Stories from the Sales Frontlines

mako1a

Hey, jmonroe, maybe you were seeing a Yellow Vette in my future.

I'm going to the Corvettes at Carlisle on Friday. Meeting my buddy

from the Burgh there. Carlisle Events

driver100

looking for a piece of test equipment and we didn't feel a thing.

Strange. They felt it in Toronto, but I am 50 miles West of Toronto and we didn't feel it.

Hope everyone is OK.

explorerx4

If the oil pressure light flashes on and there is no dipstick to check the level, it needs to be flat bedded to the dealer to hook it up to the computer.
If you are lucky, there is a local one. ouch.

isellhondas

So, it fails the emission test because of a so called "bad" gas cap.

Went several places looking for a replacement before finding one for 15.00 at a NAPA store. It looked and felt like the original in every way. Showed the smog place the receipt and passed.

Next day, the Check Engine light comes on. No surprise, it's always something.

Luckilly our son has a friend with an OBD-2 scanner..." Bad Gas Cap"

A search of the BMW forums give the news that ONLY a factory BMW gas cap will work properly!

Cleared code, went to BMW store, spent 14.00 (!) on a factory gas cap for the fussy little car and so far the light has remained off!

I'm surprised I don't have to put BMW air in the tires!

mako1a

Ya lost me there, explorer. Flatbed, dipstick missing, oil light.

Did you mean to reply to someone else? I have no such problems.

andres3

Ha... don't give them any bright ideas.

Audi's DSG transmission oil cost me $22/quart, but I feel much better going with a mechanic that bought DSG OIL rather than quoting me generic Muilti-Vehicle ATF FLUID!

driver100

I also think that you would be a difficult customer to deal with.

I am the easiest person to sell a car to. I just want a business transaction to take place and I want to be treated as a business person trying to consumate a deal...after all, I want the car, they want to sell a car.

I don't expect to buy it and for the dealer to lose money on the transaction.
I don't want to pay full MSRP right from the start. that was insulting. In case you missed what happened, the rookie was doing fine, but the "Closer" wanted to take over. I said "no" to him joining us twice, then he just barged in. He rapidly told me he had a demonstrator I could have for the price I agreed to for a 2012....with a $5000 deposit on my VISA (I think they put it through if they agree - not before).

I don't like the "Closer" and we didn't need his help. He didn't accomplish anything except to aggravate me and my wife, and they made a transaction that could have been completed in 30 minutes take 3 hours...and they still didn't sell me a car.

Dealer B, if you count the actual transaction time, has probably done it all in 15 minutes, no downpayment, no insulting MSRP, no getting sidetracked on a demo.

I did enjoy reading your post with how it works with Line -Closers and the way your dealership worked.

In my case the difference between Dealer A and B were like opposites. My friend told me I would like buying at B. They weren't arrogant, they were like regular people, they joke with you, they give you the numbers upfront...no game playing, the salesmen don't wear stuffy suits, they don't act like young executives...they are just regular people that you can talk to and can come to an agreement with.

I bought our 2 2008s at Dealer A and the transaction time was under 30 minutes for each if you take out the time the salesman fumbled around on the computer.

Your dealership sounds fine, my kind of place. I am just there to buy a car, it is a stressful time spending a few $1000 in a day, all I ask is that it be made as easy as possible.

driver100

I'm surprised I don't have to put BMW air in the tires!

But the gas cap should teach you to only use genuine BMW parts. BMW is smart, you pretty well have to take your car to a BMW dealer to get work done on it properly...or a really well trained independent.

It's not convenient for the consumer, but it is brilliant marketing for BMW.

andres3

I think it's not just marketing, but protecting the consumer. If a mechanic has the choice between Part A from company XYZ or Part B from company ABC, they will most likely choose whatever makes them more money (cheaper), and charge you the "BMW OEM" price anyway.

I think it's better when you know you get good quality by using a "BMW" part. A really good mechanic might be able to figure out who BMW's supplier is, and buy the same part or item from them directly (for example, Bilstein DSG oil made in germany) when the AUDI DSG oil is made by Bilstein and probably costs more for the "Audi" label on the bottle.

Stasis uses a KONI coilover for their "Stasis" suspension upgrade on the A3 (but you can get the KONI's directly for less), or a Bosch spark plug, and so on and so forth.

Most mechanics are untrustworthy however, so it's good to specify OEM.

mako1a

He rapidly told me he had a demonstrator

When I inquired about the 2011 Mustang a dealer

suggested a 2010 on his lot. I said tell me the

horsepower difference. He said OK, You got me.

2011 rendered the 2010 obsolete.

driver100

When I inquired about the 2011 Mustang a dealer suggested a 2010 on his lot

If you asked for a used Mustang, or a Mustang that would be under $20000 I could see him saying he had a 2010. But, youspecifically asked for a 2011 so I would assume you want that car for a particular reason.

I guess it is a good sign to bail out at that point. The guy isn't listening or even trying to understand what you want. You are wasting your time.

With the "Closer" he could have mentioned he had a 2011 demonstrator and he could ask me if I am interested. I looked at it and said in a month it will be a year old and when I go to trade it in 4 years from now it will be worth about $6000 to $8000 less than a 2012. He actually said, no, only about $1000 difference because the 12s will be basically the same car as the 2011. Does he think I am a complete idiot?

I have found the guys name and picture on the dealers website. His last name kind of sounds like Rocko, I guess that's the part I could make out.

I think it is a case of going with your intuition. If it sounds like it is going off track, it probably is...time to go somewhere else. There's lots of cars and lots of dealers.

driver100

I think it's not just marketing, but protecting the consumer.

It definitely protects the consumer. But, I still think it is marketing too. Service work is a big money maker for car dealers. BMW, Mercedes made it so you pretty well have to get your car serviced at the dealer, or really bad things could happen to you.

It's brilliant planning. Make the engines so fine and unique that only your dealer could possibly fix or service your car.

I just took my Jeep to Jippy Lube...what did I care? But, I sure don't want to mess up my BMW by taking it to the kids at the lube shop.

fezo

I'm surprised I don't have to put BMW air in the tires!

You don't have BMW air in your tires? That can get pricey down the road. Getting the BMW air is cheaper in the long run. :P

roadburner

I think it's better when you know you get good quality by using a "BMW" part. A really good mechanic might be able to figure out who BMW's supplier is, and buy the same part or item from them directly

It's really not all that hard to figure out; and the good mechanics know when to use a BMW OEM part and when another brand will work just as well- or better.
That said, I was changing the oil in my wife's X3 and I stopped by the local Autozone to see if they had any OEM(Mann) filters. They didn't, but they DID have an STP filter for $10.50- the pitiful thing was made in Malaysia. My BMW dealer sold me the German OEM filter for $8.50. As far as I am concerned, if the filter is not made by Mahle/Knect or Mann it is not going to be installed on any of my BMWs.

fezo

Was up in NYC for the dreaded followup appointment. We didn't feel the earthquake - we were probably in the Lincoln tunnel at the time.

So, results are back on three of my four brothers. They match each other but not me. Unless brother #4 matches I have to go from the donor bank and hope for the best. Not as good as a family match.

None of the local doctors wanted to touch the question of disability. I asked the doctor today and he said name the day. It will be soon.

Heading to bed and off for more blood in the morning. Further report later tomorrow.

28firefighter

I am working part-time in downtown (dahntahn) Pittsburgh and the tremor made our building sway and my cubicle walls shake. Weird feeling, like an amusement park ride.

sterlingdog

Thanks for asking about the wife. She's still having ups and downs with the meds. We keep trying to get it right.

Hope you had a nice vacation. On the way home from our trip, I did 650 miles one day. It was a killer. If you ever have time in Asheboro, visit our state zoo there. The kids would love it. You were only about 40 minutes from our house. I should have fixed you a big breakfast that morning. Glad you arrived home safely.

Richard

mako1a

My SIL sent me a pic of some plastic lawn furniture

(table and 4 chairs) with 1 chair on its back. Picture

was labeled "2011 Virginia Quake" with the caption

"We will rebuild". I got a good laugh out of that.

Thank goodness it was very minor (at least here).

sterlingdog

"I think that Richard may be closer to Mineral, Va (epicenter)."

We definitely felt it here---windows shook, closet doors shook, and the china in the dining room shook. The grandfather clock in the foyer began to chime at the wrong time. At first, we thought that it was Ft. Bragg---we're only 30 minutes from their practice bombing sites. Then it dawned on us that this was something different because we didn't hear the bombing. It was a strange feeling.

Richard

mako1a

We didn't have any window shaking, but within 30 seconds

of my wife telling me she felt something I went out to look

at the swimming pool and saw the tiniest of ripples. Kind of

like what a slight breeze would produce.

sterlingdog

"...but that's a stretch to think 'sports holder'."

I guess that I spent too much time around teens and college students. :sick:

Richard

oldfarmer50

"...dealer suggested a 2010 on his lot..."

Were you wearing your baby sealskin coat at the time? Did he really think you were stupid?

Unless he was offering the 2010 at half price or something, all that salesman would see from me is tail lights. :mad:

That brings up the question: What did dealers do with any 2010 GT Mustangs left on their lots after the 2011 came out? Did they just drive them into the ocean?

Maybe they just tried the Hail Mary play like they tried with you.

oldfarmer50

The weather stations are already beating the "run for your life" drum for hurricane Irene which is coming up the coast. Baring any sudden course change it sounds like just a big rain event for most folks. Still, I'm sure people will be stripping the store shelves bare of milk and bread.

I wonder if the sales folks ever see die-hard bargain hunters coming in during disasters (earthquakes, hurricanes) looking to score a great deal?

Maybe after the rain stops mako1a can get a good deal on that Mustang convertible with the unintended swimming pool in the back seat.

kyfdx

The Reds and Marlins are playing a double header today, so they aren't there on Thursday.... just changed the schedule, yesterday..

oldfarmer50

Way over in KY and they are scared of a little rain? What girlie men! :P

When we bought the PT Crusier for my wife I insisted that she test drive it before I sealed the deal. Just as we left the dealer the skies opened up in a deluge. My poor wife was scared to death but I think the fact that the car didn't float off the road sold her on it.

driver100

. Getting the BMW air is cheaper in the long run.

Also, if the air goes down in one tire you should probably put new fresh air in all the tires to maintain maximum performance. :P

driver100

three of my four brothers. They match each other but not me.

We are all hoping for the best for you. Let us know how you did today.

driver100

tremor made our building sway and my cubicle walls shake

How is the new Volvo? Does it get through earthquakes in good condition?

driver100

I guess that I spent too much time around teens and college students.

Yes, that definitely has got to be the reason.

graphicguy

driver....I'm with you. I've railed on this before, but sales people would do themselves a BIG favor if they just would listen. As you said, you weren't asking for a demo. You had something specific in mind. Either they had it/could get it, or they couldn't. Don't know why that seemingly simple act (listening for what the customer wants) is so difficult to understand. You'd think that if a sales person just listened, they'd be more successful. When I had a sales team as direct reports, I used to tell them all the time....."the easiest part of your job is listening to your customer (potential)."

It's hard enough to be in sales. Why make it harder trying to sell something that the potential customer told you he/she isn't interested it?

Makes no sense.....especially for a high line dealership.

Not as "hi-falootin" as Kirstie's grill outs, but did grill out some burgers (from Costco, no less) on a "no-name" grill (built like a tank) I got from Costco several years ago, too. Threw some pineapples, sliced onions, charred/roasted some red peppers, melted some gruyere cheese on top.

Sliced up some mini portabellas and threw them in with garlic and chicken broth.

Side salad made with mandarin oranges and pine nuts.

Not lobster (that's only for special occasions), but GF, son, his GF and I were in the tall cotton with that feast last night.

fezo...thinking about you, dude. I just know in my heart things are going to work out fine.

Not nearly as serious, but I'm having a cataract removed on Friday. Won't be able to see (and, post). So, go ahead and have you fun and post "stuff" behind my back now while I'm half blind. :P

imidazol97

> we didn't hear the bombing.

But that sound would require about 75 seconds at minimum if you were 15 miles from Ft. Bragg (30 minutes drive time). That's at least a full minute to hear the bombs if that were what was happening.

graphicguy

farmer.....I'm north of kyfdx. So, I'm not "afeared" of a little rain. However, depending on how close kyfdx lives to the Ohio River, that thing will flood with just a few days of rain or melting snow. And, that's a mess when it does happen.

When I had my boat, I would never risk the docks being flooded when rain would approach. I'd move that thing to a different state or lake entirely.

oldfarmer50

"...were in the tall cotton with that feast..."

I've seen you use that term a few times here. Do you by any chance have a southern rural past? That phrase has some interesting farming roots.

Being in tall cotton has come to mean that all things are well or that you are well off but the original meaning was a bit different:

1. Tall cotton was healthy cotton, so a tall crop would reward you with a bumper crop. When cotton was tall it was ready to pick so you would soon be seeing money.

2. Picking cotton in the hot sun was murder. Bending over to pick it was even worse. Getting into the tall cotton was when things got easier.

3. There were no bathrooms for cotton pickers so they had to squat in the field when the need arose. To be shi**ing in the tall cotton meant you had privacy and was thus a better place.

For some reason that information has been stuck in my head all these years just waiting for an excuse to spill out. :confuse:

driver100

You'd think that if a sales person just listened, they'd be more successful.

GG, probably the number 1 rule in sales is to find out what the customer really wants, and then to find it for him.

The good news is I have a price Dealer A will give me. Basically they will give me a 2012 at 2011 MSRP and they will absorb any increase in price, which looks like it would be $2000. But, I only win if prices go up, if they don't I pay full price.

Dealer B, who has worked with me by email will give me 5% off on a 2012, and originally he said he would give me $X for my trade. This time he said my trade could be worth less in October or November when the new one comes in. I said I want it locked in, 5% off on the new car and $X for my trade guaranteed. He said he is off today but will talk to his manager on Thursday. All done without a contract and no deposit.

I wrote to the rookie salesman at Dealer A and said we were pleased with the way he conducted our meeting. I said he was honest and got all the information we needed. We told the sales manager twice we didn't want him involved. When he did barge in he proceeded to try to sell me a 2011 demo for about the same price as a 2012, and when I said it will be worth at least $6000 less 4 years from now when I want to trade it in it will be worth only $1000 less. I said I hope he is not blamed for losing the sale because it was not the salesman's fault we walked away. I wished him success in his career.

Dealer B has to guaranty me the value on my trade-in. If he accepts my offer his price is about $5000 lower than Dealer A, but I have to absorb any cost increase. At least I know the numbers and I am not very good at gambling so I like working with Dealer B.

If Dealer B won't agree to the locked in price of my trade, I'll put things on the back burner. Try another dealer when I have time. This has been a real learning experience....2 dealers, same car, two totally different ways of handling a potential customer.

I think Dealer A is counting on people just going to their nearest BMW dealer, being happy with $1500 off, or full MSRP if they can get away with it, and thinking that was OK. They don't know or care about shopping around.

GG, that meal sounds really good, and I have no problem with hamburgers. They are one of my favorite foods....and those vegetables sound excellent, a great way to liven up a meal with very few calories...for those who care about that.

driver100

To be shi**ing in the tall cotton meant you had privacy and was thus a better place. For some reason that information has been stuck in my head all these years just waiting for an excuse to spill out.

Glad you shared that bit of information with us OF.

Actually, that was very interesting, and if I am asked that question on a trivia night I will now have the answer.

28firefighter

The volvo is great. Indeed, it does get through them quite well. When I arrived back to my parking garage, it had moved between two supports and lowered itself to the ground. Those swedes think of everything.

jmonroe

I'm surprised I don't have to put BMW air in the tires!

Who says you don’t, it’s coming. Those rolling tire sensors just take a little longer to get a feeling of the road after the previous owner has them reset to turn the light out.

I could never put up with cars that go south after 7/8 years of being in service. That’s enough to make me an appliance man. Knowing what you know about aging BMW’s I was very surprised to hear that you got one. Just being the best of a bad group isn’t good enough for me.

Please don’t tell us you see a Range Rover out there with a good price.

jmonroe

driver100

Knowing what you know about aging BMW’s I was very surprised to hear that you got one.

He wanted "the feel of the road". Now he has it...he has to walk every where. :P

jmonroe

If you ever have time in Asheboro, visit our state zoo there. The kids would love it.

I seem to remember you saying that when I posted about our vacation last year when we stayed in Asheboro. I don’t think we’ll be going to Myrtle Beach again next year. I heard talk that Disney World is being considered for 2012. I don’t doubt that your zoo is a nice place but the one here in the Burgh is supposedly one of the better ones too and Son’s #1 and #2 have an annual pass there, so a zoo isn’t all that exciting to the kids anymore.

You were only about 40 minutes from our house. I should have fixed you a big breakfast that morning.

Yeah…yeah. You said that last year too but you didn’t step up this year and you knew we were headed your way. Why stop at just a breakfast. A bed and breakfast would be better. Then you’d have had the opportunity to have been in the same zoo conditions I was in. :sick:

Speaking of a breakfast, we ate at the same IHOP as last year. Didn’t like it then and didn’t like it this time either. That’ll be the last time for that. I’ll go to the Huddle House down the road (even your place) before I set foot in that IHOP again. :mad:

jmonroe

qbrozen

I looked at it and said in a month it will be a year old and when I go to trade it in 4 years from now it will be worth about $6000 to $8000 less than a 2012.

No way. Year to year trade-in differences (barring model year changes) is more like $2k-$3k on the pricerange you are talking about.

graphicguy

oldfarmer....being in "tall cotton" was just an expression I've heard since I was a kid around here. I've always heard and understood it to mean someone is "doing well". Sometimes it referred to doing well financially, or eating well, or not having any worries.

Don't know anything about those other references you posted. Not saying they are or aren't correct, as they seem plausible. It's just I've never heard the term associated with those meanings.

You've made me speculate about the term though. I have no reason to think any of this is fact, just my interpretation. We certainly don't have any cotton fields around OH. I'm born and raised in what once was a Union state (Ohio). A short trip across the OH river going south, KY was a confederate state. As such, it wouldn't surprise me if the term made its way this far north from the southern Confederate states which produced a lot of cotton.

So the term made its way from the deep south, this far North.

As far as it's true origin or meaning, I can't speculate.

However, I do know what it means now.....as stated before....that in some way, shape or fashion, a person who's "in tall cotton", is doing well.

jmonroe

Not nearly as serious, but I'm having a cataract removed on Friday. Won't be able to see (and, post). So, go ahead and have you fun and post "stuff" behind my back now while I'm half blind.

It’s not nearly as much fun fighting with someone that has one arm (in this case an eye) tied behind their back. Don’t worry, it’s nothing. I had it done (right eye) in the summer of 2009.

Youngest grandson thought it was great seeing me with the pirate-patch over my eye. Now he can’t wait for the left eye to be done. Again, I don’t think you have anything to worry about there either.

jmonroe

driver100

No way. Year to year trade-in differences (barring model year changes) is more like $2k-$3k on the pricerange you are talking about

My current car is 4 years old. They are offering me $2000 more for it if I trade it in now instead of in October/November. That is going down about $1000 a month!

I know that won't continue at that rate, but so far my car has averaged a depreciation rate of almost $8000 a year, so you think that will drop to $2000 or $3000 in year 5?

mako1a

so you think that will drop to $2000 or $3000 in year 5?

I think depreciation is being used as a selling tool. As in salesmooch

gets paid when you pull the trigger. Sooner signing means sooner

payday. It also loosely locks you in with them. Look at the big picture.

qbrozen

I did say $2k-$3k in the pricerange you are talking about. I guess I should also add "at the age you are talking about." Obviously the difference between a 1-year old car and a 2-year old car could be greater.

I don't know what car you have, but that sounds pretty excessive (unless you are talking about a highline car). I mean, the Mustang is a $30k car. If it were to drop $8k per year for 4 years it would be worth negative money. Does that sound accurate to you?

For comparison, look at the value of an '08 vs '09. Per Edmunds, the GT Deluxe differs by $2130 from one year to the next.

sterlingdog

That brings up an interesting question, since you are my scientific and mechanical guru. If it takes us a full minute to hear the bombing from Ft. Bragg, why to we hear the sound and feel the vibrations at the same time? I would think that you would feel the vibrations before you heard the sounds. I expect your usual layman's response so that I understand. I can always tell when the U.S. is about to go into a country like Libya, Iran, Iraq, etc. They do these bombing practices for 3 or 4 days before we all hear about the invasion on the news.

Richard

sterlingdog

I forgot about the Burg zoo. You're right. The kids are used to that I guess.

I didn't step forward this year to offer you food because we were supposed to be at the beach ourselves. Remember?

You didn't mention that IHop last year. It's terrible. You should have gone to the K&W Cafeteria. Their breakfast is delicious, as well as lunch and dinner. Even if you go to Disney World next year, you can stop in Asheboro. Take your same route, but pick up I-95 in Lumberton, N.C. and head straight down. Actually, it will save you a little time to go from Asheboro to Laurinburg and pick up I-95 at a little town called Rowland at the South Carolina border.

Richard

sterlingdog

"Getting the BMW air is cheaper in the long run."

Still, Isell will need the special BMW air pump. They are pretty pricey. :P

Richard

verdugo

Fezo, GG, and everybody else having medical problems/procedures.

driver100

I mean, the Mustang is a $30k car. If it were to drop $8k per year for 4 years it would be worth negative money.

Yes, everything is relative. I would agree a Mustang could lose $2000 to $3000 a year in depreciation in year 5 and 6. A more expensive car, the one I was looking at, was more than twice what the Mustang in our example was selling for.......so I think that car could depreciate $6000 pretty easily in year 5.

I looked up a 2008 BMW 535Xi and today it is worth $21,500 to $24,500.
A 2009 same car is worth...........................................$24,500 to $29,500,

so a minimum of $3000 difference for one in rough shape, but I guess a wreck is a wreck, to $5000 difference for a car in good condition. And a long ways from the $1000 difference Mr Closer said would be the difference.