Stories from the Sales Frontlines

fezo

My white count went up a whole point! 1.2. This is way cool.

Errata from previous post: I said at was 1969. I agree, though , that 1957 was a good year. I graduated high school 1969.

I did much better this morning. 1942.

oldfarmer50

"...no competition..."

According to Edmunds that $24k mustang had around a $23k invoice give or take. TMV was about $500 over invoice. So you were offering $20k plus a trade worth at most to them $500. So you were offering $3000 less than invoice.

To me that would be a pretty aggressive position to take. I admire that. If it had worked out for you it would be one heck of a win.

imidazol97

>I did much better this morning.

Relieved to hear things went better and especially glad to see the WBC up meaningfully. How many days down now?

driver100

Sorry, but Monroe said I shouldn't talk about the Passat until I was ready to buy, so here is my story about dishwashers.

Our Maytag just doesn't work any more. I don't believe in fixing these things when they get this old because it will cost me $200 and then it will break down again.

Saw a Bosch at Best Buy (Future Shop in Canada) for $499.

I said I wouldn't buy a Bosch again because the last one broke down about a month after the warranty and cost $300 to fix......Bosch just ignored me.

The fact is, there is probably nothing better. We went to a private store's clearance centre and they had the best appliance salesman possible. He explained how Bosch was the quietest and probably the best when you add up the features. This is what I learned from him and he didn't have a Bosch to sell me;
* Insulation can be mastic or plastic. Mastic is much better and is the best material for quiet operation. Bosch is about as good as it gets at 50 decibels, just 3 decibels more equals twice as much noise.
*The best interior is stainless, and the shelves should be nylon
* American dishwashers have garburetors. These are more likely to breakdown because the blades spin at 1000s of times a minute. European use a screen and a catcher in the bottom which just gets dumped out...this also makes it quieter.

He had a Blomberg model which was designed by Bosch and was basically the same, but it was $488.

My plan is to get the real thing, a Bosch for $499, and a 5 year extended warranty for $150.
Normally this model sells for $599 at Best Buy and $699 every where else.

He was an incredibly good salesman, he explained why certain brands were better than others and when he knew we liked the Bosch he said he would sell us the Blomberg, but for $10 more he said if you can get a Bosch then go ahead.

snakeweasel

The first new car I bought was a Mustang back in 82. Now if you want to talk about a captive market this was on Kodiak Island with IIRC only had two dealerships. The next closest Ford dealership was like 350 miles away.

Anyway it was an 81 brand new in 82. IIRC they knocked about $1,500 off it which was a lot back in 82.

jmonroe

I called Dearborn and registered a complaint.

I can’t imagine that got much results. We live in a free market system, you know that so why torture yourself about it. The dealer gets what the market says he can get. Why not spend a little time on the internet and go a little further to get what you want and at the price you’re willing to pay. The last two cars I got I went to Ohio. Got the ’09 Genny in Statesboro (around 2 hours from the Burgh) and the ’12 Legacy in Columbus (around 3 ½ hours). Columbus is as far as I’m willing to travel. However, Son #2 went to Cincy to get his ’10 Kia Sedona Minivan last spring and went to Columbus to get his ’06 Mazda 6 in ’09. Son #1 went to Northern Virginia to get his ’02 Altima in ’04 but he’d go to Indiana or Illinois to get what he wanted so he’s not a good example to use but you get the idea.

We would have been more than happy not to leave the greater Pittsburgh area but we couldn’t find what we wanted around here when we wanted to buy so we went further out. To us it was a one time thing worth a few hours so that’s why we did it. Years ago doing something like this would not have been an option so why not let technology work for you. Until you try it you’ll never know if it’s worth it.

The reason your local dealer holds to his price is because he can. Let your neighbors keep him in business and be happy that they do so you’ll have a local service dept. to take your car to when you need them.

Make it work for you.

jmonroe

sterlingdog

I've experienced what you did, except it was with our Pinehurst Cadillac dealer. They just don't/won't negotiate---too many old, rich people who don't even know that you can negotiate for a car. I'm with Jmonroe. I let my neighbors keep the local dealer in business so that I can enjoy their excellent service department. I drove 40 miles to another Cadillac dealer to make my purchase, and saved a good $10K. When it was all said and done, the SM said that he enjoyed negotiating with me. Some dealers expect it and some realize that they don't have to play. Branch out and do a little searching. You'll be glad that you did.

Richard

sterlingdog

Dishwashers remind me of people---the same last name but some with better talents and qualities. I've owned nearly every brand during the last 50 years: Kitchen Aid, Kenmore, Whirlpool, Frigidaire, Amana, etc. Last year, we needed a new dishwasher. As usual, I did right much research. The only negative about the Bosch was the dry cycle. I also asked a good salesman about that complaint. He said that some customers did complain about the drying feature. He said that he owned a top of the line Frigidaire and was really pleased with it. My research also showed high ratings for the Frigidaire. We bought one. Never have we had cleaner dishes or a quieter dishwasher. We decided to do a test. We had a set of old crystal that had long been etched and stained by other dishwashers for many years. We loaded up the set and put it on normal cycle. We couldn't believe our eyes an hour later---old soap scum and etching completely removed. They look like new. We're able to use the set again. Perhaps it is just this one particular dishwasher, but I am now sold on Frigidaire.

Richard

mako1a

So you were offering $20k plus a trade worth at most to them $500.

Thank you all for your responses. It is really frustrating doing all this.

oldfarmer, you're assuming my Bronco is a piece of junk. I paid $4700 for it and put another $850 in repairs into it so I've had it for 4 months and have $5500 in it. Granted it may never bring that, but the tires are more than $500.

As far as driving 40 or 80 miles with a 600 pound plow on the front. Not a safe thing to do. You shouldn't go over 50 or 60 with the blade on. Sudden steering moves make it unstable.

I'm working on a pick-up and delivery of a special order Mustang from a dealer in Roanoke. We'll see how that goes. At this point, money is not the object. Satisfaction is.

fezo

I came in here on what they called day -10. Today is day 11. Transplant day was day 0. So, yeah it's been a fun three weeks so far. In theory I leave here on April 20 but that will all be based on counts so the white count news is really exciting. My platelets are at maybe 18. I get them more days than not. It's a seriously low level but part of the deal.

Lots and lots of the things they were worried about killing me off along the way are now objects in our rear view mirror.

It's still a long thing but once they release me from here I can have my kids over at the Hope Lodge. Not being able to see and touch them has been by far the hardest part of this.

I'll have to pick which year tomorrow will be.

imidazol97

April 20th! That's not too far away: the light at the end of the tunnel. 3 days after tax filings are due. 8 days after my birthday. Hope that day works out to be the transfer date.

oldfarmer50

"...the tires are worth more than $500..."

I didn't mean to insult your truck but I was just thinking what the dealer would be able to get for it at auction. No way they would sell such an old vehicle themselves.

I think someone here once said that it doesn't matter what a seller has invested in a car that determines value, it's what a buyer is willing to pay.

I didn't remember you saying that you paid $4700 for it. I can see why you wanted $4000 as a trade. I know dealers in my area would never give that much but 20 yo trucks in my area are usually rust buckets.

Anyway, keep looking.

explorerx4

Richard,
Glad you, your wife, and the SRX are OK.
We travel a lot, and prefer to drive an SUV.
Your experience is the exact reason why.
The unknown can bite you and I'm willing to trade some fuel mileage to be able to handle that unknown.
I loved my little Ford Focus, but it was damaged so easily that I just gave it up for something bigger(Fusion), then bigger and taller when that didn't work out either.

dino001

To do business, two sides have to find it beneficial. Yes, some dealers want too much for their cars and offer too low for customers' trades. Happens every day. Many even make attempts to obscure the real cost by those four square sheets - many of those tactics are indeed, questionable if not downright immoral (rarely illegal). But not everybody who dares to offer you too low for the trade or refuses to give you invoice for car they know they can sell next day for MSRP, is an evil [non-permissible content removed], deserving to go to hell.
Over the number of years I noticed you have always expected rock bottom price and top trade on anything you wanted to buy: Corvetted, Mustang, I thing you had couple more attempts. Nothing wrong with that - everybody is entitled to try best for them and think they deserve everything for next to nothing. But your stories seem to have a pattern: an evil dealer refuses to lay down and he actually dares to want to make a profit. What an outrage :sick:
Don't get me wrong - if you can get what you expect, more power to you - but perhaps if every time the offers are so off and they won't budge, it is time to adjust the expectations?

dino001

I also have to add that higher spread in smaller markets is natural. Those guys have much less competition (which means they can charge more and offer less), but they also likely have smaller volumes, as well. Smaller volumes equal larger fixed costs, which means larger breakeven markups. There is also much larger risk with inventory - the dealer may get a trim/model that will find no buyer, which has more impact on their profitability. Higher risk requires higher reward. Again - just because the prices are higher or trades are lower, they are not evil. Just like mom and pop store will charge higher price for a gallon of milk than a supermarket.

explorerx4

Sounds like you stepped in it with your mechanic.
I guess he has a security camera too? :P
Didn't you post a picture of the Bronco at one point?

mako1a

Didn't you post a picture of the Bronco at one point?

Yes, the ad when it was for sale. Removed the next day.

It's not real fancy like todays vehicles, but captains chairs

and power windows were top of the line in 1990.

I'm honestly not trying to best the dealer. He is stuck on full

MSRP, so I'm stuck on my price and No, my expenses are of no concern.

snakeweasel

But since it isn't car related I won't go into it.



I'm evil, ain't I?

mako1a

you have always expected rock bottom price and top trade

Not so. Virginia Beach had many dealers competing and I could buy a new car with minimal back and forth. Usually 30 minutes or so. It's only here (small town) that I dread car shopping. Trading the 4Runner for the Solara in W VA took only 15 minutes. They gave me the difference. I countered with $1k less. SM said you'll buy right now? I said yes and gave him my debit card. Even got a full tank of gas. Tags and fee was $49. Here it's $300 or more and they want you to pay their business license tax. That's why I use OTD pricing here.

fezo

Yeah, turns out the light at the end of the tunnel is the Lincoln Tunnel..... Well, actually Hope Lodge where I'll be for a couple of months after this is maybe 10 blocks from the Lincoln.

There I get a suite but need caregivers 24/7 - not pros - just someone who can be at the place for a given period of time (say 2 days or so) basically so that if I suddenly dive bomb they can get my [non-permissible content removed] back to the doctor. The other thing is they have to clean, cook and laundry because I'll not be allowed to do. Right down the street from the Garden but in that time frame of course I can't go there.

The good thing about Hope Lodge (in addition to the fact that it's not a hospital and won't be waking me ungodly hours and - the girls can come see me there!

Say goodnight Gracie......

explorerx4

expand on the process of how that works.

driver100

Dishwashers remind me of people---the same last name but some with better talents and qualities.

LOL - Dishwashers remind of people - some work harder than others!!!! :P

Not sure what is wrong with the Bosch drying system....according to this it is state of the art;
Bosch award winning drying system

I think buying a good dishwasher is a crap shoot. You can't really tell until you get it home and start using it. You buy it, and hope for the best. Sounds like you lucked out.

kyfdx

If you research Bosch dishwashers, you'll find that the really special, quiet models start at about $1500..

At $499, it's not likely that it will be any more quiet than a G.E. or a KitchenAid...

I like Bosch.... we have one of their refrigerators...

mako1a

About 4 houses ago my wife wanted a dishwasher, but the space would only allow one 2/3 the size of a normal one. I said, if you can find one, go ahead and buy it. I went on a business trip thinking no way. I come home to find a 2/3 sized Kenmore installed.

My wife said that was the best dishwasher ever. Not quiet, but super strong. She put in the aluminum percolator coffee strainer and it came out looking better than new. Like someone had polished it.

driver100

At $499, it's not likely that it will be any more quiet than a G.E. or a KitchenAid...
The top of the line 800 Series has the quietest dishwahers at 40 db.
( • Features: Virtually Silent: 40 dBA, Quietest Dishwasher in the U.S., InfoLight® Beams on the Floor to Indicate Dishwasher is Running, Two Pumps Minimize Noise & Vibration, Solid Base Contains Sound & Prevents Leaks)

The Bosch 300 Series which we are interested in has the quietest operation in it's class at 50dbs. Most dishwashers if they are really good operate at 53dbs and that somehow equates to 50% louder....3 dbs more = 50% more noise.

I think statistically, feature for feature, Bosch comes out ahead. I wasn't a big fan of Bosch going in because the last one needed a $300 repair right after the warranty expired. But, when the salesman compares other makes, and even in other stores, and Bosch is superior in every category (depending partly on what's important to you, for example having a garburetor compared to noise level) the Bosch comes out on top.

At $499, tall tub, stainless steel interior, nylon racks, mastic insulation, quiet operation, method for washing, method of drying, customer satisfaction....you have to conclude Bosch comes out on top.....and they make auto parts!

driver100

I went on a business trip thinking no way. I come home to find a 2/3 sized Kenmore installed.

There are 2/3s size apartment dishwashers. That Kenmore could have been made by Bosch or some other manufacturer. Sears has their dishwashers made by other manufacturers. There is a Kenmore that is exactly the same as the Bosch 300 we are looking at...priced at $699 (the Kenmore is a Bosch....the Bosch was on sale for $499!)

tjc78

Driver,

Sounds like a good deal on the Bosch DW. We have a Kenmore made by Whirlpool I believe. It does an oustanding job, except (go figure) the drying cycle could be better.

Mako,
Good luck with your Mustang hunt. How great technology is that we can have 300HP V6s with sub 7 second 0 to 60s pulling down damn near 30MPG.

As for your Bronco, IMHO sell that outright. You will have a much, much better chance of getting closer to what you paid. There will be someone looking for one and be willing to pay if yours is nice.

Fezo,
All sounds very promising. Best wishes man!

tjc78

Dishwashers remind me of people

Yeah, full of "suds"......

just couldn't help myself!

jmonroe

But since it isn't car related I won't go into it.

I’m betting that the next time the dog barks he's probably going to be let in. :surprise:

jmonroe

fezo

expand on the process of how that works.

I said a lot of things - how what works?

jmonroe

Most dishwashers if they are really good operate at 53dbs and that somehow equates to 50% louder....3 dbs more = 50% more noise.

It’s a logarithmic function but let’s not get into that.

I buy a dishwasher to wash dishes so a little noise doesn’t bother me. The replacement for the Kenmore that crapped out just past the warranty period, that the Sears appliance manager gave us full credit for about two years ago (I posted about that when it happened) is a Samsung. I don’t know how it compares to a Bosch but it is pretty quiet. As for washing, I’m convinced that all the dishwashers we’ve had are pretty good at that since Mrs. j has the dishes pretty clean when they go in so all it has to do is dry them and the Samsung is a good dryer. Of course when it was new I told her to throw the dishes in with just a quick rinse from under the faucet just to see how well it worked because of all the hype the Sears salesman gave it, so she did. They came out clean just like he said they would but Mrs. j said something like, “OK, I did your little experiment but don’t expect me to continue throwing garbage into the dishwasher. We have a disposal for that”.

Unless the dishwasher is moved into our bedroom I can live with a little noise but not dirty dishes. Thinking on what I just said, that probably wouldn’t bother me either since I’m a very sound sleeper. When I was in the Navy, a guy came in drunk late one night and set his rack on fire from a cigarette. Everyone one in our section of the wing (around 45 sailors) was up putting it out. I slept through all that noise. :confuse:

jmonroe

Kirstie_H

Some people have to learn the hard way not to put the grill too close to the siding.
:P

oldfarmer50

"...I won't go into it..."

Couldn't find the garage when you pulled in? :surprise:

sterlingdog

"...full of 'suds'....."

As always, you put things so nicely. I would have said full of something else. :P

Richard

sterlingdog

Good grief! Was a client ticked off because you couldn't manage to get him a tax refund?!

Richard

sterlingdog

"...but don't expect me to continue throwing garbage into the dishwasher."

I agree with Mrs. J. totally. We just don't leave food on the plate for the dishwasher to eat. I guess that we use ours more as a sterilizer than as a washer. As for the noise, I could care less. Ours is very quiet, but it wouldn't bother me if it wasn't. Once the dishwasher starts, we cut out the lights and head for the other end of the house. Starting the dishwasher is the last thing that we do before going to bed.

Richard

mako1a

I'm guessing bad wiring on the porch light. Or an overload. Halogen bulbs?

snakeweasel

Thats exactly it, the porch light caught on fire. Luckily our neighbor saw it not long after it started otherwise it would have been a lot worse. Fire was confined to a small area outside the house. No damage to the inside.

It likely wasn't faulty wiring, it was the original fixture that came with the house 9 years ago, original light bulb too. We think either a bird started a nest in or next to it or the wind caught it just right and knocked of part of the lamp casing against the bulb.

Anyway the fire department cause far more damage than the fire after they put it out poking around seeing that there wasn't some embers still burning somewhere in the wall.

oldfarmer50

"...bad wiring..."

Or maybe he bought a Chevy Volt. :lemon:

imidazol97

>maybe he bought a Chevy Volt.

That was uncalled for. I'd love to have a Volt and drive around with a smugness that I'm saving the environment or something.

tjc78

It's the Cruze you have to worry about. Cruze

explorerx4

Many of the homes in our neighborhood have the same front door setup.
I have the same full view storm door.
It's really fun to take out the glass on Halloween and reach through to door with the candy.
Glad you are ok and the damage wasn't worse.

snakeweasel

It's really fun to take out the glass on Halloween and reach through to door with the candy.

That door you can either have the glass or a screen. One day I was switching them when the dog for whatever reason got out of the back yard and came around front. Well with neither the glass or the screen in the door I just called the dog who came up to me and stopped short of the door and stood there waiting for me to open it. She just didn't realize she could just walk through it.

driver100

It's the Cruze you have to worry about.

That thar Cruz went up real good!

driver100

I checked a private appliance store and they had the same Bosch on sale for the same price - $499.
That store would be 30 to 40 minutes away compared to 15 minutes for Best Buy.
We decided to save time, and because the saleslady was so good at Best Buy we would go there.
She looked it up and said the black model was $50 more since they showed white in the ad.
I said we would go to the other store if they didn't lower to $499. It wouldn't be worth $50 to travel across town but it is the principle of the thing.
She called the manager and he said we could have it for $499.
Add $50 delivery, $169, to install, $30 to take away the old unit, $150 for the 5 year extended warranty (surge protection even) and tax you get about $1025.

cdnpinhead

are among the biggest ripoffs on the planet.

Self-insuring for anything costing less than $10K makes the most sense to me. YMMV.

They don't sell these things as a charity -- they make more on the "warranty" than they do on the sale of the product.

PT Barnum lives!

bolivar

Fireman should buckle his helmet. It doesn't do him much good if it flys off his head if he jumps.

Tire blowing up set off the security alarm. Very useful option.

I wonder if a 35# hand fire extinguisher would have put that out within a minute?

driver100

Extended Warranties. . . are among the biggest ripoffs on the planet.

Normally, I would agree 100%. But, if I am paying $850 for the dishwasher, and the last one cost me $300 to fix one month after the warranty ran out..........then $150 or $30 a year gives me a lot of peace of mind that I won't have to spend another $1000 13 months from now.

I am not a big fan of extended warranties but in this case it works for me.

btw, there was an excellent segment on the Canadian consumer show "Marketplace" last week. When you buy a laptop computer (under $500) at Best Buy for $20 for an additional $20 a month. The salesperson at the store says they will load up Windows and anti-virus etc, and if there is any problem BB will fix it.
Of course $20 a month over 3 years adds up to $720 and you could almost buy a new computer with that. Does any one have that many problems. Most people can set up their computer and there are good FREE security systems. (over $500 and it costs $30 a month).

Marketplace busted Best Buy for offering this rip off warranty.

driver100

We have an appointment at the BMW Dealer tonight to test a 2013 3 Series. We'll see what happens. They sure do look nice!

tjc78

Add $50 delivery, $169, to install, $30 to take away the old unit, $150 for the 5 year extended warranty (surge protection even) and tax you get about $1025.

Holy Crap! There are times that I am thankful I am handy. A dishwasher has three things to connect:
1:) Power (three wires) 5 minutes
2:) Drain (plastic pipe with a spring clip) 2 minutes
3:) Hot water (flex pipe) 2 minutes

And $30 to haul it away?. It should be free, they scrap those things. They are just like car dealers, making money on the front and back ends!

I wonder if the mom/pop store nickel and dimes like that.