Stories from the Sales Frontlines

im_brentwood

Thought of you last night... I was driving up the FDR drive and hit traffic...

A Discovery was in the right lane, hood up, flashers on!

isellhondas

The best part of those Land Rovers was the aluminum 215 cubic inch Buick Special engine that they used for YEARS!

Funny, Buick gave up on them after 1963.

It seems like the Brits will buy any castoff if the price is right!

driver100

PS I know there's another board for this but I'd like both pro and non pro opinions

A few things, in no particular order:
*That's a smart looking car. I thought your Mits would be a stodgy 4 door sedan. Not what I pictured a hard working very conservative, wise and slightly elderly Old Farmer to be driving. That's a pretty slick car.
*I am shocked at the price. Of course you won't get that much in a trade, unless you sell it privately.
*The car in question has pretty low mileage, so the purchaser is getting a fairly new car in some ways.
*Just a lay persons opinion, but I think that price looks high...but who knows, used cars are fetching big bucks, it is a car that would appeal to a certain segment of the population, you are getting a pretty nice car for the price of say a new Focus. :confuse:

driver100

It seems like the Brits will buy any castoff if the price is right!

And we Canadians paid 100s of millions for some of their old subs which are always breaking down. Seems their subs aren't any better than most of their older cars....Jaguar excepted!

isellhondas

I wouldn't step foot in a British sub!

They probably leak and have Lucas electrical systems!

oldfarmer50

"...I thought your Mits would be a stodgy 4 door sedan.."

A non-stodgy Mitsu 4 door sedan: :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4CfWdoSOTk&feature=relmfu

If I had $40k this is the one I'd be driving.

nyccarguy

I'm following the posts on your roadtrip very closely! I see you are having a spectacular time. I'm proud of you & think it is so awesome that you are taking this vacation.

Happy 4th of July everyone!

driver100

If I had $40k this is the one I'd be driving.

I see what you mean...that would be tempting.
Though, $49k could buy a lot of nice cars, but this one is definitely worth considering.

driver100

I wouldn't step foot in a British sub!
They probably leak and have Lucas electrical systems!

That's funny! I knew as soon as they announced they bought these subs they would be nothing but trouble. If the Brits can't make a dependable car how could they make a dependable sub.

gogiboy

An update on my brother's Honda Odyssey (good name, given his adventure). It turns out I was wrong about the year, it's an 05. They had trouble with the previous transmission about 8 months ago so that's when it was rebuilt. My brother's trusted Honda Mechanic jobbed it out to a shop down the street, but it was one that the mechanic had complete faith in.

The good news is it's still under some kind of warranty and his mechanic will almost certainly go to bat for him with the transmission shop. The bad news is it was over $500 to ship it back to GA. My brother said they would have just gotten a rental, but everything was closed for the 4th of July weekend.

I should point out that he is the second owner and he didn't say whether he suspected that the van was subject to excessive towing or poorly maintained by the previous owner.

He won't know the extent of the damage until he returns to Atlanta. On reason he took the Honda is it has 40K fewer miles and more usable space than the MPV.

Gogiboy

gogiboy

Yesterday I saw the new Fiat 500 parked in front of a neighbor's house. I didn't check it out closely, but my casual observation as I drove past is that it's tiny--perhaps smaller than the Mini and not much larger than a Smart for 2. The body seems a bit truncated like the Smart, too.

Who do you suppose the market is for the 500? Can't imagine anyone over 30 driving one, but, then the Honda Element and Scion xB demographic is not what either manufacturer anticipated. One can only hope that reliability has improved even though the car looks like a throwback to another era.

Who's selling the Fiat anyway, Chrysler? Since Fiat owns Chrysler shouldn't they have their own dealer network?

Gogiboy

gogiboy

"That's a smart looking car. I thought your Mits would be a stodgy 4 door sedan. Not what I pictured a hard working very conservative, wise and slightly elderly Old Farmer to be driving. That's a pretty slick car."

Driver--

Funny, I had the exact same reaction as you even though I remembered farmer mentioning the eclipse. It just doesn't fit his forum handle. I had him pegged as driving either a beat up old Ford F100 pickup or similar vintage Chevy or Dodge Ram caked with mud and manure--maybe a gunrack. I think he said his one son drives an old Caddy, which reinforced the image. It could also be the "50" next to the "old farmer", which suggest either minimum age or maximum speed. Obviously it pays not to read to much into anyone's forum name.

Gogiboy

stickguy

similar size to the mini, and way bigger than a smart car.

And I am way over 30, and actually like it!

They are being sold through new stores branded for fiat. Mostly seem to be connected to Dodge stores. Somewhere between scion and Mini?

graphicguy

gogi....here in Cincinnati, the Fiat dealership is standalone. It just so happens to be next to the Porsche and Smart dealership (if I didn't know better, I'd swear the Porsche and Smart dealership is in the same building...odd bedfellows).

Haven't seen one driven by someone, but have seen probably 30 of them on display at the dealership when I've passed it.

I've read most of the trade rags regarding the 500. They say it's cute, and much better than the SMART (not too difficult to do). But, not as good as a Mini, but less expensive than a Mini.

Chrysler is majority owned by Fiat (and will soon be totally owned by Fiat). To my knowledge, they wil be totally separate brands, though....sold ad serviced separately, too.

murphydog

Gogiboy -

Wife would drive one, she likes the style and has a short little commute, no freeway.

To me the 500 offers unique style at a much better price than say a Mini - but if we were really looking at a little car I would by the Fit - looks good and costs less...

:shades:

kyfdx

I'd swear the Porsche and Smart dealership is in the same building...

They are...

oldfarmer50

"...If the Brits can't make a dependable car how could they make a dependable sub..."

Yeah, and I hear the resale value on those subs is terrible.

graphicguy

kyfdx...I've neer been in either of the Porsche, Smart dealerships in Kings. But passing by, I noted they were next to each other. I didn't know they shared the same building. Very odd pairing. I can't see anyone cross shopping those brands, nor the customer of one brand being interested in the other brand.

Then, the Fiat dealership is next to them both.

Odd pairings.

driver100

I saw this story which reminds me of the conversation about whether to wear a helmet or not on a motorcycle:

Motorcyclist killed in anti-helmet rally
The Associated Press
Posted: Jul 4, 2011 9:02 AM ET
Last Updated: Jul 4, 2011 12:06 PM ET
A man riding bareheaded on one of about 550 motorcycles in an anti-helmet law rally lost control of his cycle, went over his handlebars, hit his head on the pavement and died near Syracuse, N.Y., police said Sunday.

The motorcyclist, 55-year-old Philip A. Contos, likely would have survived the accident if he'd been wearing a helmet, state troopers said.

The accident happened Saturday afternoon in Onondaga, a town in central New York near Syracuse.

Contos, of Parish, hit his brakes, and his motorcycle fishtailed and went out of control, flipping him over the handlebars, police said. He was pronounced dead at a hospital.

Life can be stranger than fiction!

oldfarmer50

"...I had him pegged as driving...a beat up old Ford F100 pickup..."

Ha ha ha! Thanks for giving me my best laugh in weeks. You're not too far off. I did have a 1985 F150 pickup for many years. It went to the crusher with over 250K miles and I replaced it with a 1988 GMC Vandura van. The veggies I haul to market don't seem to care that it's an old beater. No manure (I don't have animals) and no gun rack, although with my deer problem I'm thinking of picking up a machine gun.

I have a split personality when it comes to cars. I have always lusted after high-performance new cars but my economic realities forced me to hunt for beater bargains all my life. While most of you guys love those 2yo CPOs I tend to desire either brand new or 15 yo low milage value cars.

As to my age, let's just say that I'm as old as my tongue but older than my teeth.

oldfarmer50

"...I can't see anyone cross shopping those brands..."

I don't know, anybody that could plunk down 150 large for one of those Porsche super cars probably would buy a smart car for the maid so she could always be on time for work.

The sales tax on the Porsche would be more than MSRP on the Smart.

jayrider

Saw a Fiat last week with dealer plates. The dealership is a stand alone former Saturn store owned by a big multi-brand conglomerate. It was beige and looked tiny. I'm not sure S.W. Illinois is the right market for that car but time will tell.

jayrider

Saw the same story. My feeling is that as long as the taxpayers aren't on the hook for paying for rehab or life support, I could care less whether you wear a helmet or not.

qbrozen

Chrysler is majority owned by Fiat (and will soon be totally owned by Fiat).

I could be wrong, but I don't believe I have read that anywhere. I think they are on target to own somewhere right around 60%. The only way they will ever own it totally is if the UAW gives up their shares, which I don't think will happen.

graphicguy

q...you could be right. I remember reading something about triggers that allowed Fiat to gain more of a stake in Chrysler. IIRC (which isn't proof of anything), Fiat hit those triggers and are now the largest shareholder in Chrysler.

I don't know the percentages of equity among the UAW or the U.S. Gov't, but it's my understanding, Fiat's holding more of it.

oldfarmer50

"...I could be wrong..."

No, I think you're right. I think Fiat only owns about 20% right now and are expected to increase that share but not to majority. The government and the unions own most of it.

I looked up the Edmunds review of the 500 and they say it is targeted to compete with the Mini. I guess model to model the 500 is about $4K cheaper. I personally would like the cabrio softtop model as a kind of cheap convertible. I'm not sure I'd spend $20K+ for it though. At that point I might prefer the Mini for the better handling.

isellhondas

It's amazing what short memories people have and how things can evolve.

Fiat brought some of the worst cars ever to the U.S. when they were sold here before. The cars were junk and Fiat left the U.S. with their tails between their legs.

Oh, but now they are back! Not just back but as a part owner of one of the (former) Big Three!

Amazing....

qbrozen

MotorTrend reports they own 46%, increasing to 51% with a 40-mpg car. They are definitely the majority shareholder as is.

graphicguy

OF....if you haven't seen a 500 in person, see if you can find a dealership near you. They're cute cars (vs SMART cars, which just look weird).

Can't speak to how good of a car they are, although I know they're wildly popular in Europe (not that that means anything either).

isellhondas

After a harrowing ride once in a Smart Car I can state for the record that I would rather walk than ride in one again!

Kirstie_H

There are a couple of older folks in our neighborhood who own a SMART car. I'm hoping that they just use it to run around our very small town to do errands. I guess I look at them like a much faster and slightly larger bicycle - I don't think anything about them when they're riding in places that would be safe for most average cyclists, but elsewhere, I can't imagine feeling safe.

kyfdx

I think those two are in the same building, because they are both part of Joseph Auto Group... and, they had the space..

graphicguy

kyfdx...I thought the Fiat store was owned by Joseph, too? If not, who owns them?

Kirstie and Craig....no way, no how, you'll find me driving or riding in a SMART. It's a bad idea and a poor excuse for any mode of transportation. And yes, I'd rather ride a bike that one of those....literally.

BTW...I'm supposed to go pick up the BMW 3 tonight. You guys know most of the story. But, if you want me to put it into one post, I'll do so (given that it's actually at the dealership).

im_brentwood

Nice!

So the saga endeth?

gogiboy

As many of you probably recall, our retriever mix passed away back in mid-January. He was roughly 11 1/2 to 12 years old. He was the dog who ran away after our interstate accident in Jan, 2010, but then was miraculously found two weeks later. Our other dog, a Basenji named ZuZu, stayed by the car and was bruised and shaken up, but recovered quickly. Yesterday ZuZu died from inoperable cancer. She was 14.5 years old. Both dogs were great car travelers and frequently went cross country with us. ZuZu even liked to ride in the front passenger seat of my MR2 and look out the window at the cows and other dogs along rural highways

July 4 will never be quite as fun for me again. Life is hard!

Gogiboy

Kirstie_H

Why put it in one post and spoil the tradition of anticipation-building, multi-part stories?

nyccarguy

I'm all signed up for BMW's "Drive for Team USA" later this evening. Before I left for work this AM, my wife says to me: "It is a gorgeous Tuesday with no rain in the forecast, why aren't you taking your Prelude to work? Oh, you've got that BMW thing tonight. Don't even think about trading in the Acura."

Hmmmm. I probably won't have to interact with any sales people if I don't want to, but am curious as to what my Acura is worth. Maybe if it is worth more than I owe by about $2000, + the $1000 drive for team USA rebate, + my $500 BMWCCA rebate... maybe, just maybe :shades:

isellhondas

I'm sorry about the loss of your second dog in such a short time.

We have been there and I know how it hurts.

Remember the happy times you had together.

graphicguy

brentwood....not quite over yet. I haven't seen it, nor driven (the particular one I'm interested in). They say it's there. But again, no money has changed hands and I haven't driven it over the dealer's curb. So, we'll see.

kirstie....LOL....I guess I could tell the tale over several posts, starting with this....

About a month ago I was caught in a squeeze play (reminds me of a Steeler's Wheel song...."clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am, stuck in the middle....."). My beloved ~18 mo old Acura TL was shoved into a barricade on one side by a car who's driver was busy chatting on his cell phone on the other.

The result, there was quite a bit of damage. Fortunately, no one was hurt. But, it was seemingly, all cosmetic. This is a testament to Acuras. They are built well. They are safe. And, they're fun to drive. Plus, they are very robust cars with robust reliability.

Whether the damage affected the longevity of my car is, in all honesty, a debatable point. Plus, although the repairs seem to be all in order, my perception is that it doesn't handle as well, nor seems to be as solid as before the accident and the subsequent repairs.

Real or imagined, those issues exist for me.

So, that prompted thinking about "what would I get if I bought something today?

I didn't like the TL styling refresh for 2012, so that one was unfortunately out.

So, I narrowed them down to....

-Infinti G and M
-Audi A4, S4, A5
-BMW 3 (maybe 5).

Will pick up on this in later posts.

im_brentwood

CPO Jaguar XF?

oldfarmer50

"...definitely the majority shareholder..."

Yes, after I posted I looked it up and you are right. The transactions are kind of complicated particularly with the option to buy the shares held by the unions. :confuse:

oldfarmer50

"...They're cute (500) vs. SMART cars..."

I'd NEVER buy a smart car. Why would I spend $15K for HALF a car? :lemon:

oldfarmer50

"...I can't imagine feeling safe,,,"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJHpUO-S0i8

How about now? :surprise:

driver100

My feeling is that as long as the taxpayers aren't on the hook for paying for rehab or life support, I could care less whether you wear a helmet or not.

Unfortunately, in Canada, we do pay for other peoples stupidity. Life Liberty and Freedom are great values that have helped to make the USA strong and vibrant, but, sometimes, I think people should be protected from themselves.
IMHO, helmets for motorcycles and use of seatbelts, and no cell phones while driving should be laws.

oldfarmer50

"...Life is hard..."

Sorry about your pooch.

driver100

BTW...I'm supposed to go pick up the BMW 3 tonight.

Good luck! Watch out for the $600 Mop n Glo.

driver100

How about now?

That was impressive.
On the same site there was a Mercedes C Class crashing into a Smart Car. The MB comes out in much better shape.
It seems the Smart Car does OK in one on ones, but it doesn't seem to hold up as well when it hits something larger...especially a truck or an SUV.
The Smart Car doesn't even look stable on the road, 70 mph in a car that is taller than it is long, and with little lawn mower tires.

MB C Class VS Smart Car

driver100

Yesterday ZuZu died from inoperable cancer.

Very sorry to hear about your loss. Our little poodle Coco died at 14 also of inoperable cancer. It is sad to lose a member of the family.

Do you think you will look for another pet down the road?

We waited almost a year and then got our current dog Gigi, a Bichon. My wife said, Gigi will be very different from Coco, but you will love her just the same, for different reasons. That was very true, and I am so glad we got her.

nyccarguy

Hey, you asked me about shower bodies the Other day - you are looking for something with a body spray? Way beyond my area of expertise. Most of my customers own buildings with low income or section 8 families. Can't help you out brother. My apologies!

jwilliams2

Sorry to hear about ZuZu. They are so much more than pets. They are family. My most sincere condolences.