Stories from the Sales Frontlines

driver100

My Prelude just fits me perfectly. I really get so much joy out of driving a 3000 lb, 4cyl, 5 speed manual transmission car with a lofty redline.

It's a good thing you decided to keep the Prelude. Usually fond memories are better than what the actual car was like, but, the memory is usually better than the real thing. Seems not so in this case.

driver100

jipster, in this particular case, hitting the panic button would have done me no good.

I know it wouldn't have helped you in this case but it could some other times........one of those red balls you put on your car arial.

Oh yeh, you're in Florida, forget it, there are already dozens of cars around with red balls on them.

isellhondas

Never have I seen such negitive comments directed to a new Honda model as with the 2012 Civics. Consumer Reports didn't even reccommend them.

But, just watch CR reccommend the 2012 Civics down the road as a good used car to buy. I lost all respect for CR a few years ago.

Granted, Honda didn't make as many changes as people would have liked. It's tough to take a top seller and make changes that people may or may not like so Honda took what they thought was the safe route.

I drove a 2012 Civic and loved it.

Jipster, I can't understand how you got such great mileage? That is FAR better than they advertise isn't it? Not a hybrid, right?

tjc78

I've sat in a 2012 base model and a fully loaded SI Civic. I see nothing wrong with the car for the class it is in.

Everyone that has one seems to love it.

CR is joke for cars IMHO.

robr2

Granted, Honda didn't make as many changes as people would have liked. It's tough to take a top seller and make changes that people may or may not like so Honda took what they thought was the safe route.

Craig - the problem wasn't that Honda didn't make as many changes as people would have liked. It's that Honda made changes that took them backwards. People were willing to pay more for a Civic because it was better than the competition. But Honda instead dumbed the '12 down (hard plastics, no blue tooth, numb steering) while the competition raised the bar.

I don't read Consumer Reports but even those left brained test engineers there could see that the 2012 Civic was a step down.

Is is a bad car? No. Is it a good car? Not when compared to its competition.

driver100

But Honda instead dumbed the '12 down (hard plastics, no blue tooth, numb steering) while the competition raised the bar.

Honda made a conscious business decision to try to keep the price of the Civic as low as possible because of the continuing recession. They made an excellent move, because sales were up almost 40% compared to the previous year.

In 2013, they did have to update the Civic, which they did, and they changed it just enough so it should have another successful year.

jipster

Jipster, I can't understand how you got such great mileage? That is FAR better than they advertise isn't it?

A Non-hybrid Civic LX is what I have.

I reset my tripmeter on entrance ramp to expressway. Basically tried to keep a steady rpm.. may have passed one slowpoke. It was about a 15 mile trip to pick up my son from school. I had been getting 40-43mpg before that. This time I made a conscious effort to squeeze as much mpg as I could. Speed limit was around 65mph, that's probably about what I averaged. EPA is 39 mpg highway, so I'm very excited to be getting hybrid like numbers...47mpg. Which Incidently is what the Ford Hybrid is suppose to get, but which Consumer Reports says it got only 41mpg hwy.

It's been raining off and on all day today. But, I'll check my numbers again when I leave to get my son in about 20 minutes.

Thinking of changing my username to jiplikeshondas.

robr2

They made an excellent move, because sales were up almost 40% compared to the previous year.

I was unaware of that. Then why did Honda do such a rush job to clean up a brand new model? Was it simply to improve the image in CR and the buff magazines?

tjc78

They are doing something right with the Civic:

- Segment-leading Civic breaks 22-year-old November record (1990) with sales of 30,075 units, up 75 percent from a year ago

Full Article

jipster

It's been raining off and on all day today. But, I'll check my numbers again when I leave to get my son in about 20 minutes.

O.k, back with the latest mpg report. After 7 highway miles I was on the verge of breaking the magic 50 mpg barrier! :surprise: This was in a steady rain going about 62 mpg.. slight highway inclines seemed to equal declines. On the exit ramp getting onto I-65 S there was an accident... someone had smashed into the concrete divider wall separating north and south bound lanes. I had to brake to about 30 mph for a few hundred feet, which dropped mpg down to 47 fairly quickly. Ran into some more traffic merging onto Watterson Expressway. Final reading was 41 mpg while getting onto exit ramp. (remember epa is 39 hwy)

To get a more accurate reading I reset tripmeter on the way back. I got 44 mpg in which their was light traffic, causing me to brake and slow down several times. So I think 50 mpg is easily doable... and 55 mpg not out of the question on longer drives.

I've tried to break the engine in with a variety of mostly light to moderate acceleration from a stop, varying speed on highway, and an occasional moderate to low heavy throttle at stop and at varying speeds. Don't know if this has helped, but it certainly hasn't hurt.

stickguy

some new people just moved into the neighborhood, and they have a black Prelude parked in the street of that vintage.

Have not walked by in the daylight to see if stick or AT. But I do know one headlight lens is all cloudy.

abacomike

Oh yeh, you're in Florida, forget it, there are already dozens of cars around with red balls on them.

Yes, red balls, flags, blue balls, orange balls, ribbons, to name a few. Most new cars don't have antennas any more - that's why these people keep their cars so long - without an antenna, they couldn't put a "signal" on their cars to alert them as to where they parked!

oldfarmer50

I lost my car exactly once in a mall parking lot. When my wife is in an evil mood she brings it up and giggles for hours.

Needless to say I never have lost it since.....or ever again. :mad:

stickguy

well, next time lose the wife instead!

mako1a

I was on the verge of breaking the magic 50 mpg barrier!

jip, I got 93 MPG with the Mustang. There is a stretch of I-77 that goes from Fancy Gap, Virginia into Northern North Carolina. It's about 3 1/2 miles long and goes from 3,400 ft to 1,500 ft elevation. So I reset my MPG meter at the top and stop at the bottom and take a pic of the 93 MPG Average. Beat that.

abacomike

I lost my car exactly once in a mall parking lot. When my wife is in an evil mood she brings it up and giggles for hours.

Needless to say I never have lost it since.....

Yes, it can be embarrassing, oldfarmer, very embarrassing!

jipster

It's about 3 1/2 miles long and goes from 3,400 ft to 1,500 ft elevation. So I reset my MPG meter at the top and stop at the bottom and take a pic of the 93 MPG Average. Beat that. .

Go back to Fancy Gap and drive up the thing this time for an average... then we'll talk.

abacomike

Go back to Fancy Gap and drive up the thing this time for an average... then we'll talk.

Be careful jipster, mako could beat that mpg by waiting for a good tail wind down the hill. He could break 100 mpg.

driver100

I was unaware of that. Then why did Honda do such a rush job to clean up a brand new model? Was it simply to improve the image in CR and the buff magazines?

I don't think so. I think they did it because it was time for a refresh, and the competition is pouring on the heat.

I think the plan was to make the Civic as thrifty as possible to boost volume and to maintain position. I think it worked.

But, you can't just rest on your laurels...the Civic was overdo for a makeover.

Sales were up substantially in 2012, but, you have to give the people who bought a Civic over the last 6 years to come back and buy another one.

driver100

without an antenna, they couldn't put a "signal" on their cars to alert them as to where they parked!

I forgot about that problem. Maybe they could have balloons you just hang out from your window, for us older people. I think I will submit my idea to Shark Tank!

oldfarmer50

"...take a pic of the 93 mpg...."

Well, if we're cheating like that, going down hill in the Caddy the instant milage readout tops out at 70 mpg. :P

(if you gun it from a stop light you can get it down to 3)

[Deleted User]

Sales were up substantially in 2012, but, you have to give the people who bought a Civic over the last 6 years to come back and buy another one.

It appears to me that Honda is hyping these huge November 2011 to November 2012 sales gains hoping everyone will forget they didn't have cars to sell this time last year. Production halted after the storm damage and subsequent nuclear reactor concerns, leaving essentially no cars on the dealer lots. Situations like that are what bite lean manufacturers in the rear end. Now that production is ramped up, they're fulfilling pent up demand in 2012. Of COURSE sales are up.

houdini1

That, plus the fact that there have been some very good deals on the '12s.

driver100

they're fulfilling pent up demand in 2012. Of COURSE sales are up

Excellent point!

driver100

hat, plus the fact that there have been some very good deals on the '12s.

And that, is a good point too.

robr2

I don't think so. I think they did it because it was time for a refresh, and the competition is pouring on the heat.

Actually the 2012 was a the all new 9th generation so it wasn't nearly time for a refresh.

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2011/02/2012-honda-civic-no-really-it-all-new.html

explorerx4

I prefer the measure fuel mileage over longer distances.
The best I have ever done is with my Mom's Fiesta from home here in CT, about 100 ft elevation, to Wilkes Barre PA, at some point passing 1200 ft elevation.
Out bound with 2 people 40.5 mpg, return with 3 people plus luggage 44+.
Overall, 405 miles on 9.5 gallons of gas for 42.6 mpg average.
The car is rated at 38 or 39 mpg highway.

bwia

Has anyone seen, test drive or purchased the new 2013 Toyota Avalon? In pictures it looks radical and youthful; and by the way, the hybrid delivers 40 MPG combined. The old Avalon attracted a demographic with an average age of 67 but Toyota is targeting the new Avalon to the 40 - 60 GenX crowd.

Regardless of what Toyota thinks the Avalon has that Grandpa image which is hard to shake. Besides, the 2013 Avalon is the perfect sedan for the baby boomer. Along in years but youthful in spirit, sort of what Viagra purports to do. As a former Avalon owner I very much like the new 2013 Avalon but that bass-mouth grill is a slight turnoff...but it is growing on me.

tjc78

I've had two Avalons and 03 and an 06. The new one is a huge step backward for me.

1:) It's smaller. What's the point? The Camry is for those who want a midsize.

2:) The front end is something only a mother could love.

3:) It rides hard (from all reports I'm reading).

What the heck? What is wrong with a large soft riding car? At this point all we are going to have is small, rough riding econo boxes.

mako1a

2013 Toyota Avalon

I bought a 2010 Avalon in 2009, kept it for 1 year and sold it back to the dealer with 7k miles on it. It doesn't make a bit of difference what year it is when the news says it "runs away" and your wife refuses to ride in it. I liked it myself and had no runaway problems. It had A/C seats and got 28 MPG Avg. But, like I said, the news can skewer any car with enough bad press. She has no problem riding in the Mustang.

jipster

I prefer the measure fuel mileage over longer distances.

Haven't been able to do that yet. In looking at the 2012 Honda Civic diescussion, there was one member who said he got 45 mpg highway, another said between 45-50 mpg.

driver100

Actually the 2012 was a the all new 9th generation so it wasn't nearly time for a refresh.

I just said it was a refresh, as explained in this review:
The 2013 Civic's update is more accurately called a refresh than a complete redesign. Still, changes are substantial—and immediately noticeable. The redesigned front fascia, new wheels and updated rear bumper are apparent after a quick walk-around. A reworked interior features an increased use of soft-touch materials.

Honda promises a quieter ride and better handing thanks to enhanced
sound-deadening and an improved steering system;

2013 Civic-Autoweek

driver100

new 2013 Toyota Avalon? In pictures it looks radical and youthfu

Looks OK to me....about the same as 100 other cars.


Actually, looks good from this angle;

driver100

who said he got 45 mpg highway, another said between 45-50 mpg.

Does that happen when you are following a transport truck with about 6 inches between you?

Like in this article;
The daredevils on Discovery's Mythbusters demonstrated that if you followed a big rig by 100 feet, you could decrease your fuel consumption by 11 percent. The intrepid duo pushed the envelope further by following a truck at only 10 feet--a dangerous maneuver we don't recommend viewers try at home!--and managed to decreased their gas consumption by 40 percent

robr2

ME - Actually the 2012 was a the all new 9th generation so it wasn't nearly time for a refresh.

YOU - I just said it was a refresh, as explained in this review:
The 2013 Civic's update is more accurately called a refresh than a complete redesign.

You are saying the 2013 is a refresh to which I agree but it's a refresh of the ALL NEW 2012 Civic. Refreshes are typically 2-3 years down the line for Honda - not 1.

IMHO, the only reason the did the refresh was to improve the cheap interior and improve the handling.

abacomike

You are saying the 2013 is a refresh to which I agree but it's a refresh of the ALL NEW 2012 Civic. Refreshes are typically 2-3 years down the line for Honda - not 1.

I agree - a refresh is usually 2-3 years into a new redesign. Most manufacturers keep a redesign of a model for about 5 years before the next redesign. If you keep a car for 4-5 years or more, the best buys on new cars is 1-3 months before the introduction of a redesign.

The reason for that is manufacturer rebates and cash incentives to dealers. When I was in the business, toward the end of an older model's life, we used to get $2000-$3000 in manufacturer to dealer incentives in addition to consumer incentives and interest rates. That's why we rarely had any left-overs after December. You could get $6000 - $7000 off MSRP on a $35000 car or SUV. I'm sure all of us have bought cars just before the intro of a redesign and saved thousands of dollars.

In 2009, just before Mercedes came out with their total redesign of the E350, dealers had a $6000 incentive to consumers. I got a friend of mine a 2009 E350 in August of that year for $10,000 below MSRP. He still has it.

28firefighter

My parents called me this week to inform me that my Mom was ready to go back to driving something bigger with 4 doors - preferably an SUV. They did a whole bunch of test driving this week and settled on the XC60 T6 in some fashion.

They ended up trading her 2011 A5 on a 2012 XC60 Premium Plus demo with 5000 miles. Not too many details on it yet, they're picking it up next week. From what I can tell, original MSRP was just over 46k, sale price was just under 34k.

More details once they pick it up.

oldfarmer50

"...followed a big rig by 100 feet..."

In my youth when traveling for business and not wanting tickets I would find a speeding big rig and tailgate to avoid being detectable by radar. Sometimes the trucker would freak and hit his brakes. Made for an exciting ride snd I never did get a ticket.

Being that I was young and of course immortal I judged it an acceptable risk. :sick:

cdnpinhead

in modern NA (fuel injected) vehicles is noticeably improved at elevation, but of course power drops accordingly. I've gotten close to 40 mpg in CO and NV, among other places, in my Acura that gets more like 28-32 mpg nearer MSL where it spends most of its time.

Plus which the first 10-15 minutes is when the oil (and the rest of the engine) is coming up to temperature and the fuel mileage is at its worst. If all you do is 30-45 minute commutes, that's a factor, too.

It's possible to get truly legendary fuel mileage on an all-day drive above 5000 ft.

cdnpinhead

in modern naturally-aspirated fuel injected vehicles is noticeably lower at elevation, but of course power drops accordingly. I've gotten close to 40 mpg in CO and NV, among other places, in my Acura that gets more like 28-32 mpg nearer MSL where it spends most of its time.

Plus which the first 10-15 minutes is when the oil (and the rest of the engine) is coming up to temperature and the fuel mileage is at its worst. If all you do is 30-45 minute commutes, that's a factor, too.

It's possible to get truly legendary fuel mileage on an all-day drive above 5000 ft.

driver100

IMHO, the only reason the did the refresh was to improve the cheap interior and improve the handling.

Agree 100%. Also agree with the use of the word "refresh".

Seems it can mean different things depending on how it is used. I think the 2012 should be called more than a refresh...maybe makeover, 2013 is a refresh. And, it seems Honda wanted to upgrade the interior in 2013.

[Deleted User]

Today I had a chance to start the engine work on the Grand Caravan I mentioned previously. I took a before photo, and another when I finally had all the components removed:

Grand Caravan work

There were a total of 27 sensor/hose connections that I labeled along the way, and I took photos of each step along with creating a written description of the procedure...just in case. Not too bad of a job, but very time consuming. Surprisingly all the fasteners came out with ease. There were a couple of fragile sensor connectors due to plastic deterioration over time, but the damaged are being replaced anyway.

Replacement parts come in Monday, so next week I'll start piecing everything back together with the new seals.

abacomike

It's possible to get truly legendary fuel mileage on an all-day drive above 5000 ft.

cdnpinhead, there is less oxygen at 5000 feet than there is at 100 feet on a given cubic foot of air. So one would think that an internal combustion engine would not burn fuel as economically at higher altitudes. Of course the atmosphere is thinner so less drag, I would imagine. Wouldn't those two "givens" even each other out - or be mutually exclusive?

roadburner

To get a $50 Macy's gift card. The salesman wasn't all that happy and I sympathize, but $50 is $50- and he needs to gripe to Chevrolet's ad agency- not me. As for the drive itself, the Malibu is a very nice car for a non-enthusiast, it is well appointed and drives acceptably well. While it is not a car I would ever consider, it is a legitimate competitor to the Camry and other family cars in that segment.

roadburner

I've had a bit of a problem with a pinched nerve in my back, the good news is that the Recaros in the 2002 are perfect for long drives- almost as good are the sport seats in the Mazda and in the ti. So the '02 won't be sold for a bit longer- it is still just about my favorite drive. I've said it before, but a '73 tii with upgraded A/C may yet become my daily driver. No electronic nannies, wonderful steering, small, and light... Perfect:

mako1a

less oxygen at 5000 feet

With Fuel Injection, the optimum combustible mixture would be maintained by computer. Less oxygen should use less fuel.

oldfarmer50

"...perfect..."

Is that the original paint on that beauty?

tjc78

RB,
Not cost effective to add A/C to yours?

driver100

So the '02 won't be sold for a bit longer-

That's a great looking car....some cars look even better with age.

My friend who has the 2012 Maserati ($130000) is driving his winter car, 2012 Fiat 500 ($18000), and he said he loves the Fiat. It is roomy, easy to drive, zips through the city, and when he parks it he doesn't ever have to worry about someone hitting it. His life has become more enjoyable in the Fiat.

isellhondas

You should have just aked that salesperson to sign off your form so you wouldn't have had to waste his and your time test driving a car you would never consider.

Honda only did that trick once. For some dumb reason, they offered a pair of Walkie Talkies for a test drive. Did that ever bring in the strokes!

A lot of the "shoppers" were upfront and let us know that they were NOT in the market to buy a new car. We would be happy to sign off thier cards.

As far as I remember, we didn't sell one car as a result of that event.