Stories from the Sales Frontlines

fezo

So you're telling me I'm inheriting a dented Passat?

abacomike

I think you are taking me too seriously. I am just joking around. I happen to be lucky that I live in a retirement community (taking care of my dad in his old age) where the average age is DECEASED, if you know what I mean. So there aren't too many drivers, and those who do drive don't live anywhere near me.

Last week, a 92 year old women hit a tree 200 feet from the main road here. Two weeks ago, an 88 year old man forgot where he was and drove right into the swimming pool at the club house. So the danger here is not parking, it's dodging moving vehicles.

LOL

fezo

Ah! So we are also waiting for your first rinse.....

driver100

So you're telling me I'm inheriting a dented Passat?

No, but, if you play your cards right you may inherit a silver Mercedes E Class.

driver100

. I happen to be lucky that I live in a retirement community

Actually, when we stay in Florida I am always amazed at the number of cars that either go through a door or a window every week. This almost always happens a few times a week. This year there was one that went into a Publix store and she driove almost to the back of the store.

You can watch it here;
Woman drives right through a Publix Store

When you live in Florida, getting dents is a minor problem.

snakeweasel

Better yet just get a bunch of old tires and hang them around your car just like tug boats do.

abacomike

Yes! In the one you posted, she also took out a baby in a stroller. I just do not understand why the State of Florida doesn't require driving tests for people 80 years of age of older. People are living so much longer now, but they can't see, hear, walk, urinate or cook, but they can drive a car.

Also, this State is awash with drivers who do not carry insurance. That's why I carry 250-500 thousand uninsured motorist on my policy.

abacomike

If I surrounded the car with hanging tires here in this condo community, I'm sure several couples would walk over to the car and ask, "...So when does our cruise leave, captain?"

abacomike

As I mentioned, I was in the car business for about 10 years after retiring from educational administration. I know a tremendous amount about pricing, negotiating and selecting new automobiles, especially luxury models. I'm well versed in BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti and Audi. I'd be more than happy to assist if I can be of any help!

bolivar

I want a 335i BMW from BMW of Tulsa really, really cheap.

abacomike

First, look up the precise invoice of your 335i with all options here on Edmonds. Then look click on "incentives" to determine if they are offering cash back, special APR from BMW Financial. Subtract any cash incentives from the invoice. If you are purchasing, come up with your downpayment to determine what your loan will be.

Next, go to the dealership and offer them that price determined above (invoice less any incentives). If leasing, determine what BMW's money factor is. You can call or visit several BMW dealerships to get that info. You offer them the same deal (invoice less any incentives) as the final CAP COST as shown on a lease contract.

All they can say is yes or no. BMW has quite a bit of HOLDBACK on their vehicles. I've found that many buyers and lessees get a deal at or below invoice. All depends on the dealer's inventory (the larger the inventory, the more likely you will get your price). Also, shop more than one dealer.

I hope this was helpful.

abacomike

I just checked, and their incentives are not great. If you are a USAA member, like me, you can get one for $1500 under invoice along with another $1000 off if you finance with USAA BANK. You get these prices through their car buying service.

To become a member of USAA, you or a sibling, or a parent must be an active or retired service member. My dad is a veteran, so I became a member after he joined. I get my cars (Mercedes E350's) for $2000 under dealer invoice. The amount below invoice is deteined by the make of the vehicle.

driver100

I know a tremendous amount about pricing, negotiating and selecting new automobiles

I hope you stick around aba....we might need your expertise around here. And we could use a good sales story if you happen to have any. We seem to have lost all our actual salespeople somewhere along the way.

jmonroe

We seem to have lost all our actual salespeople somewhere along the way.

Who needs em? We’re a bunch of know-it-alls by now anyway. The last real salesman we had in here retired then went back to selling. I hear it is now Kia’s but he’d never admit to that.

‘aba’…to stay on topic. Mrs. jmonroe’s Legacy with less than 1800 miles on it (about a month ago) had the right front fender walloped in a parking lot then two weeks later the windshield was broken. According to the glass replacement guy it was hit by a stone in the wiper area, so that stone just missed the hood. :surprise: Stick around we might be able to teach you a thing or two about cars, dishwashers, remodeling, lawnmowers, best price for satellite radio packages, etc. The only topic that I don’t think we’ve ever been on is how to find a good dentist. Maybe at your age and past employment working for car dealerships you don’t need one (either fell out or were knocked out). :shades:

jmonroe

abacomike

First of all, let me let you all know where I stand: "I hate new and used car dealers, salesman, managers, and dealer owners!".

Now that I got that off my chest, you need to remember that I spent over 30 years as a school administrator - you know - love apple pie, kids, cars, but can't stand incompetent teachers. No matter how much documentation you have on them, the union protects them, even though the union knows those incompetent teachers are ruining the lives of children. That's why I retired early. It was a fluke that I got hired as a salesman, and only 2 years later I was running dealerships. Made more money in the car business than I ever made in education.

I was a rare breed - I never, ever lied to customers, fired many salespeople who tried to deceive my customers, and then quit after the owner of the dealership made me lie to a customer - it's either lie or you're done here! So I beat him to the punch and quit.

So I am on a mission to ensure that peons like us here on the forums "get as much out of the new car dealers as possible. Beware of money factors on leases - finance people love to jack those numbers up. Be aware of incentives, rebates, invoices (both factory and dealer and the differences between them), etc.

So, there you have it.

Kirstie_H

Members who hang out here are pretty savvy, but help is always appreciated. Elsewhere in the forums, as I'm sure you've noticed, there are consumers who could definitely use your advice.

When there's a youngster looking for vehicle purchasing advice, I often post a link to that discussion here so that some of our members can jump over and give opinions. This group has so many old life-experienced people, which is often who the youthful buyers need to hear from.

abacomike

SOUNDS LIKE YOU JUST GAVE ME THE "BRUSH"!

OK, SEE YOU ALL AROUND SOMETIME. NOT WANTED HERE!

Kirstie_H

What? No, not at all! I'm sorry you took it that way. I should have started out by saying, "welcome!"

Any help at all is appreciated, and we'd love to have you stick around. What I was intending to suggest, which obviously didn't come across, was that if you stick around here, you may occasionally see me post a link to another discussion with a note saying "can you guys help this kid?" and that it'd be great to have you on board for those occasions too.

oldfarmer50

"...I am just joking around..."

There is NO joking when talking about cars. This is serious business. Most of the posters here are obsessed with one thing or another.

We have one poster who waxes his car every 15 minutes using some exotic telephone pole insulator cleaner. Another changes his oil so often that he had to drill his own well. Still another wrote a book about how he brings sandwiches and a sleeping bag to negotiate car deals.

Me, I'm like you about dents on my new rides. A scratch will send me to bed in deep depression for days. :sick:

imidazol97

Welcome to the discussion.

>...but can't stand incompetent teachers. No matter how much documentation you have on them, the union protects them, even though the union knows those incompetent teachers are ruining the lives of children.

I just cannot let this pass. It sounds like something Sharpton or Limbaugh would use in a generalization to smear all members of a group. My wife is a retired teacher. Your generalization doesn't apply in Ohio teaching circles. Schools here regularly let teachers go, even those with the terrible "tenure" that such types of politicians love to smear are let go. All the _administration_ has to do is establish one of several problematic areas and then procede through the steps. Indeed, my wife taught in 30 years with her BA and MA Special in Reading under more incompetent principals who seem to move up by the Peter Principle rather than by true efficacy in education. In fact, she applied for a transfer between elementary buildings within our district to get away from one such old geezer (who later was convicted in retirement of telephone sexual harrassment of young and old ladies, including staff members). I am sure the only reason she got it is I started showing up at every school board meeting. I happened to have met the president of the teachers association (not union) at a conference in the area, and I sat next to him at every meeting. I could see the board members were very interested in who was sitting next to the association president: the sign in clipboard that goes around to document the audience at the meeting for the official record got checked as soon as the meeting was over. She got her transfer mandated by the agreement between the teachers and the school district.

In fact, I have commented to my Ohio representive about the problem with school administrators in our district several times. When I go into a restaurant and the staff does not properly do things, I blame the training from their manager. When a school head principal can't even be recognized when he went out in the hallway by the 1500 kids in his building because he spent the days in his office running the sports program and being important with the Ohio high school athletic association an hour away in Columbus, I have a problem with how our $150,000 is being spent.

I defend teachers because I know many who were and are in my wife's circle of friends now that she has retired on a well-deserved retirement plan. They all, all are primarily interested in their kids' advancement a welfare. My wife has called social services or invoked help for students who needed help.

So lest someone thinks I just am posted in a different opinion,
>I was a rare breed - I never, ever lied to customers, fired many salespeople who tried to deceive my customers, and then quit a

I certainly have to admire someone today, in politics or business, who stands up what is right. I applaud you for that value sytem.

oldfarmer50

"...life experienced people..."

LOL! I love that. I'm going to start using that one.

Almost as good as "Average age DECEASED".

imidazol97

>Almost as good as "Average age DECEASED".

The "Average age DECEASED" got my laugh of the day award.

Of course, for those of us over 39 40, well okay, 50, it's sort of like getting a birthday card with a picture of a cemetary and a commentary about how yet another birthday added to the many is better than the alternative. Yes, I really got one of those!

oldfarmer50

I hope you didn't take the snow tires off the Genny yet. 18 inches of snow in western PA predicted? Yikes! :surprise:

abacomike

IF YOU LOOK AGAIN AT MY POST, I MENTIONED NOTHING ABOUT COMPETENT, OR GOOD, OR EXCELLENT TEACHERS. I SAID "INCOMPETENT" TEACHERS.

PLEASE RE-READ MY POST.

I WAS A TEACHER FOR 10 YEARS - A GREAT TEACHER - AND I WAS PROMOTED FOR MY HARD WORK.

IT IS INCOMPETENT TEACHERS - I'VE TRIED MANY TIMES TO GET THEM REMOVED FROM THE CLASSROOM, BUT THE UNION AND LAWYERS MAKE IT SO DIFFICULT, IT ISN'T WORTH THE STRESS.

THAT'S WHY I GOT OUT OF EDUCATION. IT WASN'T THE GOOD TEACHERS, IT WAS THE INCOMPETENT ONES. I WAS JUST ONE OF MANY ADMINISTRATORS WHO TRIED TO GET RID OF THREE INCOMPETENT TEACHERS, AND EVERY TIME WE TRIED, WE CAME UP AGAINST A BRICK WALL.

So please reread my post.

abacomike

You also have to remember that Ohio and a few other states are exceptions. And I left the public school business in 1989 when I went into Private School Administration in California. There, I hired and fired as I wished.

As for documenting, following the steps and procedures, with our own school district attornneys, we could never get enough to satisfy the union.

It was the fault of the first principal who hired these people. Two of them were over 60 years old and one was in her 30's. The 60 year old teachers I mention here refused to write lesson plans for me, even though required, and found out when we took it to court, they were not required to write lesson plans or keep a lesson plan book. So the courts did not uphold the district policies, even though one would think writing lesson plans has something to do with proper planning and following curriculum guidelines.

The younger teacher would abuse the children "psychologically". Call them out by name and how poorly they do in class and that it was their parent's fault.

The courts said she has the right to express her points of view publicly.

After these three court cases, I decided private schools were better. And they were. No incompetents there - we don't renew their contracts if they do not perform well.

Sorry for being angry at your post, but remember, there are circumstances you do not understand and high priced lawyers hired by the teachers union to make sure teachers are not fired or that their tenure is not taken from them.

I worked in Illinoins, and if you know anything about Illinois and its politics when it comes to teachers and unions, you would understand where I am coming from.

jmonroe

I WAS A TEACHER FOR 10 YEARS - A GREAT TEACHER - AND I WAS PROMOTED FOR MY HARD WORK.

We have an old poster buddy in here who was also a teacher then went on to administration and now he’s retired. It’s going to be fun watching you two guys comparing notes. So, please stick around. He’s probably out doing some final work on the mansion he’s about to buy.

jmonroe

snakeweasel

Sounds like the Bobst method here.

jmonroe

I hope you didn't take the snow tires off the Genny yet. 18 inches of snow in western PA predicted? Yikes!

You know damn well I took them off 2 weeks ago today because I said so right here. I’m not buying that 18 inches stuff. I haven’t heard any prognostications even close to that. If somehow we actually do get an accumulation that would be a good reason to take Mrs. j’s AWD Subie out for a spin. OK, bad choice of words. If I spin it into something I’ll be doing all of my posting left handed.

Now about the waxing and oil change stuff. I’m not going to change my schedule with doing that. The oil thing would have been OK if I knew how to make correct entries on a log sheet. :mad: I always said I wasn’t too good at keeping numbers in a nice straight column. Even had my check book privileges taken away from me because of that. Formulas all over a sheet of paper no problems with that. Nice neat columns, that ain’t my bag. If I was good at the column stuff I would have gone into accounting. :sick:

jmonroe

28firefighter

JMonroe-

Hope you ran out and got your eggs, bread, milk and toilet paper! I know I did!

My snow tires have been off since April 1. *Facepalm*

abacomike

There is a channel on cable (DFH - HEALYH & FITNESS I believe) that highlights positive AND negative health and fitness issues, i.e. "my wife at herself to death" or "my son fell in love with his big toe" and other disgusting topics like "the weirdest emergency room patients".

I saw one show (yes I admit I am attracted to weirdness in others) where this guy is in love with his car. So, being this great psychoanalyst, I looked inside myself to determine if it was love or merely a fetish or flourish that I want to protect "her" from ping dents, scrapes, scratches and bird turds. So I began to look at this pragmatically:

Do I want to take her everywhere I go?
Do I want to protect her from harm and mayhem?
Do I want to take her to bed with me?
Do I want her to have my children?

I then tried to logically and emotionally answer these questions. I was able, by careful analysis, to determine that my problem is not as serious as I once thought! I could only answer yes to one of these questions, and I'M NOT GOING TO PUBLICLY ANNOUNCE WHICH QUESTION I ANSWERED YES TO!

Kirstie_H

Well, I think one of the first signs that you *may* have a problem is when you have clearly determined the gender of your vehicle. :P

abacomike

WITHOUT ANY DOUBT!

jmonroe

I'M NOT GOING TO PUBLICLY ANNOUNCE WHICH QUESTION I ANSWERED YES TO!

We've seen your kind here before. I say it's the last one but others in here have been known to disagree with me. So, since you've opened the door...lets see if you can close it.

jmonroe

abacomike

Good guess! But no, not have my children! I wonder if I can find a furniture manufacturer who makes custom beds for garages? Know where I can find one?

driver100

The only topic that I don’t think we’ve ever been on is how to find a good dentist.

Just so no one can say we haven't covered all topics, here is what happened to me, so others can watch for it....and not just with dentists.

I had an excellent dentist for about 25 years. He was getting ready to retire so he sold his practice to new guys....my original dentist did stay on for a few years while the new guys settled in.

The new guys tried to sell me all kinds of services, I should have whitening, veneers, special tooth paste, new crowns, bonding....he even had a special office built with a salesperson who sold you stuff.

I ran and got a new dentist who only does what really has to be done, he said he never sells you stuff. If he really thinks something would help he will mention it and let me decide, and that is what he does.

Here is the lesson from my "life experience"; When a new person or company takes over be extra careful. Things may change. The original guy built up his clientel by being very good, the new guys might just want to charge more to pay off their debt, from buying. I know this happens with car dealerships too....I have seen it happen.

fezo

He's got his father's eyes and his mother's fuel injectors.....

Well, a bit of good news on a related front in addition to the general positive direction on healing - Social Security came through! I am now officially disabled and collecting a nice check starting tomorrow. I have never seen SS act so quickly. I must really be sick....

I can still make enough in a month to be an Edmunds host without endangering my disability. Just wait until I'm home....

driver100

I spent over 30 years as a school administrator

Wait until you and Richard meet...it will be like homecoming week!

No matter how much documentation you have on them, the union protects them

That's one reason Iquit teaching (I am in Canada). I do a lot of extra work for the kids spending evenings making up lessons, and the lady down the hall gives the kids busy work all day....and got away with it because she was related to a star athlete in town.
Ever since then I don't have much patience for unions, or pay scales.

So I am on a mission to ensure that peons like us here on the forums "get as much out of the new car dealers as possible.

People are getting tired of me mentioning the "Passat" we might buy for a car to leave in Florida for the 3 or 4 months we plan to be there. IF YOU ARE TIRED ABOUT HEARING ABOUT THE PASSAT, PLEASE SKIP TO THE NEXT POST. We won't be buying until approximately August. We want a manual model so they will be hard to find, and it has to be the right colors for my wife....looks like white exterior with moonrock which is a light gray interior. These will be hard to find so we may order a 2013. Do you think we will pay much more to order a 2013 or will we be better off trying to find a 2012 in November? I have a feeling we won't be able to find any 12s left. I was thinking they seem to discount the car we want about $1000, so we could order a 2013 and take that $1000 off the model we would want. Any ideas on strategy or thoughts at all about doing this?

fezo

You're leaving me a white car? Oh well. Beggars can't be choosers....

abacomike

It's usually a good idea to find out who owns the dealership you might be getting a car from. The general manager runs the dealership, but the dealer principal is who the general manager reports to.

Down here in Florida, Autonation (largest dealership organization in the country) owns about 60 dealerships under different names, the biggest of which is Maroone (30 stores in Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach Counties). Let's say you are looking for a Toyota or even a Mercedes. Autonation owns Mercedes of Pompano, Coconut Creek, Delray, Miami, Ft. Lauderdale and Pembroke Pines. Once you negotiate a deal with one of them, everything about that deal is on computer and is accessible by all the Autonation dealerships. My point is that when dealing with large automobile dealership organizations like Autonation, Longo, Holman, Penske and the like, your dealings with the management of these dealerships is impersonal. On the other hand, dealerships owned and operated by dealer principals (majority shareholders) tend to be more concerned about their clientele and respond more informally.

Unfortunately, there are fewer and fewer dealerships of the latter and more and more of the former. In my experiences in this business from a management standpoint, you will always get your best price on a new vehicle from the largest of the competing dealerships - however you usually have to give up that informality and one-on-one service and care.

Here in South Florida, the biggest BMW dealership in the country is here in Coconut Creek (Vista), biggest Infiniti dealership (Infiniti of Coconut Creek), biggest Lexus dealership (JM Lexus), biggest VW dealership (Gunther VW) just to name a few. Large organizations with poor public relations skills with customers, with rare exception (Gunther VW).

So, when buying or leasing a new car, do you want the best price or the best relationship? I'm lucky in that I know these dealerships and get the best pricing and relationships because of my reputation. Not so for most, unfortunately.

abacomike

Kind of late to in the year to ...get your cake and eat it too! I would suggest that you make a deal with a Florida dealership (if in Broward, Palm Beach or Miami-Dade counties, go to Gunther in Coconut Creek - outstanding) and order your 2012 just the way you want it on the last month they will accept a new car order for a 2012. It should be delivered 45-60 days after they place the order. Then, pay for the car and store it until you get to Florida. The only other possibility would be to take your chances. Very few Passats are ordered with manual transmissions, so finding one in stock will be a challenge, and then you are going to have to be flexible on color and equipment

Best thing to do is order a 2012 or 2013 just the way you want it. There is very little mark-up on VW's which I am sure you already know.

Good luck!

abacomike

I may be a bit crazy, but I'm a realist. Everyone knows a car can't have children, but with the right equipment, you can sleep with her.

I haven't seen a response about my request for a furniture maker who can build a bed strong enough and big enough to accommodate me and my car! Come on guys and gals, I know you've hot a name for me!

jmonroe

But no, not have my children! I wonder if I can find a furniture manufacturer who makes custom beds for garages? Know where I can find one?

Well, if you were in the Pittsburgh area I might be able to help. If all else failed I’ve been known to make some customized furniture in my younger days but I don’t do that any more.

Don’t give up. I have a brother that retired to Delray Beach a few years ago and he has had a few homes down there for more than 30 years, for when he took off to golf and for when his wife played snowbird, so I could ask him.

Like I said before, when our other retired school administrator gets in here it should be interesting.

Welcome aboard.

jmonroe

stickguy

well, as any RV or VW westfalia owner knows, you can sleep IN her!

abacomike

LOL!!! Bye-the-bye, that's where I buy all my cars, Delray Mercedes. Best Mercedes Dealership in South Florida. They are on Linton, just east of I-95. Small world.

As for my bed, I am thinking it might just be more economical for me to just buy a new car after my baby gets her first bruise. A car bed has to cost $10000 or more, custombuilt. And to be quite frank with you, sharing a bed with her could be fatal - she likes to pass gas a lot (carbon monoxide of course). Never could get used to my wife passing gas in bed (may she rest in peace).

Thanks!

mako1a

j, you're not the only one wanting an early spring. Since high winds tore my pool cover to shreds, I decided to open it. Ph all balanced, pretty blue clear water, took pictures and sent them to 15 people that may come to enjoy it with us. Remember it was 78 degrees when I sent this 10 days ago. Now it's going to 30 on Mon night and will require pump running overnight to prevent freezing.

ps, I agree that Richard's return and subsequent postings to aba mike should be good. Popcorn popped...ready to watch.

stickguy

here you go. A slightly older model, but I am sure you can get a newer version.

abacomike

Now that's what I call a bed. That is very funny. Human ingenuity!

Where does the "oil and gas" go?

Got to get me one. Look what I've been missing.

oldfarmer50

"...My snow tires have been off since April 1..."

Oh come on, real men don't need no stinkin' snow tires. :P

I can remember during my field work days (not the fields I'm in today) I drove all over upstate NY visiting all the hospitals. My old 69 Plymouth had a very light back end which made for exciting driving on unplowed roads. Once I was barreling down I-90 in a blizzard and the car started sputtering then died. This was before cell phones so I figured I had to fix things myself.

I took off the air cleaner and found that so much snow had gotten through the snorkel that the carb was filled. I scooped out as much as I could and waited for the residual heat in the motor to dry things out. After a couple of tries it kicked over and I continued on my way fish-tailing all the way home.

abacomike

average age deceased

I got that "age" thing from a funeral I attended last month. During the memorial service, the mourner who was retelling the deceased life story said that living to be 82 was God's gift yo the deceased. The woman sitting next to me mumbled that the deceased was 95 at the time of his death. Someone sitting next to her commented that he must have been deceased these passed 13 years. I then added my two cents worth and said, "everyone knows the average age in our condo development is DECEASED anyway, so no harm done!. 8 mourners around us in the chapel broke out laughing so loudly that the widow, no spring chicken herself, started laughing too. Not a very pretty picture, to be sure.

So every time neighbors see me taking my dad out shopping or taking him for a walk, they recall this unfortunate occurrence.

houdini1

Welcome aboard Abaco. I can tell that you are going to liven things up here quite a bit.

I think Richard is biding his time and trying to figure out if he knows you or not.