Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Stories from the Sales Frontlines
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Here's part of the team in the Panther Racing garage, talking to driver J.R. Hildebrand:
And here is the team in the Go Daddy garage. My son is wearing the M3 shirt(big surprise):
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I am impressed. They must really want to find out what the problem is.
Looks like you learned something new about your BMW that you didn't know before! A double click
I kind of thought that in the back of my mind. It is the same if I want to leave the windows down a bit. I have to lock it with the key to leave the windows down, otherwise they go up as you walk away.
here until November or December, it's going to be a difficult unless the dealer will hold the car for you
Passats take 6 to 8 weeks to build. Since we want a manual and an SE model and white with a beige interior we will order a 2013. We will probably order at the end of August. They will hold it for a few weeks - that's what they said. I got the best price from Edmunds and I will write and say we will sign the contract at that price. If they don't go for it I'll write to 2 or 3 other dealers in the area. We can send a depost via VISA.
Do you get Florida registration and title or you use Canadian registration and title?
We will register and license the car in Florida. It is a big hassle to leave a car there with Canadian (Ontario) plates on it, and insurance would be impossible. Cars are about 20% less there. After a year or two we could bring it back and license it in Canada, but that probably won't happen.
If we took my wifes car down - and that was the original plan - it would be very difficult. We would pay taxes on it...I think 7% on the value, and then it would need certain modifications. Overall, better to have a 3 year warranty and just get t licensed and insured there.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Most of the Canadians who come to our complex and own condos here bring their cars with them. They don't keep a car down here just for Florida! They just enjoy driving their cars here each winter. Sounds like you have things well in hand re: the Passat.
Lexus in Torrance
Yes, they called me twice from California re: the vibration problem. I guess I have to remember not to buy a newly redesigned car the first year of production. I was so spoiled by Mercedes that I forgot about that AXIOM. They need time to work problems out on the GS350. Since I have to drive 38 miles each way to the dealership, they said they would compensate me in some way - but did not get specific.
BOILING OUR WATER UNTIL TUESDAY!
Received a call from Broward County Water and Sewer Department this evening - have to boil our water right through the weekend! They said they found some ecoli bacteria on small amounts on the water, not a lot, but enough to put the restrictions on to boil our water! We have had over 16 inches of rain in the last four days which I believe caused the problem. When you get that kind of rainfall in such a short amount of time, the sewers usually overflow and the canals overflow causing contamination of the water aquifers. They expect the problem to lessen by Sunday, but want to take extra precautions. So I boiled several gallons of water for drinking as well as for brushing our teeth. I don't remember the last time we had this kind of restriction down here in Broward County. C'est la vie!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Yes. If you are interested, here is the video of the final championship match. Long story short, you scored points by putting a racquetball in the plastic trays and raising the trays as high as possible. Every time we did a lift I was sure our robot would fall over.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Does Edmunds include the notorious Florida doc fees in their price? $700 vs. $45 here in NY. For that price they must have to wrestle an alligator at DMV to complete the registration.
"...we would pay taxes on it..."
Could you explain that? Why would you have to pay tax on a car you already own?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
We like to drive down and use our real car...the 535 for getting around in Florida. We would like to own a car with Florida registration etc. for 2 reasons.
1) If we fly down for a short stay, like 2 or 3 weeks we will have a car we can use. Friends can pick us up at the airport or we can rent a car for 2 days. 2) When we drive down, probably the end of December, we like to have 2 cars around so I can do my thing and my wife can go off and do something if she wants to. We both play tennis separately...this allows us to do our own thing.
More costly, but we might as well get as much enjoyment as we can from the Florida place. We don't own a boat, or drink excessively, or smoke, or gamble etc., so our main vice is overspending on a Florida car!
. I guess I have to remember not to buy a newly redesigned car the first year of production.
That's a good rule, but shouldn't be necessary today. With all the computer models and testing the car makers should be able to make cars pretty flawlessly...but, there always will be glitches. The Passat is a completely new model in 2012, but I guess it is pretty low tech, so may not have those kind of problems.
That's a bummer about the water. It might be easier to get bottled water for drinking, boiled water for brushing teeth etc.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Edmunds includes the transportation fees which is nice, but not the doc fees. The dealer we are trying to work with has doc fees of $480, though all the others are $700. It is completely ridiculous and there should be a law against it.....it is a complete rip off...and probably collusion.
"...we would pay taxes on it..."
Only the government can make taxes like that legal.
If you try to reason these things out you will go crazy....just accept it and enjoy the good things.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I don't understand "doc fees" here in Florida. Most dealers charge a Dealer Service Fee which is really just added profit - $399 to $799 - depending on dealer, but Documentation Fees is something different. When you take out a loan on a car, there are Doc Fees, usually between $95 (which is what I paid) and $180, depending on the bank and I believe the county - I'm not sure how the amount is calculated. If you lease a car down here, there are lease fees, charged by the bank or leasing company.
But $700 doc fees for Florida only - haven't seen that, has anyone else?
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
You can't blame people for confusing those. Dealers in this State get really inventive. Last ten years is basically proliferation, all aimed at obscuring real costs from people. Tampa's Hondaland dealer had three fees already preprinted on the contract and that is BEFORE one opts for lease, when there may be two or three more. Soon enough we'll get ads for $1 price (*$19999 service fee not included).
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Dino*, I wasn't blaming anyone - just trying to figure out what the Florida doc fee was. Just thought that the doc fee was something the banks charge and/or the state/county for "recording" the lien. Thought it was similar to the fees charged at a house closing.
Now if it was dealer fees, I understand. Sorry all for my misunderstanding. The fees charged by dealers down here in the state of Florida are horrendous! The owner of the dealership where I worked charged $799 for his dealer fee which is about $200 higher than other dealers throughout the state. Unfortunately, you cannot negotiate that fee "away" because when it's on the buyers order they MUST charge everyone that same fee.
Anything to make a buck! It's getting out of hand!
boil water advisory...
Just got back from Walmart where we bought 8 gallons of distilled water. Don't know how long the advisory will last, but I think distilled water is probably the best when you consider that it's the same price as regular water. I remember when hurricane Wilma hit us, we were without water for almost 2 weeks! Had to go down to the swimming pool and fill up buckets so we could flush the toilets. No fun, that's for sure!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Yeah, what am I supposed to do with a car with a Canadian registration? :confuse:
Boy, I hope Richard comes back soon. Fleecing him is a lot more straightforward....
Fezo, I'm going to leave you my old van when I croak. All the dirt and ooze inside there will give your new immune system the challenge it needs to become strong. This spring I found a family of mice living there and last week I opened the back door at the farmer's market and a chipmunk ran out.
Just think, a nice roomy ride and pets for the kids.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
You might not be able to negotiating it away per se but you can account for it when you make your offer. The guys on this forum, and I am definitely one of them, are kinda upity about extra fees by what ever name they are given. The dealer can call it anything they want, it’s just a ploy to get more money. We have heard the party line that since it’s on the preprinted form “we have to charge you that fee or they’ll put me in jail”. That’s OK with us; we’ll help with the hand cuffs. How somebody could hold a straight face and tell a buyer that line is beyond me but I know it’s done with every sale. I have to think that extra fees are easy to extract from buyers in southern Florida because it’s a real schlep to drive north to Georgia or Alabama to buy a car. Would you know if dealers in Jacksonville or Pensacola have the same fees at the same prices as dealers in southern Florida? Buyers in those two cities, and many other close to the border towns, should be able to get around those high fees pretty easily.
FWIW, the last two cars I bought I drove to Ohio to get and it wasn’t because of the doc fee in PA (they are actually higher in Ohio) it was because I wanted a particular car and felt it was worth the drive. Driving across the border to save $600 should be pretty enticing.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
In the State of Florida, if you charge a fee to one customer, you must charge that same identical fee to all customers who buy cars at that dealer. Yes, you can tell the dealer up front that you refuse to pay the dealer fee, so the dealer may or may not elect to reduce the impact of that fee by reducing the selling price of the car by part or all of that amount, but all buyer's orders in the State of Florida must have that identical fee preprinted on the same bottom line.
I do not know the history of how the State of Florida initiated these extra profit fees on cars sold in the state, as I did not get into the auto business until 2000, and fees were already being charged at that time. I've lived in California, New York, Illinois and Pennsylvania as well as Florida, and if my memory serves me right (which it doesn't always do), I do not remember paying such exhorbitant fees when buying or leasing cars in any other state. I lived in Pennsylvania in the late 1990's and California from 1990 to 1998, but don't remember if I paid fees to this extent on my cars (I used to lease them back then).
What I was trying to convey jmonroe* is that the dealer cannot take that fee off the contract for sale for some customers and yet charge other customers that same fee. It is illegal in the state to do that.
How my last dealership where I was a manager got away with that huge 800 dollar fee is beyond me, but they still charge that same fee to all customers. I told the owner of the dealership that I thought it was exhorbitant, even outrageous, but he laughed at me and told me if I didn't like it, there were other dealerships I could work at. That was about a week before he told me to lie to a customer and a week before I quit!!!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Glad it didn't.
One of the kids up the street designed the software for our high school robotics team a few years ago.
They went to the nationals and did ok, i think mid pack.
Good for the first time.
He works for some high tech German manufacturer now.
The fees are a complete scam. Here is a breakdown of what you will pay for a Passat
List price $24765
Tax 1485
Dealer Fee 489 (usuall $699 but that is the fee this dealer charges)
tags and registration 450
County tax 50
DMV 35
tire $5
Battery $1.50
Destination charge 770 (that one is much higher in Canada, about $1500, so that kind of makes up for the dealer fee to some extent).
I still think it is collusion because all the dealers charge it, and it isn't based on actual costs. I suppose you could say it covers advertising, dealer financing, preperation, nice showroom etc.
JMonroe mentioned buying your car in South Carolina or Georgia. Then you will have a problem getting insurance etc. We can't keep a Cdn car with Cdn plates in Florida for more than 6 months....that and the tax (over $2000) we would pay to bring the 335 down for keeps doesn't make it worthwhile.
We do know Cdns who bought a motorhome in Florida. The motorhome people have a dealership in Georgia. You buy it in Florida, but pick it up in Georgia on your way home, and pay a much lower tax. Smart!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Ah, that Canadian registration may come in handy. I would stay in good with Richard and Mako if I were you.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Totally agree. But, why should it be $49 in one state and $700 in another.
Who's scamming whom?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Since it’s the “law” I agree that the dealer cannot remove the fee. But in Florida it sounds like a dealer can establish their own “fee”. Not every dealer charges the same “fee” from what you are telling us. Thus, the areas in northern Florida can set their fee lower so that they don’t encourage buyers to go across the border to buy.
In PA the doc fee is set across the state for every dealer. Up until 2008 the fee was $55. Then in 2008 the dealers lobbied the state for an increase and effective July 2008 the fee went to $80 ($100 for electronic filing) then in 2009 it went to $100 ($120 for electronic filing). After 2009 the increase is based on the Consumer Price Index. I don’t know what it is today but it is nowhere near the $400 and up amount they charge in southern Florida.
A few years ago when we were on this doc fee discussion here, just for the fun of it I called a dealer just to find out what the fee was that year. Man, did I set off a firestorm with a few of the salesman that used to hang out here. I was accused of taking a possible sale away from the guy who answered the call because most dealerships operate on the “up system”. I thought that was pretty ridiculous but that’s the tirade they went into.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
That guy was probably abacomike and now that he knows who you are you'd better watch your back. :P
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
The FL law is you charge the fee to one, you chargeit to all - and same amount. Recent changes made them to post it on vehicles in form of a sticker. It's probably based on those anti-discrimination laws from civil right's transition times. Being an immigrant, I cannot say that for certain, but I heard/read it was a common practice for businesses charging different rates or offering different products depending on race of the customer. Insurance businesses were the worst of them all. I've been told that extended warranty pricing is not negotiable for that reason in Florida, because as an insurance product it can be only sold by licensed agent (dealer) at registered rates, so you can only lbuy it or not (do I don't).
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I'm more concerned with my front . I hate it when I can see I'm going to get nailed.
Happy Memorial Day weekend to all of you. It's going to be at least 90 in the Burgh today. I'm going to cut the grass then head over to my brother's place for a dip in the pool before he fattens up the family later on today.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I'm betting that I can't go to the funeral because of the crowd of people, flowers, etc. Will check in with the doctor. Will at least be home for that but have to go back on Sunday.
In honor of Memorial Day I checked out the one guy I knew who was killed in Vietnam on the virtual wall and there was an E-mail contact to his brother. I sent him a line saying what a great guy his brother had been and how I still think of him. He answered back very appreciatively. Better than any party.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
That is a tough one. My mother died this year in February, she was 94. We are hoping my wife's mother makes it to 100 in October. Up until a year ago she lived on her own in a 2 story house, she cut the lawn herself, shovelled snow, and went to the gym every week.
Sorry about your friend in Viet Nam. There are no words to express how sad it must be to lose a friend under those circumstances.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I bought Turtle Wax Bug Remover and it did a fair job, gets about 80% off.
This weekend went 300 miles round trip, and the front of the car was coated with bugs again, about 4X as many. Did the Turtle Wax thing and it removed about 80% again...but some are stuck on there pretty good.
My friend who had the 750 and now has a Maserati has a protective plastic shield put on the front of the car....not a bra, but a plastic coating. I think it is expensive, like $400 or $500. At the time I thought it was a bit much for just bugs, but, either the bugs are getting tougher or are multiplying. I have not really thought it was ever a problem before.
I know JMonroe the expert on such matters is off swimming and eating, but is there a better product than Turtle Wax? Does any one have any idea if these plastic coatings are worthwhile?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Now, I don't know where JMonroes "up" would be in that situation.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I didn't really know George past my being 11 because he had discovered girls and then we moved two towns up the road but I always liked him. I still remember the shock of his death. "Explosive device." Damn.
64 Mercury Comet with 576K on it...
I have always used BMW Insect Remover:
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I'm still sick/kicking myself over letting this 1963 Falcon Sprint Rallye Monte Carlo replica get away- only $26,500:
By the time my son talked me into making an offer it had already been sold- to Jay Leno...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I never used the Turtle Wax product for bug removal so I don’t know how it compares to other bug removal stuff. I prefer a good wax job so the bugs don’t stick and with the stuff I use almost all the bugs come off pretty easily with just a sponge and plain water. The trick is to have a very good slick surface.
I told this tale about the first year I had the Genny (‘09) when I drove to Myrtle Beach that summer. We usually leave around 1 PM and drive till at least 10:30 PM then check into a hotel. So, I’m driving a few hours when it’s dark and the bugs are out in full force. When I got up the following morning there were lots of bugs on the front of the hood. When I got to Myrtle Beach I wanted to go into the ocean so I waited until after dinner to try to get the bugs off. After dinner I grabbed a bucket/sponge from the trunk and got some tap water from a faucet at the pool area and proceeded to get the bugs off. They came off pretty easily. There was a guy parked next to me and said, “I have the same problem. Would you mind if I borrow your bucket and sponge for a few minutes”? I let him use them and I could see he was having a little bit of a problem but he got a lot of them off. When he was finished he said, “well, that’s better than it was but your car is almost perfect and I noticed that you didn’t have to rub as hard as I did”. I told him it was because my car probably had a better coat of wax. He wanted to know what it was and he said he’d try it when he got home. I don’t whether he did or didn’t but I know it works for me.
When I have bugs that seem to be welded on I use paint thinner. Note that I said “paint thinner” NOT PAINT REMOVER or any product that will remove paint. The paint thinner will dissolve the bugs but it will also remove the wax so I know I’ll have to redo that area for sure. Years ago mineral spirits (pretty much the same as paint thinner) was the primary ingredient used for bug and tar removal products along with some perfume. I don’t know what is used today but I have a hunch it’s the same.
In case you’re wondering what wax I use it’s Collinite’s No. 845. It’s in a very plain Jane beige pint container so if you’re looking for a fancy schmancy bottle you will look right past this stuff. I know there are Zaino geeks out there and I’m not saying that what I use is better but I don’t feel the need to go the internet route to get wax or try anything else because so far I’m very satisfied.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
My sincerest condolences to you and your wife on the loss of your mother-in-law. Nice to live to a ripe old age and still have your faculties. May she rest in peace!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
From what he told me, shingles comes from the chickenpox virus! It seems that the chickenpox virus lays dormant in our bodies. As we get older, there is a good chance that this chickenpox virus can cause shingles. It's very painful, and the welt itches like mad and burns at the same time. He ordered me an anti-viral medication along with some pain killers. According to him, this can last up to 30 days.
Oh well, Memorial day in bed, just what I was looking forward to!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Richard had "shingles" about a year ago. We have had a lot of friends who have had it lately and they say it is one of the worst things they have experienced. It affects 1 person in 3 and it usually happens after age 60.
There is a vaccine and my wife and I did it. It will cost about $200, but is well worth it.....one thing you don't want is shingles.
Good luck, I hope it will be a quick recovery. You may have caught it in time and the anti-viral medication could help.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Thanks, I will look for it when I am at my dealer.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Thanks for the tip....I will put a good coating of wax on and hopefully they will come off more easily next time.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Yes there is, and I did not get it, but my dad did last year and I guess he was the lucky one. He got his vaccine at Walgreens, and it cost him $45.00 which was worth every penny. This is very painful, and the itching and the spread of the welts is driving me nuts.
What amazed me was the fact that my primary physician took time off from celebrating the holiday to come into the office to see me! That's truly A rarity in medicine today. A rare trait in most doctors today.
From what he told me, I will be incapacitated for a few days. This is usually accompanied by back pain and nerve pain throughout the body. I am taking that antiviral medication he gave me - just hope it lessens the affects of this painful experience.
I had plans to fly to Jacksonville tomorrow morning to visit my brother for the day and was going to fly back tomorrow night! There's no way I can sit on an airplane with this much pain.
HOPE EVERYONE HAS A GREAT MEMORIAL DAY. The Veteran's organization is honoring my father tomorrow as a winner of the Silver Star for bravery during the Battle of The Bulge. Truly a great honor! He'll enjoy the day!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
That shingles is awful. I would highly recommend anyone who is about 60 or more get the shot...and if you can get it for $45 that's even better.
I suppose it is a type of insurance, but I think this insurance is really worth it. The vaccine is not 100%, but they are sure if you do get it it will be less severe. You may need a booster in 4 or 5 years, they don't know yet. Mike was lucky his doctor would see him and he started anti-virals right away. A fellow from tennis had it for about 4 months and it got into his eye, extremely painful.
It doesn't sound like a good time to be in Jacksonville though. Probably better to go after Beryl leaves.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Those old Falcons were not the most beautiful cars at the time, but that one sure looks nice.
The interior was pretty sparse though. My father always bought Fords, and all my friends fathers got GMs...Chevs and Pontiacs. I had to argue that Fords were better and they would say their family GMs were better. I argued, but deep down inside, I thought they were right most of the time. The dash boards, seats, and usually exteriors were nicer on GM cars.
Ford and Mercury had something going for them. I think they were heavier, some believed Ford had superior V8s and GM better 6s. Those were the days, every car looked different from each other, and every year the styling was completely different.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I hope you start to feel better soon. I had shingles when I woke up after Son #1s wedding in 2001 but the pain wasn’t too bad, just annoying. It started with a pain in my neck like a kink. I’ve had those before so I didn’t give it any thought. The next day I noticed a rash on my abdomen and that wasn’t too bad either. I was out cutting the grass two days later and my neighbor (a nurse) asked how I was doing and I mentioned my problem. He wanted to see the rash. As soon as I pulled up my T-shirt he said, “that’s shingles. Call your doctor RIGHT now”. Fortunately, mine was not all that painful. The rash and most of the pain went away in a few weeks after several changes of medication. However, there was still an annoying sensation that moved to my back around the waist line and to this day I still get a twinge of it every so often. Nothing really but it is a weird feeling.
The Veteran's organization is honoring my father tomorrow as a winner of the Silver Star for bravery during the Battle of The Bulge.
Do me a favor. Please shake your fathers hand for me. It’s guys like him that have allowed us to have what we have today. I’ll be going to the parade today with our 5 grand kids. We’ve gone to the Memorial Day Parade for years. I want them to know that this is not just another day off from school. The 8 and 10 year olds get it now but the younger ones just like the candy that is thrown.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I was a GM guy myself. I’m sure you’ve heard the old saying ”GM cars run badly longer than other cars run at all”. Son #1 finally figured it out when he was a teenager. He said, “you’re not really a GM fan, it’s just that you’ve got them figured out and know what makes them tick and how to keep them ticking, huh”? In a way he was right. I had friends who had Fords and Chryslers and they had a harder time keeping them running than I had with mine.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Just putting a fee on the preprinted contract to purchase doesn't mean it is legal, proper, or necessary. Here in Ohio, the dealer lobbyists convinced the legislators to make legal a fee, but it's written in the law as a fee for time purchase, sounding as though it's meant to cover worker time preparing (computer does it?) the time payment contract for a loan. That certainly isn't a fee necessary for a cash purchase.
The dealers here use the old saw that they have to charge the same "extra" fee to everyone or they "might" be charged with discrimination. Cowpies, to use a famous phrase. I just told the newbie salesman on my last purchase I'd negotiate the bottom line: he could put the monies on whatever line of his time purchase contract he wished. I think it threw him that I had a copy of the ORC (Ohio Revised Code) in my folder.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Sounds like Al Sharpton has been working overtime o convince people there's some kind of discrimination goin' on somewhere so he can stay in business.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The best way to combat these fees is to settle on a final price, say $20,000 and let the dealer price it at $19,201 and then add their fee of $799, total the same $20,000. Always works for me!
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Plenty of sane people pay $799 fee. Rather than arguing about paying the fee or not, sane people simply negotiate the total and let the dealer break it dow however they feel like. So, whether you pay $20,500+$799 or $21,299, it makes no difference. Arguing with the salesman the fee existence or legitimacy is counterproductive and may simply turn into not buying at all. I also think fee is a form of scam (in sense, gives dealers more room to advertise prices that are lower than real ones), but it's the way the business is conducted here, so I simply adjust my target price and move on.
2018 430i Gran Coupe