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Comments
Bolivar--
A few, yes, but I have to maintain my professional detachment. On line the thrills are strictly two-dimensional and so I can easily avoid temptation and trouble. It's interesting how they all stay the same age while I age and wither. :sick:
Gogiboy
I learned from my students of a term on urbandictionary.com called the 1/2 + 6 rule. Here is their definition:
in dating, (the rule)determines the lowest possible age you can (appropriately) find dates. In other words, it determines the lowest possible age before the "too young for you" category. Example:
Billy's 35 and really likes Jane, but she's only 23 and everybody says she's too young for him. She meets the half plus six rule, so Billy doesn't care.
For me that means the youngest woman I should be seen dating would have to be 33, which would exclude all, but the tiniest percentage of students I encounter. This, of course, assumes that my wife would be okay with it. She might feel that indulging in the rule would lead to her getting half, plus 6 of my net worth in the divorce.
Gogiboy
I don't really have a response to your question, but I feel for you because I had the 1980 Pontiac Sunbird coupe (pickle green and oft referred to as the steel gherkin) and it completely cured me of ever owning another GM product. Maybe you had better luck with yours. From my perspective the sheepskin seat covers were probably the best made part in your car and you were much smarter sinking money into those than an aftermarket AC system or a factory one made by a General subsidiary.
Gogiboy
This might involve trigonometry.. :surprise:
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Richard--
Oh, I must have misinterpreted the ad, I thought she came with the car. I'm guessing, though, that she will require much higher maintenance than even the Fiat with it's poor track record in that area. Given isell's current plunge into that pool I think the Gucci 500 with hood ornament is for him
Gogiboy
We were at the Mets game yesterday like good masochists. First time at the new park and for the girls their first major league game. You would not know that from the play on the field.
I see another car in Mrs. michaelll's future....... and a CX-7 in Michaelll's.....
Thanks to some horrendous storms that rolled through Pittsburgh on Friday, my neighborhood in the City received about 4" of rain in 45 minutes. (If any of you caught it on national news, three people were killed and another missing about 2 miles from where I live when high flash flooding waters swept away cars.) The rain overwhelmed the storm water drainage system into the city, which backed up into the sewage system. Many home storm drains in basements tap into the city drainage system. My rented townhome is no exception. After all was said and done, my partially finished basement had between two and four feet of water.
Disaster teams just finished ripping out 4 feet of drywall all the way around the basement, as well as all the laminate flooring down there. After things dry out with a dehumidifier, they'll start repairs.
We lost everything we had down there save for my snow tires that were in sealed plastic bags (though they floated from the unfinished part of the basement to the unfinished part). So, starting next week I will be dealing with a potential renters insurance claim and replacing the bed and bedroom furniture we had down there. I know, a thrilling sales story. It is the one time though that I am happy to be a renter and not a homeowner. In terms of structural damage, estimates are between $15,000-$20,000. Content loss is under $3000, and if after I add everything up turns out to be under $2000, I am not even going to make a claim given that I have a high deductible.
You'd be amazed at what isn't covered... :surprise:
Glad to hear that your losses are relatively minor.... water can do a lot of damage, very quickly.
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You're correct though, I just looked at my policy and it does not have a sewer backup rider. Secondly, the mattress did not appear to have any damage but given that the water metered as high as 4 feet in the bedroom, I was not about to keep it and find out. I had them take everything.
Flooding (especially of the sewage backup variety) takes plenty of work, but is recoverable.
Best of luck!
A hurricane filled our backyard to where we could no longer
tell where the pond was and wasnt. We were worried about
the horses as the barn got almost a foot of water. Then the
steps went underwater. It wasn't until early morning that
the rain finally stopped. It had come 1 inch from coming in.
We now live at 2,265 feet elevation. I wouldn't live in the
low areas of the country if Noah parked his boat next door.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Unless of course you're filthy rich, then all that goes out the window.
I have one move left in me but don't know if I'm pulling the mountain trick or not. I'm pretty tied to being really near the ocean.
We did one back in April. Looks great but was a mess when installed.
Come on driver. We thought you better than that. You show up without an idea of what the market for the car is? No offense, but you just wasted the dealership's time.
My landlord has been buying/renovating homes on this street for 40 years, and has never had flooding once. Some of the tenants have been here at least 20 and don't recall anything like this ever happening.
On a more positive note, I have 1650 miles on the Volvo, no problems to report.
If you're filthy rich, your next wife hasn't been born yet. :P
I'm thinking three things....
1. It's no wonder some dealers play tricks and lowball customers"
2. It's no wonder stores can't keep quality people"
3. I'm damm glad I'm out of this miserable business"
though right now, there is so much dust over everything in this house, I don't think we will ever get it all cleaned up!
Might be even worse in the shower, since he will have to grind through the granite we used for the threshold, seat, and 1/2 wall cap!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
But I can say, the same job can vary in price by a factor of 2 at least depending on what you pick.
Labor is the same, but there are 1K vanities and 3K ones. Cultured marble tops, or the custom granite we used throughout the room. Heck, you can drop 1K plus easy just on shower fixtures, and free standing roman tubs can be expensive enough to make your eyes bleed!
Tile is another thing that is all over the board. $1 s/f or $10? adds up when you are buying 300SF!
In our case, I would categorize it as "doing it right budget high end" Things like custom frameless doors, replacing the dated corner soaking tub, moving lights to reflect new layout, etc. Stuff that you could do without, but really needed to do to make it look right. But, we used modest price (though spectacular looking) tile, a standard Bertch vanity, and a lower end (Kohler) tub.
anyway, I had a budget sheet that I have long since abandoned, so I can't wait to update it to see how close I came!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I know what the MSRP is and I know what they think my car is worth.....if they just want to go by blue book value. In Canada we can't find out the dealer cost. I am counting on them giving me extra for my trade...and they will still make a healthy profit on it...it is a popular car and it's in excellent condition, and I am counting on about 4-5% off the new one.
Don't forget, I have another dealer on it and he claims he will give me a really good deal. So, now I know what these guys will do, and I have asked the other dealer to come up with a price. It will be lower than dealer A, or it will be higher, which would really surprise me. But, then I will know he he was just stringing me along. If it is higher than dealer A I have to go back and say I am sorry...you weren't the scuzzy low lifes I thought you were.
Remember too, I am not desparate. I can wait until the Spring or longer if I have to. If dealer B is too high, then I will search online or write to other dealers. It isn't the money any more, it is 1st, I don't want to be taken advantage of by some hack manager who is insulting my intelligence, and 2nd, it will be a challenge.
By the way, I told them up front I wouldn't be buying, I was just looking at colors. They wanted to make the deal...I put down $5000 on my credit card, lowered the price from their MSRP contract...I could have bought it and been out of their in 30 minutes...they wasted my time. Then they had the nerve to show me a demo that's a 2011, was the wrong color because the manager didn't listen and his only goal was to sell a car, and he wanted more for the 2011 than the 2012, and he says when I go to trade it in 4 years from now it will only be worth $1000 less. Who's wasting who's time. :sick:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
feel free to abuse, misuse and malign in kind any salesman
you want. If he wants a paying job, I think Arbys is hiring.
They pay by the hour, not by the sandwich SOLD.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I may go with the towel and sunshade trick.
The only trees where my wife works drips sap, which really does a number on the paint. No thanks.
Fezo, I knew I could count on you to comment.
On a more positive note, she saw the recent Chrysler commercials ("Imported from Detroit") and she really really likes the 200 convertible with the hard top. Equipped the way we like, the MSRP is just over $33K.
Richard
Richard
You are so right! At age 58 my father-in-law left my mother-in-law for his secretary who was 28. I will say that my wife's mother took him to the cleaners. Still, when he died at age 95 a couple of years ago, his second wife still ended up with $3 million. I don't think that she ever realized that she would have to wait 37 years to get it. At least there was a little justice there.
Richard
Richard
Richard
They want a "hefty" deposit before they will consider my offer. It is standard practice from legitimate new car dealers...probably even used car dealers.
I gave him my card, but I did not sign a VISA slip. I did sign the offer to buy contract. I crossed out their number, put in my own and stipulated if the 2012 came down in price I would get that much deducted (it doesn't happen too often but just in case - as I say Jettas came down $5k and our dollar is strong, you never know). There are too many laws protecting a consumer and I will say, the dealer is pretty ethical overall. Two cars ago we did the deal on the phone, went in the next day to put down a downpayment. If they accept my $5000 deposit, they have accepted the deal...which means they owe me the car, and I would be OK with that.
But, I am glad you are looking out for me....much appreciated.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I will answer this too. Let me do it this way to simplify what could be confusing;
*On Friday we went to Dealer B. He said I can't give you a price, I don't have info on the 2012s yet.
*On Saturday we thought we would go to Dealer A and look at the lot to get some color choices lined up.
*The very new salesman came up and asked if we needed help. I said no, just looking at colors. My wife asked if he had info about the 2012s. He said he did....remember the other dealer said he didn't.
*He said if you have any questions come and get me. I am new and I'd be glad to help in any way possible.
*We went to ask some questions and we started talking to him about prices. He decided to figure out what a new car would cost and to have someone look at my trade in.
*The manager asked him to ask us if he Rocko or something, could take over.
*I said no, the new guy is doing fine, we just want some info.
*They presented the paperwork...price of a new car less my trade in, with all the extras...dealer prep etc.
*I crossed out their number and wrote in mine, about 10% less.
*They came back with a higher price and I went up half way.
*Then Rocko barged in and told me he had a 2011 demonstrator he would sell to me for that price I had given, $1500 less than the price of a new 2012.
Let me know if I wasn't clear about anything. If the new guy carried on I would not be smouldering right now. Dealer Bs price will have to be pretty high for me to buy a car from Dealer A, who has sold me my last 3 cars.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Rule #1 in car buying is to never buy a car from anyone named "Rocko". :sick:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
feel free to abuse, misuse and malign in kind any salesman
Car buying is usually a pretty stressful situation. The salesman should never be biligerent, and even worse the manager. Once the testosterone levels are raised it is going to only escalate. I am very resentful, I have bought 3 cars from this place, traded in 3 cars that were all in excellent condition, always paid cash, and I was really treated in a very crappy way. The last thing any one wants is to start arguing when you are buying the car of your dreams.
In my case I don't know what it would take for me to buy a car from this place again. I felt bad for the new salesman because he was a decent honest guy, just trying to learn the business. The salesman just barged right in, introduced himself...I couldn't make out his name.......and literally killed any chance of a deal being made.
Car buying should be as stress free as possible. If they don't like the offer you should still be able to leave on good terms. Never close the door on a potential customer. I might have got over buyer shock syndrome the next day and called them back and said "let's do it". I wouldn't do it after this experience, unless they do it at my price.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
This worked in our favor when we bought a house 3 houses ago. We loved a particular house and didn't think we could ever afford it. The fellow that owned it was 86 years old, he was renting the house to his grown up daughter, her husband and 2 adult children. The 86 year old guy got a new 32 year old girlfriend who wanted him to buy a condo in Florida. He had to sell the house to raise the money. We did a low offer of what we could afford, it was a tight market at the time, and he went for it.
Unfortunately his daughter and family had to find a new place to live. I often wonder what happened to the guy and if the relationship lasted.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Again, I can't believe that the invoice on a BMW in Canada would be that much different than it is in the U.S.
But, in your situation, since there's so little information available, and the dealer you visited doesn't want to be competitive, you may go with the method a lot of dealerships prefer.
Pack a lunch, and park yourself at a dealership for 5-6 hours, on a busy Saturday. Offer $1,000 less than U.S. invoice, ask for $1,000 more than KBB on your trade and prepare to take a Saturday afternoon to work in $50-$100 increments to get a deal that's decent.
To be fair, he slurred his name so I am not sure what it was, but Rocko is as close as I could get.
He pretty well told the young new salesman to move aside, he shook hands and introduced himself gruffly, and went into a speach about how he wanted to move a car and I am such a good customer that he would put together something that would work. He quickly shifted into that he had a demonstrator just what Iwas looking for, though a 2011. It was the wrong color but he went on about how it was exactly what I was looking for and he would sell me that one for the price I was offering.
Like I say, they pretty well said they would sell me the 2012 dor $1500 more. I think there is no transportation cost on a demo...so that makes the demo worth $2000 less. Another thing I thought of is my trade is worth $1500 more now than it would be in October or November - when the 2012s come in.
So the demo would actually cost me $2000 more for a car that will be worth about $6000 less the day I drive it away. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right...stuck in the middle with Rocko. :sick:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
GG, Prices in Canada are higher...probably 10% or 15% depending on cars. There shouldn't be a difference because our money is worth about the same. But there are other costs, transportation is higher, wages are higher, real estate costs more, smaller population so shipping costs are more, health benefits are covered. Even a paperback book that is $7.99 US will be $9.99 in Canada.
I do agree though, the deal should not have escalated to the point where I left wondering what just happened.
I have given the same fact to Dealer B, and I am waiting for him to give me a price. I can hardly wait to hear what he says. He said early this week.
At least I found out some very valuable information....what Dealer A would not take, and so it will be interesting to see what B comes up with.
I think if Bs price is high, I will just email dealers around about a 100 mile radius. Tell them what I want, what I am trading in...see who comes up with the magic number.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
buying. Switching salesmen is your call. If it becomes
all about the salesman it's time to tell Rocco to go take
a drive in the 2011. GM may have sent him in as a high
profit closer. Dealers are desperate you know. Some
people need a push. If you prefer soft sell, let them know.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
It's not a standard technique here at the dealers with whom I've had contact. The foreign car dealers may use it as a technique to make the customer feel "bound" into a deal whether they like the numbers or not.
I recall long ago I was checking to trade my Oldsmobile at the same dealership who had sold it to me a few years earlier. The salesperson had left and I was talking to his replacement. This guy wanted me to sign a blank deal sheet OR ELSE the used car guy wouldn't give a value on my used car to be traded in.
I was at the door faster than the younger, arrogant salesman could say "lost that deal."
Oddly the SOB called me at work several days later wanting to know if I was still interested. I answered, to the secretary's grimmace, "#ell yes. Why do you think I was in your store on Monday evening. I bought a car on Wednesday." And I hung up. What chutzpah.
I like the dealer like our first experience with our area Buick dealer. We were looking for a trade for my wife's Buick. I asked if he needed a deposit. he said, "No."
"Only if it's an unusual combination we might have trouble selling if you didn't take it when it came in."
"We make deals with a handshake."
That afternoon he called to say if we wanted he could upgrade at no charge the radio to an AM-stereo (remember those?) as part of a package deal that our other options qualified for. (Sorry about the preposition at the end of the sentence, folks.)
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
There's a lot of psychology in an emotional purchase like a car. The "closer" is typically an alpha male who projects a "leader" aura which compels many to follow. As a more "beta" type who has learned to play the alpha role when necessary, that type of closer would make me feel uncomfortable and desire to "fight or flight". I either go into alpha overdrive and start arguing over everything or I just walk out. The sales transaction has never ended well for the closer in dealing with me. Recently, I literally sent a salesman running to his car when he pounded on my door and attempted to strong-arm me into cable TV upgrades. :mad:
On a more positive note, I finally got an answer on the possibility of getting a Mustang V6 with both auto tranny and the Performance Package. Edmunds reviews said no, Ford's website was unclear so I called the website's "ask a question" number. This put me in touch with the Ford dealer 3 miles down the road.
I was referred to a salesman who said "Sure you can get it like that" (YEA!)
He said he didn't have a single Mustang in stock (which I knew) so I would have to order. Since he has no incentive to push me into something on the lot I might be able to make a good deal too. (YEA! again)
Now, I just have to get my wife to stop giving me that "Are you Crazy?" look when I mention trading in the Eclipse.
Wife: I thought you said you would keep that car long enough to be buried in it?"
Farmer: I changed my mind, I'd rather trade the car and be cremated instead.
Wife: OK, can we start on that today? :surprise:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
If such a demand was made it is a clear indication that salesperson is far from honest. Anyone who would give a $5,000 deposit just to have the salesperson "consider" the offer is a fool. An smart car buyer would leave that dealer as fast as humanly possible. The only time a deposit should be considered is after a deal is reached and documented and only then when the dealer must order a car to meet the buyer's specifications.
Giving a hefty deposit to entice a salesman to agree to a deal is unnecessary. Cash should not be part of the negotiation. The fact that a buyer has visited the dealership and expressed a desire to purchase a new vehicle if a good deal can be reached is more than sufficient for the salesman.
A buyer should never disclose any information to a salesman that is unnecessary. The potential that a buyer will accept financing through the dealership is just one more revenue stream the salesman needs to consider. Telling a salesman I plan to pay cash simply removes that from his mind and could result in a worse deal.
One time when helping my father buy a Chevy in Maine the idiot salesman demanded dad agree to buy the car before the salesman would offer a price. Goodbye! The thing was my dad always bought Chevys from that dealer. From the Chevy dealer we visited a Nissan dealer where he bought a Maxima. Dad never bought a Chevy again. Needless to say, that Chevy dealer no longer exists.
Always happy to oblige.....
I feel better about it when I see she has her eye on something else..... You'll love the Mazda as your DD and the 200 will be a nice car - just not a hot rod.
I've also seen it used as a closing technique ("let me take a deposit to my boss to show him you're a serious buyer"). Hey, if he doesn't think I'm serious, I wouldn't be in your dealership.
However, this BMW dealer sounds like they use the "closer" type of sales.....salesman gives a car presentation, the closer comes in to seal the sale.
Kind of surprised to hear of a BMW dealer using "closers". I used to find them at Ford, GM, Honda, Toyota and Chryco stores.....not at the European import stores.
Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable buying from the nearest BMW dealer. They're beginning to sound sleazy with their tactics. Sure would like to know their name so we can look them up.
That's what I should have told Rocko, you take it for a spin because I am not interested. The rookie sales guy was doing fine. Once we left Rocko was so arragant he probably told the rookie...Now see what you have done, you have lost a good customer. It was all Rockos fault for barging in and getting involved. If I wanted a 2011 demonstrator I would have asked about it, and he could have shown me the car but not pushed it at me.
I was telling a friend about my experience and he said his daughters Rabbit had to be towed to the VW dealer. He heard the new Jettas were $5000 less for a 2012. He asked the salesman to give him a price on a trade, the Rabbit for a Jetta Diesel...he left his phone number.
He never got a phone call. Wouldn't a salesman who is a little ambitious have called him and given him a price?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
It is used here all the time but it is regulated by the government. What it does is prevents you from agreeing to a low price, and then walking out to find an even lower price.
My friend who bought his BMW from another dealer (Dealer
Seems Dealer A are very arrogant, they are after the people who won't haggle, who will just buy from the closest dealer.
I don't think they will put your card through to do a VISA transaction unless they OK the deal.
But, I am glad you have told me this isn't standard practice, because I would prefer to buy from a dealer that doesn't use this technique. I have bought 3 cars there, I have paid cash for them, but they don't trust me....that says a lot right there.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Farmer: I changed my mind, I'd rather trade the car and be cremated instead.
Just tell her you decided you wanted to buried in a Mustang instead of an Eclipse.
I think you are right about alpha salesmen. If the rookie had continued I would do some homework on their price, and would maybe get back. I would have to be pretty desparate to buy from them again, and it sure won't be Rocko who gets his name on the contract. And, if Dealer B comes up with a good price, Dealer A probably will never have me back as a customer.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Ken, glad you joined in and I appreciate your comments. It does make sense what you say. I have always had to put down a deposit on an offer, at least at this BMW dealership. I suppose from their perspective, it stops you from backing out once you have agreed to a price. Let's say I negotiate a very low price, they agree to it, and I say, I am going to find a dealer that will sell for less.
I don't know. I believe the government has regulated the business in such a way that this is pretty standard practice. I think you could sue their behinds off if they tried to cash in on the VISA invoice because a deal has not been consummated....that is I have not received anything for my $5000, and I don't have a copy of the contract with a signature on it.
I doubt they would even run it through the VISA machine until it is all signed and OKd.
Like I posted above, my friend bought a similar car from Dealer B and it was all done without a deposit. I believe a deal is solidified even with $1 as a deposit, but of course then you could back out without much of a loss. But, it would seem $100 or at most $500 should be enough to show you are serious.
In your Dads case, buying the car without knowing the price does say something about the salesman, that is just wrong. Although, in my case he wanted me to buy the car at full MSRP the first time around. They wrote up the contract for the car I wanted for a 2011, said if it was up to $2000 more for a 2012 then I was on the hook for that, and just sign here.
That kind of got my defenses up to begin with. The $5000 I didn't question because it was done each time, but I am going to put that in my radar screen from now on...if they don't trust me then I won't trust them.
I am glad you posted your experience because I learned something very valuable from your remarks.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
GG, as I wrote in my last post, $100 is reasonable, $500 is reasonable. $5000 is a bit much really. Sounds like they don't trust me very much. It just puts up my alert radar switch even more.
I think it was reasonable to leave a $500 deposit for a car the dealer was going to order for you. Actually, I think that is on the low side, it probably would have been more if the car was pea soup green or some color they wouldn't be able to sell if they were stuck with it.
I think the closer was only there because the salesman was a rookie. It could have been his first week on the job. The closer wanted to move in earlier, but we said we wanted to stay with the rookie. The rookie went out to show my 2nd offer which was half way between my first low offer, and their 2nd lower asking price. He was gone a long time...at least 15 minutes. Then the "Close" just walked in and took over.
The whole thing is like reliving a nightmare. It was such an unpleasant experience.
A funny thing is, they have my email address and phone number, I really wonder if they are going to contact me. I am hoping Dealer B comes in with a nice low price, and Dealer A calls to ask if I have thought this over.
Then I can tell them I have bought somewhere else.
I won't say the name for legal reasons and I don't want it to escalate.
My friend said I should try a broker. Pay $300 and get the car for a really low price. I will wait until B calls and go from there.
In my friends case, he wanted to cut a pretty close deal, so the sales manager actually called the used car manager and asked if he had any one on a list looking for his trade in car. He said he did, so he got a few $1000 more for it than he would normally have got. That is being creative and doing some actual work to make a sale. I can look up the value of the trade and knock $1500 off the new car, that doesn't take a lot of talent.
These days businesses work separately. The new car guy won't work with the used car guy and the service is all separate...if some dealership was really with it they could do some good extra business by trying to work together.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
As for closers, I tell them this: "I know that yu have come in to help with the deal, but my figures given to the salesman are the same figures that I will offer you. It's very nice of you to want to help, but it doesn't change the deal as it stands." I had a closer on the Cadillac....the GM. He was very nice and took me at my word. When the salesman returned, he laughed and said,"George didn't do any better than I did." I responded, "You're my sales guy and we'll close the deal together if we can meet the figures." They did. Always remember: You are the one in control; it's your money, your car, and your desire to purchase. The dealer has the vehicle that you want, and they become YOUR VEHICLE to get it. If they won't play fairly and friendly, I'll go to another sandbox to play with someone else's toys. It's your life. Manage it the best that you can in a way that brings you comfort and satisfaction. Your're a man of integrity and grace. Find a dealer who recognizes that fact.
Richard