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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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A one year old Buick Lacrosse CXS with that Cadillac suspension and the 3.6VVT - it's an astounding piece of engineering. Basically it's a Buick CTS for a lot less money. Just FWD instead of RWD, and not stickshift. Expect to pay maybe $15-18K right now for a one year old certified model. Seats 6 in a pinch with the bench seat option. Way way *way* better than any crossover or micro suv.
If you want AWD, realize that the part-time AWD systems everyone uses are junk in real world situations - and get an Audi with Quattro, A Subaru, or Volvo XC70.(the only three full-time AWD systems in the U.S.)
If you want a SUV, realize that it's not a real SUV by any means.
The thing is that the CR-V and the RAV-4 and the rest are all cars looking for a place to exist. Compromise handling, compromise utility, compromise sytyling, and compromise gas mileage. It's as if someone sais "hey, let's build a car that's a bit of everything but is great at nothing!" You'll be much happier in the long run of you just go out and get something that really fits your needs.
Terry always posted over on the RWTV thread here.
He always commented on the ROWS and double line auction
action on many hyundai or kia vehicles. Esp. the BIG
auction lines of the announced lemon or buy back korean
sleds that IF they sold went for pennies on the dollar.
Sure some dealers might hoodwink the non-Edmunds buyer
into paying top dollar. But for us in the know!
It was just a thought for Mark instead of paying full boat
$$$$ on a honda and let the dealer think hes doing him
a favor by selling him or anyone a vehicle.
I wonder if it will have 10 miles on it????????????
Since most of the people that I know who have bought Odysseys are people who had been either GM owners or had had problems with a Chrysler minivan, maybe there is a market for RELIABLE vehicles in that segment.
What is the difference between a Suburban and an Odyssey ... other than 10 mpg and a less truck like ride.
I had a Dodge Caravan and would get one again if I needed a van. The thing gave me no issues at all.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
well, a vehicle should be an appliance in terms of reliability and easy functioning.
If Korean cars appeal to you, by all means, try to find one a year old. That way a person can take advantage of the terrible way they depreciate!
Advising someone to buy an Audi or a Volvo however, is something I sure wouldn't do. These are nothing but trouble as they age.
For cars that are "looking for a place to exist", CRV's and RAV4's aren't doing too badly it would seem since they are outselling the blazes out of the other cars you seem to favor!
Bingo!!! That's what Toyota and Honda did. They're not for everyone, but for someone who wants just a little bit of the utility in SUV. I had a 99 CRV and it was the most reliable and inexpensive vehicle I've ever had.
So it's simpler:
Need 7+ passengers? Van/minivan/big SUV(your choice entirely here)
Need AWD? Just get a SUV.
Need a SUV? Just get a SUV.
But if as I suspect, you want a 6 passenger vehicle with good handling, just get a 6 passenger sedan.
Check this out.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=216594931
Keep in mind that this has a 4 year/50K conprehensive and a 5/100K drivetrain warranty. Reliability issues aren't a concern. The car is fast, has zero throttle-lag(VVT to the rescue) and handles about as well as a base CTS(without the sport package, though). And it seats 6 people without being the size of a Crown Vic.(bench seat isn't that hard to find, actually, and makes the car feel much larger inside) Traction control, lower CG, and stability control all make it actually safer in bad weather than any micro SUV as well(other than the Subarus, but they aren't half as reliable as the Buicks)
I bet you could haggle to 18K quite easily.
Subaru, anyone? Of course not for everybody, but don't say there is no reliable AWD around. :mad:
And by the way - saying that Honday is an appliance and then pushing Buick as an exciting alternative is beyond funny.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Quite a few of my friends are buying Expeditions because Ford doesn't make a big wagon anymore, they hate it, they feel like they are driving a UPS truck, but they have no choice. And AWD is an unnecessary feature in any part of the country, no matter how often you tell yourself otherwise.
Fortunately the SUV's are, year by year, evolving back into station wagons.
Easy Functioning? You should see our microwave. :sick:
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Time to invest in a dictionary.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Of course you would say that, you have a vested interest in people paying more for less.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I have lived in places where AWD was absolutely needed on most of the roads at times. They would even broadcast warnings that unless you were on the main road or in town don't go on the roads unless you had 4WD.
Anyways I have a smaller wagon (an Elantra) and its been a very useful in hauling stuff. Very reliable too.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You should be able to. I have an '00 with 141K miles on it and its still running strong. Only had one thing go wrong and that was at about 120K miles. Mt daughter has an '02 pushing 100K and she has had no issues with it. My nice has what you have and '05 with around 50K on it with no issues.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
After reading some more of your posts, I realized you were talking about a Hyundai.
To each his own, I suppose.
I won't get into the resale part again.
When I have customers shopping for used cars and one of our Hyundais fits the budget better than a used Honda, I have no qualms in steering them that way.
There are worse choices for sure. I recently sold our next door neighbor a used Jetta. I tried my best to steer her in a different direction. I had her dad research VW's and he agreed with me. I showed her a couple of used Civics and even a nice Saturn but, nope, it HAD to be that "pretty blue" Volkswagen. It's been a year now and other then the hood release cable breaking for the second time, it's been OK. I did tell them that I didn't want to hear about it when it had troubles.
Unless the resale values improve on Korean cars, they will never be a good car to lease. Quite the contrary. In order to offer an attractive lease, the car has to have a high residual value in order to keep the lease payments attractive.
Things could someday change I suppose?
Broadcasting that you can't drive unless you have 4WD is ridiculous and irresponsible. So if I have 4WD and bald all seasons tires that's ok?
Broadcasts like that are the reason why you see so many SUV's in ditches along the highway. 4WD does not help you stop on snow/ice, or prevent you from sliding off into a ditch, not in the least.
The responsible thing to do is broadcast warnings that you need chains in those cases (mountainous regions), or studded snows in less severe cases. In the region I live we have a few roads that have signs that say only chains allowed during snowfall. If you have 4WD and all seasons you might get up some of these roads, but your going off a cliff going down.
AWD is not a replacement for chains/snows tires, no matter what the commercials are telling you, it's just common sense, you need tire traction to stop.
But if you have an issue with those warnings you can always contact the borough and the state, they were the ones issuing the warnings.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
<Groan!>
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
otoh, you can't do anything about the size of the vehicle.
Well first off that would be illegal in most states. So the answer to your question is no.
AWD is not a replacement for chains/snows tires, no matter what the commercials are telling you, it's just common sense, you need tire traction to stop.
While there are times you need to have chains, 4WD and AWD drive can come in really handy sometimes. Chains are great but don't work well in conditions that are patchy ice or snow. Running them on pavement tears the hell out of everything. It sucks having to get out, get wet and cold, every time there is a little snow on the ground, so you can put on your chains. If you know how to drive a 4WD there is no reason you should end up off the road. Like you said it just takes a little common sense. Something that most of the city slicker SUV drivers don't seem to have when they encounter snow.
Why would you even think of buying another one? How many times do you have to be told that Hyundai’s have a horrible resale value? You should be glad when you bury yours and you can get out from under that false economy Hyundai product and buy a Honda. Then you will have a real machine with good resale value.
Then again, if I sold Honda’s and was having my lunch eaten for the last 4 to 5 years by Hyundai I wouldn’t like it either. :sick:
Sounds pretty much like whistling as you pass the grave yard if you asked me but then nobody did ask me. :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Check this out.
It might help if this was a 6 passenger sedan, I guess it could be if someone set on the console :sick:
OTOH, the base GM 3.8L V6 isn't a toad in the LaCrosse CXL. This is even less expensive(22-25K is common, new, depending on the rebates) and the 6 passenger seating is easy to find.
Fits 6, is the same size as a Accord/Camry/etc, and drives like a car.(the Lucerne is a boat without the high-end suspension option)
Me? I had to fit 6 people in my car only on long family trips with a pair of grandparents in tow.
Most people do not understand the fact that AWD and 4WD systems will help you get up and going, and it helps if you have steep driveways, BUT they will not help you stop.
Most people don't take that into consideration, and for us we get about 1 week of snow a year, so I have to ask them if it's worth spending the extra bucks on a 4WD system for that one week when they will probably avoid driving in the first place.
As for the multiple seating, I always ask why they need it. Most people mention that it's for when they get out of town visitors about once every year or two.
So once again I tell them to get a car or a CRV instead of a van or Pilot, and with the money they save they could easily rent a car for their visitors and still be ahead in savings.
Multiple seating vehicles are good if you do have a large family that you transport regualrly, but not for the occasional visitors. Or if you need the space to haul stuff.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Because the one I currently have has been the most reliable car I have ever had.
How many times do you have to be told that Hyundai’s have a horrible resale value?
Many times but read back about what I have said about resale value.
Then again, if I sold Honda’s and was having my lunch eaten for the last 4 to 5 years by Hyundai I wouldn’t like it either.
Thats why I pretty much ignore what any salesman says about the competition.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
with the Honda "real time" 4wd systems, I was under the assumption that since the extra 2 wheels were only powered, as needed, there wasn't that much of a sacrifice in MPG. When you look at Honda's website, for the Pilot it shows 18/24 (2wd) and 17/22 (4wd). For the CR-V, it states 23/30 (2wd) and 22/28 (4wd).
What I am getting at, is buying this type of 4wd system doesn't seem as wasteful as a full time 4wd, or AWD system where all 4 wheels are continuously getting some power. When we bought my wife's Element, we got the 4wd model since it was only a couple hundred dollars more than the deal we were being offered on the 2wd model. This may or may not pay for itself in resale, but, by going with the 4wd, we got the sunroof (have to get 4wd in order to get the sunroof in the Element).
I do agree with what you said about a customer buying a vehicle to seat 6 or 7, just for the 1 or 2 times per year when they will have guests. After all, one can get a pretty good week long rental rate on a mini van, or large SUV from the major rental companies.
Most people don't take that into consideration, and for us we get about 1 week of snow a year, so I have to ask them if it's worth spending the extra bucks on a 4WD system for that one week when they will probably avoid driving in the first place.
I agree it will not help you stop but can really help with maintaining control. Really you should never be following so close to another car in the snow that stopping is a huge issue. Especially with AWD (which I have never owned) it is really nice when you hit the occasional icy patches.
I do agree with you that most people buy way more car than they really need. I have never owned a 2WD truck but then again I grew up in the mountains. Now I live in Southern California I would not get a 4WD just because there is little need and the price difference. Where I grew up in Northern California it was almost a necessity for 4 months a year. My parents are in their late 60's and wouldn't think of having a car that was not 4WD. Mom and Dad are not really able to put chains on anymore and if they need to get over the mountain it is a huge help.
Here in seattle, it rarely snows but this year was a miserable exception. It'll probably be another five years before it snows again.
Still, it is better to have 4WD and not need it then to need it and not have it!
-Moo
Why such a pessimistic future view for them? Well.... it's easy: Recall if you will that both GM and Ford are stepping away from the Rental Fleet business. The rational for this move is that the fleet car sales crush the resale value of their vehicles - is it not so said, eh?
Well the demand for rental fleet vehicles hasn't gone down. Hertz, et al, still has to get cars somewhere. Where is somewhere? From Hyundai.
Hyundai, which already have lousy resale values, aren't likely to sell that resale value improved by having the rental fleets dump tons of them into the used car market every year.
In fact, why would anyone buy a new one, when they could buy one a year old from a rental fleet? We know (from the evidence presented here
So it's clear: Hyundai's will continue to have the resale value of two day old bread.
Now let's resume our normally scheduled broadcast of stories. I'll start:
"A lady walked into a (Brand Name Here) dealership. Her two kids are wandering the sales floor. The boy, probably seven or eight, has taken a liking to the sound of slamming the rear driver's side door of a (model name here). Every time he does it he giggles. His sister, probably two and a half or three is wandering among the vehicles, with her pacifier in her mouth....jam all over her little dress, sticky hands touching every fender and door as she wobbles around. You are at your desk, cold calling, when she spies you and walks deliberately to up to you.
What's the first thing she says, and will she buy a car TODAY?
There... we're started - you guys take it from here. :shades:
In a case like that it is wise to put down a deposit to hold the car.
But since you are looking at CR-V's have you thought about a Tucson? You can get one with AWD and a V-6 for about the same as you can get a CR-V with FWD and a 4 cylinder engine. So it would make sense to at least check them out.
Snake you are right, I should have put down a deposit. What made me wait was the fact that I originally wanted AWD and the one that I test drove was FWD... I lost. Anyway, I found one 350 miles away that is exactly the way that I want it with AWD.
Also, would never consider a Hyundai... just me, don't like'm.
Mark156
Your sister in law may be pulling your leg. There is only about 1500.00 of profit in these if sold for MSRP.
The NAVI models are few and far between and that beige is one of the least popular colors.
Despite what you might hear, MSRP is actually a great value for one of these.
Isell, it was my brother (SIL's husband) that I was talking to that told me about the discount. He said he got $1,200 off of MSRP. Also, he traded in a 2000 Nissan 4 door truck so that's where the cushion came in I'm sure.
I'm perfectly fine paying MSRP because I want the vehicle and I see it as a good value. I think the Borrego Beige is one of the best looking colors with the Ivory leather.... surprising that it's the least popular color, they are the most difficult to find! Mine is an EX-L with navi, AWD.
The purpose for the CR-V is that I will be pulling it behind my new motorhome. Borrego beige was the only color that would blend nicely with my color scheme.
The weight of the CR-V is good at 3,400 lbs and it can be towed with an automatic transmission.
Snake... just looked at my towing guide. The Hyundai Tucson and Santa Fe CANNOT be towed with an automatic transmission. SO, that eliminates that anyway even if I liked them.
Mark156
My coworkers son bought a Subaru WRX (2002 I think). He said that his son had to put in two transmissions from just normal driving.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Yeah, a young guy in a WRX !
Yeah, a young guy in a WRX !
That's what I think, "normal" driving. From what I know about him, his version of normal is probably 'high spirited'. But even so, isn't this car supposed to be able to take some high spirited driving? After all, it's roots are in rally cars :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
BTW: if these sell right off the truck, the dealerships make more than just the difference between MSRP and invoice!