Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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You have the wrong attitude. You should be hoping that you live to an age where you think 9 pm is late to be out and about. I know of too many who have passed away earlier than that time in their lives.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That's one way of describing the bonuses and incentives that are available to dealerships. When I was in the business, we had incentives on specific models and of course numbers. If I sold 65 of one model and that was the goal that was set with the manufacturer, the dealership would receive a nice check from YHE manufacturer.
Some of the incentives deal with total sales of units, new cars that is, for the month, no matter what model. Other incentives eere set over a three-month period for total sales of a specific model. From my recollection, discontinued or major model year changes had a big affect on incentives. In other words, if there was going to be a major change in a specific car (like the major change in the Lexus GS350), and there was a large inventory of 2011's sitting at the port or on dealer lots, that would be a perfect example of how special incentives could be implemented to reduce inventories.
I hope this helps in understanding the special incentives.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Very interesting and completely new information for me....and perfectly explained!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I gave the guy some ideas of what he can do but it sure sounds like he's in a big mess! It sounds like the dealer had him sign a provisional contract because they didn't know what bank they were going to play with. Then they put him with Ally bank but may have engaged in some kind of fraud by using the provisional contract without informing the buyer. Unfortunately a provisional contract can be legally used, but fair "notice" in a timely manner is required.
If the dealer said they would take the car back, he should have taken it back to the dealer. Now he has a bank warning him about late payments. We don't even know if this guy is telling the whole truth about what transpired.
My advice in situations like this is get yourself an attorney in order to protect your rights as well as determine possible cause for litigation.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Watch the pressures and rotate them on a regular basis and I doubt if will need to replace them any time soon.
There was a caveat that if the front and rear tires were different sizes, cut the life in half.
2024 Ram 1500 Longhorn, 2019 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2019 Ford Mustang GT Premium, 2016 Kia Optima SX, 2000 Pontiac Trans Am WS6
Of course I've been missing a couple of days and contrary to anyone's concern I didn't have some setback. Actually I feel just fine. The only reason they are keeping me here is that I have no immune system to speak of.
That said they are letting me go home to visit for four days next Thursday (5/31). That will be great!
The kids were here Saturday which is the first time I'd seen them in two months. That was great!
Thanks, explorer. That made me go to the garage and look. F & R are same.
It also has some hefty sway bars. I'm at 385 miles and still like the car a lot.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
You must be really loving the Mustang! How would you compare it to the Avalon (if my memory is still functioning - I think that is correct)?
After 385 miles what has been your top speed so far...120 or so?
My neighbor just came back from a trip to California, went around Napa Valley down the coast to San Diego. HIs everyday cars are a pretty new Lexus and a Ford truck, but he decided to get a red Mustang convertible rental car and he really enjoyed driving that around, because as he said, his wife won't allow him to get buy one here.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I had been happy with Toyota for ten years (4Runner, Solara, Avalon) even though I had no real car connection with them. They were comfortable, reliable transportation and held value well, but had a bland personality.
So, since GM has shorter seats which my wife likes and Ford has longer seats which I like, she got a GMC Denali and I got an Escape. Both served us well. I always thought of the Escape as a soccer mom car and not really mine as there was no connection. And you know the rest of the story. I'm connected to my car now. It's fun to drive and I don't mind walking from the end of the parking lot to protect it from errant shopping carts, etc.
Asain cars have a lot of cubby holes for storage which the Mustang lacks, but that is a small sacrifice to drive a car that seems to feel like part of me. Not to mention handling and horsepower on demand and audio like no other.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I had a Solara and two Avalons. The Solara I had was a 2000 V6 all loaded up pearl white/beige. I had gotten a lot of compliments at the time. Its funny now, 12 years later that design looks really dated to me.
Both Avalons were great cars, but the 06 was light years ahead in both looks and performance over the 03.
Toyota has lost something to me, can't quite figure out what it is. I still believe they are great cars (and the whole SUA thing was blown out of proportion especially by reporters such as Brian Ross on ABC).
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
My comment was more about the "mental" thought of getting old. I know someday my body will deny me - heck it already does at times. But I'm doing everything I can not to get into that midset. BTW - there's nothing wrong with being out past 9 PM. Most people let themselves get old and accept sitting on the couch watching TV.
I'm almost 50 and still enjoy things like winter camping, hiking and snowboarding. My wife and I hope to be the ones in 20 years that people point to and say "I want to be like them when I get older."
Life is not about reaching the pearly gates in a tired body. It's about sliding in sideways and exclaiming "what a ride!!"
It's funny, practical versus fun! I had 2 Jeeps and then I got the X3...I was always carrying things around for work, so needed the extra room. The X3 was a giant leap forward in making driving more pleasurable.
Then, when I cut back on work and didn't need a car to carry stuff I got the 328 convertible. It is so nice to be able to drive a car just for the pleasure of driving. Now things have changed, and the 535 gives me pleasurable driving but has a very practical side...lots of room and comfort. But, many people just want realiability and practical inexpensive driving, and they opt for Hondas and Toyotas etc., which is fine, but they are missing out on the fun aspects that a car can have.
I am glad you are having fun with the Mustang.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
My car list has me having owned six Mustangs: 2-65s, 1-68, 1-70 (Mach I),
1-72 (351-C), and 1-98 GT. All used, some rusty, some clean, some powerful.
So far the 2013 has only been up to 80. Sorry, don't need any tickets.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
So, Lexus says they will contact the dealer about the tires and go from there. Dunlop says there is nothing wrong with tires - that they are right to specs. The dealer has had the wheels tested on some big machine at varying speeds, measuring circumferences, treads, etc., but cannot find the problem. It is not alignment and it is not balancing as the tires have been balanced twice now, with no appreciable problems - off maybe a few grams.
Really a shame that I have a brand new $60,000 Lexus GS350, and I have this problem. Even a rattle in the dashboard now due to the vibrations. I even offered my dealership a few bucks if they would put Michelins on for me, but they said they can't do anything unless Lexus gives them them the OK.
So, Lexus told me I should have a return call from Consumer Relations by Friday. Since there have been complaints from around the country about vibration in the steering wheel, I would imagine Toyota/Lexus will be getting around to the problem - but knowing how long it took Toyota to even admit there was an acceleration problem with their cars, I could be dead by the time they do something about it.
Too bad. Car handles so beautifully except for this minor problem.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I'm amazed the Toyota dealer even admitted there were other cars with the same complaint of vibration. They wouldn't admit the sludging problem. They wouldn't admit the runaway acceleration problem_s_. I am not convinced there was not an electronic component to the uncontrolled acceleration, along with the floormat and the sticky accelerator pedal problems.
I'd go with the Michelins, roadforce balancing by a knowledgeable technician who uses a zero blind setting, and a perfect alignment front and rear.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Mako - I'm loving hearing about the Mustang. I could get talked into your car with a convertible top.... Right now the Solara really works for me (or did two months ago when I last drove!) Yeah, the handling is nothing to write home about but everything else is great. In my absence the fuel injectors had to get cleaned.
It was Lexus, not Toyota, that is dealing with this problem. The assistant service manager at my dealership was in contact with the Lexus technical rep from the zone. The assistant service manager at my dealership was the one who mentioned to me that the Lexus rep admitted to him that there have been several other concerns from drivers of GS350's. He probably should not have the repeated that statement to me, so he obviously let the cat out of the bag!
They did all those tests that you mentioned in your post on the tires and wheels when the car was at the dealership in service. I am just hoping that they allow me to swap Dunlop's for Michelin's Super Pilot Sports (I think that 's the model of tires). I have to let them solve the problem. My putting on the Michelins and it doesn't solve the problem would be a waste of time and money!
Based upon what I've heard, they probably will replace the tires, but who knows when?
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Good luck, I hope they step up and either replace the tires or give you a healthy credit to get some good rubber on there.
I have Michelin Pilots on my LaCrosse and so far they have been wonderful.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
That has to be extremely aggravating. It's bad enough to have that problem on an older car, but you sure don't want it on a new car. My wife's 335 had that hum from the tires noise. We got new tires and a balance and now the car runs very nicely once again...but it really felt bad driving around with a noise I used to have when I drove old crumby used cars.
Good luck with that one...they should make it right for you asap.
btw....I have been locking the doors about twice a day for the last week and Gigi has not been left in the car, and the alarm has NOT gone off.
I just realized, that may not make your day feel any better than it does now with the vibes...just by accident I thought of that today.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
These days there is no loyalty. As soon as he heard there was a Mustang out there he has forgotten about the Passat. These youngsters!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Nonsense! Of COURSE I still want the Passat - even in white if you must....
I don't know what kind of Dunlop's they are, but tomorrow when I go down to the car I will inspect them. I'm only hoping it won't take too long, because I already have almost 1000 miles on the car. One would think that Lexus would be sensitive to the needs of their luxury buyers. I guess I'll find out in a week or two.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
You would think? But, it will be interesting to see how they resolve this issue. Does the car vibrate when you get to the dealer? Have they taken it for a test drive? Have they admitted it vibrates?
How can so many cars be made today and you almost never hear about a new car vibrating. I have always been amazed at how well my new cars handled, especially since about 1992. They all seemed to have good tires and alignment. The tire manufacturers send the tires that are the best to be used on new cars...so you will buy them again as replacements. My BIL has a Florida car, about a 2006 or so Impala (they have looked the same for 20 years so I am not sure of the exact year) and he had a big problem with flat spots on his original tires. Got them replaced....but they should have better tires on a Lexus, and they shouldn't have flat spots after a few hours. :mad:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
One would think so, wouldn't you! By the time I get to the Lexus dealer's service department, the tires have warmed up and pressure has built up. But I have been on a test drive with a tech, and he did feel the vibration. That's why they put the car on a machine and had all four wheels tested for alignment and balancing. The major problem with automobile dealers and manufacturers is that the tires are not warranted by the manufacturer or the dealer. They are only warranted by the tire manufacturer. So long as the manufacturer says that the tires are to specifications, there's nothing one can do.
It's quite possible that I'll end up having to put new tires on the car myself and pay for everything. If that happens, this will be the last Lexus I'll ever buy!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
You know it, *stickguy! They have no idea what they are up against! I don't fault the dealership, but I fault Lexus for the laid back manner in which they responded to my complaint. Almost SMUG about my request.
I'll get to the bottom of this one way or another! Even if I have to replace the darn tires myself! BUT THIS COULD BE THE LAST LEXUS I'LL EVER BUY!!!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I only say that semi jokingly. Several cars ago I had the exact same problem. Lots of vibrations on a brand new car. The dealership had it two or three times and said the balancing and alignment was perfect. Yet I still had that vibration that was driving me nuts.
So near the dealership was a Sears and I said Whiskey Tango Foxtrot and went to the auto department and told them that I developed a vibration and if they could check the wheel balances.
Turns out that they found one tire out of balance and they balanced it. Short story is that 30-45 minutes and a few bucks later I was driving home vibration free.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Sometimes I need to take a step or two back and decide if I should post something or respond to something.
Mako's new Mustang is something I am interested in, so is the progress of your health.
But Toyota is Lexus.
As for the problem, the parts of the car, A-arms, rims, springs, etc., that move when a wheel goes up and down have gotten lighter through the decades. That means that the tire's slight up and down movements are met with less resistance in the mass of the suspension parts to moving those parts. Therefore the tires which haven't kept up with development can set up oscillations in the moving parts which are cyclic.
The problem is the compression of the actual rubber tire, sidewall and tread, under a fixed weight as load: different parts of the tire compress slightly different amounts as it rolls, giving an up/down movement to the hub and setting up the vibration in some cars. This phenomenom is addressed even in the factory service manual for my '77 Cutlass Supreme. The testing procedure for said movement is not nearly as sophisticated as the current Hunter 9700 Road Force balancer is, but it was essentially the same problem being validated in the radial tires. How it works.
Edit: I failed to point out that stiffer chasses also compound the sensing of this problem by the driver. GM went through this with the H-body and related cars in the early 2000s.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Enjoy.
Keith
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That's what they used to test all four tires and wheels. You bring up some very interesting points! Yes, today's cars are much more sophisticated in their balancing, shocks, and torque for each wheel/tire.
It's my opinion that the tires are too soft in the sidewalls which causes the tire to flatten when cold. The flattened part of the tire expands as the tire heats up on the highway and the pressure rises, reducing the vibration the more the car is driven. There is still a slight vibration even when the tires heat up, but not so bad as when they are cold. I will probably opt for the Michelins if they can't solve the problem or won't replace the tires. That, I know, will solve the problem. No sense not enjoying a brand new car because of tires.
Thanks for all your input and feedback EVERYONE. I'll keep everyone up to date on the progress or lack thereof.
APPRECIATE YOUR HELP!!!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Glad you did, and don't think about it too much. Comments are welcome, we all just add our 2 cents worth and hope it helps someone somewhere.
I for one have learned a lot around here. I don't think I would have fought to save $1000s of dollars on my last purchase if I wasn't motivated by the experience of others I read about right here. The site also helped me to find a great dishwasher and dishwasher detergent.
So all ideas and comments (that are given with good intentions) are worth posting....that's how we learn and enrich our lives!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
When you go to the car dealer, or tire manufacturer, could you take one of those mini cameras with you. I would love to hear that conversation.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Very interesting theory and sounds very plausable. But, todays cars are supposed to be tested and the right tires should be matched up with the car.
They had an ad for BMW dealers....they said to go to a BMW dealer for a proper alignment because the tires are on a slant of .000065mm or some unbelievable number that you wonder how they can do it to that tolerance.
The point is, todays cars should be engineered to drive properly if the tires are the right ones for the car, and there isn't a flaw in the tire. So, I don't think Lexus/Toyota can be excused because the cars are too sophisticated for the tires. It's like a cop out...if Kia and Nissan and every other manufacturer can make cars that can ride properly then surely Lexus should be able to do it too!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Well I bought the conversion unit and it didn't work well. I buy lots of stuff from Amazon and 99% of it works flawlessly. This, however was the exception. Here's the review I wrote:
Sony PS-LX300USB USB Stereo Turntable (Black) Setup was easy, just plug it in. Directions were scarce. I recorded without being able to hear my music and when played back I still could barely hear it.
What does Line in mean and if you're recording from a phono...you set it to phono Right? Well I'm not pleased. It was a lot of work digging out the old albums and cleaning them and recording for hours then the volume is so low you can barely hear it.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
BMW recommends alignment every 15,000 miles?
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Recently had issues with Continental Tires vibrating at 20. Dealer said tire issue, Continental Dealer said alignment issue take it back to the dealer. Deciding I didnt want to get into a back and forth anymore more than I had to, I took my M5 to a local tire center.
Normally a car with only 13g I would never take it anywhere but to the dealer for anything, warranty issues etc. but was quite surprised by the outcome. Replaced the Continental Tires with PS2's (amazing ride & feel compared to the Conti's) put the car on the alignment rack for the 4 wheel routine. Watched the whole process and the tech showed me on the computer something he had never seen in 20 years, an almost perfect camber, caster, and toe. Adjusments couldnt have got the numbers any closer to zero as they read, zero being completly perfect. Got an extensive printout showing all settings.
In summary to the chain of events over a few weeks, with the exception of putting 300 lbs of weight in the car prior to the alignment that the dealer does, the 289.00 alignment that a BMW dealer does IMO, is a waste of money, especially every 15g miles. I couldnt find a tire center that charged more than 89.00 for all four anywhere on the M5.
The Continental tires turned out to be cupped for no reason at all, and IMHO are junk! I realize that the Michelins are French made and Conti's are German, but for the extra hundred or so per tire, I would much rather have that option when I ordered my car.
Makes you wonder?????????
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
They are SP Sport 5100's. I would think it is the same tire, just a later model of that same tire. Interesting that this morning, I had no vibration at any speed and on any road surface - Turnpike, etc. Cool out - having torrents of rain down here - we had over 15" in the last 3 days, and now they are predicting even more today and tomorrow.
Thus, the tires are not getting above 35 psi - they normally run at 36 psi per the tire monitors. Since this is an intermittent problem, it has to be the tires - all the other variables that could affect vibration would cause the car to vibrate no matter what, I would imagine.
The vibration is very slight, and most drivers would not notice it once the tires heat up and pressure builds. But, I am one of those perfectionists who is used to Mercedes and BMW where the wheel never vibrates. But, the tires on the Mercedes Benz Sport are summer tires whereby the tires on this car with the 18" upgrade are all weather tires. Thus, they have different treads and different structures. Also, all four tires are the same size whereby Mercedes Sport had different sized tires front and rear.
Since the problem is intermittent and hardly noticeable at this point, I will just relax and let Lexus decide what they want to do about the tires. I would image if there are other complaints across the country about the tires, they will probably do something.
I checked, and Michelin Pilot Super Sports do not come in the size of tire required by the Manufacturer. They recommend Pilot MX....'s, @ over 300 per tire, not installed. So, if Lexus does allow for a tire replacement, which I doubt, I will go with Michelin's - always liked them and never had problems with them. Also, they have a 45,000 mile warranty for tread life.
Thanks for all the help and input, once again, everyone, it is greatly appreciated!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
It’s a shame you aren’t in Florida now. Otherwise you could take Gigi over to Mikes place so she could show him how to eat dog food during the Memorial Day cookout. Maybe that stuff is better when barbequed. I sure hope he isn’t going to renege on that offer he made in post 79507.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
ARF, ARF, ARF! Put me in the back seat of that BMW and I'll show you how the alarm works, *driver!
What I want to know, *driver and *jmonroe, WHAT'S FOR DESSERT!
lol
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I’m the other guy ‘tjc78’ was referring to about the Dunlop SP Sport 5000s on the Genny (’09). I did not have a problem with them other than horrible wear (gone in less than 18K miles) and even worse for traction in the snow. Other than that I’d say they did exactly what Hyundai wanted them to do. They were very good at handling and provided a nice quiet ride. I replaced them with Bridgestone Serenity’s at about this time of the year in 2010 and they seem to be the same for handling and smooth quiet ride but with a little more than 22K on them they still have a lot of rubber left. I doubt that I will get the claimed 40K out of them but they are light years better than the OEM Dunlop’s for wear.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Thanks for the added info. I'm not too worried about snow or wear at this point. I haven't heard any complaints about Dunlop's in the past. The assistant service manager at Lexus said he drove a new GS 350 loaner and had some vibrations like I did, so I am going to assume that this is not just my car, but there have been reports about the same problem on other cars, not only here in Florida, but in other zones around the country.
From what I have been able to ascertain, it is probably the tires that is causing vibration, even though one post mentioned a steering issue. I went to the Lexus forms, but no mention of any steering issues on the new GS 350.
So I am just going to take a wait and see attitude and hopefully Lexus will do something.
Thanks *jmonroe for your input and feedback!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Since you’ll be eating Gigi’s Pedigree for the main course, I doubt that she’d mind if you bring your favorite doggy snack, Beggo’s, for dessert. I’m assuming that’s OK with ‘driver’ as long as he doesn’t think it will ruin her girly dog figure.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Back of it has a pair of RCA jacks and a USB. Plugged USB into my computer. RCA jacks just dangled as computer has no where to plug them in. Also has a switch on back saying Line In OR Phono. Since it's a phonograph, I used Phono. Directions never mentioned the difference. CD supplied was shareware and very difficult to understand screen options and graphics. I had all my computer volumes all the way up and it made no difference on the meters on screen.
I think I'm getting teched out. I need a geek squad person to come fix the Ion, make my cell phone and car work together besides when the salesman is in there and make the "Update Plugins" sign go away on my computer.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
We may not be going down again until probably November. I have a pretty good memory for something like that. And, if I forget, I have a feeling you are going to remind me.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
18000 miles with todays tires...and I doubt if you do a lot of squealing of tires.
I think that is pathetic with the knowledge and science manufacturers should have to make tires that should last for 40 to 60k miles at least.
Why would any potential customer buy another set of those particular tires? By the rules of the free market system Dunlop (or whoever bought Dunlop) should not be in business any more, if that's the best they can do.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250