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Comments
Your monitor upgrade story gave me a laugh, but now you are up to date with your computer hardware/software, so you are better off.
Started Xmas shopping yesterday. We bought my mom a new tv.
We haven't bought one in about 5 years, so we figured out there are a lot of nice ones out there. It doesn't have a dipstick, so it must be a good one.
Anyways, my wife was very interested in the tv's we looked, she even suggested we go to shopping for it, although not for us.
I think we will be getting a new one soon, too.
Bought new cars in 08 and 09, and time is running out this year.
Maybe next year.
When you didn't post for a while, driver tried to pick up the slack.
It is sort of like when the starter can't play and the backup fumbles the ball trying to exceed their ability.
I don't blame them, they had good intentions, it just didn't work.
Even though the teammates are kind of upset, they still support them by walking over to provide some sort of encouragement and hope they do better in the future.
It was 1962 before they had them.
You're a great guy for buying your mom a new TV for Christmas. I used to love doing things like that for my mother after Dad passed away. Your mom will enjoy many hours of pleasure because of you.
Richard
If BMW sent yoju a letter offering to install a dipstick at no charge on your BMW you wouldn't have it installed?
If they sent such a letter, obviously it would because they had some concerns about their diagnostic system.
But, nope, you would just keep on trusting?
Give me a break!
Whatever happened to ..." Trust, but verify"?
Richard
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Could you please add me to that illustrious list?
Not sure what your point is and this is my last post to you.
I certainly have mentioned my cars in here before, so not sure why the tone of your post. We have a 07 Passat 4Motion Wagon and a 08 Jeep Grand Cherokee.
WOW I don’t know what to say. I’ve never heard of anyone doing something like that. I see that your PC was old and was due for a replacement but still !!!
As for that dining room furniture that you’re being offered, well misery loves company, good luck with that. I could give you some pointers about that but it involves pulling the plug on a wishful thinking wife. Are you up to that?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
You can speak for me at least.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Thanks for cooperating. I was just trying to see why you are so easily offended, just because I prefer a computerized warning system compared to the tried and true, but kind of archaic dipstick. I thought your choice of car might give me some insight as to why you are always ready to pounce when I say something.
Sorry to you all if I was over the top a bit in some of my comments. Some are exagerations, some are sarcastic, but they are mostly written to be entertaining, and I think there was quite a run on this topic, probably a record number of posts especially for a weekend.
I give the most credit to JMonroe who never complained, never got personal, just gave it back in a nice polite way.
I am here for entertainment and to learn a few things. I would rather stir you up than be boring. There wasn't much happening before the great dipstick debate so I did take literary licence and go over the top a bit.
But the essence of what I said was true for me. The first time the oil warning sign came on I went looking for the dipstick. When I couldn't find it I checked the manual, and it explained what the lights mean. If you prefer checking a dipstick a few times a month then go ahead, it doesn't harm anyone. After I got over the shock of finding out there wasn't a dipstick in my car I got to like the idea. I am only speaking for myself, but if given a choice, I will take the light over the dipstick easily.
This isn't a big huge issue. It is just my personal preference. One way isn't good and the other is bad, one isn't right and the other wrong. Some people like vanilla and some like chocolate and peanutbutter ice cream. No big deal.
Once you get used to power windows you don't want to crank windows any more. Once you get remote control door locks you don't want to open and close doors manually any more. I have a very sophisticated warning light and I don't want to look at another dipstick ever again....but that is just me.
That is the end of the topic for me unless someone asks a direct question.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Me too
Same here.....
She did mention thinking about getting a new car, although she admits her 03 Malibu will probably be her last one.
I still spend time thinking about what would be the best one, in case she decides she is going to get one.
My first choice would be the new Jetta.
BTW, it is not a one way street. She has helped us out with contributing towards the kids education.
Thank you. I appreciate knowing that I helped someone's life through something I did. It's good to know that.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
And if that didn't work you could light a match.
keith and richard (as opposed to Keith Richards) - be well!
Great story on the computer! You did well on the replacement.
Ask your wofe what she wants for the dining room set. Include shipping costs.
Glad that you are comfortable trusting technology, I'm not that trusting.
You keep calling it a diagnostic system, but do you really know how the car figures out how much life is left in the oil? I doubt that the car is doing a running analysis of the oil, so how exactly is it doing its calculations? What is it measuring? What is it NOT measuring or taking into consideration?
And as others have stated, technology does fail and seldom at a convenient time or place.
As for the aircraft question, my experience is from a helicopter pilot that I worked with; before every cold start he did a full visual inspection, and then before leaving the ground checked all electronics/gauges.
The motors are equipped with an oil quality sensor connected to the cars computer system, as well as an oil level indicator. These two sensors as well as sensors from the cars CAN-BUS system feed additional data such as Speed, Engine and Coolant Temperature, Load Factor, RPM, and Engine Oil Temperature. Additional factors, such as operating conditions, stop and go driving, high speed driving, cold starts, and oil usage are also measured.
In addition oil degradation is correlated directly with its ability to conduct electric current. The engines are fitted with a digital oil quality dielectric sensor, that is mounted above the oil pan along with an analog oil level sensor. This sensor measures changes in capacitance, which effectively is a proxy for the amount and type of contaminants and oil degradation products present in the oil. An increase in dielectric constant (less resistance to electrical flow) indicates oil contamination and degradation.
All this is calculated to determine the time/distance between oil changes. This system has been in use for about 12 years, and has proven to be trouble free. And a dipstick is nice to double check now and then.
So if I have this right, there are 2 sensors, one is oil level and the other is electric/electronic measuring electrical resistance in the oil. These 2 gauges plus the electronic sensors of how the engine has been used are what determines oil life.
If you know, can the dielectric constant be used to determine the state of the oil additives? ie car is driven infrequently and may take 2 years to get to 15K. Does that mean the system is OK with the oil being changed every 2 years or is there a time calculation in with it?
Personally, I like car tech and appreciate that it adds to the overall safety. What bothers me about all the tech is that the average Joe on the road depends on it to the point of ignoring common sense. Case in point is the 4x4/AWD drivers that end up in the ditch on snowy roads.
2) On many cars, there is an Oil Level Sensor. It's set to turn on an indicator when the oil level is down 1 quart. I think I've read of a car that will indicat 1 1/2 or 2 quarts low.
3) On many cars, there is an Oil Percent Remaining indicator, tied to various warning messages telling you to change the oil.
As far as I know, there is NO Oil 'analysis' sensorm, that is doing an analysis of the 'condition' of the oil. On any car.
The Percentage being set in my Number 3 above is an ongoing calculation being made in one of the cars computers. It uses miles driven, number of engine starts, if the engine reaches a certain operating termperature before being stopped, RPMs seen, speed, etc. When the oil is changed, the Percentage is to be manually re-set to 100%. The computer makes its ongoing calculations using the variables named. And reduces the Percentage, using some algorithum. When the Percentage drops to certain levels, some cars display various messages prompting an oil change. At the oil change, the indicator should be re-set to 100%.
If you changed your oil every 500 miles, but did not re-set the Percentage to 100%, the car would never know you have new/almost new oil in the car. The percentage would drop to 0.
There is no 'oil analysis' going on.
It didn't care if I was hammering the car on the DC Beltway or on a Sunday drive.
It used the SWAG system. Sophisticated Wild [non-permissible content removed] Guess and mileage counter.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
For several years, automakers like General Motors, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz have installed computerized systems that alert drivers via an instrument panel light when it’s time to change oil. As an example, the General Motor Oil Life System (GMOLS) analyzes the engine temperature, rpms, vehicle speeds, and other driving conditions to calculate the rate of engine oil degradation. Then, software calculates when the oil needs to be changed. Other systems work similarly.
Because of the many external conditions and parameters that have to be taken into account, calculating the precise maximum service interval using mathematical models alone is difficult. Now, Daimler AG has developed a more direct and precise way to monitor oil quality directly on board a vehicle.
Daimler uses a special sensor integrated into the oil circuit to monitor engine oil directly. Oil doesn’t wear out, but rather dirt and impurities cause oil to lose its ability to lubricate properly, dictating the need for a change. Daimler uses the oil’s “permittivity,” that is, the ability to polarize in response to the electric field. If the engine oil is contaminated by water or soot particles, it polarizes to a greater extent and its permittivity increases.
To evaluate the quality of the oil, permittivity is measured by applying an AC potential between the interior and exterior pipes of an oil-filled sensor to determine how well the oil transmits the applied electric field.
Because not all impurities can be measured with sufficient precision via the electric field method, Daimler also measures the oil’s viscosity to detect any fuel that may have seeped into the oil. Daimler researchers measure viscosity while the vehicle is in motion by observing the oil’s side-to-side motion in the oil sump. The slower the oil moves, the higher its viscosity. This movement is registered by a sensor and the viscosity is calculated on this basis.
A single sensor, along with the information already monitored by on-board computers, is sufficient to determine the various parameters of the engine oil. Daimler will likely use the technology first on its commercial vehicles. Here, large oil reservoirs mean larger quantities of oil can be saved. Plus, a predicted 25 percent increase between service intervals and reduced downtime will be of interest to fleets, and thus justify the added cost of installation.
oil monitors
The article also explains that you are wasting money and oil by getting oil changes too frequently. Greatly improved oils, including synthetic oils, coupled with better engines mean longer spans between oil changes without harming an engine. The 3000 mile interval is a carryover from days when engines used single-grade, non-detergent oils.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Like most here, whomever gets my vehicles after I've finished with them gets the proverbial cream puffs. They are maintained religiously, always garaged, and washed/waxed regularly.
You guys have to excuse me for a moment as I need to vent about something totally non-car or car sales related. However, it might be recognizable as something that has happened while shopping for cars.
I mentioned that I was in the market for a new flat screen TV. I have one in my home theater, but also wanted one for my den.
Spied a nice Panasonic 50" on Black Friday at Best Buy. By the time I got there, they were sold out. Went to a local HH Gregg and they had one and would meet BB's price. However, the one they had in the box was cracked when I inspected it (at the store). Since it was their last one (at least last one of that particular model), they offered to give me the next Panasonic up in the model range for the same price. Only to find out, they didn't have any of those in stock, either.
I thanked them for their time and decided to give up my quest and began to leave the store. Those of you who have HH Gregg's in the neighborhood know that they are fairly aggressive when it comes to sales, as they're on commission. Sales person asks me to wait just a moment until he checks his other stores. He finds one for me at a store not too far away. I tell him I'd be more than happy to go to that store to pick it up. He insists on having it sent to his store and I can pick it up there (there's that commissioned sales deal kicking in). It is a helluva deal so I agree. I pay for the TV and tell the sales person I wouldn't be able to pick up the TV until this past weekend as I was going to be in Orlando for work.
Not a problem. That would give plenty of time for the TV to be delivered to his store. He'd put a copy of my receipt on the TV in the warehouse when it comes in, and mark it SOLD!
Since I no longer have my Tahoe, and the TV is certainly not going to fit in my TL, I had to rely on one of my friends to use his truck to pick it up.
Saturday rolls around. My friend and I agree to head to HH Gregg for pickup about noon to pick up the TV. We get there, I spy my sales person. He immediately comes up and says that there's a problem. Apparently, another sales person sold MY TV, the one I had already paid for, out of the back room of the store, even though my name was all over it, including a copy of the receipt showing it was mine.
I'm pretty laid back, but enough is enough. I explain that I think what the other sales person did was unethical, selling a TV that's already been sold to some one else (me). And, that HH Gregg had not only inconvenienced me, but my friend, too. But, just refund the purchase price and we'll just call it a lesson learned....no more shopping at HH Gregg for me.
The store manager wanted to apologize in person, if I would only wait around one more moment. I explain that the gesture is nice, I really didn't want to waste any more time in the store.
Cut to the chase, right as I was headed within 5 feet of the front door, the manager catches me, apologizing profusely and asks if there's anything he can do to work something out to retain my business (these guys are hard core). I tell him I appreciated the apology, but I really wasn't in the mood to wait around and to start my shopping all over again.
"What if we offer you the 3D Panasonic TV for the same price as the lower end model you were looking for"?
Hmmmmmm......I hesitate for a moment.
"You need a stand? I'll knock off $100 on any stand in the store for you."
Me....."you have the TV in stock?"
"Yessir....that's what I was checking on when your sales person asked you to wait a moment".
ME...."Let's see the TV". It is indeed, very nice.....50" plasma 3D.
But, my budget was $700 (the black Friday price for the lowest end Panasonic 50" TV). This one was $1,700......a $1,000 more.
ME...."let me see the receipt on it, to make sure we're talking no more out of pocket by me."
He wrang it up. Everything was copacetic. I did indeed take him up on his $100 off a "sale" stand they had, too.
We loaded it up, and set it up yesterday.....quite nice.
So, would you have done business with HH Gregg under the same circumstances? I felt a little "dirty" by doing so.
Yes, time is factored, with one year being the maximum between oil changes regardless of mileage.
Many of us on these forums know a cars basic maintenance requirements, but more don't. Some modern cars can slap the driver in the face with an array of messages essentially saying "Hey, I need my oil changed". This is probably a good thing.
But instead of feeling dirty, think of it this way: The salespeople there work on commission. If you had cancelled the sale and returned it, not only would HH Gregg have lost a customer for good but the salesperson you worked with would have been charged back on the commission. It was not necessarily his fault, and he is hustling to make a living - during the holidays you let him keep a little extra money in his pocket. Not such a dirty thing to me.
I would have felt "clean" as in you "cleaned up" big time.
A $1700 TV for $700 just because they liked your swagger. BooYa! GG.
How bout finding me a GT Mustang for V6 price with all your MoJo. j/k
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Buy a $1,700 plasma tv for $700 plus $100 off any stand? Hail yeah I would have done business with those slease balls. They did pull a sleasy trick, but they redeemed themselves by giving you a great deal.
I would have been interested in knowing why a salesperson sold a tv that was already marked sold? Oh yeah, they proably sold it for retail.
As for your tinge of guilt, it is not well founded. You were terribly inconvenienced. You had your friend doing you a favor, plus using his truck for delivery. You spent your time returning to the store to pick up the original agreed upon product. The store made a mistake, and they corrected that mistake. If fate handed you a better deal, then consider the incident as a stroke of good fortune. You are a very ethical and professional person. You did nothing to "rip off" the store. You accepted the original deal in good faith. The store will "write off" the difference as a "customer satisfaction" issue. They allow for such things in their overall planning. They know that things happen at times that need certain corrections and modifications.
Enjoy your new product. Share it with others. That way, it is a god thing. For you to even be concerned about the situation says a great deal about you as a person. That's one reason that you are respected on this thread.
Richard
You have no reason whatever to feel guilty. You could have simply said.." No, I don't want to do business with you no matter what you do for me at this point"
I'm guessing you may be thinking you should have done that rather than give them the satisfaction of making a sale. I probably would have been tempted to do that just out of stubborness after being in retail all of my life.
But, I would have grabbed the deal. They made a terrible mistake and I'm sure people were taken to task over this. They sucked up hundereds of dollars selling you that TV and it makes me think more of them.
I wouldn't be surprised if they fired the guy who sold your TV out from under you.
Since I only see life in 2D I'm not concerned with 3D TV but that's me. My one experience with 3D in the theater was annoying. When Despicable Me was out we went only to find it was only showing in 3D for which they charged extra. I paid it that time because I didn't want to disappoint a couple of 9 year olds but never again.
The definitions of "Troll" and "passive aggressive" come to mind. Still a very entertaining thread... saved myself about $30 by not going to the movies.
The first time the oil warning sign came on I went looking for the dipstick. When I couldn't find it I checked the manual, and it explained what the lights mean
Shame shame shame in not reading your owners manual. :P
Once you get used to power windows you don't want to crank windows any more. Once you get remote control door locks you don't want to open and close doors manually any more
That's not a realistic comparison. The power windows and locks are to make getting in and our of the vehicle easier. The oil maintenance light is to keep you from ruining a $8,000 engine. Yeah, I'd take the do all oil maintenance light as it sounds pretty cool, but give me the oil dipstick too, as things can and do go wrong with sensors and lights.
On the other hand, they did sell a TV I had already paid for, and was technically mine. If I were that store manager, I'd be looking up that sales person and deducting the commission from his paycheck. The sales person cost HH Gregg $1,000 (the delta between the price of the 3D TV and the TV I had originally bought).
OK....didn't take long. Pangs of guilt have subsided. I'm OK with the deal....LOL! :shades:
You know, I'm thinking, with the weather in the mid-west turning cold and snowy right now, you should be able to score a deal on a Mustang. Chicago dealers are pretty aggressive. How far away are you from them? I have a couple of Ford dealers I like around Cincinnati, if you want to head to the frozen tundra.
Yup. I won't be doing business with Best Buy after time after time of being treated to "tough nookies" by their store associates and policies.
We found HH G to be just as you found. They intend to make a sale. I'm not sure why the salesman wanted the TV moved to his store. I recall our salesman completed the sale of our TV which was in stock at another store and we, happily, went there to pick it up. I assume he got the commission on that sale: the other store did nothing other than check our paperwork and remove it from stock.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That said, I would imagine that a sales person could start selling stock at any of HH Gregg's stores, regardless of where they are physically located.
I think there's probably some really funky things that go on at those stores. I can't imagine HH Gregg made any money on my TV given that consumer electronics are slim margin businesses. The sales people (and their managers) only want to rack up revenue, regardless of it's profitability.
My receipt actually shows the delta in price for the 3D TV as a "Manager's customer satisfaction adjustment".
I would hope that someone, somewhere within HH Gregg gets paid on profit and not just revenue.
Easy answer---happens more than you know. Forty three years ago, my wife went to pick up her wedding dress at Montaldo's (out of business now) in Charlotte, N.C. She and her mother had spent months looking for just the right dress. The dress was not a stock item. It had been made for my wife from a designer's drawing...a true original.
A prominent socialite from Charlotte saw the dress hanging in the back room near the dressing area. She and her mother pressured the sales lady into letting her try it on "just for fun". The "fun" turned into aggressive tactics to purchase the dress. The assistant manager was called into the negotiations. The tragic result was that the dress was sold---political and social pressure having won the day.
Naturally, my wife was devastated. The store manager had a dying duck fit when he found out what had happened. On top of that, he had to deal with my mother-in-law who had a reputation across the state for being a very aggressive woman in politics. It was one ugly scene I can assure you. The store paid out the nose for that error.
My wife was allowed to select any dress that she wanted from their six stores across the country, at no cost. Obviously, it was too late to make one from scratch. In addition, the store wrote a check for $5,000 to my mother-in-law for the "inconvenience and emotional stress" involved. That was big money in 1967. I think that you can imagine what happened to the sales lady and the assistant manager.
My wife ended up with a beautiful dress, but she would have looked great in a tow sack as far as I was concerned. Her mother had the dress pressured sealed and packed after the wedding. Thirty years later, my niece wore it for her own wedding.
Richard
Anyway, I made an appointment to drive the car and the old sled just didn't radiate that "gotta have it" vibe I was looking for. Later that day the salesperson called and said another customer wanted to make an offer and he wanted to give me the right of first refusal. I hesitated for a second and then said "Thanks but no thanks." I checked the dealer website the next day and the car was gone, so the salesperson was telling the truth.
In retrospect I'm glad I passed. Life is way too short to drive something that doesn't give me a big grin every time I get behind the wheel. It looks like I'm going to wind up in either a Cayman S, an M3/M5, or an RS4/S4.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
And me as well.
Fezo,
It is just you. I suggest, you get your eyes check out ASAP :P
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
This a perfect example of what would not be said in person.
Hasn't anyone ever heard of letting sleeping dogs lie?
It must make driving, very challenging in heavy traffic as you lose depth perception.
How do you make out?
As for the furniture, I may not win this one. Yesterday, she mentioned that I had purchased two cars in two years, and that I shouldn't object to the dining room furniture. I may have one ace in the hole. I had agreed some time ago to remodeling the master bath. I could now point out that the remodel equals one car. We'll see who wins this "battle of the sexes".
Richard
My corrected (contacts) vision isn't quite 20-20 but I don't always use both eyes at the same time. I tend to look out one eye at a time. Two operations as a child.
Last week I had my first eye exam in 15 years. All is well. He tweaked my perscription and now I'm seeing better with my new contacts.
It's something I've compensated for all of my life and few people even know about it.
Just you guys!
I also realize that you say some things to just get the juices flowing. That's fine if done in the correct spirit and with humor. You're a really nice guy, but you tend to get carried away in an effort to make your point. I've seen you be very diplomatic at times, especially early on in your postings. Try to retain that mode of thinking. You have contributed many good thoughts and ideas here. Let's keep that going.
Best,
Richard
Richard