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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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Today I drove by it and noticed that the wood pile had gotten noticeably thinner.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
It is fine to ask the dealer for an OTD price, but don't expect them to always give you one.
Then find another dealer.
Second that.
Non illigitmati carborundum.
-ss4
I've mentioned this on a couple of threads. I've never been a proponent of Extended Service Contracts even though I'm in the business. That's a little heresy in most parts.
However I've been noticing more and more now over the last several years that the risks to the normal consumer are far out of proportion to the cost of protection especially in the area of electronics.
It used to be that your 21 y.o. nephew could 'fix' most vehicles. Certainly Joe down at the corner could. Now that's impossible. The tools and the diagnostics needed run hundreds of thousands of dollars. Then you have to call the manufacturer anyway.
While a lot of electronic controls can be reflashed to change some thing and there are certainly less parts than before those remaining parts are a lot 'smarter' and more powerful than before. $1400, $2000 and $2500 ECU's are allover almost every new vehicle now.
I would not be dealing with any place that is bumping their inventory with unwanted dealer add-ons. you know what i'm talking about.
If they're vin-etching, or mop and glowing, turn around and run.
Unless it is a simple brake job, oil change or Strut replacment then I can't do it.
For example a four or five year old Audi A4 or A6 that needs an engine is totalled. Same thing if it needs a tranny. Pick just about any midline to highline car and if they need a driveline component replaced that that is the end of the car.
I wouldn't have been comfortable selling it to a private party either, and if I were a dealer that took that car in on trade, I wouldn't want to put it on my lot unless the tranny were fixed.
Don't worry everyone has typos every now and again. Thinking about it 30 hours is a long time to take to fix a tranny.
However I've been noticing more and more now over the last several years that the risks to the normal consumer are far out of proportion to the cost of protection especially in the area of electronics.
I would agree with that in the area of electronics, especially cutting edge (and even bleeding edge) stuff that runs thousands of dollars. However I wouldn't recommend them in most cases. Certainly not in cars unless its a high end car with plenty of new stuff in it to go wrong.
Typically most cars will experience a lot of trouble either before it hits 40-50K miles or well over 100K miles. Of all the cars I, my wife my family and friends have had I don't think there was one that had enough issues during the time an extended warranty would have been in effect to warrant the cost.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The SMT on the MR2 worked fine when the ECU and the pump it controlled weren't fighting with each other.
As I mentioned I never opted for them in the past 35 years and as long as I stayed with Honda or Toyota it was never an issue. This time it was. But we got out from underneath is in good order with market value and no repair costs.
The warranty companies know what they are doing too. We use the largest one in the country. We recently sold a V-8 supercharged Jaguar. The price for the warranty was almost 10,000! The customer declined.
There are some cars out there they refuse to sell warranties on at ANY price!
Think they might know something?
The vans have all the same specs.
I have asked for and received out-the-door pricing from some. I guess I assumed that the pricing would be closer together. I received quite a range. This range of prices may be typical - I'm not familiar enough with the process to know. I have received lower offers from each and I have informed them that we are ready to purchase tomorrow if the price is right. How close to invoice can I reasonably expect them to go? Shouldn't their invoice amounts be the same or at least very close? Any ideas? THANKS!
I second that as well also. I post on some occasions but consider myself more of a lurker than an avid poster. I do appreciate those of you in the biz taking your time to post here and I have learned so much from you folks.
So hang in there, please!
BTW, if you think this thread can be nasty, have you ever gotten into the "defend GM at all costs" boards on News and Views? There is this one guy with a number instead of a name who's particularly insulting to anyone who dares to criticize hallowed GM. He's also infamous for "duking it out" with Karl Brauer.
you know a dealership *may* sell a vehicle below invoice, and still make a profit. however, there's nothing stating that that is the going rate.
and it's also going to depend on things like trim and location.
also, you know when you get major service work done, all dealerships will definitely NOT charge you the same amount.
so - how is that possible?
do you know if there are any manufacturer to dealer incentives on now? any special financing terms?
you got "OTD" pricing, and now they've gone lower, and you think there's even more room.
i think you don't really know what their invoice prices are to be honest with you.
you can ask, but these salesman aren't likely to tell you.
good luck.
I understand that quality in cars like the Sonata are Azera are pretty good. I never said that they're bad cars. I just said that typically Hyundai buyers care more about price and payments then those two items I mentioned before.
I may be wrong, as I don't work in a Hyubdai lot, but I think I'm not far off from the truth.
And I don't mean to bash Hyundai product, I acutally think the Azera is one of the nicer looking sedans out there. I like the looks fof it and think it's not a bad car for the money.
Peace out everyone
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I sorta volunteered and said I can help him (since I like new toys and gadgets).
That is until I saw the 600 page owner's manual for the car and told him "You're on your own buddy!" :P
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Friend worked at a high pressure dealership told me some of the things the managers used to do (which is why he left after a short stint):
Customer that was in trying to make a deal on a car was turned over to the sales manager. The customer was asking for some sort of a discount. The manager called all of the sales guys into the office where the customer was and told the customer "Tell me how much discount you want again!"
The customer said it and all of the salesguys who were standing around the customer started laughing at him and shouting that ity's impossible. :surprise: :surprise:
Same dealership, manager was trying to close a customer, and when the customer wouldn't buy, the manager got up and stood up on his chair and was shouting at him trying to close him. :confuse: :confuse:
Every customer I get that visited that store always tells me how bad the service is there. No surpise they have very high turn over, with sales people coming and going on a weekly basis.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
More importantly, we never owned a European car that was out of warranty. Most European cars come with 4yr/50K warranties, which helps a little. On a couple occasions we've purchased Certified used cars that provide up to 100K warranty coverage. Out of the nine European cars we've owned/leased, only the '96 A4, which was the first model year here in U.S., provided us with more than a couple of service issues.
I can't debate long-term reliability issues, but for the first 50K miles, I think we had better reliability on average from our BMWs and Volvos than we did with our more complex luxury vehicles from Japanese makes, such as the Acura MDX or our Lexus RX330.
Having said all that, we have a Toyota 4Runner that is about to go out of warranty. It's a base 2wd model without the bells and whistles. I have no plans to extend its warranty.
I'd love to see that in someone's CarSpace album!
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Could it be the same guy? :surprise:
Years ago I worked with a guy (friend) that went into one of these high pressure dealerships and when he couldn’t get his price and was ready to leave, in walks the sales manager. The sales manager says they can’t do the deal and my friend was being unreasonable because he wouldn’t come up about $300 (early 70’s) so my friend gets up to leave again. The sales manager gets onto a chair then jumps onto the desk screaming, “don’t you walk away when I’m talking to you, you SOB”. As he’s screaming and waving his arms over his head he knocks down two 8 ft. fluorescent fixtures from the suspended ceiling and all four tubes fall out, hit the desk and floor and explode. He said the sound was quite loud as you can imagine.
My friend said he was laughing so hard that he was doubled over and as he was headed to the door everyone in the show room was running towards the office to see what had happened.
Who knows, maybe this sales manager was fired and had to leave the country to find another job.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I recently purchased a 2007 Volvo XC90. Afterwards, I received a letter to complete the customer survey on-line...which I did. I rated everything very good or excellent except the following three things:
1. When asked if I was introduced to the service department, I said "NO". It was closed when I picked up the car.
2. When asked if the car was delivered without defects, I said "NO". There were several large dents on the hood that I did not notice until I got the vehicle home in my garage with the brighter lighting. (Since then repaired.)
3. When asked about finance/checkout process, I said "Fair" or "Poor", I can't remember exactly. I was called on the last day of the month after previous negotiations failed. They said "If we give you the deal (trade, lease terms) that you wanted, will you buy the car today?" I said yes, but I have 2 kids (2 and 1) and would like to get in and out asap. They already had credit app, license, insurance info from previous visit. It then took over THREE hours to get out...over two just to see the finance guy. It was way past my babies bed time and I was going to be late for work.
Now, today, my wife gets a phone call from the sales lady. She is upset with us and is scolding my wife for not giving her a good evaluation. First of all, that is WAY inappropriate. Second, I did not mean to "ding" her at all. She and the sales manager did a good job. My only criticism was the wait for finance.
I was going to call the GM of the dealer or contact Volvo to see if I can improve her score. I know it affects her pay and did not mean to hurt her. But now after the "scolding"... I'm not so sure.
Any advice?
I don't know where these monkeys come from, but when my friend told me about it I was surprised stuff like that still happens.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I would brush it off. Had I taken the call I would have put an immediate end to the rudeness. It may make you feel better to file a complaint with the owner/manager of the dealership.
In any case, you may also want to visit Customer Satisfaction Surveys.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Well, it's too late at this point. You killed your salesperson on her survey.
She shouldn't have called your wife. That was very unprofessional and the damage was done.
I'll never understand why people can't get babysitters when they buy cars.
Let it stand.
They did not introduce you to the service department. Fair enough it was closed but they could have offered to do so at a later date.
The car was not delivered without defects. Defects of that nature should have been corrected before delivery.
Your finance department experience was poor.
The fact that, by answering the questions honestly, you dinged your salesperson is regrettable. However, the problem is with the system and should not be your concern.
Like isellhondas, it seems I've been on these boards an awfully long time (pre-dates Edmunds actually keeping stats about when we joined or the number of posts we've made). I've seen tons of people come and go (hosts included). For the most part, I think the majority of people just want some honest, friendly advice.
Another sales story......
This was several years ago, but a college friend of mine was a "car geek" (even more than me). He had read a book that inspired him by some car salesman touting how he could make $100K+ selling cars. This was easily 20 years ago as we were both freshly out of college.
Well, he didn't really have any sales experience, let alone car sales experience. After going to several different high line dealerships, and being turned down for a sales job, he hooked up with a domestic "churn and burn" store. As some of the car salespeople may attest to when they were "green peas", his first calls were to family and friends to come buy a car from him.
Being fresh out of college and getting that first "real" job, I had a little jingle in my pocket and went to visit him. This was at a time when the domestic manufacturers were building just horrid cars, quality-wise. I didn't know what I wanted, except I did know I was leaning towards either a Honda or Toyota. Again, this was a time when the public was much more sensitive about oil prices than they are today. "The Big 3" were caught with their pants down and really didn't have anything of particular interest to a young guy like me (even their V8 muscle cars of the time were, at best, tepid). These were the Iacocca Chrysler "bail out" years. In addition, Honda and Toyota (as well as the diesel VW Rabbit) had the cars of choice for people in my age group. Honda and Toyota (and to a lesser degree, VW) could ask, and GET, whatever price they wanted on their iron (think ADM stickers).
Back to my green pea friend. He was at a Chevy store. GM had come out with the "J-series" FWD cars. These were their 4-cyl little cars that were supposed to compete with Civics and Corollas. I forget what the Chevy version of the "J" was called, but that's whan my friend steered me to. I remember the test drive. The GM 4 cyl engine was corse, unrefined, slow. It had numb, overboosted steering and woeful braking. It had the build quality of a Yugo (for those of you not familiar with Yugos, they were exported here from the former Yugoslavia). The J-cars just couldn't compete with the Corollas and Civics.
Well, as the test drive is finished, we get back to my friends desk. He introduces me to someone else who pulls out the old "4-square". I really didn't want the car, but in deference to my friend, I begrudgingly go through the ritual. MSRP is the stated price on the 4-square. No one asks me if I want to buy the car. Mr. 4 square asks me to sign the paper. I tell him I want to shop around some more. Well, he asks me to wait a minute until someone else comes to the desk. This guy is the "closer". He begins to tell me of all the new technology in the J car....how Chevy is building the car that will drive Honda and Toyota out of our country. I still resist.
Again, I'm asked to wait. Here comes the sales manager. In his benevolence, he starts throwing some discounts at me, "but only because I'm a friend". Still, as I tell him, I don't want the car. This is repeated several times, no matter what the discount. Things get a bit out of hand when the sales manager tells me I'm unpatriotic for considering a Honda or Toyota. He goes on to say how he was a Vietnam Vet and bled "red, white and blue" for indigents like me, and how my friend shouldn't even associate with me. Finally, he kicks me out of the dealership for being a "commie" and for wasting his time.
My friend calls me later in the day and asks me what happened. I tell him and wish him luck, because his product isn't very good, his management is even worse. He did do well at that dealership (don't think he ever made that promised $100K/year, though).
I lost track of him quite a while ago. From what I gather, he stayed in the car business for about 10 years, bouncing around different dealerships. But last I heard, he was a stock broker somewhere in Chicago.
The poster stated that they were called on the last day of the month, and were asked to do their deal that day. It is often hard to line up a sitter with no advanced notice, and they did forewarn the dealer that they had, and were bringing their 2 kids.
But she shouldn't have been nasty to your wife. I had a Realtor do this to my wife, and I called him back to chew him out, as he was similarly unprofessional.
I guess I was thinking about the couple who brought a two year old last week. He about distroyed my office and he whined and yelled the whole time.
A car dealership is no place for young kids!
That I agree with. Not only is it an annoyance to you, but it is also a distraction to the other customers trying to negotiate their own deals. Not to mention, bringing out of control kids to dealerships (and other places) is just plain rude.
Quote #2 ...some of them(posters) are just mean spirited and sarcastic
LOL... you do understand what the word "sarcastic" means don't you? (note to newer members, isell knows fully well I have been a member of these forums for almost 3 years... he is being "sarcastic". (GASP/GROAN)
As one of the sales people, I have been called a liar, ridiculed and slammed many times
You're a sensitive soul... nothing wrong with that. But, most of the posts I have read, where you think people are calling you a liar and slamming you, are posts where they are saying they just don't believe your "facts", and are simply challenging your position... nothing wrong with that.
Unfortunately when these stories get told we get pounced on...
I remember a brash young newbee...goes by the name of madmanmoo. He had some of the best sales stories I have ever
read on these forums. He was "pounced" on by yourself... and several of your peers. He too vowed to leave and never return. That is until this peacemaker, by the name of Jipster, stepped in to calm the storm. Moo has since returned(thankfully), but having to be politically correct has taken the edge off some of the stories he can tell.
If people want stories, they need to mellow out
Agreed... now come down off that high horse of yours and give us some sales stories.
vowing never to return only to receive a bunch of emails asking me to return.
Yeah... I get e-mails like that all the time too.
Yeah... stop asking and start telling. It is a bit unreasonable to ask for the dealerships best price and expect to get it. Look at the Honda Ody Price discussion and see what they are going for. Then tell the dealership this is what you will pay.
Last I looked(about 6 months ago) Odys were generally going for less than invoice(may have had dealer incentive)So, invoice is certainly reasonable.
So true, so true! Young, impressionable children should never have to behold how sausage is made and how car dealers operate.
LOL... you can come up with some good ones from time to time bobst. :P
He is at a farmhouse and, while trying to avoid the affections of the over-eager farmer's daughter Rita, he gets in an altercation with her papa. Hope you aren't too young to appreciate Dylan. Here are a few lines:
I had to say something
To strike him very weird,
So I yelled out,
"I like Fidel Castro and his beard."
I said, "I like Fidel Castro,
I think you heard me right,"
And ducked as he swung
At me with all his might.
Rita mumbled something
'Bout her mother on the hill,
As his fist hit the icebox,
He said he's going to kill me
If I don't get out the door
In two seconds flat,
"You unpatriotic,
Rotten doctor Commie rat."
That is insane. I don't know the Jaguar Certified warranty prices off the top of my head but even without looking them I know they are less.
A Land Rover Assured warranty through Land Rover on a Supercharged Range Rover is less money then that. I think it runs around 6,500 dollars for a 100,000 mile warranty. A Supercharged range rover has the same engine and transmission as a Supercharged Jag but it is 4wd with a worse repair history then the jag. You think the jag would be less.
Thanks for the stroll down memory lane.
if you cannot bring your children with you to the dealership ***and in this case, once negotiations are over***, that's perhaps a very good sign it's not the dealership you should be dealing with, yes/no?
that CSI system is poor, but there are times a dealership needs to be flexible and accomodating when the situation demands.
and in this case, it was the dealership trying to re-engage the customer to do a deal they dropped before.
what is up with that? double reason for poor numbers on their part IMHO.
and honestly, i can see where sometimes people are well advised to bring their kids and the car seats and try out a new vehicle before making the deal.
i'm not saying the survey system is good. i know it isn't, but how many ways did they blow it? calling the wife at home - is evidence the score was appropriate IMHO.
i'm curious, would you have any words of wisdom for this purchaser now that the dealership was dinged on the CSI? is he or his wife gonna have problems with servicing their car there?
Many dealers pay bonuses based on CSI scores, so if her average drops she could be out a decent chunk of change.
The problem is the survey system. The salesperson gets the blame no matter what the problem was.
The salesperson wasn't directly responsible for your F&I experience, or the dings on the car.
Honestly, dealers and motor co's don't want your feedback.
They just want a perfect score.
Usually, the salesperson coaches the customer before they leave about how important the survey is and how to answer it. It isn't exactly ethical, but it is done almost all the time.
yeah, that's terrible. like if you get off to a bad start and you think the customer is going to ding you, you're not likely to sell to the customer, right?
on the flip side, does saying something like: "if we can do this deal...you'll have CSI scores all 5 down the line" hurt or help your chances of closing the deal? :shades:
The few people I have had do that didn't hold up their end of the bargin.