Stories from the Sales Frontlines

driver100

I like that Red Baron picture and especially the moving propelor.

However, this is my favorite moving picture on Edmunds;

driver100

Here's an excerpt from a monthly column I write for a local newspaper:

Good article and well written. People over react. My local pharmacist told me has a problem when they show something on 20/20 or 60 Minutes then every one comes in the next day wanting that vitamin or whatever.

I call it the lemming effect....people just follow without questioning.

driver100

As many of us recognize, a VW will likely have significant repair costs.

This is how a $15000 2012 VW Jetta depreciates;
Year 1 Year 2 Year 3 Year 4 Year 5 5 Yr Total
$1,991 $2,036 $1,792 $1,589 $1,426 $8,834

That's not bad. I am sure the Jetta gets more than average repairs, but once again probably not a huge factor in the overall scheme of things. It's almost the same issue as buying a new smaller car because the price of gas has gone up.

My brother bought a Hyundai Accent because it cost him $4000 less than a Honda Civic. He has to use a pillow because the seat adjustment doesn't get him high enough. For me, I would have looked around for a car that I felt comfortable in. If it cost $1000 or $2000 more it's not a big deal when he keeps a car for 10 years.

Same with a VW. If you like the way it feels and looks I wouldn't let depreciation be a big factor in making a decision.

driver100

It's just like ISELLHONDAS says: So many times people would come in to buy a car from him "making excuses" to buy a new car.

Who's this ISELL fellow? (I know....)

Who really needs a new car? Who really needs a new car that is more than an Accent? They all get you from A to B.

You work hard to get the things you want, and hopefully can afford. Enjoy the things you like, life should be lived to the fullest. Have fun!

fezo

My brother bought a Hyundai Accent because it cost him $4000 less than a Honda Civic. He has to use a pillow because the seat adjustment doesn't get him high enough. For me, I would have looked around for a car that I felt comfortable in. If it cost $1000 or $2000 more it's not a big deal when he keeps a car for 10 years.

Helluvan expensive pillow!

You can tell your brother he can skip leaving his car to me.

Been a rough day (mostly a tired day). I could be out of here as early as Sunday but am expecting more like middle of the week.

imidazol97

>Been a rough day (mostly a tired day).

Is that tiredness because you're walking more?

fezo

Actually I almost didn't get out walking because I was that tired.

I had been on ambien earlier in the stay which helped me sleep through the night. They had discontinued that because of other drugs. They'll start me up again on it tonight. That should help.

snakeweasel

I never knew you could only use five.

Nope, just type in the code for them

:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

snakeweasel

Of course there is the stress of wondering whether driver will be leaving me a 3er

Don't worry, I am leaving you a slighty used porch light.

snakeweasel

Good article, but did you take in account the following.

1.) Trading to the newer car would likely mean a few more years before repairs started to need to be done.

2.) Difference in insurance (not sure but I think the mini would cost more to insure).

3.) Difference in the cost of fuel (I'm pretty sure the Mini takes premium, not sure what the Mazda uses).

I would think the combination of the above would extend the time it would take for the Mini to pay for itself.

tjc78

Snake,

That's a great tip. May come in handy sometime. .

roadburner

Thanks. I did take into account insurance costs; both cars use premium, so that's a wash.

snakeweasel

Oh I don't recall seeing insurance in that. I did see the property tax listed (not a factor here) but must have glossed over insurance. Sorry.

The other day in the ragtop we got behind a Miata and I told the wife that for such a smaller car it barely got better gas milage than our Sebring. And the fact it takes premium as opposed to us using RUG really ment gas was a bit less expensive for us.

fezo

Don't worry, I am leaving you a slighty used porch light.

That'll go great on my slightly used porch.

snakeweasel

Well just incase you missed my porch light story all I can say is that it will make a good door stop.

stickguy

since the idea of justifying came up, and I am looking for a replacement for the minivan (and no, not a real need situation!).

Just got back from a trip to the outer banks. Did about 920 miles from sunday-today. Overall, got just about 25 MPG (rounded off).

I did some quick math, and if I had bought a CX-5 already, and it got 32MPG instead, we would have used about 8 fewer gallons. So roughly $30 saved in gas.

In the big scheme of things, not all that much!

imidazol97

Another aspect to the purchase of one car over another is that an advertised EPA rating for mileage may be higher what a real world driver gets in his use of that vehicle. And then the EPA rating for another similar vehicle may be lower than what the same driver gets in the 2nd vehicle.

But yet, people treat those EPA ratings as biblical in nature and will prefer one car over another in forum discussions or in their actual purchase because car A gets 1 more mpg than car B over there in the EPA rating.

The point has been well made here that a few miles per gallon difference in mileage is a minor difference in cost for fuel. And as cars got above 28 or 30 mpg on the leg of the hyperbola of cost per 100 miles vs mpg, that difference becomes less and less. Long, long ago I would meet up with my grad school roommate at the Detroit Auto Show. He drove from Cleveland and pointed out that he got 25 mph in a AMC Eagle or at least it was an American Motors (remember them) vehicle. He said, it doesn't make much difference whether you get 25 or 28 because of the (then) minor difference in cost of fuel.

js06gv

My 07 Santa Fe does 18-20 around town and 23-25 on the highway, so pretty much dead on the EPA figures. Current model might do a bit better with the 3.5L and 6-speed auto. Mine has the 3.3/5A.

jmonroe

Huh. I still see them.

Well, today it’s working but all day yesterday it didn’t work. :confuse: In fact, when I was going to respond to this post yesterday I couldn’t even post at all and I tried several times throughout the day. Then I went home and the same thing happened. Obviously it’s fixed now. I was beginning to think that this was only happening to me and Richard. If that was the case I was going to get the ‘judge‘ to hear our age discrimination suit in his court. You guys were just that close, believe me. :mad:

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

"...pretty much dead on the EPA figures..."

I typically can beat the EPA figures in my cars.

Eclipse--3.8l. EPA hwy 26. actual 29.

PT Crusier--2.5l. EPA hwy 26. Actual 28

Caddy--4.9l. EPA hwy ? Actual 28

Corvette--5.7l EPA hwy ? Actual 25

The big disappointment is the PT which barely gets the milage of older heavier cars with engines twice the size.

oldfarmer50

"...our age discrimination suit in court..."

Well, mine are out today so keep that lawyer's number handy. (insert angry emotorcon here).

driver100

The big disappointment is the PT which barely gets the milage of older heavier cars with engines twice the size.

The 535 with 300 hp gets 30 mpg! :P (it worked I think - better get your membership dues paid) I tested it on preview and it didn't work so I had to do it the hard way.

jmonroe

Well, mine are out today so keep that lawyer's number handy. (insert angry emotorcon here).

Don't get so crabby. At least you can post. Yesterday I couldn't even do that. :sick:

BTW, has anyone else noticed that the speed of this site is better now? That might be a bad thing though. I can almost hear it now..."due to improvements, we are happy to inform you that our dues have just increased". :sick:

jmonroe

jmonroe

Who really needs a new car? Who really needs a new car that is more than an Accent? They all get you from A to B.

That is very true. Back in ’09 Son #1 felt I should get a Genny because he had read quite a few good reviews about it. I told him we didn’t need a car but he kept after me to go test drive one. Finally, we had a conversation like this:

Me: Yeah, and if I like it then what?

He paused for a second.

Son #1: Well don’t tell Mom you NEED it that’s for sure because there is no way anyone NEEDS an upscale car. Do what you always do. Stick to your guns, like when you want to buy a tool that costs a couple hundred dollars. You always seem to pull that off don’t ya?

Me: Spending hundreds is not the same as spending thousands. Have you forgotten that she wants new dining room furniture? I’ve been telling her we don’t need it and so far I think I’m winning that battle. So, you know what she’s going to say about me getting a car like that especially since we aren’t even close to needing a car right now.

Another pause.

Son #1: You can do it. I know you can.

He was right. I just had to convince her that it was her idea and she deserved it.

jmonroe

Kirstie_H

I ended up seeing the issue too, took a screenshot and sent it in. It's linked to browser versions. For whatever reason, older browsers can see everything, but newer ones can't. They're working on it. (I still can't see tools or emotorcons.)

sterlingdog

Well, no emotorcons for me today either. Guess I'll have to use my imagination. (Insert pissed off here.) As for speed, I can't tell a real difference, even though my server updated me last month to give more speed. I can tell a difference on all sites except this one. Perhaps Edmunds erred on the books and didn't give me credit for dues paid this year. (Insert sick here.)

Richard

Kirstie_H

A reporter wonders about Chevy's reputation abroad. If you did not grow up in the US, email pr@edmunds.com by 4pm Eastern today, April 13, 2012, to share your thoughts on Chevy's reputation back home.

jmonroe

I ended up seeing the issue too, took a screenshot and sent it in.

(I still can't see tools or emotorcons.)

Damn…you might be able to file an employee discrimination suit.

Talk to the ‘judge’ he’s looking for court room hours so that he can be fully retired. :surprise:

jmonroe

stickguy

I believe this has been covered before, but I don't remember the details.

A friend called to ask for advice. Her father passed away a few months back, and left behind a leased car (altima) that they have no need for, but don't know what to do with.

what are the best options? I assume if they just drop it at a dealer with the keys and tell the lease company to come get it, there will be implications with the lease company going after the estate? Or does the death somehow change things?

If they are still on the hook for the payments (the estate?), I assume the best way to get rid of it is to simply sell it, and pay the lease off (same as anyone trading in or selling a leased car), and eating the likely shortage?

I suppose something like swap lease could be an option, though that will depend on what the lease company thinks about it!

anyway, any advice appreciated.

nyccarguy

Stickguy

My grandfather died a few months ago. At the time he was leasing a 2010 Honda Odyssey. Now obviously all leasing companies are different. Some do have a death clause, American Honda Finance does not. I'll tell you what we did:

My Mom went to the selling dealership and dropped off the car. Honda Finance picked up the car and treated it as a voluntary reposession (kinda like if you were leasing and couldn't afford the payments). They sent the vehicle to auction. The repo guy at Honda Finance explained to us that the estate would be liable for whatever the auction sale didn't cover, which was X months worth of lease payments + the stated residual value. If there's no estate, then Honda finance would just eat the difference and not go after any of the heirs.

If there are any co-leassors on the lease agreement, then they are responsible for the lease payments.

How much time is left on the lease? What kind of condition is the car in?

Maybe they could just take it to carmax or even a nissan dealer and try to get a straight buy bid. That might pay off the lease.

stickguy

oh yeah, now I remember where I heard this story!

Just talked to my friend. It is a 2011 ALtima, all loaded up. Next to no miles (bought late summer, her dad got sick right after, and passed away in December). mostly been sitting since he died.

she talked to Nissan finance, and got same story as Honda gave you. They will auction it and send a bill. But, considering the payoff (I assume residual + all payments) is ~ 25K, so given what they are firesaling new ones for, they are probably going to get what, 18K max?

Doing the math, the payment is about $330/mo (ouch!). 24 or so left. So 24x330 = $7980. so call it 8K to keep the car for 2 years.

at a 25K payoff, if real world auction is 18K or less, it is actually going to cost nearly as much if not more to give it back. IOW, you could just drive it for free.

they are going to try a swap lease type of deal, but Nissan said that to do that, you have to stay on the lease as a 2ndary payer. So that kind of takes away the allure! They are also going to try and just sell it outright, to see what they can get.

But, assuming the selling price is going to require a significant outlay of cash to cover the difference, they may just figure out a way to keep it (4 siblings). I said look at it as $80/mo per kid, and you each get to use it for 3 months/year!

tjc78

Stick,
Tell them to get a hold of Autolenders. (are they in our neck of the woods?). They can negotiate the buyout and typically sell their cars a little higher than most dealers so they may be able to make something happen.

driver100

Stick,
Tell them to get a hold of Autolenders.

Or Leasebusters type company.

I am sure you won't come out ahead of the game, but at least you (person with the car) won't be liable for the difference between what they get for the car at auction (which will be very little) and what is still owing on the car.

stickguy

good idea. I forgot about autolenders.

They live down near Harrison, so not a problem.

I will suggest that. Sounds like a perfect car for them to overprice!

explorerx4

How would you keep the car insured until the lease runs out?

sterlingdog

"How would you keep the car insured..."

If you have the Power of Attorney or if you are Executor/Executrix of the Estate, you can do most anything.

Richard

driver100

Just, some comments about dishwashers. Two guys came and installed the dishwasher...I am pretty sure they are contracted by Best Buy.
They came in and said I had bought the 2nd best dishwasher there is. I asked what the 1st was and they said Fisher Paykal.
But, they said dishwashers last 5 to 7 years, so there isn't much point in paying $3000, because a $3k machine won't last any longer than a $500 one.
The old Maytag was 6 years old.
A lot of dishwashers start leaking around the 6 year mark. Ours was leaking and the electrical was arcing, so they said it was a good time to get a new one.
They liked the extended warranty idea, $30 a year to guaranty 5 years use.
They strongly suggest using the pellets for the soap. They don't gum up the door and you are supposed to keep the powder chemical off the stainless steel.
Jet Dry stuff is a necessity, it helps dry, but it also unclogs the little holes in the arms.

This model tells you when the rinse agent stuff needs to be refilled - a very nice feature.

It is extremely quiet and the dishes come out great.

If you have any questions I have become the dishwasher whisperer, but don't ask about installation.

driver100

If you have the Power of Attorney or if you are Executor/Executrix of the Estate, you can do most anything

Probably ask for a reduction in cost if the car isn't really being used much.

tjc78

Dishwashers should last longer than that. Like I said earlier my Parents have one that is twenty years old. I'm going to be pretty upset if I don't get at least ten years out of all my new kitchen gear.

Washing machines seem to be my arch enemy. Ive been in my house seven years and am on my third one. (fourth if you count the one that lasted a week).

Stick,
Autolenders loves Altimas and Camrys. Hope it works out.

kyfdx

Our Jenn-Air (division of Maytag) dishwasher is 13.5 years old... It was installed when we built the house in 1998.

Also, Maytag washer and dryer (with one warranty repair on the washer), also new with the house..

Amana refrigerator bit the dust at the 12-year mark... replaced by a Bosch.

driver100

my Parents have one that is twenty years old.

Old ones did last 20 years.

The guys who installed it said new ones last 5 to 7 years. There are probably a lot more parts and things that can go wrong in a new one. They work incredibly well, but just don't hold up.

driver100

Our Jenn-Air (division of Maytag) dishwasher is 13.5 years old...

Same deal, they lasted because they did last when they were made that long ago. It's like I have a friend who has a fridge that was 40 years old.....but, if you buy a fridge today it will never make it to 40.

oldfarmer50

"...535 with 300 hp gets 30mpg..."

Before you gloat too much remember, I can buy a lot of gas for the PT with the $40k I saved by not buying the 535. :P

Gas milage really didn't factor into the decision when I bought because the wife thought it looked. "cute" and she was able to get in easily with her bad leg. That Chrysler 2.4l was built to last but when it was designed in the 1990s gas was a buck so they didn't spend their money making it a fuel sipper. Chrysler now has a 2.4l that gets better milage and has more power but by 2009 they were just trying to crank out as many cheap PTs as they could before the model was discontinued and didn't refit my car for that new motor.

snakeweasel

But yet, people treat those EPA ratings as biblical in nature and will prefer one car over another in forum discussions or in their actual purchase because car A gets 1 more mpg than car B over there in the EPA rating.

I have always said that a 1 MPG difference in EPA ratings is essentially the same. My rational for that is 1.) that we are talking whole numbers so comparing 30 MPG vs 31 MPG could very well be comparing 30.4 to 30.5 (of course we could also be comparing 29.5 to 31.4). 2.) no two cars of the same make model and engine will get the exact same mileage. So the 30 MPG rated car that I get may get as good or better mileage as the one 31 MPG rated car that I would have gotten. 3.) My driving style might be best suited for the 30 MPG car and I will get better mileage on it (of course the converse is also true) and 4.) It is just an estimate and there has to be a margin or error. So if we apply a margin or error of 1 then each cars rating is within the margin or error of the other.

What is a 1 MPG difference? If I could increase my daily driving mileage by 1 MPG I will save enough money every month to buy lunch at McDonalds.

stickguy

the 40 YO one also sucks electricity down like the fridge equivalent of a 426 Hemi, relative to a new one. Plus all the fancy gadgets/gizmos. More stuff, more to fail.

I do have my 1st fridge (from the 1st house I bought in 1990) out in the garage. Works just fine. Never been defrosted (so I assume it does it automatically?). I have no reason to think it won't last another 18 years if I want it to!

I do know that the freezer (defroster) and the ice makers are supposed to be the biggest problem (failure) areas on those.

Dishwashers? Who knows why they would fail now. Quite possibly electronics. And of course, lack of maintenance. I honestly don't know if you are supposed to do anything preventive to your DW, but if you are, I would bet my house that 99+% of people don't do it!

dino001

Dishwashers? Who knows why they would fail now
Door seals and motor come in mind. Definitely not in first 10 years, though.

driver100

Before you gloat too much remember, I can buy a lot of gas for the PT with the $40k I saved by not buying the 535.

If you got a Honda 55c.c. you could buy even more gas, but...................

driver100

Door seals and motor come in mind. Definitely not in first 10 years, though.

Keep in mind the old dishwashers were basically a sprinkler system that did run through different cycles.

Even a $500 dishwasher is electronic, has about 5 different cycles....even one that senses how long it should run for if you desire. Some heat the water and some use steam to clean. They are much more complicated and there is just more that wears out or can go wrong.

For some reason, longevity is not a big factor. Maybe that makes sense because the dishwashers available in 5 to 7 years will be even better, and may even cost less.

Besides, we need to keep buying to get this economy moving.

jmonroe

But, they said dishwashers last 5 to 7 years, so there isn't much point in paying $3000,

Other than the dishwasher that we bought when we did the kitchen redo in January 2010 and failed just out of warranty in April 2011, all the other dishwashers we had lasted more than 5 to 7 years. In fact, with the advice from a service guy, a hair blower dried the moisture from the touch panel and it worked fine when I did that but since I was being given a free equivalent replacement by Sears, I took it. I go by my own experiences and others I know not someone involved with selling dishwashers. Installers are too close to the seller so I don’t go by what they say. A lot of them shoot from the hip just like service advisors at dealerships.

BTW, I’m surprised that you wouldn’t apply the driver method of justification for buying a $3000 dishwasher. By calculating it by its hourly cost of ownership it ain’t all that much.

If you have any questions I have become the dishwasher whisperer, but don't ask about installation.

No offense, but I’ll blow in my own ear when it comes to dishwashers. Given that you have probably had a lifetime of experiences with paying someone to install your dishwashers (as opposed to guys like me who are DIYers), I’d say you’d be the resident forum expert of telling people how you’ve been ripped off. :sick:

Good luck with your new dishwasher. I think it will last longer than 5-7 years.

jmonroe

driver100

Good luck with your new dishwasher. I think it will last longer than 5-7 years.

Don't forget the old one was 6 years old and I would say wasn't used that hard....light/normal use.

If it hadn't stopped actually washing, it had a leak (which the installation guys said a lot of them start doing that) and it had an electric problem....one of those plastic things was starting to melt.

Somehow, I think the Bosch should last longer, especially since we will be in Florida for 1/3 of the year, so that should add a few years right there.
(didn't mean to give another of those digs, but it just happened).

Fezo, we'll give you today off, but check in tomorrow sometime.