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Comments
That’s more than good...that’s psychic.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Hey, it works for the politicians, at least so far. It'll be interesting to see where we are in four weeks.
Besides which there's the Richard Rule -- "When Richard does (says) it, it's okay."
People in "prices paid" forums post their out the door prices or maybe even just the price paid for whatever they just bought or if not to the prices paid forum, to friends or business associates. There are just too many variables in the equation of buying a car to walk into a dealer with a straight face and say: "Mr. & Mrs. Harrison paid $XX,XXX for their SUV & I want their deal" or "Some guy on edmunds told me he paid $XX,XXX for his car, do that deal and I'll buy right now."
On the buyer's side, there is the actual selling price of the vehicle.
Trade or no trade?
If there was a trade, how much?
What was the year, make, model, miles, condition, color, options?
Was there any negative equity rolled into the payment?
Besides Honda/Acura's way of building cars with no options (only model designations/ with or without automatic), how can people assume the car is even remotely the same? BMW makes a stripper 328i that stickers for $34K & change or you can option the same car up with an MSRP of $50K.
Did they buy or lease? Cash or finance? If they leased, what are the mileage limits and terms? How much (if anything) did they "put down?" What was the lease rate? What was their credit score?
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Richard
Richard
I like the way that you think. :P (Joke goes here.)
I do hope that we are some where else in four weeks!
Richard
Richard
If I really wanted to challenge my students I would have asked them "Besides 12:00, at what time(s) are the hour and minute hands perfectly aligned?"
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Why on Earth would you think that? I thought everyone knows how to tell time. :P
Only an engineer would think about little details like ...
Nope, I'm not an engineer. Actually, I created that problem for a math course that emphasizes the development of effective thinking skills. Just watch out. After students complete my course they will give the front lines folks a serious challenge in negotiations.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I did no such thing. I gave the time and asked for the angle between the hands. If I told you where the hands were located and then asked for the angle we might really be talking about a fourth grade question. :shades:
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I think you thought of a pie because food is a higher priority than figuring out a math problem.
But thank you for agreeing....we are both getting good at digging ourselves out of problems.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I wouldn’t say you got out of anything. Rather, you just dig yourself in deeper. What I think you would be good at is fox-hole work. No angle to consider there...just down and FAST !! (I don’t know what face to put here, maybe confused ?)
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Even if it is just a car in average condition, it will cost less to aquire at dealership than one being bought at auction, due to above mentioned costs and fees. How much on average? I'd say about $400. That's why you should always expect more money from a dealership at trade in, and not accept the "this is what we pay for them at auction" excuse. Well, go 350 miles to that out of state auction and see how much you end up paying for the exact same car. Plus, as someone else noted, you get no test drive. You get no history of the vehicle from the owner, no maintenance records. That's why dealerships heavily advertise the "local one owner trade in" angle.
At least we feel we justified it to ourselves, and that is all that really counts. If a tree falls in the forest and all that..........
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That's me. I worked in a fox hole for 40 years---dodged all of the bullets, but never slayed the enemy. (Grin goes here.)
Richard
A great book on creative thinking is called "A Whack on the Side of the Head". The story about how Charles Ketterling discovered that adding lead to gasoline would stop engine knock is a classic story of great discoveries.
The Case of Kettering's Experiments with Red
He thought that by getting the gasoline to fire more quickly in an automobile engine, the knock would be reduced. However, he did not readily identify a way to get it to fire more quickly. He began to look for examples of things that start quickly. Kettering observed that a plant called trailing arbutus starts quickly in the sense that it blooms earlier in the year than most plants. The arbutus also has distinctive red leaves, and Kettering surmised that it must be their redness that allowed the arbutus to bloom early. So, he decided to make gasoline red to see if it would then fire earlier and create less knock. He searched his lab for red dye, but could find none. He chose instead to add iodine to the gasoline. Sure enough, the iodine additive did cause the gasoline to fire more quickly and the knock was reduced. Kettering later attempted to replicate the experiment with red dye to confirm that it was redness that reduced the knock, but the red dye was not effective. It was certain chemical properties of the iodine that reduced the knock rather than it's color. And so, by accident Ketterling realized lead would stop engine knock!
That is a great example of creative thinking. Going in one direction, but being open to going in a new direction.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
isell....the SM at my Acura store can put a number on a car without test driving it. Now, maybe he can do that on my trades, as he knows the condition I keep them in, and that if it was ever wrecked, I would honestly disclose that. Someone else less scrupulous? Hmmmmm....I know if I can pertty easily spot a wreck/repaint, it's a fair bet that a SM at a dealership can do an even better job. Starting a car, and just running it through the gears will tell you a lot, too. So will the wear pattern on the tires. I think you can get 95% of the way there by not test driving a trade. But, without a test drive, I'd be afraid I may overlook something. Still, it can be done.
driver....I bought my Acura because of the way it drives, like you did your BMW. To get a BMW that drives as well as my TL, it would have cost me about $50K. Is it worth it? I'm sure some would think so because of the hood ornament making up the difference. To each their own. People buy what they buy for all kinds of different reasons.
Status doesn't mean diddly squat to me, maybe because I don't have any to begin with. I prefer a well-made cheap watch vs a well made expensive watch. Fact is, a watch is the only jewelry I wear. No wedding ring....just a watch. I've heard jewelers go on and on about the quality of a watch, the "bling", etc. There's a general belief that Swiss made is better than Japan made (Seiko pretty much put that unfounded rumor to bed). And, that Timex is cheap because their watches are made cheap. Not so.
I've got Tags, Tissots, an Omega and some others. I prefer a Timex as a daily watch. They're made every bit as well. I can only imagine what the build is on their $700 watch, given how well their $100 watches are made.
Your quote was: "What is the angle between the hour and minute hands on a clock at 12:30?" Using the word "between" tells us the location of the hands. Had you added the words "...using minutes to determine the degrees", then we would have known to be more precise in our calculations. Without the added information, we simply deduce a pie shape and formulate a quick response. This quick response tends to lead us to conclude that a fourth grade question was posed to adult students. Still, your question is worthy of a thoughtful and bright teacher who brings physics alive for his students. (Smile goes here.)
Now about those emotorcons---(Grin goes here.)
Richard
It depends on the importance in degrees that the item means to you. This what I mean, I am happy with a $10 bottle of wine for the 2 times I have wine a month. Buying a $50 bottle would be a waste of money for me.
I appreciate that extra bit of handling and finish that a BMW has over other cars. I like the styling more and the European touches the car has. I notice the difference.
I used to wear a Timex for many years, then a Seiko. My wife bought me a designer watch that is quite expensive...and I didn't want it at first. But, she insisted. I got to like it and the fact is it is built right out of good materials. It feels right, has the right balance, fits on my wrist properly, and since it will last for 20 years cost isn't much of a factor.
I guess what I am saying is, it depends on how important the item is to you...how much you want to pay for it, and of course you need the money to pay for it if you really want it. Believe it or not, I didn't buy a BMW for it's status symbol image, I bought it because it suits me better than any other car. If I was looking for status I might have bought a 5 or a 7 Series BMW, but I like the size and feel of a 3 Series more.
I agree, some people buy for the status of the car, but I think a majority buy it because they like the car itself, and think it is worth the extra dollars.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Richard
Some customers do the same thing. A lot of times, I would have a customer interested in a used car and they had no desire to drive it. They knoew what they were buying and they knew we had gone over it completly.
I once bought a 8 year old Miata from a very fussy original owner. It was garaged and it was pouring rain outside. I started it up, listened to it, asked a few questions and gave him a deposit. I picked it up the next day. Great car!
They would tell me " I know what others are paying"
Sometimes the numbers were possible and other times pure fiction.
I had to be extra nice to these people as they left slowly shaking their heads.
I had to make suer that after they beat their heads against the wall trying to match some phony number that they would come back to me.
Some did but I know others didn't want to give me the satisfaction of showing them how wrong those numbers were.
Richard
Heck, i got 18 years out of a $30 one. Technically the watch still works. The stem broke so I can't set it or use the alarm anymore but during daylight time it's still right on the mark. In standard time it's exactly an hour off. I don't have the heart to junk it until the battery dies. It was on its third band. I'll save that for the current watch when its band wears out. i'd love a higher end watch just for the heck of it but the kids are too expensive a hobby already....
The local drug store had a display set up on their counter where a Times was on a platform that dunked it over and overr into a water tank and beat it against a hard piece of plastic. Very impressive!
Nice try, Richard. However, the colon in 12:30 unambiguously specifies a time. As such, the location of the hands can only be inferred but you jumped to the conclusion that the hour hand is on the 12.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Excellent! I'll keep you posted. I'm still researching a Cherokee replacement, but the Ridge is high on my list.
Hey, at least I kept it remotely automotive with the outboard motor.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Richard--
That reminded me of a story about a restaurant chain in MI (also N Ohio and N Indiana) called Bill Knapps. It was what was once called a family dining establishment. They were quite popular surviving from the late 40s until the early 90s. Knapps had a policy that seniors would earn a percentage discount equivalent to their age on their birthday (above age 65). Well, my grandmother took full advantage of that and was well into the 90+% discount before the chain went out of business. I used to kid her and tell her that she would eventually be getting money back from them. She did live to be over 100, but by then the chain had been out of business for several years.
So, I guess my point is that if you stick around long enough Edmunds will pay you for each post--maybe for each word--so make sure you break future sales stories into multi-part sagas.
Gogiboy
mako--
What about "Brylcreem, a little dab 'l do ya" or "Plop, plop, fizz, fizz, oh what a relief it is"? My favorite: "More doctors smoke Camels".
Gogiboy
NY--
I think that they should split up the prices paid forums and have a section called "Prices paid: Cash only, no trade".
At least there would be some semblance of comparing apples to apples. Of course, there would be the difference in region, time of month, etc, etc. Oh, forget it. I'm also predicting a cash only forum would be mostly filled with tumbleweeds and crickets. What percentage of new car deals are cash only, no trade in? 1%?
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I heard they had Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble smoking Newports in one commercial. Yabba Dabba... cough... cough... hack...Dooooo! :P
I thought the doctors smoked Chesterfields... nah, that was Reagan's pitch job.
I really like the "Far Side" cartoon that says "The *real* reason why dinosaurs became extinct."
It then showed a couple of dinosaurs smoking. :sick:
Is he related to Patrick Swayze?
:P
While I own a number of watches, the one I wear the most is a Citizen Eco-Drive. Apparently, the movement of my arm keeps the battery charged, or something like that.
I did, however, manage to lose the owners manual, so every day at 3:41PM, the alarm goes off. And, today, it shows the day as the 22nd of the month.
:sick:
If the model number is on the back of the watch you might be able to “google” it to see if a manual pops up or maybe just the instruction that you’re looking for.
I’m not a google person but it seems like most everyone else is.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I guess that is one reason that I never cared for math. I always wondered just how specific one has to be in doing calculations, and why there are multiple ways to reach the same answer. Actually, geometry was my favorite math course. I enjoyed doing the proofs. College algebra and trig were means to an end----get rid of those required courses to reach my major. When I started graduate school, statistics was required. I thought that I wouldn't live through that course. It was the only "B" that I got. I think that the professor got so tired of my interpretations (not based on his accurate data), that he gave it to me to just get rid of me. It's like the way that you must feel now. I know that I'm a non-relenting pest. My wife used to say that I should have been a lawyer because the jury and judge would have decided in my favor just to get rid of me.
As I used to tell my students, I like to be fair. Prove me wrong and I'll cave. In your case, you are the physics and math expert. I SHOULD yield to your expertise. I'm not saying that I am; I'm just saying that I SHOULD. (Joke goes here.) :P
Richard
I just hope you are not at a funeral when that happens.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I just hope you are not at a funeral when that happens.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Secondly, following the $6K offer on the Explorer, I negotiated an additional $3K off the SRX. If they rolled a discount over into the Explorer, that means that they lowered the price of the SRX at least $4K. While that doesn't seem likely, perhaps that is exactly what they did. Then again, there are factors of which we have no knowledge. Perhaps they knew a customer that wanted an Explorer in good shape. On Edmunds, the '03 Explorer was listed as "the manager's most wanted vehicle" for that year and model. It's one of those little red star flags put beside a vehicle when you research it. Also, the banker could have been a "baby seal" when he traded for the new SRX. It's hard to tell how much money the dealer had in the SRX once traded.
Thirdly, the Explorer could be on the dealer's lot. Among his used cars, I noticed a Chevy Blazer, a Chrysler 300, and a Town Car, among others. I'll have to check and see.
Richard
At my cousin's funeral, a cell phone rang during the service...in the family section! I was mortified because there were only ten people in the family section including spouses. We are so small now. The phone belonged to my other cousin. He turned beet red and couldn't turn it off fast enough.
Richard
For me always the difference is crucial,not the actual numbers. The Explorer trade may be 15k and the SRX 40k-so the difference is 25k or Explorer maybe 2k and SRX 27k-doesn't matter. The difference is what matters and that`s 25k. Also ,here's a list of SRX prices on Ebay - actual purchaseable values- with no counteroffer or bidding or negotiations- These are mostly the 2010 and 2009 models. Prices range from 32k-35k and upto 38k based on options and all of them have less than 15k miles. The dealer IMO gave an overallowance on Explorer to counter the price on SRX.6k for a ubiquitous,gas hog Explorer with 110k miles -- on the higher side I feel.
link title
Huh, good point.
Since I work from home, the watch is usually in a drawer with my keys and wallet and I never hear it.
And, whoever suggested I google the model or serial number and find a manual that way -- excellent idea! I'll see if the manual is on-line as a .pdf document.
Richard
Try here: http://www.timex.com/info/Product_Instruction_Guides_Downloads
Can't say I saw that but I once saw an anti smoking ad with Popeye. Yes someone with a pipe in their mouth telling kids not to smoke.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D