Stories from the Sales Frontlines

explorerx4

After reading that, I can't help but post This

snakeweasel

They didn't say it was equal. It was a fraction of a second slower,

It was 0.09 seconds slower. Thats 0.1% slower which stastically is nothing. One would suspect that at those times what would the results be if the track was run several times, or if a different driver would run the track. It might be that the Mustang is 0.1% faster.

and it didn't have the same level of "the feel of the road".

I didn't hear anything about the "feel of the road" I did hear the word "dumb" used in describing the BMW steering.

explorerx4

he probably would have been ok if he put the little red flag on the back.

snakeweasel

I do think bills should include:
1) parts (at their cost)
2) labor (at mechanic's true pay rate)
3) Shop maintenance fee (for using the equipment, tools)
4) 10% profit?
5) 10% overhead?

It is apparent that you never ran a business. The payroll taxes, workers comp and unemployment insurance on the mechanic will eat up the vast majority of that 10% overhead. Not to mention such things as rent, heat, utilities, intrest on loans, advertising, insurance and the like.

andres3

That's why I included the "?" next to 10%. Just an example. As long as it's all spelled out. Payroll taxes, workers comp, and umployment could be included in the labor rate, I'd be OKay with that. It's called fringe benefits. CA has laws about prevailing wage and labor compliance; making sure blue collar workers get paid what they are supposed to. So unlike in the auto shop where he hires undocumented immigrants for $10/hour and charges you $100/hour, construction companies actually have to play fair thanks to State regulations and oversight.

Make it 25%, even 35%, but at least I know shop A is 28% and shop B is 31% if that's the case.

The closer someone is to 10% I know they run a tight ship. The closer someone is to 40% I know they have too many magazine subscriptions for the waiting room :P

By the way, .1% is not nothing. It is substantial. In another track run, for all we know the BMW could be 1.1% faster. The fact of the matter is the BMW was faster than the Ford. Period, end of story.

0.0% = nothing.

andres3

makes all their listed installers print a price pledge and all the little costs are posted on their website. From an "upgraded weights" charge, to metal valves vs. rubber valves, if they charge for something extra, that extra has to be listed and itemized (tire disposal and other fees too).

However, that being said, this industry has a terrible time following their own price pledges. More often than not (and I've gone to several different Tirerack installers), they have a hard time matching those price pledges, and I usually have to argue and/or ask for cost corrections prior to paying the bill.

Pep Boys recently undercharged me $2.00 for a tire mounting service; I let that go by without a correction :P

That all being said, add TireRack to the list of companies I respect, admire, and that have fantastic customer service. They can't be blamed for installers they can't completely control, but it doesn't suprise me their list of installers underwent a MAJOR re-organization recently.

explorerx4

The difference in the shocks are easy to see in the braking test.
On the race course, the softer front shocks help plant the nose of the Mustang entering the turns.
With the Mustang the front sticks and you can use the throttle to move the back of the car to where you want to go.

explorerx4

My oldest called from the 550i GT on her way home from the body shop.
She said she was testing out how the Bluetooth worked with the iDrive.
The call was pretty clear, so I think it works pretty well.

driver100

After reading that, I can't help but post This

Perrrrrfect!!!!!

oldfarmer50

"...Period, end of story..."

Wow, it must have taken a long time to store up the amount of venom you're spitting here. Are you sure there isn't something else bothering you? :confuse:

This isn't professional therapy but if you want to share what you're really angry at we'll listen.

driver100

By the way, .1% is not nothing. It is substantial. In another track run, for all we know the BMW could be 1.1% faster. The fact of the matter is the BMW was faster than the Ford. Period, end of story.

Andre, I give you credit, that was really good...way to go.

Some of your statements do have some truth to them, you're just a little over the top about this. Listing cost for parts, labor, etc are good. Here the mechanic has to give you your old parts if you want them.

And, excess profit is not good. But, 10% mark up is not enough to cover your overhead and other expenses. You don't want price controls either. In Russia, they run out of toilet paper because there isn't enough profit/incentive to make it.

In America we have 10 companies trying to make the best at the cheapest cost. It's the free market system.

Your comments about the BMW/Mustang were right on. If the Mustang won by .1 seconds I would never hear the end of it.

jwilliams2

The closer someone is to 10% I know they run a tight ship. The closer someone is to 40% I know they have too many magazine subscriptions for the waiting room....

Why not just have each business open up all their books and tax filings including the owners personal tax returns for you? Maybe sit you down one on one with their accountant. Might help you make your decision to do business with them easier. :shades:

roadburner

By the way, .1% is not nothing. It is substantial.

You are right; it's not nothing, but it's just about as close to nothing as you can get. As another track rat friend likes to say, you simply cannot compare cars based solely on test results. They aren't like Pokemon cards- "My 80-0 braking distance trumps your 50-70 third gear acceleration time." Both cars in the video are fast and fun to drive; an intelligent driver will choose the car that best suits his preferences after an extended test drive- and he/she won't make the call based on a few columns of stats. In my case, I prefer the Cayman S to either, others may prefer a CTS-V or an M6. Come to think of it, I'd take an RX-8 R3 over all of the above if it was possible to coax another 100 reliable bhp out of the Renesis engine...

roadburner

Why not just have each business open up all their books and tax filings including the owners personal tax returns for you? Maybe sit you down one on one with their accountant. Might help you make your decision to do business with them easier.

Makes sense to me...
:P

explorerx4

The thing is, it's an apple to oranges comparison.
The 335 should be compared to the Mustang GT.
The M3 should be compared to the Boss 302.
I had the opportunity to drive previous generation M3 in various stages of upgrades. It was just too caffeinated for me.

imidazol97

>I-80

So another daughter is in an Ohio school. Which city?

imidazol97

> Plus which, nothing's really important until it happens on the East Coast.

I thought I was the only one who perceived the talking heads get really excited when something is affecting the East Coast instead of flyover country.

imidazol97

>This isn't professional therapy but if you want to share what you're really angry at we'll listen.

In the old days catharsis seemed to be a fairly effective therapy for minds in turmoil.

explorerx4

No, stay on I-80 to South Bend Indiana.

murphydog

I see.... so you would disclose your pay/income as well, so they would know how much room there is for a good fair price?

Works both ways right?

snakeweasel

$300 handbags?

Hate to tell you this but a lot of those $300 handbags you are paying for a name. I started a small leather goods company a long time ago with 3 other people. Fo $50 we had bags that were of such better quality than most $300 bags. And you don't want to know what some of that "imported" leather is.

snakeweasel

Do you want to know what the seller paid when they bought it?

Real estate sales are public knowledge, with a little research one can find out what the price was every time the house was sold.

nyccarguy

You guys are all so crazy with this Andre guy, nobody except tcj3 has responded to my post. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

Richard64: "Stay on the charted course that you have plotted for your TSX. It is the best thing for you & your family right now and for the foreseeable future. You'll appreciate having zero car payment on the TSX in 3 years."

roadburner: "Take the money you are going to spend leasing the G37 & get yourself a CPO E46 M3 coupe."

snakeweasel

So I know how much negotiation room there is to get a good fair price.

The profit made by the seller is of no importance in determining a "good fair price". What determines a fair price is the market place, or better put what others are willing to pay.

mako1a

You won't like my opinion, but here goes. Don't lease a car

and don't finance a car or anything for that matter. Not

having payments later will be more satisfying than acting

the part of a new car guy now. Big financial changes are

coming like a freight train and those that owe nothing will

be the only winners in these crazy financial times.

snakeweasel

The closer someone is to 10% I know they run a tight ship. The closer someone is to 40% I know they have too many magazine subscriptions for the waiting room

In a labor intensive industry 40% would be running a tight ship, 10% is a losing proposition.

By the way, .1% is not nothing. It is substantial.

I cannot think of anything where 0.1% is substantial. It's well within any margin or error.

In another track run, for all we know the BMW could be 1.1% faster.

And in another track run the Mustang could be faster. 0.1% is statistically nothing.

snakeweasel

Your comments about the BMW/Mustang were right on. If the Mustang won by .1 seconds I would never hear the end of it.

Nope, if the Mustang won I would still be calling it a statistical tie and in other track runs the BMW might have won. A time difference of 0.1% is within a margin of error. If that driver took that track 10 times in the BMW I would suspect that the time difference between his fastest and slowest times would be at least 1-2 seconds. I seriously doubt that he got the best possible time out of both cars.

mako1a

If I had been the driver the Mustang would have won by many seconds

because I would have been overwhelmed by the "feel of the road" and

slowed down to enjoy it. j/k

28firefighter

Sit tight. Sock money aside and pay as close to cash for a new car as you can when the time comes. Besides, I've leased one car and it'll be my last. I hated worrying about every little mark and every mile I drove - made it feel like it wasn't my car.

driver100

I hated worrying about every little mark and every mile I drove - made it feel like it wasn't my car.

That's the big difference in leasing compared to owning, you are really renting your car. It is like renting a place to live compared to owning...except homes usually go up in value.

At least if you don't like your car or have a financial problem you can sell the car whenever you want. Also, you don't have to worry about how many miles are on the car. And, no penalties when the lease is over.

Leasing works for business, tax deductions are a little easier to calculate in some situations, if you know you need a new car every 3 years, and if you absolutely need a new car but don't have a big enough down payment to afford it.

driver100

Honda, Audi, Crutchfield, Oakley, Maui Jim, J&R, Harmon Kardon, Onkyo, Polk Audio, Oppo, Toyota, Sony, Denon, Kenwood, Cheesecake Factory, Target, and Round Table Pizza are all excellent companies that have made and sold me a fantastic product(s),

Andre, I thought your list of likes was interesting. Why do you like Honda, Audi and Toyota, and what do you drive now.

Also, from your dislikes:1) GM and Chrysler2) Shady Auto Shops (body shops too) 3) Real Estate Agents 4) Insurance industry 5) Banking industry6) Traffic Enforcement Officers 7) Bad Drivers and LLC's 8) A few companies that have been allowed to go bankrupt already and good riddens to them (Circuit City)9) Rite Aid

Why Rite Aid?

The others I can understand, but it is best to just move on.

driver100

There are good and bad jewelers like everything else. Not everyone puts a $100 cost piece in the showcase for $800.

Tom, glad you gave your comments. That reminds me once in my illustrious career I managed a Jewellery store...it was a chain store. If you bought a watch from the manufacturer, Seiko, Bulova etc., employees got 60% off the retail price, then another 50% off that, so a $100 watch would cost $20. Manufacturers wanted us to buy their watches because people would see the staff wearing a certain brand and that would help sell that brand. There is a big mark up, but huge costs such as advertising, returns, competing with knock offs, research and development.

Now I work in book business. Costs include editors, royalty to author, sales force, advertising, then the store has to make a profit and pay their overhead.

If there was a cheaper way to do it that will happen. In the case of books Ebooks will bring costs down, I suppose E-retailers will bring the cost of jewellery down. That's how the free market system works.

driver100

I now see what you meant by splitting the difference. I think that you did really well in your negotiations. The real plus is in the trade.

Hope everything is going alright for you in NC. Hopefully Irene wasn't as bad as they thought.

I knew the black book value of my trade going in, as you suggested I check on. That was a big help. 95% of the people don't know all the things we do here, so they are at a big disadvantage. Imagine going in to buy a car and having no idea what your trade is worth and how much discount you can get on the new car? You would believe what you are told. The salesmen try to find out how astute you are from the beginning.

I forgot to mention, as I was leaving I shook hands with the salesman and thanked him for making it so painless. He said he had nothing to lose at this point, so he said you got a very good deal. 5% is the absolute maximum discount we would do, and giving you $1200 extra on the trade is just never done. I said, I know I did well, I am 100% satisfied, and we will be back to trade in my wifes car in a year or two.....and I am glad I don't have to talk to the arrogant b------- at Dealer A.

NOTE to Isell: One more thing. He said I was a very good customer to deal with. I was straightforward, didn't waste a lot of time. Everything went smoothly.

snakeweasel

Honda, Audi, Crutchfield, Oakley, Maui Jim, J&R, Harmon Kardon, Onkyo, Polk Audio, Oppo, Toyota, Sony, Denon, Kenwood, Cheesecake Factory, Target, and Round Table Pizza are all excellent companies that have made and sold me a fantastic product(s), along with great customer service (and also stood behind a product a time or two without fuss if ever necessary on a warranty claim).

OK I will chime in with some comments.

Honda, I agree

Audi, I know to many people with problems with their Audis

Oakley, way over priced.

Maui Jim, way over priced.

Toyota, certain places in the after life don't have areasa deep and hot enough for them.

Sony, Agree

Kenwood, agree

Cheesecake Factory, overpriced average quality food and lousy customer service.

Target, agree but rather shop at Meijers.

Round Table Pizza, lousy pizza. Then again every chain pizza place has lousy pizza.

The rest I don't know and/or don't have enough experience with.

tjc78

There are some decent companies in the mix there. The one company I will go out and say is fantastic is Crutchfield. If you are looking to do your own audio upgrades in your car they are great to work with. Decent home audio stuff too, just not always the cheapest around.

I haven't bought anything recently, but when I was hardcore into car audio I had an $800 top of the line Pioneer head unit that died. They shipped me a new one overnight, took the one that fried back (shipping on their dime) and even took it apart and sent me the CD that was stuck in it. All this with no questions asked.

gogiboy

"Round Table Pizza, lousy pizza. Then again every chain pizza place has lousy pizza."

Not fair, you live in Chicago and I'm stuck in OK where all we have (for the most part) is franchises of faux pizza. I, for one, love Chicago pizza--in Chicago.

Snake, Don't forget that there used to be another excellent company with Chicago roots that is, alas, a mere remnant of what it was from the 30s through 60s--Schwinn. Don't know who owns them now, but it's at least the third owner in the last 15 years. Even more unfortunate is that they've partnered with Walmart. Who's assembling, or more importantly repairing Schwinns now? For kids growing up in the 60s Schwinn was synonymous with quality--like Cadillac and Mercedes before the 70s or at least the 80s.

You do know that Meijers is a MI export from Grand Rapids and that were once known Meijer "thrifty acres". They have been around much of MI since at least the early 70s from what I recall--probably earlier on the western (bible belt) part of the state.

Gogiboy

houdini1

Beautiful car there D. The 5 series has always been my favorite BMW. I think you are really going to love that car...however...you need some help on making the sales story more exciting. You need to tell a few fibs, describe how the SM got red in the face when you zinged him, etc., etc.

Maybe we are not finished with this story. I can't wait for dealer A to call you and say they are prepared to knock off another 100 bucks !

Just kidding. When you have done as much homework as you did, the sales story should be boring. "I walked in, gave them a check, and drove away in my new car". Finis.

Congratulations and thanks for sharing.

houdini1

On the other hand, the way the Fed keeps devaluing the dollar, the ones who owe a lot of money may be better off. That is how the U.S. plans on repaying our national debt. Cheaper dollars, or maybe worthless dollars.

houdini1

Let me add my best wishes to those in the path of this storm. Just stay inside and be patient. It is not the wind that hurts you, it is all that stuff being blown around by the wind. That is why I always cringe when I see a reporter standing out in the open in high winds.

Hopefully the storm is way over hyped but you can never be sure. All you guys in the path are smart and level headed so you will all be fine. Looks like it might be weakening.

snakeweasel

Not fair, you live in Chicago and I'm stuck in OK

You can always move. :shades:

You do know that Meijers is a MI export from Grand Rapids and that were once known Meijer "thrifty acres".

Yeah, I know that. They were founded in the 30's though. I do like their store, much better than the alternatives. But thats my personal preference.

Did you know that when they built their first large superstores they made the floor heavy duty so that if the concept failed it could be turned into a car dealership? Hows that for getting back to car sales?

fezo

Glad someone is concerned about us in the path. My daughter is suggesting I should go check myself into a hospital before the worst hits overnight.

Can't go much of anywhere as the main roads are closed.

I could really use a box of donuts about now....

sterlingdog

"And you don't want to know what some of that 'imported' leather is."

That is certainly true in some cases. Back when I did some male modeling, I had some experiences with leather shoes and jackets. My boss would say, "Wear the shoes on the runway, but don't tell them that they're not alligator." I also knew that some of those "Australian" leather jackets had been made from old cows in Montana. Still, there are some reputable leather companies.

My wife has some of those Dooney Bourke and Gucci handbags, but she didn't pay the usual $300-$800 for them. I get them for her on the streets of New York. Some are fakes and some are seconds. Her friends don't know the difference. A "second" may have a small flaw in the lining or the strap may be missing one or two stitches. Some of the fakes are really good. I got her a Gucci handbag in Key West last December for $40. I had trouble finding the flaw. We finally walked down the street to the real Gucci store. They had the exact same handbag for $500. I finally found the flaw. The fake one was missing the inside pocket that holds ink pens. Some big deal. My niece, who studied fashion design in Italy, couldn't see the flaw either until I showed her. As for the streets of New York, some of the bags are probably stolen. I don't ask; I don't care; and I don't want to know. :shades:

Richard

sterlingdog

I'm sorry that I got tied up with Andres and didn't respond to my young friend. I see that you made up my quote FOR me. You did a great job. That is exactly what I would have told you.

Richard

mac24

there posts an official (retired) weatherman who says that this may be the most over-hyped (pardon the redundancy) storm in history.

I couldn't agree more, although it's not surprising since there hasn't been a single hurricane hit the US mainland since Ike in'08, yet every year they predict a worse hurricane season than the historical average.

The talking heads at the news desks can hardly contain their excitement as they turn and nod to each other with concerned expressions on their faces as they pontificate on how bad things might get.

Sorry for the cynicism but I'm old enough to remember when the news was a reporting of the facts, and discussion, conjecture, and opinion was left to a different program completely.

sterlingdog

Well, we survived our battle with Irene---not much of a battle to tell you the truth. We had gusty winds and some rain. In fact, had I not known that there was a hurricane out there, I would have thought that it was just a usual summer storm. Still, you never know. It's better to be safe than sorry. Monday, I'll have to undo the preparations and get back to normal. Those nearer the coast have more to worry about with the water rising than they did with the winds.

I hope all of you in the New Jersey and New York area have it as easy as we did. I do wish that the media would lay off the hype. Though I'm sure that they want to err on the side of safety, I feel that they are making a lot more of what happened here than the reality of it. We're blessed and I'm grateful for it.

Fezo: Eat your heart out. I had two warm donuts for breakfast with fresh peaches, cream cheese and whipped cream. I still have some cream filled and fruit filled donuts. The Krispy Kream Donut Company is based 60 miles from here. We get them really fresh in our local market.

Richard

sterlingdog

"...I'm old enough to remember when the news was a reporting of the facts..."

AMEN!!!

Richard

roadburner

Today's news outlets have one overriding journalistic philosophy:

"Never let the facts get in the way of a good story."

snakeweasel

The Krispy Kream Donut Company is based 60 miles from here. We get them really fresh in our local market.

Krispy Kreme is still around? I thought they joined Nash (Ha! car reference, so there) in extiention. Every one by me closed their doors years ago.

mac24

Today's news outlets have one overriding journalistic philosophy:
"Never let the facts get in the way of a good story."

Once upon a time, long, long ago, before the dumbing down of a large part of the American public, people would read newspapers, listen to the radio, watch TV, because they wanted to know what was happening in their country and the outside world.
They were interested because it related directly to their lives and their futures.
They cared about world affairs, both financial and political, and they expected factual reporting so that they could decide what to make of it, as they had the common sense and intelligence to do so.
Nowadays that's not the case; intelligence and common sense doesn't prevail.
Reality TV is more popular than reality itself! :sick:

For example, the reporting of the current weather situation is structured as an entertainment for the majority of the population that isn't directly involved, which keeps the viewing figures high, which in turn maintains advertising income, without which there would be no news reporting at all (at least on TV).

Just my opinion of course.

mako1a

I'm here and I'm tired. Exhausted is a better word. 3,000 Vettes.

Turns out a lot of people from NJ trying to escape the storm came

here. It was even on the news. I didn't buy one, nor was I tempted.

Matter of fact I don't care if I never see another one. I'm officially

Corvetted out!

I did, however see where you guys get all the fancy cars. Went out

to dinner after the show and saw Audi, Porsche, BMW, Honda, Acura and

many others on display at super store dealerships all across from one

another. We don't have anything remotely like that in Wytheville, Va.

They took up an entire mile of highway and it was like a maze getting

around in there. They didn't even have anything like that in Va Bch

when I lived there 8 years ago. No Chevy or Ford, just $$$ cars.

I did like the BMW X3, but they only had a few of them. 2011s have

the fancy touch shifter I like. 5 series didn't get that until 08 except

X5 in 07. Saw a 335i that sat lower than the rest of them. Interesting.