Stories from the Sales Frontlines

driver100

Sooner signing means sooner payday. It also loosely locks you in with them. Look at the big picture.

That's a big problem in negotiating a car. You don't know what is really going on. They tell you the 8 cylinder 550 BMW is the best driving experience. What will they say when you go to trade it in.........no one wants an 8 cylinder these days. Mine is a hardtop convertible, so they say it will be worth less in the winter...Oct and Nov. I bought mine in October and I couldn't use it until the Spring. Besides, it is a HARDTOP convertible....meaning it is just like a hardtop...except the roof will go down.

I want the same amount for it in November as what it is worth now or no deal, so they can play their games about making me pull the trigger.

sterlingdog

Your explanations for "tall cotton" were correct. We often say "high cotton" here. I never worked in cotton, but I did work in peaches. We had a choice of the day shift---picking peaches, or the night shift---washing and loading peaches onto the big trucks. Either way, the peach fuzz would stick to your arms and face---itched like hell. In the fields, we had the same toilet problems. You just went when you had to go. I earned 50 cents an hour. You were paid cash each Saturday evening for the week. It came in a little brown envelope with your hours listed on the front. My father gave me three choices for summer jobs---tobacco, cucumbers, or peaches. Cucumbers were the worst. You sat on a little sled right on the ground and rolled yourself along. The job would kill your back and neck. Tobacco was about as bad. Picking or stringing tobacco was a killer. I always chose the peach fields. My dad was smart to require this of me. I knew right away that I was going to college! Funny thing is, I still love to eat fresh peaches.

Richard

driver100

Still, Isell will need the special BMW air pump. They are pretty pricey

But, he will have the "feel of the pump".

Whatever that means and don't give me any of those crazy student days explanations. :P

driver100

In the fields, we had the same toilet problems. You just went when you had to go

Oh, geez, now I have to drop peaches, and cucumbers from my diet..

sterlingdog

"I wrote to the rookie salesman..."

That was such a nice thing for you to do. Though I don't always agree with you, and love to irritate you, I do admire your qualities as a gentleman. You always try to do the right thing.

Richard

sterlingdog

"You just went when you had to go."

At least it gave me the "feel of the ground". :P

Richard

driver100

At least it gave me the "feel of the ground".
ROFLMAO!

I appreciate your comments about the note to the rookie sales guy. I have been in similar situations many times, and it is nice to know you haven't done anything wrong. I also wanted him to have something in writing in case management hears about the incident from Mr Closer.

I really hope he doesn't get chewed out by the Closer or even blamed for losing a potential sale. It will be interesting to see if they write or call back.

nyccarguy

It seems like Canada is a tight market BMW-wise to begin with. The similarly equipped cars cost more money than here in the US & supply is tighter.

The best part about being in your position is that YOU DON'T NEED A CAR. You don't have an expiring lease. I'm certain your 4 year old 328i Cabriolet doesn't backfire like UNCLE BUCK'S. Take a step back, chill out for a sec, & realize YOU my friend are in the driver's seat (no pun intended).

It seems that you are at your wit's end with the way Dealer A (BMW of Vancouver) does business. Don't get mad. WALK AWAY. Present your offer to Dealer B (BMW of Ottawa) & go from there.

mac24

Most mechanics are untrustworthy however, so it's good to specify OEM.

'Some' certainly, but 'most'? That defies common sense.

isellhondas

"Most mechanics are untrustworthy"

What a slap in the face to the 99% that work hard for not a lot of money!

And, how would specificing OEM parts make any difference?

andres3

How can they not make alot of money when they all charge $100+/hour in CA?

Untrustworthy might be a bit harsh to say MOST, but lazy or cut corners?

Kirstie_H

Are you insinuating that the $100/hour is mostly profit? What if they're doing a job that requires more than one tech at a time? Then, factor in all of the tools (that can't be purchased at Home Depot) and the heavy-duty equipment that has to be purchased, maintained, and upgraded?

robr2

How can they not make alot of money when they all charge $100+/hour in CA?

Do you think the building, tools, training, inventory, computers et al are free??

isellhondas

I had a lengthy reply to your post but I decided not to post it.

Your post only shows that you know nothing about how these guys get paid!

isellhondas

Oh, yeah, it's all gravy.

They buy their tools at Sears and cut corners as they find ways to rip off their customers.

After a long career in the tool business I can tell you that they DO NOT buy second rate tools. They spend 40,000 dollars and more and as technology changes they spend more and more.

People that know nothing about the work these guys do shouldn't post.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

And they should work on their own cars so they don't get cheated!

driver100

It seems like Canada is a tight market BMW-wise to begin with.

NYC, There's only 2 dealers in Toronto, population almost 4 million. Yes, they keep the dealers sparse so there isn't too much haggling. Seems you need a population of about 500,000 to support one dealer.

The Cabriolet has less than 40k miles on it and it runs like a new car, and I still love the car, so you are right, no big rush. It would be nice to have the larger car for our drive to Florida in January, but even then we can take my wife's 4 door 335.

There were times in my life I had to have the new car because my car was on it's last legs or always needed a repair. This is very different, so I have made my proposal, it's a bit tight I am sure, but if it works it works....if not, I get to keep the convertible longer...not a problem.

Oh yes, Vancouver is about 3000 miles west and Ottawa about 400 miles North East, so those aren't the dealers I am dealing with.

Kirstie_H

Failing to understand and carefully calculate your own operating costs relative to what you charge is a major reason why businesses go under. One also has to take into account what the market will bear; thus, there are not a lot of businesses out there just raking in the money due to high profit margins.

I know very few mechanics who are living high on the hog. I know one who lives quite comfortably, but he should - he owns the shop, works there as mechanic 6 days a week, and does great work. Even as an independent shop in the midwest, he charges $87/hour. Fine by me - I know it'll be fixed right.

If you look at $100/hour it seems excessive until you take into account the costs. Our fuel pump replacement took 2 guys, so that cuts the rate to $50/hour, per mechanic. Take out overhead & taxes, and it's a whole lot less left over to pay even a totally QUALIFIED mechanic's wages.

jmonroe

I didn't step forward this year to offer you food because we were supposed to be at the beach ourselves. Remember?

I knew you would use that as an excuse. How come I knew that? :confuse:

Even if you go to Disney World next year, you can stop in Asheboro.

Don’t worry, you’re off the hook for next year because there ain’t no way that trip will be done by car. Mrs. jmonroe is already talking about giving away our 250K + frequent flyer miles to either or both sons because, using her words, “we ought to be able to help them because taking a family has got to cost a heck of a lot of money”. Oh yeah, way to go dear, give my points away so I get the pleasure of buying my tickets. :sick:

jmonroe

houdini1

I agree with all the "tall cotton" explanations except one, and you can take this from a bonafide cotton picker:

Normally you don't pick cotton in the hot sun. Cotton is picked in the relative cool (and sometimes cold) of the Fall. You chop cotton in the hot sun, in the Summer, with your water jug wrapped in newspaper and sitting in the shade of the treeline.

Chopping cotton was long, hard, hot work, and did not take much skill. It is where you walk down the rows with a hoe and chop the grass and weeds out of the cotton rows. People are usually paid by the hour or day.

Picking cotton is even harder work and does take a good deal of skill if you want to make any money at it. The reason being you are paid by the pound picked. When your sack is full it is weighed, tallied, and dumped into the cotton trailer. Then you head back to the field and start over.

I grew up in cotton and rice country in eastern Arkansas. These memories are from the early 1950's when I was 7 or 8 years old, and in truth, I spent most of my time playing around in the cotton trailer and having fun !!

One other thing. The greatest insult you could give someone was to say that he was the type of guy that would pull up a young cotton stalk and Sh$t in the hole.

mac24

How can they not make alot of money when they all charge $100+/hour in CA?

So assume that you have a shop on which you have utility and ongoing costs such as electric, water, gas, phone, internet, property tax, insurance of many kinds, possibly a mortgage or rent and a business loan; plus the wages of an all purpose gopher/assistant/receptionist, and the cost of advertizing, maintenance and general upkeep, tools and workshop equipment, a stock of spares and consumables, subscriptions to AllData or a similar service for access to technical data, etc., etc.

Assuming all that, plus the additional costs I've forgotton or don't know about, how much would you charge an hour to give yourself a reasonable standard of living plus enough profit to keep the business running and growing?

isellhondas

The guys who work on cars typically get paid a percentage of the labor rate.

If the shop charges 100.00/hr the guy doing the work might get 30.00 if he is lucky. On slow days it's not uncommon for a mechanic to "flag" three or four hours. If a job calls for 5 hours and it's nasty work that takes the mechanic 7 hours he still get's paid for 5.

If, on the other hand, the guy is skilled enough toe do the job in 4 hours, he still get's paid for 5.

The "gravy" jobs are few and far between.

In addition as things change, new tools must be purchased. The shops do not provide tools except (in most cases) heavy shop equipment.

And, it's hard physical work that takes a toll on the body.

Yes, they can make a living but not a very good one in a lot of cases.

I know a guy who is close to retiring at the age of 66. Still a heavy line mechanic in a dealership. He does his best to talk youg guys into doing something else.

Benefits are usually poor too with a lot of shops paying nothing toward health insurance much less a 401k.

So, tell me again how easy this is?

Kirstie_H

It is no different than looking at someone's personal income in a vacuum - you might think, you earn $X,000 per month... you are SO rich!

Of course that doesn't take into account any outgoing obligations that the observer isn't able to calculate, such as property rent/mortgage (adjusted for area of living), taxes, insurance, medical expenses, etc. It is easy to criticize income when you're not aware of what amount constitutes outgoing expenses. I admit I've been guilty of it myself - I remember in the early 90's looking at my boss's pay (even though I loved him and didn't begrudge him his income) and thinking, "wow, if I EVER made that amount I would be so flush with money..."

Of course I couldn't see his student loans, house payment, costs for his special-needs child, maintenance expenses on his car that had to be driven for business a lot, or anything else.

fezo

Finally I have clearance to go away next week. Now must fine a place to go to.

The permanent disability paperwork starts up in the next day or so. There's going to be a year where keeping the mortgage paid and all will be a challenge. We'll manage somehow.

Anyone have a nice oceanfront place that's empty next week? I'm looking at things in NC. We'll see how it goes.

We are encouraging any and all to hit marrow.org and get yourself tested (older than 60 you are excused) and mention my name.

I think when the next payment on the van comes up I'm going to pay it off and sell it just before going into the hospital. One less expense. Once I'm out and can drive again I'll worry about what I do.

mac24

Kirstie and Craig, you get it, I get it, but to andres3 that's way too much to have a skilled tech work on your car.

However, I'd guess that most of the regulars here will understand the economics of it all.

driver100

Anyone have a nice oceanfront place that's empty next week? I'm looking at things in NC. We'll see how it goes.

You could probably drive to the ocean most days if you stay at Richard's, he'll probably give you excellent rates, and I hear he makes a really good breakfast, not to mention other meals.

He might loan you a nice convertible to drive around in.

Oh, I guess you mentioned NC in the hopes he would get the hint.

Hope you can get away for a nice vacation.

fezo

Worst case scenario I have a nice place five miles off the ocean in NJ. It's called my house....

We'll see.

Anyone want to pay my mortgage for a year? That would let me settle into this earlier than intended (and earlier than the feds will pay for) retirement?

jmonroe

Kirstie and Craig, you get it, I get it, but to andres3 that's way too much to have a skilled tech work on your car.

I think we all get it and we don't begrudge a "skilled tech" his due. What most of us don't appreciate is that those rates are being paid but we don't always get the quality of work that comes with the hourly rate. If we got quality work all the time there wouldn't be so much apprehension when our cars are taken to a shop.

Unfortunately I think there are more borderline techs than quality ones, yet we pay as if all of them do quality work all the time the first time.

jmonroe

mac24

What most of us don't appreciate is that those rates are being paid but we don't always get the quality of work that comes with the hourly rate.

Unfortunately there's little that can be done to allay those fears except check qualifications and get recommendations.
However, it's not just service techs that can give cause for such apprehension, the same equally applies to dentists, building contractors, lawers, doctors, etc., etc.

jwilliams2

That is the way I see it. No higher percentage than any other occupation.

mako1a

I had a Ford Explorer Limited in 1996. Cruise Control quit working.

Ford dealer I took it to said it was probably the vacuum module.

I said OK to about 100 bucks or so estimate. Upon pick-up, it was over

400 bucks and they replaced 3 items. Last of which fixed the

problem. It was a circuit board. Money taker lady said (no joke)

"we thought it was more important to fix it at any cost as you

said you use it a lot". Thanks for that. ps they returned all three

of the parts replaced (even the other two that were working fine).

explorerx4

pretty much all of eastern NC will be empty next week due to the storm that going to hit in a couple of days. :surprise:

jmonroe

That is the way I see it. No higher percentage than any other occupation.

I disagree. With the examples given (dentists, building contractors, lawers, doctors) I haven't had a problem with any of those with the same regularity as I have had, and heard of others having, with car repairs.

I've said this before, a long time ago...if I had gotten good service when I took my cars to mechanics, I wouldn't know today what I do about car rerpairs. I learned that I could screw it up myself for a lot less than they charged.

Car repair like most other skills is not intuitive but it can be learned if you want to learn it. I wanted to learn more than most of the mechanics I delt with. It's just that simple.

jmonroe

jmonroe

I said OK to about 100 bucks or so estimate. Upon pick-up, it was over

400 bucks and they replaced 3 items.

If I didn't know better I'd say you were trying to support my case (see post 72049).

jmonroe

mako1a

One missed point. There are mechanics

and there are parts replacers. The latter

having a value much less than the former.

explorerx4

Since you only authorized a $100 repair, you should have asked for the service manager and negotiated a lower price.
They probably noted this in their files, and figure you are not going to fight them.
When I went with my mom to buy her car, the salesperson brought up my dealership service records on his computer.

sterlingdog

"I knew you would use that as an excuse. How come I knew that?"

Because we think so much alike as you well know. :P

Quit complaining about giving those flyer miles to the boys. Those grand children have you wrapped around their little fingers. Mrs. J knows that. Besides, you have the first dollar that you ever made.

Richard

fezo

Yes indeed! Our game plan at the moment involves waiting until the thing blows past us and see what we can manage. They are evacuating Okracoke as we speak.

Actually I remember that Richard had a recommendation for a motel in Okracoke. We may well do that. Richard - what the heck was the name of that place? Harborside maybe? You wanna pay my mortgage for a year? Separate question....

nyccarguy

As you all know, I work for my family's 111 year old plumbing supply business. We've been in our current location since 1960. Our store is not well kept (Truth be told, it is a dump), but that's part of it's charm & part of the reason we're able to keep our prices competitive. People just automatically assume certain things because we are a small, family business. On a few occasions I've heard 2 guys talking about my Dad in Spanish (learned it in grades 7 - 12 & minored in it in college).

"Mira al dueño. Tiene el trabajo más facil en todo el mundo. Conta su chavo todo el día."
Look at the owner. He's got the easiest job in the world. All he does is count his money all day.

isellhondas

Often people try to "save" money by taking their cars to the "chain" stores and places like Wal Mart. You will usually (not always) find your rear eschelon mechanics working there.

If you stick to a trusted Indy shop or a dealership you might pay a bit more but you will probably end up much better off.

sterlingdog

You are absolutely correct about the picking of cotton. We do it here in the Fall. Machines do most of it now. My first teaching assignment was in a very rural school. Many of my students didn't start the school year because they were working in tobacco until after Labor Day. Once they came in, the other half left to pick the cotton. I finally got my class together after Christmas. Fall semester was a killer. I had to teach half the class what they had missed, and the other half had to keep going with new material. I actually kept two separate lesson plan books. Spring semester was about as bad. Bless their hearts (in a good way), they all managed to graduate together. I was so proud of them. I invaded their farm world with the likes of Shakespeare and Keats. In return, they listened well and took their notes. The farm families had taught them well---do what your teacher tells you and have nice manners. They did both. Times have surely changed.

Richard

sterlingdog

In all sincerity, if I had an empty ocean front cottage, you could have it for no rent. You deserve the vacation. Take it and enjoy it. Don't worry about the mortgage, car payment, etc. Things will work out fine. Concentrate on getting well and looking forward to happier days. It WILL happen. We're all supporting you here. Never forget that. You're my "funny" guy. Good things happen to those who make others laugh.

Richard

fezo

Thanks.

With the hurricane we will wait and see what we do. It will only be me, my wife and the 9 year olds. We've missed a couple of years due to the health situation and one summer just took the ferry to Delaware and stayed in a cheap hotel in Delaware and had a great time.

So what was that place in Okracoke?

jmonroe

Besides, you have the first dollar that you ever made.

That may be true but I don't have many that came after that one. :sick:

jmonroe

houdini1

Same here with the harvest season. We would report to school around Sept. 1st and then it seems the farm kids were excused for the month of Oct. They stopped doing that early on in my school career.

sterlingdog

You have a good memory. It IS Harborside Motel. Call them at 252-928-3111. I can also recommend two others. The Pony Island Motel at 252-928-4411 and Ocracoke Harbor Inn at 252-928-5731. You may be able to reach them Monday, but it could be Tuesday. I doubt that they will return to the island before Monday.

I got new 6 volt batteries for the big flashlights and some batteries for our two radios today. Out of 200 six volt batteries at Lowe's, I got the last two that they had. A truck is bringing more tonight. I picked up some water and some non-perishable foods. After Hugo, we learned never to second guess a hurricane. People said that Hugo wasn't coming. Well, it suddenly turned toward Charleston and went up to Charlotte of all places. You just can't tell. Right now, we've got a 50/50 chance of Irene turning right and going out to sea, or turning left and coming toward us. I won't move the lawn and patio furniture to the garage until Friday morning. Hopefully, I won't have to move a thing.

"You wanna pay my mortgage for a year?"

Do I get the tax deduction on my return? After paying my share of the great nephews' private school tuition this week, I'm not anxious to write any more checks for a while. Paying for one is bad enough, but two? You guys who have college tuition to pay have my deepest sympathy. This money had better pay off for these two boys. I expect them to get college scholarships in five years. I'll be broke by then.

Richard

oldfarmer50

"...tobacco, cucumbers or peaches..."

I've never picked tobacco or peaches but having picked my share of cukes I agree with your assessment.

Picking peaches must be easier because feeling "peachy" is a good thing. Picking cucumbers makes you want to "cuke". :sick:

Aside: The weather forcasters are now saying that Irene is a huge disaster about to happen. Makes me glad I'm 230 ft. above sea level on a hill. Hope you and yours are high and dry too.

oldfarmer50

"...now I have to drop peaches and cucumbers..."

Don't worry, you get more dirt and germs in the food at a high class restaurant. Most of it won't hurt you a bit.

sterlingdog

Picking peaches IS easier than cukes. Still, the peach fuzz added to the sweat will drive you crazy with the itching.

As for Irene, our house sits on a hill. I'm more worried about the wind than the rain. We have lots of tall pine trees in the front and rear of the house. It doesn't take much wind to bring down a pine tree. I've been threatening to cut down some of those trees. Too late now. I don't want them taken down for free---on my roof and garage. :sick:

Richard

oldfarmer50

"...Anyone have a nice oceanfront place that's empty next week?..."

There will be tons of empty oceanfront places in NC next week. Unfortunately, most of them will be missing the roof. :surprise:

On the positive side I bet there will be a lot of cheap cars floating around too. :P

mac24

..........the "chain" stores and places like Wal Mart. You will usually (not always) find your rear eschelon mechanics working there.

I agree. They're fine for a battery change or tire rotation, but unless you need warranty work at a dealership, a local 'indy' with a good local reputation to maintain will probably offer the best satisfaction.