketplace

    What can be done to fix this on the dealer side and the consumer side?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • canadiantoyotacanadiantoyota Member Posts: 148
    Hey Snake, don't leave the watches with dead batteries for too long. When a battery runs down and you leave it, you run the risk of the battery "leaking" and ruining the movement in the watch. I am a graduate jeweller and I have seen watches where the battery has leaked into the movement. The watch is generally a nice bracelet then.

    With regards to Rolex knock offs, the one tried and true method to tell a fake is the movement of the second hand. In the knock offs and in most other quartz watches, the second hand moves each second..i.e. it ticks. The Rolex second hand moves in one continuous smooth movement.

    Richard, have the rings appraised and listed under "fine art/collectibles" on your insurance policy. This will insure them for all perils (loss, theft, damage). It will cost a little more, but those fine rings were crafted to be worn. They have little to no value if they are sitting in a safe deposit box.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    picky, picky, picky

    In navigation, 15° could mean the difference between reaching Maui or Guam. But, hey, they're both islands so who would even notice? ;)

    I wormed my way out of it.

    I don't recall that expression being synonymous with "digging yourself in deeper." :shades:

    But all would be forgiven for a slice of one of those Fritchie pies. :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    And you thought I was a grinder lol. You've got the picture now.

    Shelor owns 5 or 6 really big stores all in one area. Toyota, Ford, GM, Chrysler
    Duncan owns 11 not as big stores scattered all over. Suzuki, Honda, Kia, etc.
    Shelor is trying to take over the entire area car market including Duncan while the customers have to deal with the feud.

    Salesguy was really nice, however the SM was a real turd. Not a word, just crappy figures on paper and an occasional grunt. You'd probably rise to GM at that store.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Probably quite a few... but look at the money I am saving on gas !!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Nice to hear from you greenpea. You have some catching up to do. You are replying to an email from July 25th.

    You got a problem with my birthday? :(

    FWIW, 10 after 10 is a little less than the 120 degrees you were probably thinking of. :P

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    Believe me, if I'm going to Maui or Guam, I won't be the one using the compass. :D They won't allow me to pilot the plane or steer the ship---if they know what is good for them.

    You do realize that "digging deeper" will gradually make the initial mistake disappear. People tend to get confused after a while, and wonder what it was all about originally. I should know; I've had lots of practice. :P It worked for Nixon; he got a pardon. It worked for Clinton; he redefined the meaning of sex. It worked for BP; they just put a cap on the whole thing. ;)

    I'll be delighted to ship you one of those pies---for a decrease in dues, of course.

    Richard
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Anybody remember the Scotty pocket watches?

    How about the Black and White Scotty dogs? I liked those better. ;)

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    " What can be done to fix this on the dealer side and the consumer side"

    Good question and I don't know if there is an answer.

    Because of the internet and other shopping services, the consumer is empowered as never before. Thjey know what the dealers pay for the cars and they think they ought to be able to buy them for that amount or even less. The consumers decide what a "fair" profit is. They go after incentives, holdbacks and everything else.

    They pit dealer against dealer, scared to death they just might pay a dollar more than someone else did.

    Bottom line, a store has to make a profit to pay their trememdous overhead and end up in the black. Unless they can attract and retain quality professional salespeople and managers they will be in trouble.

    This is why there are screamer ads. This is why customers get lowballed over the phone.

    A shopper needs to find a store with a great reputation. Preferable a family owned store with long term employees and management. A shopper should ask friends and neighbors for a referral. Some do this and they don't end up paying any more in the end. Others chase dollars in a frantic zeal not to overpay.

    It is a unique and tough business.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    How's my favorite student? I'm mighty proud of you. They recognize your talents and ability in both service and sales. Not everyone can do both. Congratulations.

    When you get a chance, read my latest sales story in post 58951. After three cars in three years, I think that I am set now for quite a while.

    Don't forget to keep practicing your writing. You're the teacher's STAR student. ;)

    Richard
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    I think I have something like 30 watches. I know...nuts!

    OK, if you say so.

    So, ‘isell’…what time is it? We want the answer in degrees (we’ll take it from there). :D

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,724
    >10 after 10 is a little less than the 120 degrees

    That's115°.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,890
    Have you ever heard of the saying, 'The man with more than one watch never knows what time it is'? smiley
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    You got a problem with my birthday?

    Swell. Now I have to break it to my daughter that she shares your birthday.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    The service I have done has been basically fluid and belt changes as well as basic tune ups. Haven't done them religiously but I do them at somewhat regular intervals. My indy guy doesn't seem to have any issues doing them.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    My recent car purchase left the following impression. The sales side of the equation is not the problem. You find the car you want and research a fair price. Using any of the search engines will give you a decent deal. Trade ins are trade-ins. You won't get more than an auction price -- way too many variables to be sure but a range of 2-3k under retail would be reasonable if it is a car the dealer wants.
    The sales teams are generally helpful folks unless they are new and talking from a script. At least when you buy a vehicle you get something for your money -- a car. The real sleaze is in F&I where they sell overpriced options that are worthless. No one can work in that position and have any sense of self respect. You essentially take advantage of people and the more you cheat them the more you make. At least the sales staff is selling a useful product -- transportation.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    for a decrease in dues, of course.

    It's a deal! You are hereby granted a 75% discount on your annual dues. :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Elgin made a pretty good watch. If it was taken care of it should still work or be made workable rather inexpensively.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Most of the major manufacturers are selling single speeds with hand brakes--probably in part because of liability.

    Well most states have a law that states that any bike must have a brake or it cannot be ridden on the street.

    Have you seen that some of the new "cruiser" or "street" bikes are now coming with a belt drive instead of chain?

    They have had belt drives for some time. I wouldn't recommend them though, the teeth wear out faster than a chain will stretch offers limited gear availability and if it breaks you're SOL.

    The new thing is a shaft drive for bikes. These have advantages and disadvantages too.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    As I said I am a pocket watch man and I rarely wear wrist watches. I don't get new batteries for them because if I am lucky I will wear them once before the new battery dies.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    The saying is "A man with one watch always knows what time it is. A man with two is never quite sure."

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,890
    I heard it from a different philosopher. ;)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    The real sleaze is in F&I where they sell overpriced options that are worthless.

    Couldn't agree more. When I bought my CR-V 5 years ago, the F&I guy tried to pitch an extended warranty. I refused, explaining that if you were doing a good job of managing your finances - if you had little debt & enough money in the bank - you could handle any repairs that you might encounter after the factory warranty expired.

    The F&I guy turned red & replied, "Well, that's the first time anyone said that to me". It was obvious that he earned a fat commission on every EW sale. I thought he was going to hit me or cry.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    I am shocked....$650 Timex's! They are nice, but spend that kind of money and people still think you can't afford a descent watch.

    Now do you understand why some people will s-t-r-e-t-c-h themselves to buy an upscale car and not know the "feel of the road BMW" from an elephant with a saddle? :confuse:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    That's115°.

    I knew that but I wanted 'driver' to answer. I wonder if 'driver' was still working on that assignment when his calculator died from all of the key strokes. :surprise:

    BTW, if 'tidester' really wanted to challenge his students he would have given them that 10 minutes after 10 question. I think he was actually trying to give them a "gimme" (with that 12:30 question) but they wouldn't take it. :(

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Swell. Now I have to break it to my daughter that she shares your birthday.

    I hope you realize that you get a 'quantity discount' when you buy 2 cards for the same day. :)

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    No store will pay more for a trade than they can buy the same car for at the auction.

    I would think that if you took in a trade that you had a chance to drive (from what I’ve heard auctions don’t allow the car to be driven before they sell it) and had the car in front of you for as long as you wanted to examine it, that car should be worth a little bit more than an auction car. Kinda like that “bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush” thing.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    75%?! My pie is worth more than my sales story. I only got 15% for it. I suppose the old adage is true---the way to a man's heart is through his stomach. Let's see. 75+15 =90. I'll soon be getting my dues free. :D

    Richard
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    "No store will pay more for a trade than they can buy the same car for at auction."

    I have to wonder about that statement. Having given me $6K for the '03 Explorer, I can't imagine that it would sell for that at auction.

    Richard
  • jwilliams2jwilliams2 Member Posts: 910
    "No store will pay more for a trade than they can buy the same car for at auction."
    It is generally true. If you get more it usually means they had some room on the new car side. Dealers don't like to put more into a car than they know they can get at auction, because that's where it's going if it doesn't retail in 45-60 days.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    edited October 2010
    75%?! My pie is worth more than my sales story. I only got 15% for it. I suppose the old adage is true---the way to a man's heart is through his stomach. Let's see. 75+15 =90. I'll soon be getting my dues free.

    Nope, that's not the way it works.

    You got 15% off your dues for the first story. Instead of paying $100 (for example), you now pay $85.

    Next, you got 75% off your dues for the pie story / recipe. So, 75% off of the adjusted dues amount ($85) comes to .... $21.25.

    You'll never get to $0, my friend.

    :D :mad: :cry: :P

    unless, of course, your dues were $0 to begin with ....
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,601
    edited October 2010
    "No store will pay more for a trade than they can buy the same car for at auction."
    I have to wonder about that statement. Having given me $6K for the '03 Explorer, I can't imagine that it would sell for that at auction.


    I am sure I got more than the auction price on most of my trade ins. The dealer knows my cars are in excellent shape, they won't have to put much money into them, and they can still sell them and make a profit.

    At an auction you are basically buying blind, taking a real chance. Cars have to be sold at rock bottom prices because the odds are against you, as to how good the car is going to be.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    You'll never get to $0, my friend.

    He sure can. Pretty soon 'tidester' is going to throw in the towel because the damn Emotorcons still aren't working. (mad here)

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    A good appraiser doesn't even need to drive some cars.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,601
    BTW, if 'tidester' really wanted to challenge his students he would have given them that 10 minutes after 10 question. I think he was actually trying to give them a "gimme" (with that 12:30 question) but they wouldn't take it.

    How were we supposed to know we were marking off minutes! We thought 12:30 meant one hand on 12 and the other on the 6. Only an engineer would think about little details like the hour hand won't be on the 12! :P (tongue out)

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,601
    Now do you understand why some people will s-t-r-e-t-c-h themselves to buy an upscale car and not know the "feel of the road BMW" from an elephant with a saddle?

    I guess, but, I suppose someone who buys a $650 Timex doesn't care about status symbols at all. The question that comes to mind is....who are you trying to impress?

    It would be like buying a gold plated Smart Car.

    Yes, I will acknowledge that some people buy a BMW for the wrong reasons, to make an impression on others, but some of us buy it for the "joy of driving".

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,703
    they do save some money taking in the trade in. There is an auction fee, transportation costs, and some level of reconditioning. With a pristine trade from an OCD type owner where they can see it is front row ready, they can afford to pony up a little over wholesale. with a side benefit of making the buyer very happy!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

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