Stories from the Sales Frontlines

oldfarmer50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOwSPccbzl4

Not what I would have expected.

bolivar

Walmart story:

I found a flat tire on my car in my garage on a Friday night. Having a bad feeling, I still took it to Walmart on Saturday for repair. Jacked up car and carried it in, hoping to give them as little as possible to mess up. When I picked up the tire, they probably had not pulled the weight off the front of the wheel (or dropped the weight under the bar). I think the changer then popped the weight off, which got hung under the bar and put a nice scratch almost all the way around the wheel. The guy that did the work denied causing it. I went back on Monday and showed it to the manager, who quickly agreed they did it. WallyWorld paid me full list price, I think it was about $375, for a 2002 Honda Accord mag wheel.

They are not to be trusted with the simplest of work.

But then just a couple of months ago, I took the wife's Cadillac to the local 'tire store', which does a huge business, with about a dozen or more people working there, to fix a leaky tire. When I got back into the car, I checked the tire pressures on the DIC. A Caddy will instantly give you the current pressures. (Some cars have to be driven a ways.) All four tires were above 40psi, one was 44. Exactly what was going thru the squirrel's mine when he did this? Maybe thought he would just give a nice boost of air to the other 3 wheels, without using a guage? Why?

imidazol97

Take a quick look on the tire sidewall for the maximum pressure listing. That's meant only for the highest load cases in the event of very heavy vehicles. A few people believe that means that is what you should pump up the tires to in order to achieve minimum rolling resistance and the best gas mileage.

Some people don't understand the meaning of "maximum."

driver100

He's got the easiest job in the world. All he does is count his money all day

Few people know what a person goes through to establish a business. Usually 60 to 80 hours a week to get it going, risking everything you own to finance it, big risk - a small percentage of new businesses survive.

Then when it is established you have government, the responsibility of the people who work for you, and lots of things that are out of your control...such as the economy, competition, government regulation.

Being self employed is one of the most rewarding things you can do...when it works.

If those customers think it is so easy why don't they try opening up a shop?

oldfarmer50

"...the manager, who quickly agreed they did it..."

At least Wal-Mart fessed up and made good unlike when Midas muffler forgot to tighten my lug nuts and sent me wobbling out into a busy highway in the dark like a clown car at the circus. :mad:

mako1a

farmer, amazing video. Not what I expected at all.

I figured M3 no contest, but Mustang held on nicely.

Pro driver's comments were spot on for buyers (mods).

sterlingdog

I never realized that you were a Cadillac owner, or I had forgotten that fact. How do you like it?

Richard

driver100

Not what I would have expected.

Thanks OF, that was fascinating and fun to watch.

jmonroe

Picking peaches IS easier than cukes. Still, the peach fuzz added to the sweat will drive you crazy with the itching.

I meant to ask you this before but I forgot. Since you’re an old ‘peach picker’ you should know this…who was the first to discover fuzz on peaches? You don’t have to answer that but you could tell me that you know who it was.

It doesn't take much wind to bring down a pine tree.

I know what you mean about that. Even the very tall ones come down pretty easily. I saw that in action when they were clearing the lot for our house when we moved to SC in ’92. The big dozer that was used by the guy clearing the lot just had to push the pine trees a little and they would go down. The Oak trees were much more difficult. The part of this that I didn’t like is that the best looking trees were where the house was going to be. Only 3 of the of the Oak’s stayed out front but many of the pine trees were still standing in the back.

It’s interesting that we got on this subject because my lot was the last one that this guy was going to do for our builder because that is when Andrew hit Florida in August of ’92 and since this guy had one of those dozers with the front blade that could open to grab onto a tree to load it onto a truck, he told our builder that he could make a ton of money in South Florida with that thing doing cleanup work. So the day after our lot was cleared he headed to South Florida. I remember our builder telling me later that guy and his crew of three were down there for almost 4 months doing cleanup work. What a mess that had to be down there!

Needless to say, I hope you and no one around you will need one of those dooflickies.

jmonroe

jmonroe

All four tires were above 40psi, one was 44. Exactly what was going thru the squirrel's mine when he did this? Maybe thought he would just give a nice boost of air to the other 3 wheels, without using a guage? Why?

And that same guy or someone just like him is the one that put the wheel back on the car. I’m going to repeat myself again here. This is why I don’t pull out of a lot after service work that involved pulling the wheels (here in PA that includes an annual safety inspection) without first checking to see if the lug nuts (all 20) were put back on properly. Wanna guess how many times they weren’t? I can’t possibly be the only one that has this problem. Since I’m the one that will suffer the consequences, I check them.

I’ve told my sons that if they EVER come over to my house wanting help that involved pulling a wheel for whatever has to be done and I can’t get the wheel off, I wasn’t going to help them with that work, just turn around and go back home. So far it’s never happened, so I guess I’ve gotten my point across to them.

It’s amazing how they can screw up even the most simple jobs. It has everything to do about not caring.

jmonroe

jmonroe

At least Wal-Mart fessed up and made good unlike when Midas muffler forgot to tighten my lug nuts and sent me wobbling out into a busy highway in the dark like a clown car at the circus.

I saw this after my post 72078.

More re-enforcement. I'm starting to sound like a prophet.

Glad you're still here to report it.

jmonroe

sterlingdog

I may as well jump in here and give my two cents on the labor charge issue for mechanics. Being technically challenged, I have always used dealerships or Indy people to take care of my cars---usually dealerships. Currently, the labor charge for an oil change and lube on the Caddy is $20; the Chrysler is $12.80. I went back and checked records for both. Looking back, I found a couple of records where labor charges on the old Explorer were between $75 and $90 per hour. I never complained and all of my repairs seemed fine. My only complaint is when they try to up grade me on a repair that doesn't need to be fixed. I discovered that being the case last year with our Chrysler dealer that had merged with a large store chain. That's when I got mad and told them so. I don't mind paying for service, but don't rip me off, especially after I've been a loyal customer. I noticed that the last time I was in the Chrysler dealership, I got civil but cool treatment from the service department. I'm willing to live with that as long as they do the work in a quality manner. The old home town dealership was so diffetrent---friendly, efficient, and customer oriented. This new service department has a screaming manager who runs around on Prozac shouting orders to the tech guys and trying to out talk the customers' problems. He gets on my last nerve. I may just get the Cadillac place to service the Chrysler.

When I retired and became a consultant, I charged from $100 to $300 per hour depending on the client and the amount of work involved. I provided the materials, paid for my gas and motel, spent hours on preparations, and held a damn good workshop. I had one corporate client to complain about the fee of $300 per hour. He wanted 200 employees trained in a six hour period with an hour lunch break. I told him that if he wanted a quality job, he could hire me. If he wanted something less, that was fine with me. He paid. My point is this: We all have certain talents. I can't work on cars, but I'm willing to pay a good mechanic to do it.

"Car repair like most other skills is not intuitive but it can be learned if you want to learn it."

I have to disagree with you on this one. As you may remember, my father spent a lot of time during my early years trying to teach me about car engines and repairs. Though I tried to listen and learn, I just couldn't get the hang of it. Then again, he wasn't a man who was long on patience. I could wash, wax, and detail a car to the finest degree---beyond new. As far as under the hood was concerned, it was a lost cause. Remember the computer experience? It's always the same with machines for me. I did install all of the batteries for the flashlights and radios yesterday in preparation for the storm. They actually worked.

Richard

michaellno

As the great fictional detective Harry Callahan once said, "A man's got to know his limitations".

You certainly know yours. Kudos for the admission in such a public forum.

I, too, am missing the same gene. My father was great at building furniture - he did it when he was with the Seabees in the 50's and he continues to work with wood to this day.

No matter how often he tried to get me to understand the appeal, I just couldn't pick it up. All the measuring, cutting and assembling was just too much for me (for the record, I never built plastic models as a kid for the same reason).

I'm pretty sure I've told this story before, but it illustrates my incompetency when it comes to basic car maintenance. A buddy of mine and I decided to change the oil on my mom's '73 Toyota Corona. Unfortunately, instead of draining out the oil, I drained the automatic transmission fluid, then added 4 quarts of oil to an engine that was already full of it.

Oops!

I guess you could consider it lucky that I totaled the car not many months later in an accident that wasn't my fault, rather than have the engine or transmission fail.

oldfarmer50

"...it illustrates my basic incompetency..."

Ha ha that's sounds like a story we all could tell. I put auto tranny fluid into the brake reservoir when I was 16 and all the seals had to be replaced.

Sometimes when you do a familiar job that you haven't done for a long time you screw it up too. I changed the oil on my son's car last year and forgot to check to see if the old gasket had come off with the filter. Result: blown engine.

Today I finished installing an exterior door unit out of the garage. Since I did most of the work building this house 30 years ago I had a lot of experience installing doors, or so I thought. Turns out I had forgotten a lot of the little tricks every builder learns. I also found out that these sneaky manufacturers have slightly changed everything over the decades, so not only did the new door not fit the rough opening but none of the hardware from the old door fit either.

With all the running back and forth to the store a 15 minute job took all day. :mad:

oldfarmer50

"...Pro driver's comments were spot on for buyers..."

Speaking of pros I'd like to hear what a BMW racer like roadburner thinks about that video. I actually liked the looks of the M3 better but not $25,000 better.

tjc78

have to disagree with you on this one. As you may remember, my father spent a lot of time during my early years trying to teach me about car engines and repairs. Though I tried to listen and learn, I just couldn't get the hang of it

Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. I can tackle most home improvements, mild plumbing, electrical etc. When it comes to cars, I can perform basic maintenance and know a lot about how things work, but I don't have the time, tools, or garage to do it in, so I am forced to pay mechanics as well. Having a good independent is extremely important especially if you have older cars.

sterlingdog

It's nice to know that I'm not alone in the world---misery loves company. I knew early on that I would have to be honest on this forum. There are too many guys here who could see through my abilities in a minute. It's a strange thing to me. Though I know nothing about working on a car, I have always loved cars. Perhaps some of my father's efforts did rub off on me. He took me to car shows and car lots on a regular basis. He should have been a car salesman. He was passionate about cars and could talk about them all day. He was forever trading cars---usually Buicks and Fords, but especially Buicks.

I had to laugh when you mentioned that you didn't do plastic models as a child. I did one model---a B52 Bomber. I ran into the kitchen to show it to Dad. He looked at it and asked me, "Why do you have the wings upside down?" :sick:

Richard

sterlingdog

I would also like to hear Driver's comments---a Ford equal to a BMW? He'll be sick for a week.

Richard

isellhondas

Oh yes, building models!

So they even sell these anymore? I haven't seen them in years.

We would build thme, get tired of them after awhile and then we would blow them up with firecrackers.

I think I may still have a piece of plastic in my chin somewhere.

fezo

Now we are going to pay tuition for the great nephew while I end up in the poor house..... Sigh. I thought that rich nephew of yours had it in him.

I may well be deciding that the mortgage and my daughter's tuition may be incompatible for a while. She'll make it through this semester anyway.

tjc78

So they even sell these anymore? I haven't seen them in years.

Certainly do. If you are ever in a Art/Crafts store (Michaels, Hobby Lobby, ACMoore) they would probably have a 4' or 5' department, w/ Testor's model paint.

driver100

I would also like to hear Driver's comments---a Ford equal to a BMW? He'll be sick for a week.

They didn't say it was equal. It was a fraction of a second slower, and it didn't have the same level of "the feel of the road".

The Mustang is definitely a bargain at $25000 less, but it didn't win. And if you want to consider the finer points, such as overall design, interior design, color (that's a big one), well, there is no contest.

BUt, I was surprised the Mustang did as well as it did. But, guess which one I would want?

oldfarmer50

"...blow them up with firecrackers..."

LOL Now that's a real boy for you. :shades:

We used to hang our unwanted model planes from a wire and light them on fire. We would then hit them with "flack" from our BB guns. You had to shoot fast because those old plastic models had an equal weight of flammable glue holding them together. :surprise:

Kirstie_H

A reporter seeks to interview women who are their family's car buyer and men who gave up the role to a female partner. Please respond to pr@edmunds.com no later than Friday, September 2, 2011 with your daytime contact information to be interviewed.

oldfarmer50

http://www.waterpreserve.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/flood-cars-SP071.jpg

Do any of you sales guys know how to spot a flood damaged car? I imagine there will be a ton of them going on the market next week. When an insurance company totals out a flood car do they just send it to auction? :lemon:

sterlingdog

"I thought that rich nephew of yours had it in him."

He could pay the tuition himself if he didn't have the mortgage on the mega mansion, the Denali, the Lexus, the boat, and his wife's $2k a month clothng habit. My sister and I are doing this for the boys so that they will get a decent education. I was careful to write my check to the school. I want to make sure that the money goes for what it is intended. I'm also on the list to receive progress reports every six weeks. Any slack and I don't pay for second semester. One boy is very bright; the other one plays around too much. We'll see.

Don't worry if your daughter has to take a year off from school. I did that, and it didn't bother me a bit when I went back. She could even take a couple of on-line courses during the year. Also, she might pick up a course or two that she needs at the local community college. She might be able to pay for that with a part time job. Where there is a will, there is a way. Remember: Concentrate on what you've got to do to get well.

Richard

oldfarmer50

"...men who gave up the role to a female partner..."

The only men who have total say in car buying are either divorced or never married. :sick:

sterlingdog

"It was a fraction of a second slower..."

So we are going to split hairs on this?

"But, guess which one I would want?"

Great. You'll love the new mustangs. :P

Richard

sterlingdog

AMEN!!!

Richard

qbrozen

actually, on both of our last car purchases, the other person didn't have a say. We realized that neither of us are satisfied with the car when we compromise.

So the GTI was completely my choice and her Chrysler was completely hers. I even let her go to the dealership and negotiate and purchase it all by herself. I got tired of hearing "you convinced me I should get this and I don't like it" every couple of years.

oldfarmer50

"...for the great nephew while I end up in the poor house..."

Fezo, get on one of those ancestry web sites. They say everybody is related if you go back far enough. Maybe your and richard64's relatives shared a fig leaf in the Garden of Eden.

Then you can hit him up for a "poor relation" loan.

It's either that or we wait for his next vacation and go for the mattress he stuffs with 100 dollar bills. :shades:

oldfarmer50

"...I got tired of hearing "you convinced me I should get this"..."

And you think letting her do it all by herself will get you off the hook? LOL!

My wife is truly my better half when it come to buying cars. She keeps me grounded when the "fever" starts to take hold. Otherwise I would have the entire farm filled with various interesting junkers instead of just the driveway.

andres3

What if they're doing a job that requires more than one tech at a time? Then, factor in all of the tools (that can't be purchased at Home Depot) and the heavy-duty equipment that has to be purchased, maintained, and upgraded?

I'm sure that if it requires more than one tech, such as a job that takes two tech's 4 hours, the customer will be charged for 8 hours!

Shop supplies, tools ect often finds itself in a "shop supplies" fee, though I think they are not supposed to do that in CA.

Parts are marked up too, it's not like your getting wholesale on the parts.

The building, heavy duty equipment, and other tools will cost the shop money whether I give them work or not; they will still get those bills. That is why they have lots of customers, not just one.

I do think bills should include:
1) parts (at their cost)
2) labor (at mechanic's true pay rate)
3) Shop maintenance fee (for using the equipment, tools)
4) 10% profit?
5) 10% overhead?

But for some reason all the profit is buried into an astronomical labor rate.

Kirstie_H

I buy *my* car, but then again, I pay for it too. My role is the same as your wife's, farmer. Every few months, my SO starts talking about upgrading the '98 Chevy pickup. It sees about 4-5K miles per year, used only for towing boat or trailer, and supplies for lawn or home improvement projects.

So far, I've been able to talk him down off the ledge every time. It started up again about 2 weeks ago, and we talked about the reasons for upgrading til he basically admitted his only justification was that he wanted a shinier, newer big toy, and that it was better to keep the '98 til we either don't need it anymore, it starts having major problems, or we can afford to get something WAY better.

Kirstie_H

I'd love to refute various claims in your post, and tell you why your billing outline is absurd, but unfortunately I've got a wall that's just begging me to bang my head against it, and at this point it seems a better use of my time.

oldfarmer50

"...all the profit is buried into an astronomical labor rate.,,"

Brother, I feel your pain but you remind me of a customer who once complained about the price of my tomatoes. He said: "The tomatoes grow themselves all you have to do is walk over and pick them. I don't understand why they're so expensive." :confuse:

We all pay what the guy in line behind us is willing to pay.

oldfarmer50

"...I've got a wall..."

OH! You are sooooo mean! :surprise:

driver100

about the reasons for upgrading til he basically admitted his only justification was that he wanted a shinier, newer big toy, a

Well, at least we would get a good sales story out of it too

oldfarmer50

"...My role is the same as your wife's..."

Which of you has better knowledge of cars? Unfortunalely I'm the only one in my family who researches cars or keeps current on even basic trends. You must be one heck of an asset for a guy with the "fever".

Kirstie_H

Well, I've been a business owner. I'm only going to spend so much time explaining what has been missed (e.g, vacation, benefits costs) or way underestimated in the calculations of someone who hasn't, but knows anyway.

Car shoppers already flip out over advertising fees, destination fees, and doc fees, but they're going to be OK with itemized charges for overhead & profit? Yeah....

driver100

"The tomatoes grow themselves all you have to do is walk over and pick them. I don't understand why they're so expensive."

I love that story as an explanation. If Andre thinks the cost for labor are so high and mechanics are making a fortune he should become one.

Then he can open up a garage, $500,000, hire mechanics and office staff, pay for new machines, pay taxes on any profit he might make, and then hope a big conglomerate garage doesn't open up across the street.

Just like OF said, it sounds easy....where do we get someone to loan us the $500,000?

Kirstie_H

Obviously, when it comes to purchasing, I'm more abreast of what's good that's on the market, what's seeing good vs bad reports from owners, and what people are getting decent prices on. When it comes to the insides, well... I believe they are covered up and hard to get to for GOOD reasons. I'm useless. In fact, my "low coolant" light came on last night, and I just drove the old truck down to the store instead of my car, and of course I didn't risk buying, much less installing, coolant on my own.

He's the spender, and I'm the saver. It's a good balance because if it were up to him - like you - we would have a lot more (depreciating) toys and a lot less money, and if it were up to me, we'd have more money in the bank, but no fun. I can be downright cheap... jmonroe cheap.

isellhondas

My, aren't you generous!

I assume you aren't serious or you are trying to get a rise out of some of us?

A shop shouldn't make a profit on the parts they sell???

I can tell you've never owned your own business because it would quickly fail.

As it stands today, therre is a severe shortage of technicians/mechanics. The "old timers" do their best to talk the kids out of going into the field.

Under your wonderful plan, NOBODY would be foolish enough to become a mechanic much less open a shop!

Amazing!

Kirstie_H

"The tomatoes grow themselves all you have to do is walk over and pick them. I don't understand why they're so expensive."

I am glad I am not a farmer for a living. First, I have a moderately brown thumb. Second, I have about 6 tomato plants this year, and between having planted some too close, wind storms, trying to keep them staked and upright, killing caterpillars and other bugs, I only WISH that picking them was the hardest part.

My SO's mom (Italian) did come up last week and spend all afternoon with me making a load of tasty marinara sauce, though. Worth it.

oldfarmer50

"...jmonroe cheap..."

Nobody's THAT cheap!

oldfarmer50

"...A shop shouldn't make a profit on the parts..."

My indie garage that I have been doing business with since I was 16 and was used by my father before me has a sign up on the wall. It says:

YOU WOULDN"T BRING YOU OWN EGGS AND BACON TO A DINER. WHY BRING YOUR PARTS HERE?

If the shop charges me the same price on parts that I could buy them for at another store, I don't care how much profit they make on them.

My only gripe is when they add a couple of bucks for "shop fee". I told my guy to just charge me more for the other work or else I would start bringing soap and rags in myself. The owner couldn't stop laughing but the charge went away.

explorerx4

'Fez, have your daughter go to the Financial Aid at her school and explain your family situation.
They are there to help out their students.

andres3

I already know the answer.

The answer is by keeping things secret, convoluted, confusing, and lumped together, you can super overcharge people without them knowing any better.

I'm for transparency, against shadowy hidden fees. In construction all the cards are laid out on the table. It seems only with auto repair mechanics, and real estate agents do you still have a lack of transparency.

Somehow, despite the internet, the shadowy world of buying and selling a home is still kept locked inside a convoluted box. Tires used to be sold that way, until Tirerack.com came along. Now all you have to do is look on a website to see that the local tire dealer giving "buy 3 get 1 free" deals simply just marked up the 3 tires an extra 33% each to cover his shady sale deal. You get grocery stores selling "buy 2, get 2 free" when everyone knows a 12 pack of Pepsi shouldn't be $6.00, but $3.00. Where's the deal in that? Vons thinks it's okay to do that.

In some ways Edmunds and Consumer Reports did to car buying what Tirerack has done to tire buying. Now we just need a resource that lists the true OEM price of every car part ever made, and then the price of some aftermarket "equivalents" too.

As far as repair manhours are concerned, who wrote the amount of hours every repair should take, mechanics? Is it based on someone being good, average, or slow?

explorerx4

The Mustang tied the 0-60 test, won the quarter mile test (time and speed), braking test, skid pad test and figure 8 test.
The M3 won all the other tests.
Next up, Boss 302.

oldfarmer50

"...I'm for tranparency..."

You make a good point. I have to admit I see these things from 2 sides. As a small businessman I know that I have to charge more than Wal-Mart to make a living. I try to make up for it with better service and knowledge. I hope that the "intangibles" are worth the extra cost.

I'm also a wage slave in my other job and with a finite ammount of money to spend I'm always looking for the bottom price.

One thing is certain. When the last high priced Indie shop goes under that is the day that the chain outlets will jack up their prices and offer only "drop dead" service.