Stories from the Sales Frontlines

jmonroe

My second rant is about getting $500 off for loyalty programs. I would be pretty upset if I was trading in a different brand, switching to this new brand, and I didn't get an equal discount. Lots of manufacturers offered this loyalty discount. I suppose the car maker doesn't want to lose a customer, but it isn't a good way to find new ones...unless they give it to you any way somehow.

I can understand a “loyalty discount”; I was the recipient of that when I bought the ’06 Sonata and the ’09 Genny, $500 each time. What I can’t understand is the “conquest discount” for being a new customer but the guy who is already a customer doesn’t get a discount. The first time I saw a “conquest discount” was a few years ago on a Black Friday when I was kicking tires at a mom/pop Buick store. I just wanted to see the Lucerne and LaCrosse. A salesman came over and said I could get a “conquest discount” if I bought by the end of the year. I said again I was just looking but I asked if that was less than the “loyalty discount”. He goes on to say that Buick was not giving out “loyalty discounts” at that time and me being a new customer meant that I would get a better deal than a Buick customer. :confuse: I was surprised and said that if I was a Buick customer and I didn’t get as good of a deal as a guy off the street I’d go to some other place and get their “conquest discount”. He agreed with me and said that other Buick dealers didn’t like that idea either but that was the way Buick was doing it. He said they were helpless because there wasn’t enough money in the car for them to give up another $500 to make the sale to their repeat customers. I remember saying, “good luck trying to keep your loyal old time customers with that program”.

jmonroe

stickguy

Need to head over to the Ford dealer this week. Got a test drive certificate at the auto show. $50 visa card for taking a test drive. guess i will find out what an Edge drives like after all!

also a mailer for a $25 gas card for test driving a Hyundai. So might be seeing what a Santa Fe feels like too!

driver100

“good luck trying to keep your loyal old time customers with that program”.

I think "loyalty" and "conquest" programs are a bad idea. "Conquest" even sounds terrible, like you last and they have captured you.

Just make it a $500 gift, or gift certificate because we think you are a nice guy.
Why aggravate a whole group of potential buyers. And, I am a little sympathetic to "graduate" discounts as I know the car manufacturers want to get first time buyers into one of their cars, and coming up with the money might be difficult for a student.......but, I would expect the dealer to say something like, "We can't give you $500 of on the student discount, but I can get you $300 off on some other discount".

I might walk away over $500 that doesn't make sense to me, it could be a deal killer.

driver100

guess i will find out what an Edge drives like after all!

Try a Fusion after all too and see what you think.

imidazol97

>get a better deal than a Buick customer.

GM had been mailing discount offers to me through the years. I'm on their ownership list so those could supplant a loyalty discount.

Since you yourself were a conquest customer, I'm not clear on why you were arguing about Buick's not offering a loyalty discount--it wouldn't have applied to yourself.

jmonroe

Since you yourself were a conquest customer, I'm not clear on why you were arguing about Buick's not offering a loyalty discount--it wouldn't have applied to yourself.

I wasn't arguing, I just made a comment because I thought it was pretty dumb for Buick to want me as a first time customer more than customers they already had. I know that they want as many customers as they can get but if you don't take care of what you already have you're going about it the wrong way.

How many times have we heard the salesman that used to hang out here say, "I make my money from repeat sales and I will do everything I have to to keep them even at the expense of taking a little less money"? To me that's just common sense but Buick and others that have "conquest discounts" but nothing for repeat customers don't have it.

jmonroe

jipster

2007 Nissan Sentra S with 65,000 miles. Had gone to dealership about a week ago to look at car. Made offer of $8,200 to dealership salesmanager via the internet (an alternate buying process as outlined in my second book). He sweated me out for a couple days. Called yesterday and says my offer is what they have in the car $8,200, says he'll split the difference with me and sell it for $9,100. Was listed around $10,500 internet price, down from $11,700 man off the street.

Nada does indeed have dealer trade in at $8,200. Kelley Blue Book has it at $7,500 (which is the one I initially looked at). Report is one accident on Carfax. Dealership says minor bumper scrape, I can call original owner. Car looks and drives great.

I'm thinking with the depreciation from the accident, the dealership probably got the car for around $7,500, and charged about $700 for their inspection and detailing work. Figure $500 for tax on $8,200 offer, $100 for tax, title, lisence and doc. fee... $9,000 out the door should get it done??? :confuse:

jmonroe

Made offer of $8,200 to dealership salesmanager via the internet (an alternate buying process as outlined in my second book). He sweated me out for a couple days. Called yesterday and says my offer is what they have in the car $8,200, says he'll split the difference with me and sell it for $9,100.

Report is one accident on Carfax. Dealership says minor bumper scrape, I can call original owner. Car looks and drives great. $9,000 out the door should get it done???

If you didn’t cheap out when you were doing your second book and had given me my price for writing the forward, you’d know that when the SM calls in the middle of the month to make the deal there is more to give up on his end. I’d say $8600 out the door should do it especially with a Carfax incident.

BTW, all Carfax reports are minor (ask ‘isell’ if he ever shows up again) and why should you believe a seller that dumped his car, anyway. Another tidbit you’d have gotten if I wrote the forward. :P

jmonroe

driver100

Checked online and there is a dealer in the opposite direction that was supposed to have 3 manual Passats in inventory. They were closed but took a 30 minute drive to Bradenton to look.
They had about 20 Passats on the lot but none of them were standard. Automatics start at $22,700, but the base standard was $20000. Most have a few extras like a sunroof and pretty soon you get up to $28000 for a Passat.

The first dealer is supposed to have a manual model at their other dealership, and said they would bring one over if I gave them a day to get it. I don't think dealers carry the base model, it is a loss leader to get you in.

One more thing, Edmunds has a neat feature where you can look up dealers and see what other people thought about the dealer. The original VW dealer had 6 reviews and 1.5 stars out of 5. One person said they were deceived and spent $800 for extra work which was just a package of coupons for oil changes etc. 2 complained about the $699 preparation fee.
The dealer further away in the other direction did a bit better. One dealer on the East cost got 5 out of 5 with lots of reviews and great comments. I don't know whether to trust this dealer. The Honda dealer was slightly better. The salesman said they add extras to their cars, stripes, mudflaps, doorguards etc. One complaint said when he picked up his car it had all these extras added on.

Lots of complaints about the finance guy selling loans and extras.

I have a feeling I will have to read the contract carefully and watch my back if i buy a car there.

oldfarmer50

"...I will have to read the contract carefully and watch my back..."

That's a good idea no matter where you buy but I've heard it's particularlly true in Florida :lemon:

sterlingdog

"...Edmunds has a neat feature..."

When I first came here, that was the site I used to rip the guts out of the Pinehurst Toyota dealership. I hope that millions saw my review.

Richard

dino001

I disagree. American corporations are way too focused on seeking "new" business than maintaining the current one. Staying with your current vendor/provider is universally seen as an implicit invitation to raising the price or lowering the service. You are happy with us, thank you, here is your renewal bill with new surcharge, higher price. The new guy? Oh, he gets a one time rebate.

So somebody charging less their exising customer is nice for a change.

dino001

From VW dealers in Tampa Bay, I recommend Reeves. Both there my first Subaru (VW and Subaru are same showroom) in 2003 and my current BMW (separate staff). Very professional, good manners and no pressure or outsized claims (I hate that). May not be lowest price in town (and they claim to be), but the prices are still reasonable and customer experience is generally best in town. One of those places that you DO NOT need a shower after the visit.

BTW, pretty much everybody (very few exceptions) charges here $500+ fee, so as long as you know it and ask before, there is no surprise. It's annoying, but just need to get used to that and adjust the price for it.

dino001

My stance on Carfax incident reports is if the trade happened within six months of the incident, I won't touch it. If longer, it means it either got fixed to the owner's satisfaction, or was trully minor in nature.

imidazol97

> I wasn't arguing,

I hadn't been able to post most of the day--has Edmunds had problems?

I didn't mean arguing in the negative sense. I meant in the debate or position sense. I should have used a better wording.

I understand your point. However, GM has been criticized if they do and criticized if they don't do certain things. Through the years people felt they should try to attract other brand owners. So they have conquest rewards. But then people feel they should try to keep their current GM buyers.

Continuing, GM is criticized for not making enough money per car because they use discounts. Then they are criticized now because their pricing is too high on cars, especially the newer, better ones.

driver100

I used to rip the guts out of the Pinehurst Toyota dealership. I hope that millions saw my review.

Negative reviews certainly have an affect on me. I will have to check the invoice carefully. In Ontario the forms dealers use have been standardized so you don't have to read the fine print. Is that the case in Florida or can the dealer put in some fine print of their own?

driver100

American corporations are way too focused on seeking "new" business than maintaining the current one.

That is true in many cases. Cable companies give new customers low payments for a limited time. It happens with newspaper subscriptions a lot.
Happens for cell phone companies. But some companies use loyalty programs, drug stores and department and even grocery stores...even Subway, by 9 and get your 10th free or something.

They all turn me off. I don't want to have to look for a card when I go to the drug store. And, I don't want them keeping a record of all the things I buy. (It might even be used against me in court or something one day..ha ha).

When I see phone companies offer a lower rate for new customers I am curious to see the fine print...to see if it is for 3 months or 12. Loyalty or Conquest promos don't mean much to me either way...they are scamming me somehow...just makes me more cautious.

driver100

BTW, pretty much everybody (very few exceptions) charges here $500+ fee, so as long as you know it and ask before, there is no surprise.

Thanks for the information dino. Well, I was going to make an appointment to try out the Passat, but after a discussion we are leaning toward plan B now. That is, bring the 2008 335 with 36k miles on it down to Florida, and order a 2013 in Canada for Delivery in December.

My wife knows she likes the 2008, it is like new, and it is a bmw. I think she feels a lot safer in it and that is important to her. If she was injured in an accident in the VW I would feel very guilty.

It would be interesting to try the Passat, but I doubt if it will be as enjoyable as the 335.

That $599 or $500+ dealer fee is really annoying, if others can do it for $99 then they all should.

I couldn't find many reviews for Reeves, but the few that were around were positive...I will check them out if we go back to Plan A.

Here is one interesting sales story........

Review of Reeves compared to Kuhns VW

driver100

I hadn't been able to post most of the day--has Edmunds had problems?

Yes! And some problems this morning too.

jmonroe

also a mailer for a $25 gas card for test driving a Hyundai. So might be seeing what a Santa Fe feels like too!

How about if I give you 25 bucks not to. Either that or ‘fez’ tells me where you live and then you get a punch in the nose. How’s that for a teaser? :mad:

jmonroe

graphicguy

jipster....I'd roll with that $9K offer. Write a check for the $9K. Give it to the SM. Ask him for the title and the keys. If he tries to bump you, thank him for his time and head for the door (after grabbing your check back and tearing it up before you leave :P ).

stickguy

Hey, I didn't say I was buying one. So look at it as my little way to stick it to Hyundai for $25!

and for Driver, it is making me cry just to think about such a nice car sitting in the garage for months at a time.

stickguy

the Hyundai comment reminds me of one of the reasons I let the dealer do the routine maintenance on my hondas. Since I wasn't doing the oil changes myself, I wanted to make sure that the dealer was the only ones touching it. that way if there was a problem, they couldn't weasle out of it claiming service wasn't done appropriately!

that went double for my Odyssey. With the problems they have had with transmissions on those, I let the dealer do trans fluid changes every 30K (not sure if it is even called for at all), so if that sucker craps out, I want to have plenty of ammo to shoot at Honda to take care of it!

driver100

and for Driver, it is making me cry just to think about such a nice car sitting in the garage for months at a time.

Don't cry....fezo is going to be very happy!

jmonroe

Cable companies give new customers low payments for a limited time. It happens with newspaper subscriptions a lot.
Happens for cell phone companies.

Since you said you like XM, like I do, don’t forget that you can get the so called one year XM Win-back renewal plan which is/was $77 for the year but all in with music royalty fee, taxes, etc. it’s something like $91 but that’s still better than the $180 for the regular price. However, when that expires, like I’ve said before, once you say you aren’t signing up for the normal renewal at the end of that plan they give you the same reduced rate. At least they have for me with the Genny.

The Subie came with 4 months free XM (the Genny had a year) which should be expiring next month since I purchased it on the Saturday after Thanksgiving 2011. Mrs. j has said several times already that she doesn’t want it on her car and can’t understand why I want it on mine but since it’s my car I make that call. Now for the interesting part. I do the driving of her car when we’re both in the car, which is all the time because I don’t want to mile up the Genny any more than I have to and I want XM. So, I have some work to do about that. Because she doesn’t like to drive when I’m in the car and never has I’m thinking of saying, “OK, if you don’t renew XM, I’m not driving and I’m not going to mile up the Genny either, so get that thought out of your head right now”. I’ll have to think that over a little more. The last time I tried something like that I had to employ my rope-a-dope technique.

jmonroe

dino001

I had a typo in my post that changed the intended meaning of one of the sentences. Reeves does NOT claim to be lowest price in their ads. However, they are still low enough and many other guys claim to be low, but often jack up the values on the other end of the transaction. Reeves doesn't do that - only a standard extended warranty F&I (GAP, LoJack, etc.) session that you can easily decline.

roadburner

BMW was offering a loyalty bonus a few months ago, but you had to own a 2005 or newer BMW in order to qualify.
I guess I'm not loyal enough, having only owned nine over the past 29 years- and with three of said 29 currently in the garage... :mad:

stickguy

I am actually going to drop 1 of my XM subscriptions (currently have 3, 1 of which left with my Accord since it was built in). Was thinking about adding a portable in the Volvo, but thee is not a great place to put it. And my daughter actually prefers FM (go figure!). I did hook up my iPod (an aux in jack is a nice feature), so I can use that.

So, will save the ~$11/month. I mostly drive real short hops, so I can deal with the commercials. And when we take the car on a trip, I can use the iPod, or snag the unit out of my wife's van. I have all the spare parts (antennae, cradle, power supply) to create a set up in the new car. Everything but the unit to plug in (and pretty sure one of the cradles goes with that unit). So when I need it, I will have it.

jipster

If you didn’t cheap out when you were doing your second book...

I offered Stephen King my Edmunds t-shirt to do the forward... and he took the deal. Guess I "cheaped out" again.

Well, I'm getting ready to send in another offer. Part of me is hoping they say "no", so I don't have to depart with with my cash.

The original owner was supposedly a "med student" "female" who had the accident around the second year of ownership. So should be good there. Though I will hit the "accidents depreciate value of cars" button very hard.

tjc78

Loyalty "rebates" are nothing but marketing schemes. They know that only "X" number of people will qualify. That limits the exposure and bumps up the profit.

Its not much different that the mail in rebates we all see on things. I would love to know they percentage that don't get redeemed. I would bet that its over 50%.

RE: XM. I'm on the fence whether or not to renew it in the Buick. The 90 day ran out, and then a few days later they activated a "teaser" for another couple of weeks. It been over a week without it and I'm not sure I miss it. My Fiance has it in the Elantra and uses it all the time so the cost is low to add another receiver. What I have found is without XM I listen to the 1500 or so songs I have on my thumb drive in the USB port. If I get bored of those I have another 5000 or so I could load onto another thumb drive.

cdnpinhead

He sweated me out for a couple days. Called yesterday and says my offer is what they have in the car $8,200. . .

Now I could be missing something here, but as I recall, the method is to make an offer and walk away if the seller won't take it. I use the same method, though I haven't patented it as you have, and have had pretty good success.

He didn't take your offer.

Walk away.

stickguy

I have about 2,500 on the ipod I tossed in the car. But, thee is a variety on XM I don't have, plus a good way to hear new stuff. Not to mention MLB, traffic, talk, and various other stuff.

the other hassle of the aux port is not being able to see a display, and having to grab the ipod to change songs, etc. only really works for me on a set it and forget it basis.

having actual ipod integration would be a wonderful thing. We have some of that in the van (no display, but the radio controls work the skip function, so I just put it on shuffle, and when a song I don't like comes up, a flick of the thumb and away it goes).

Once I am back to driving "my" car (my daughter officially calls the Volvo "her" car) I will get XM again for myself.

I did get to drop one car from the insurance. Was even free to have the spare, since if it is less than 1 month until renewal, Allstate doesn't charge you for the remainder of the current period.

mako1a

1500 or so songs I have on my thumb drive in the USB port.

tjc78, I also have most of my music in MP3 format on thumb drive.

Many of the new cars haven't adapted to USB yet and when the single

ipod jack is all there is, how do you charge your ipod? Mine is actually

a ZEN which works just like ipod, but you have to have the Zen in hand

to change songs. Can the ipod jack be converted to a USB so I have

steering wheel controls for the Zen? Thanks in advance, Dave

driver100

was $77 for the year but all in with music royalty fee, taxes, etc. it’s something like $91 but that’s still better than the $180 for the regular price

I remembered that you said that, and I am going to do it. In Canada, they give new buyers that price if they are new users. So, I may have to let it go, then sign on again....which is the opposite of a "loyalty" discount.

I haven't used the regular radio since I have had XM.

kyfdx

We had a 3-month subscription included with our new Infiniti....

They sent a renewal notice, and it was around $120 for a full year.. but, I didn't want to pay that much... about a week before our three months were up, they called me... We got a six month extension for $35.xx.. that included all fees and taxes....

driver100

Loyalty "rebates" are nothing but marketing schemes. They know that only "X" number of people will qualify.

I didn't think of it that way but it is a good point. Limits the number of potential buyers to an amount they can handle....and in that case it is better to keep your current loyal owners.

Its not much different that the mail in rebates we all see on things. I would love to know they percentage that don't get redeemed. I would bet that its over 50%.

I do know regular coupons that appear in the newspaper or a flyer get less than 3% cashed in. Mail in rebates are a lot lower than 50%, I found 14% which sounds about right. Most people procrastinate and then forget about it. Mail in rebates are ridiculous. Once they had pens at Staples and if you mailed in the rebate they would have lost money on the pen...I guess they knew only 14% would get sent in.

driver100

.. We got a six month extension for $35.xx.. that included all fees and taxes

What a savings....I am going to play hardball when the renewal comes up in November.

Homey can play that game too!

BTW I keep getting bounced out of sales frontlines and have to go out and get back using some clever means. If things don't get better I'll have to play hardball when my membership dues deadline comes up.

jipster

He didn't take your offer.

Walk away.

He didn't and we did. :surprise:

We started at $8,900 out the door. Said we were all in at $9,100. Salesmen went back to salesmanager a couple times. Blah blah blah used cars are selling for more because new car sales are down. They were at $9,900 out the door.

I called prior owner, she said serviced regularly. Said front bumper and hood damage, with headlight in slow collisiion on ice . Mostly "cosmetic". So, more extensive than a minor bumper touch up dealer was saying.

Sorry to let you all down. I know how much you all look up to the ole jipster. Must be losing my touch. The dealerhsip may call back. If not, I'm in no hurry. I'll wait, after all, ... that's what the Jipst method is all about. :shades:

"There will be no joy in Mudville.... for mighty Jipster... has struck out."

tjc78

Dave, they sell car chargers that plug into the lighter socket for just about everything.

This may be just what you need Charger on Amazon

Not quite sure if this is exact model but will help you get the idea.

driver100

used cars are selling for more because new car sales are down.

Used cars do seem to be a priced pretty high. Especially the cars the grifters were selling down the street. They had high prices on them for cars that weren't even fixed up.

I don't think you failed at all.......you stuck it out and you didn't lose. The dealer thinks they can get more for the car...they might and they might not. But, you don't have to play their game. It might be worth checking to see if the car is around in a few weeks from now.

fezo

I have 13,000 songs on my iPod.

I'm still adding....

Well, we have a date. March 19. They put me in the hospital and cut me up the first day. Oddly, no cutting for the transplant or anything. This is to put in a catheter they need. I assume it will be like when they put in my port - they knock you out and you wake up with the thing in there. Then they start chemo to knock out the old marrow right away. There goes my hair. If they want it for wig material they can have it. Otherwise I'll give the younger girls my ponytail and let the barber in there shave my head to avoid waiting that out.

Turns out I am a clinical trial of 52 patients. Not the first time I've been a guinea pig. They give me paperwork with this that lists about 8 ways this could kill me but that is stuff they have to say. That part ain't happening, folks.

My donor is identified only as a 57 year old American male. If he can't do it for some reason the backup is a guy from outside the US about the same age. The backup to the backup is a woman that I know nothing about because one of those first two will work. The way they treat this is how I'd want it. The donor and I can't know each other for a year. After that if we both want it then we can. Their reasoning, which I already had decided on independently for the same reason, is that after a year I'm out of the woods. Wouldn't want to go meet the guy and then have it go terribly wrong.

I'll change blood types! I'm AB+ but the donor (either guy) is O+. As the new marrow starts producing it will be O+. It will also have his DNA even though everything else will have my regular old DNA. Amazing.

Kirstie_H

Our local Walgreens has USB chargers for cigarette lighter ports for $5.

Kirstie_H

Must be nice to finally have a date, instead of all the waiting, as scary as it is. We'll certainly be thinking about you around here!

Very interesting about the blood type change, too.

driver100

Good luck with everything. That is an incredible experience and it is miraculous what they can do these days.

Thanks for sharing what will happen, I keep thinking of the amazing times we live in....and countries we live in, that allows the medical people to do such amazing things.

We have lots to be thankful for.

driver100

. We got a six month extension for $35.xx.. that included all fees and taxes....

That would be a great price, and I will try my best to hold out for that deal.
I didn't think I needed satelite radio, but now they have me hooked. They are smart to offer it for free for a period of time, it is hard to do without it once you have had it....guess they learned their marketing from drug pushers.

jipster

might be worth checking to see if the car is around in a few weeks from now

True. The car has been on the dealership lot for only 20 days, so they may be hoping to get more out of it. It's a nice one owner with decent miles, I would do the same. But we, Mrs. Jip and I, sat at the salesmen desk willing to pay cash (had a briefcase of small bills)... so may come back to haunt them.

Observations:

1) Does anyone really get much out of Craigslist? In doing my car search it looks to be nothing but a place for dealerships to advertise. Looks to be about 85% car ads from dealerships. Often the same car listed multiple times. I thought fairly useless in looking for used cars.

2) There seems to be very little in the market for 2007-2008 cars with average miles. The ones they have are usually "miled" up pretty good. I stayed with the big dealerships in the area, and away from the smaller independents.

3) A lot of cars off leases and rentals. Very few one owners.

4) That 112 point safety inspection dealerships do for your peace of mind? A big money maker. I asked for the Nissan Sentra's maintence records printed out yesterday. On it was the 112 point inspection the dealership did. It was billed at 1.2 hours at $79 an hour. So about $100. Don't know but if it's like billed work for repairs, it can probably be done in 30 minutes.

nyccarguy

Good luck my friend!

jipster

More Observations:

5) The dealership turned rotors, put on front disc pads, cleaned rear brakes of dust, brake light, oil change, and put on new windshield wipers, something else minor... for around 400 bucks. So out of that 500 bucks total $98 was parts. All priced and marked up with the usual high dealership profit margin.

It's been argued many times here on reconditioning fees. But to me that's double dipping. Adding a high profit repair bill on a car that in turn will command a higher profit. Would have been better off, on buying the Sentra, if it had no reconditioning, as I could have jmonroe do the work for a 6 pack of beer.

6) Called the prior owner. Kind of regret not asking her how much she took at trade in for Sentra. Though she could have taken less to give less for her new car.

7) Salesmen were nice. Low pressure. No attitude. Said they were non commission. So I guess that means hourly... or a flat fee on each vehicle they sell?

Kirstie_H

Jip, once you're on the autos for sale page on craigslist, you can use a drop-down menu at the top of the page to filter "by owner" or "by dealership" only, or both.

I found my last vehicle on craigslist (by dealer), BUT... I had already narrowed down to a make/model and price range, so I was able to filter out a lot. In order for craigslist to be useful for vehicle shopping, you really do need to filter by a few criteria or you'll just get a bunch of multiple listings and other garbage.

jipster

Jip, once you're on the autos for sale page on craigslist, you can use a drop-down menu at the top of the page to filter "by owner" or "by dealership" only, or both.

Oops.

Thanks. I'll take another look.