By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
I remember my dad taking me to Mickey Mantle Day in the late 60's.
Someone made poster that read 3+4=7, it actually a bed sheet but get you the idea.
Took the '02 Explorer in for it's 130k service and walked the lot, but didn't see anything suitable for my wife.
Since we switched vehicles, my wife took the 11 Explorer to work.
She said that a Hon/Toy sedan following her through the infamous West Hartford curves, lost it, hit the guard rail on the right, then slide backwards across traffic into the barrier on the left.
She thought maybe something broke, because it was not natural to crash to the right. I think it ended up being a 2 car accident.
We are going car shopping tomorrow.
Speaking of fender-benders, on I-75 south near Sarasota, FL, there was a 25 car pile-up this morning and 51 people were taken to the hospital, most with serious injuries. The have not announced what caused the accident, but a semi was involved which supposedly jackknifed and rolled over. Nasty - they showed video of the scene - not pretty.
BTW, I was at Yankee Stadium that day when they honored Mickey Mantle and retired his number. The place was jammed - and to think you were there too - small world.
Good luck car shopping tomorrow!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
That said, yesterday I had a hearing about 75 miles away and I decided to drive the '02. Aside from '70s vintage BMW/Recaro seats and a modern Alpine head unit, the car is essentially stock. No power assist except for the brakes, and no alphabet soup of electronic nannies that dial back the fun in order to keep idiots from killing themselves(an unwarranted interference with the Law of Natural Selection- but I digress
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
When I was in high school (went to Stuyvesant in Manhattan), we took a tour of Yankee Stadium and met the ball players (Mantle, Maris, Berra, Rizzuto, etc.) and I remember they took us out to center field to see the monuments - great experience. Won't ever forget that!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
That is one beautiful set of wheels and the color is "perfecto!"
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I remember that my very first job out of college (NYU) was as a Claims Examiner for the New York State Dept. of Labor and I was assigned to the Bronx office on Jerome Ave. and 170th Street. This, I took the train that passed Yankee Stadium ever day. There were some great memories at that time in my life.
I had just bought my first new car - a 1966 GTO, bright red with black interior and a Hurst 4 speed stick on the floor. I used to drive my dates to Yankee Stadium - valet park, and make-out on the car after the game.
Ahhhhh.....those were the days!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I've got my tickets and will be in attendance at Game 3 of the 2012 ALDS.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Back to the renovated stadium, we went to a game with another couple in my new 02 Explorer with less tan 400 miles on it. We parked in a lot and I had to hand over my keys to someone I didn't know in the Bronx.
I was happy it was still there after the game.
A few years ago, we attended another game with the same friend's company first base side field level seats.
When I asked if I should bring my glove, he said they never had a sniff of a ball in over 50 years.
Of course a ball hits the facade above us, but I'm kind of slow to recognize it and the people in the row in front of us get the ball.
Not long after that another ball, does the same thing. This time I put up my best stand up check move on the row in front of me and my kid reaches down and gets the ball.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
It's great. I think you will recognize the narrator too!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Seems that way. Because I have been reading a comparison test between the new Cadillac ATS and the BMW 328i, both with manual transmissions, and for the life of me, not only could I not understand the lingo but I could not feel the passion that the writer was trying to convey.
For many years I never thought much about driving a stick since I wanted a car both my wife and I could drive interchangeably. She cannot drive a manual either. And now, I suddenly have the urge to drive a stick but I am feeling a little too embarrassed to go to an auto driving school to learn how. Why the sudden urge? Probably it’s mid-life crisis but at 60 I thought I had long past that stage.
So is driving a stick all that it’s cracked up to be or just another indulgence?
Richard
Uncle: How do you like your Genesis? How old is it now?
Me: The car is doing just fine. I’ve had it for more than 3 ½ years but I won’t be getting another Hyundai.
My uncle points to his 2010 Sonata and says I will be trading that in a few days because he just got a call from a sales manager at the same dealership where I had my problem with the 2005 XG350 and they gave him a good deal. So he was going to trade his in. My uncle used to drive Cadillac’s exclusively and still has one but for his second car and as a runner for his small business (about 10 employees not counting his 2 sons who pretty much run the place these days) he decided to get a Hyundai because he liked what he heard from me about them. He has had 2 already and this would be his third; a 2013 Sonata Limited. The dealer was making a dealer trade and would call him as soon as it came in and was cleaned up in a few days he figured. He only deals with this one particular SM at this place and the guy called him and said it was about time that he got another car and they did all of the sales stuff over the phone. He was just waiting for a call when it came in. My uncle then asks why I won’t get another Hyundai. I tell him and the conversation continues.
Uncle: Are you serious? They really did that to you? (he said this a couple times)
Me: Yes, it happened just like I told you.
Uncle: If that’s the way they do business, I’m calling the guy and telling him the deal is off.
Me: Yeah, do that.
He calls the SM and tells him to cancel the deal and tells him why. Now a conversation between my uncle and the SM.
SM: I heard something about this a while ago but that shouldn’t stop you from buying a car from us.
Uncle: Well it just did.
SM: Let me look into this to be sure I’m thinking about the same story and I’ll get back to you.
Uncle: Same story? How many times have you done this to your customers?
The SM calls him back in about 20 minutes.
SM: Yes, this is what I was thinking about and if someone would have contacted me this could have been avoided.
Uncle: The way I understand it my nephew talked to a salesman and he went to somebody about it and nothing was done. So he bought a Subaru from a dealer in Columbus. Just cancel the deal, I’m not buying that car and that is final.
SM: We’ve had a pretty good relationship for years now and just because your nephew had a problem with a 7 year old car, you’re telling me we can’t do business anymore?
Uncle: The car might have been 7 years old but it only had around 43K miles on it and it was in otherwise very good shape. It should have been covered by the 10 year/100K mile warranty.
SM: Like I said if I knew about this it wouldn’t have happened. Let’s keep our deal going.
Uncle: Just cancel the deal.
SM: So, the good relationship we had means nothing.
Uncle: Blood is thicker than water.
They hung up and that was it, almost.
By almost I mean until yesterday at about 2 PM when I get a call from Mrs. j and she tells me a big shot at the dealership wanted my work number because he wanted to straighten out the problem we had with the XG350. She did not give him my phone number at work but he wanted a call from me to discuss the situation. For fun I called him and we had this conversation.
SM: Let me apologize for what happened with your 2005 XG350.
Me: You’re almost a year late, to the day, with your apology. Don’t tell me you called just for that.
SM: Actually, in addition to our apology for what happened I like to make it up to you. I see that your Genesis is 4 years old and if you buy another one from us I’ll see to it that you will get back the $3000 you lost by selling it to us with the bad engine (I got $2800 for it as it sat with a blown engine in December 2011).
Me: I don’t need another car now so just send a check.
SM: Mr. jmonroe from talking to your I see that you know something about the car business so you know that I can’t just write you a check for $3000. I can save you that by over valuing your ’09 Genesis and by selling you a new one for less than what we would sell it to someone else but I can’t just write you a check and I know that you know that. (yes, I do know that)
Me: Like I said, I don’t need another car now. If I told you what I had to do to get the ’09 you’d know what I mean. I’m not so sure I am good enough to do that again.
The conversation ended with him saying anytime I change my mind the offer stands. So, no deal was made. Then again, only one side wanted to make the deal.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I don't think that your lack of "stick" skills would qualify you as a "wus" - you would need more "wussiness" to qualify.
You really don't need driving lessons on today's cars to drive a stick - just someone sitting shotgun with you in the front seat who drives a stick. When I learned, it was on that '66 GTO, and I almost killed myself - too powerful for a first manual transmission car.
1st gear is the killer - knowing and sensing how to release the clutch slowly enough and give it "gas" so as not to stall it or not give it too much "gas" and release the clutch too quickly so as to leave rubber. Once you've mastered 1st gear, the rest comes more easily.
If this is your middle age crisis, go for it!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I can drive a stick but I won’t. So using your reasoning both of us might be a “wus”. I learned to drive on a stick even though my father had an automatic at the time. Why, because he purposely waited to take his 1958 Plymouth Sport Suburban wagon beast to the dealer for service and specifically asked for a loaner that was a stick. What a guy. So, that’s my excuse but it wasn’t my choice. Then, after I got out of the Navy, while going to night school, I drove for UPS.
No more sticks for me. I’m done.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
IMO you were damaged a lot more than the 3 grand he offered...and it looks like they have been damaged far more than that for being crooked and stupid.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I agree and he admitted that he was there but he also said he knew nothing about my problem until it was too late. Do I believe him? He’s in the car biz and for all I know he’s the one that my salesman went to about what happened.
IMO you were damaged a lot more than the 3 grand he offered...and it looks like they have been damaged far more than that for being crooked and stupid.
I know of several cases other than my uncles where that dealer was told that they would not get a sale from that particular person because of what they did to me. There are three people I work with plus the guy I bumped into in the Lowe’s parking lot who said he heard enough, his wife also said their plans to test drive a Sonata was off. I was told about a month ago by a fellow worker that another person who works where I do also didn’t buy a Hyundai because of my plight. He just decided not to buy a Hyundai but he never talked to the dealer. I know these people talk so there could be more but until the dealership hears specifically why they aren’t going to get a sale I can’t take too much credit for that. What little I do know about car sales and because of the people who told the dealer why they were not going to buy from them, I know there had to be more than 3 grand in lost sales for that dealer.
Will the dealer survive? Yes. Will Hyundai survive? Absolutely. I just take some satisfaction that at least the dealer knows why they lost a few sales.
I’ve said it before, I don’t like losing 3 grand but I can afford it today. Years ago while raising a family, no way.
I’m almost into the fun stage about losing that 3 grand but not quite. A few more lost sales, with the dealer knowing why, and then I can say, “yes, now I’m having fun”.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Ha ha ha ha ha revenge is a dish best served cold!
Be sure to send your uncle an extra nice Christmas present.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Amazing stories. Absolutely amazing.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Here are some random thoughts to consider;
*If you really appreciate handling, and a fine engine, and you want to enjoy driving to the max, you should get a stick,
*If you drive more for pleasure than for work,
*If choosing your own gear to be in is important,
*If you want maximum performance,
*If you want to feel like you are part of the car,
More thoughts. My wife will choose a stick over automatic anytime she can. She feels more engaged to the driving experience with a stick.
I had a 6 speed in my last car for 4 years. I probably would have preferred one again, but you can't get it in a 535. I do think though, if I broke an arm or a leg a stick could make life very difficult. On the other hand, it is good physical exercise, and more importantly, shifting is good mental exercise to stave off dementia.
Learning is fairly easy. I learned on my mother's 1957 VW. When I wasn't driving it, I set a toilet plunger down on the floor to learn the shifting pattern.
I like driving my wife's car occassionally and I enjoy driving standard on occassion, but, I am not so sure about for every day driving.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I learned to drive stick when I was 20 and my brother bought a VW Beatle. No power but kinda fun to drive. Went decades before I drove a stick again and then it was only a school bus.
I'm not sure I know what the passion is either but I feel hints of it when I wind out the hooptie in 2nd gear. Sometimes if I'm in the mood even the school bus can be enjoyable to shift.
That said, I think if I ever get the courage to buy a Mustang GT like mako1a, it will be an automatic. I'm just not confidant enough in my shifting skills. Maybe roadburner will offer a shifting school that I could attend.
One final thing, learn how to shift on a car that no one cares about. Depending on your learning curve it can be rough on the tranny.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
He was fully aware of your complaint...only he didn't know what a pain in
the XXXin his side you could be. He has definitely lost more than he gained with all the deals you have cancelled. Like they say, one person will put the word out to 20 other people.I don't understand companies that do not try to solve problems when they come up. Fixing the motor on your car would have beeen a lot less expensive for him and you would probably have bought more Hyundais.
I was just readin an article by a car guy who said most cars are pretty good these days. If one car is more reliable than the other it only means you will go 150000 miles without a problem compared to a more troublesome car that may only go 130000 miles before it has a problem. For this reason car companies have to try to hold on to their current customers...it is too easy for people to switch.
Not to harp on it, but we switched to an Audi from a BMW for $1500 which they could easily have come up with. I don't get it. If they solved your problem you would have told 20 people Hyundai was a great company that fully stands behind their cars.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
No wonder when some men talk about driving a stick it sounds salacious. To wit: "It is sometimes good to put a stick shift in neutral to ease the strain on your leg and foot, and also to lessen wear and tear on your clutch. When it is time to go again, simply depress the clutch and put the shifter into first gear, and give the vehicle a little gas."
Hymm! sounds like I should be asking for a lady driver at the auto school because I need to start doing a little double clutching.
Wife and I went to a dealer about 20 miles away. We got out of the old Explorer and walked over to a group of Escapes they had parked out front.
After a couple of minutes, a guy came out and introduced himself as the Used Car Manager, but he be happy to help us out if we needed anything, as all the sales people were busy.
He was a pretty low key, easy guy to talk to and he is a Yankee fan, so we had plenty of other stuff to talk about, if we weren't talking about things related to the purchase.
He even gave my wife a Yankee Edition Escape Machbox, which for some reason she saw and took a liking to.
She test drove a loaded Titanium. The test drive was a nice combination of hills, good and bad pavement and some highway.
After the drive, we decided to see if we could work something out.
He came back with a price that was within $50 of X Plan, so I told my wife it was a good offer, and we took it.
There was a $1500 rebate and we had another $750 from Ford.
The place we had gone earlier, kept saying it's a hot selling vehicle and mentioned MSRP several times, so we never got around to talking any numbers.
When we got to talking about financing, he checked and said between 2.9 to 3.9 for four years.
My wife got on her phone and our main bank was offering 2.74%. He sad they would match it or a little better. Later, he called her and told her she would be getting 2.25%.
She is making a pretty good down payment, so the payments will be about $350 for 4 years.
Yes, we are paying their $349 doc fee.
We even got a little box of cookies they have as a '30 years in business' token.
It was a little over 2 hours door to door.
Actually, double clutching puts more wear-and-tear on the clutch. With today's advanced synchromesh transmissions driving a stick is much more refined than it used to be.
If you drive in the city a lot, stay away from sticks. I find manual transmissions more enjoyable on country roads and more responsive on mountain roads. If you do lots of highway/interstate driving, a stick is of no advantage.
I have a knee replacement in my left leg, so driving a stick would be fool hearty for me. Today's sport coupes and sedans often come with paddle shifters on the steering wheel which are as close to manual trans. as you can get. Formula 1 racing cars now use paddle shifters instead of clutches because of the almost instantaneous responsiveness of that trans.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Congrats on the new wheels. Sounds like a great deal! Hope you and especially the wife enjoy your new Ford. Excellent choice!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Car buying ain't no fun no more. The internet is at fault for all of this. My last 3 purchases were as smooth as silk, almost no fun. Where have the good ole, 'I can lie better that you can', days gone.
Congratulations but it doesn't sound like you had any more fun than I did. :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The other side of all that information on the internet is all the hours I spent over the last month or so, looking for one.
This was the 3rd dealer we went to, but the first one we were actually got to the point of making a deal.
I don't miss those boiler room days!
*jmonroe, you really don't have to go on a long trek to find dealers who work deals the "old fashioned" way. There are lots of elderly retirees down here who go into the local Toyota dealership without a clue on how to buy a car using "cost/invoice plus" technique to buy their new car. Additionally, the have no clue about the real value of their trades. They are not computer literate or capable. Half of them can't see well enough to write down figures from a website like Edmunds, yet they have licenses to drive their trades into the dealership.
I've tried to help these retirees buy cars, but they are so set in their ways they truly don't understand the concept of cost +. They come up with a figure for their trade based upon emotion and take off thousands from the MSRP with no idea what the new car cost the dealer. That's shy it takes them so long to buy a car! The go in, make their offer, are told their offer is below invoice, and then go to the next dealership. Eventually, the fast-talking salesman show them, using paper and pen, what the deal should be, and they get taken to the cleaners.
We all know how to buy a car here - invoice + and wholesale value +/- a hundred or so, and we have a new car.
Here's what I'll pay OTD for your car + tax and title, no fees or any other add-ons, take it or leave it!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
We’ve been told by several sales guys on this forum that they would like to do business with us because we won’t waste their time. I understand that when the salesman knows that the buyer knows what is going on, rather than losing a sale they make it and move onto the next guy that walks in. Hoping that the next guy is a baby seal. With the way new car sales are today, if most buyers knew how to buy I have to think that a new car salesman would starve.
FWIW, talking about starving, Son #1 and his wife went to a comedy thing with some neighbors tonight so they wanted to know if they could drop off their 3 brats to eat dinner, spend the night then take them to Sunday school tomorrow morning. Mrs. j didn’t want to clean the kitchen again since she said I made a mess making breakfast this morning. Guess what I made 'tjc'? It wasn’t as bad as she makes it out to be, just one frying pan and a small pot. OK, a couple dirty dishes, a coffee mug and some silverware. We do have a dishwasher, you know, so what’s the big deal?
Now for the part you’ll like. She told our grandson’s we would go to (drum roll)....................... Chic-Fil-A but ONLY if they ordered the grilled chicken pieces (not the deep fried version) and NO FRIES. She talked them into a side of anything else but NO FRIES. I don’t think it’s quite fair to threaten them with somewhat healthy food but I have to admit it’s better than all the grease that kids eat today.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Nowadays, car salespeople, for the most part, make their money my earning bonuses and daily/weekly "spiffs" (mini bonuses or incentives) usually tied to numbers of units sold during a weekend or monthly.
I used to pay a $500 bonus at the end of the month if they reached 15 cars, $1000 bonus if they sold 20 cars in a calendar month, and $2500 if they sold 25 cars in a calendar month. Additionally, if they sold 3 cars on a weekend it was $300, 4 cars it was $400 and 5 cars it was $500.
My minimum deal for a salesperson was $150. So if they sold 15 cars and hit a few weekend spiffs, the could easily make $6000 in a given month. My top salespeople earned over $125,000 a year.
Only lazy or poor salespeople starved, but I usually fired them before they starved!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
A lot depends on the car and its intended use. For example, my Mazdaspeed 3 and 318ti would simply be ruined by a automatic- and they also get used on the track, and a manual is really the proper tool for that environment. As for my Wrangler, a TJ without three pedals is just wrong. On the other hand, my wife's 328i and my son's X3 are perfectly suited to an autobox.
That said, I'll take a stick, all things being equal- although I could see myself driving a really good DCT if I had to.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I double-clutch and heel-toe 100% of the time and I have yet to wear out a clutch. Yes, you do add some wear to the clutch actuation assembly, but I think it is negligible.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
That's the way I negotiate. Painless.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Escape (Congrats), but didn't hear the word "hybrid". Just wondering if it was
even a part of the buying process. If I remember correctly GG suggested
hybrid and I suggested against it. Did hauling the battery packs or their
technology help you decide? What engine did you get?
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Cograts Explorer....sounds like you got a great price and it all worked out as smoothly as possible. I was glad you didn't balk at being out by $50.
$350 a month is a safe amount of payments, and the dock fee is reasonable, at least not worth fighting.
You did very well, nicely done.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
My main impression from the test drive was that it did pretty well over some broken pavement.
It has the same turbo 4 they put in the Explorer and Edge, so it shouldn't be lacking for power.
I was worried about my wife thinking a 4cyl was weak engine, but she never mentioned any lack of power on either of our test drives.
It has the same 240 hp as our '09 Escape 3.0 V6, but is a 2.0 liter.
Richard
I do love it! What goes around comes around. What nerve this guy had---wanting to negotiate a deal on a new car. There is no limit to what some people will do to get a sale. Keep telling people what happened to you. It's beginning to get home to them.
Richard
We both work and she has a pretty good position.
Her down payment is the money she decided not to use on the last Escape she bought. Even then, it was more money than she took out as loan.
Back then, it made sense since you needed to do some financing to get a $500 incentive, but not this time.
Some things, you just don't argue, or at least, I don't.
Pork sausage Gravy: You will need the following---
2 pounds of fresh ground pork sausage
2 cups of milk (might not need all of it)
3/4 cup of all-purpose flour
salt and pepper to taste (I prefer more pepper than average.)
Directions:
1. Break up sausage in skillet and brown until done.
2. Remove sausage from skillet to a bowl and set aside.
3. To the drippings left in your skillet, add the flour and stir until all of your drippings are absorbed.
4. Slowly stir in the milk until the mixture becomes creamy. Don't let the mixture get watery. You may not need all of the milk.
5. Add your cooked sausage to the mixture. DON'T add any more milk once you have done this. If you do, you'll ruin the gravy!
6. Add salt and pepper to taste.
It makes about eight servings.
If you try it, i hope that you'll like it. In addition to biscuits and toast, I have actually used the gravy over pork chops and cubed steak. It added a little zest to the meal.
Richard
Jmonroe - awesome story about your uncle & how he severed his relationship with the dealer for you! That's CHUTZPAH & that's AWESOME!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Richard, it was me asking J for his sausage gravy recipe. I started the conversation, saying I thought Bob Evans restaurant had good gravy/biscuits. I now have two recipes to try!
We are getting super close to the wedding. Two more days of work and then Friday is the day.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart