Stories from the Sales Frontlines

mac24

What is the catch on the $1000 shopping spree?

Darn, if only you'd got here earlier because you're the fifty first customer today!

However, let me make it up to you with a great discount on this...........yadda, yadda!

snakeweasel

I just wonder what they did with it, stuck it down their pants leg?

Not sure about your auto show but here the thing is huge with lots of people walking around with brochures, freebees and stuff they bout at vendors. With all that I would think that no one would have really noticed someone walking around with a dipstick.

snakeweasel

There is an unmarked Mustang that currently patrols the expressways outside Chicago.

jkwh50a

Just got a new Fusion SEL for $19,250.00 after $1,000 rebate. MSRP was $21,395.00 (Just A/t & ABS options)Here in NJ. (Plus tax, NO Doc. fees0 Just have to pay NJ registration fees.

mako1a

Could someone tell me why some Mfrs arrive early/late. I noticed Toyota hits with next year product in Apr/May and Chevy comes out in July/Aug. Not sure about other Mfrs. Also, what keeps them from making a 2011 now? Are there rules in place? Do all Mfrs obey them? April seems like a good time to debut, but is it fair to those that actually make 2008 in or just before 2008?

guss

Federal law prohibits a 2008 going on sale before January 1, 2007.So you will not be able to get a 2009 until 1/1/08.

I love the 1/2 year models that VW is famous for. I think the 1/2 is just to show it is a model change.

user777

i'm thinking "fleet price" means anything the dealership wants it to, and in fact those 8 vehicles could be much more than the others on the lot. they could be bumped with numerous accessories too.

my thinking is if they said "below invoice", they could still be bumped with dealer-addons, and more expensive.

been there, done that.

jb_turner

"Federal law prohibits a 2008 going on sale before January 1, 2007.So you will not be able to get a 2009 until 1/1/08."

This is false.

graphicguy

Auto makers can call their model years anything they want.

If Chevy wanted to call their current models, 2010 models now, they could. But, what's the point? It's still going to be the current Malibu, Impala, Tahoe, Siverado, Corvette, Aveo, etc.

Now, if you're talking about vehicles that are being shown at auto shows as either design/engineering exercises, or what future models may or may not look like, those are usually just test vehicles. They may or may not make it into production for myriads of reasons.

Gestation period, planning, testing, getting subcontractors on board, regulations (current and future), manufacturability, etc all have to be considered before making any model or its model year.

lrguy44

No they could not. The law is that after Jan 1, a car can be the next year. IE, the LR2 coming in April will be a 2008. It would be illegal to be a 2009.

volvomax

No they can't call their car any model year they want.
Remember, the VIN, which is Federally regulated determines model year.
The Jan 1 rule is true.

jb_turner

Can you reference a source for this law?

jipster

Consumer protection laws wouldn't allow manufacturers to call their car any model year they want. I'm betting on jb,ir and vovo... figuratively speaking that is.

lrguy44

WHY WOULD THEY EVEN WANT TO CALL A NEW MODEL A 2014?

dino001

Because it's so ahead of its competition that those other guys would reach that level at 2014? :P

volvomax

NHTSA has the entire reg.

snakeweasel

So when its 2015 and you are driving around in a 8 year old car yoi can claim its only one model year old.

zodiac2004

I know for a fact that a 2000 Buick was offered as the first prize in a Golf tournament - in the summer of 1998.

210delray

Maybe it was, but the consumer couldn't take delivery until spring of '99, when the refreshed 2000 Buick LeSabre debuted, which as I recall was the first 2000 model Buick.

The car salesmen are right on this issue; it's covered by NHTSA regulations on vehicle identification numbers (VINs). So at this moment, a newly manufactured car's model year can be either a 2007 or 2008, but nothing else (excluding of course show or concept cars, which won't be titled/registered for street use).

british_rover

Not off the top of my head but half a dozen different people telling you the same thing is not good enough for you?

We aren't talking about the geneva accords here.

Also isn't there something about a car has to start production after Jan. 1st 2007 to be called a 2008 MY?

jb_turner

It may very well be half a dozen people saying the sme thing.. because they heard it from others on the internet.... this does not make it fact.
I have heard of this before however I have a feeling that this is a myth. People may say this is so because they read that other people say this is fact....so where is the reference to this fact?

210delray

Also isn't there something about a car has to start production after Jan. 1st 2007 to be called a 2008 MY?

Yes and no. The production line can start before January 1, 2007, but if a manufacturer wants to, they can designate any cars assembled after 1/1/07 to be 2008 models, even if no changes were made to the cars. In practice, manufacturers will wait until some kind of change has been made. For example, the upcoming revived Taurus (formerly Five Hundred) has styling changes plus an engine upgrade, and will be called a 2008 model when it arrives in April.

Sorry JB, I think the burden is on you to look through the NHTSA website (nhtsa.gov) to verify that such a rule exists. I don't have access to my handy-dandy Code of Federal Regulations here at home.

mac24

Sometimes model years get missed out entirely. There are no '96 Jeep Wranglers for instance.

210delray

Yes, that's easily possible. There will be no 2007 Scion xB, as production of the 2006 model ended in Dec. 2006, and the redesigned model will be introduced in April as a 2008. Dealers hope to keep enough xB's in stock to tide them through.

Same is true for the 2007 Mazda Tribute and apparently the '07 Mitsubishi Lancer. There was never a 1983 Corvette, to name a more well-known example.

jb_turner

"Sorry JB, I think the burden is on you to look through the NHTSA website (nhtsa.gov) to verify that such a rule exists. I don't have access to my handy-dandy Code of Federal Regulations here at home."

No need to be sorry at all. I have been to NHTSA before and as before I am unable to locate this "fact" or "law"

I did find "Model Year means the year used to designate a descrete vehicle model, irrespective of the calander year in which the vehicle was actually produced" under "code of federal regulations"... The NHTSA has nothing to do with the laws and rules concerning the model year.

I HAD a feeling this "fact" or "law" has been perpetuated by the internet to the point where most will consider this "law" as "fact" although the code of federal regulations has backed up my assumption. I consider this a dead issue...... anywho lets hear more auto stories!

snakeweasel

Not off the top of my head but half a dozen different people telling you the same thing is not good enough for you?

I can point you to more than a half dozen people that will tell you we never went to the moon.

I can point you to more than a half dozen people that will tell you that Elvis is still alive.

I can point you to more than a half a dozen people that will tell you about the cusion of a friend of theirs who wanted to get a quick tan and went to 10 different tanning places in one day and ended up being cooked from the inside.

I have at least a half dozen people telling me that they are heirs to millions of dollars but its in a foreign bank and they need my help getting it out and they will give me millions to help them.

I have at least a half dozen people telling me that if I forward their e-mail Bill Gates will give me money because they are testing an e-mail tracking software.

So I guess all those must be true too?

isellhondas

Talk about beating a dead horse!

bobst

Hi Isell. It's already 6:37 in your neck of the woods? Shouldn't you be out selling cars? The early bird gets the worm.

graphicguy

snake...that's some funny stuff.

But, I agree with isell....who cares?

I'm a fairly savy "car guy". I've never heard of any law that prohibits any manufacturer of designating any model year on any car. That doesn't mean there isn't a law on the books somewhere. It's just that I've never heard of one in over 25 years I've had a driver's license and have been buying cars.

Just looking back historically, all new models for the upcoming years were all intorduced at around the same time (usually Sept-Oct) of the preceding year. That's, more or less, gone by the wayside. In recent years, manufacturers seem to offer "next year's" models and time they want.

I believe the original poster's intent (at least the way I read it) was why can't manufacturers bring the "future models" they show to market immediately? The answer is usually those "show cars" are design and engineering excercises that may or may not be desireable, manufactureable, tested, approved, etc.

elongh

There is no 2007 Tribute, just 2006 then 2008.

lrguy44

NHTS board Title 49 states the VIN year (10th didget) must be less than 2 years from the date of production. Therefore, a car produces in 2007 can be a 2008 model, but cannot be a 2009. Now will you believe the people who are in the business?

graphicguy

LR....thanks....glad we got that cleared up.... :P

That may be true of VIN #s, but the manufacturer can still call the car any model year they want....regardless of what the VIN # states.

lrguy44

Wake up - the VIN determines what year the car is - not whatever whim a manufacturer dreams up. get a grip on the law!

cotmc

"NHTS board Title 49 states the VIN year (10th didget) must be less than 2 years from the date of production. Therefore, a car produces in 2007 can be a 2008 model, but cannot be a 2009."

Is this why some manufacturers (Volvo, Audi, and VW come to mind) introduce new models or major updates to the U.S. in the middle of the model year and label them "2004.5" instead of "2005"?

lrguy44

I am not sure, but I think they do that for marketing. If thw car was introduced in 2004, it could carry a 2005 VIN.

lrguy44

Now you got me thinking. If way you say is true, you could take your 2004 Sludgemobile to a dealer. When he appraises it, you could say "The VIN may say it is a 2004, but it really is a 2010." Hmmm...

cotmc

Marketing?

I don't understand why some manufacturers want to market an updated model in the U.S. as a half-year increment (i.e. "2004.5") instead of bumping the model a full year ("2005")? Although the manufacturer may refer to it as a "2004.5" model within their literature, the VIN as well as all future pricing guidelines will refer to it as a 2004 model. Hence, there are now two different models with an official "2004" model year designation. That adds to some confusion among the uninitiated.

I believe it would be a much better marketing approach (if legal, as discussed previously within this thread) to bump the model a full year upon model updates, such as how Toyota/Lexus has been introducing their new models (Camry, IS, RX330, etc).

lrguy44

I totally agree with you. Also, in appraising, you have to know the new body style, or look carefully at the VIN didgets that would distinguish the difference.

snakeweasel

But, I agree with isell....who cares?

I agree, but I was just commenting on the comment that implied that since six people said its true it must be true.

I believe the original poster's intent (at least the way I read it) was why can't manufacturers bring the "future models" they show to market immediately? The answer is usually those "show cars" are design and engineering excercises that may or may not be desireable, manufactureable, tested, approved, etc.

I think the reason is cost. Some of the stuff on those "future models" have to be so advanced that it pushes the cost of the car beyond most peoples reaches.

210delray

Glad you found the reference -- I tried on the web without luck. My paper copy of the Code of Federal Regulations is at work. NHTSA administers all of the rules under Parts 571 through 581 -- these include the federal vehicle safety standards and the VIN rule.

Yes, that ".5" thing is annoying and can be confusing when you sell the car -- you have to differentiate between the "old" and "new" models of the same car. This is the case for the 2004.5 Volvo S40, 2005.5 VW Jetta, and 2006.5 Kia Optima. In all cases the VIN will show the model year without the ".5"

In each of these 3 cases, there's a big difference between old and new versions.

mac24

Do the manufacturers themselves actually refer to the mid-year model changes as 'half' models?

I know that we (dealers and public alike) do, but what's the official position of the manufacturers in their brochures and promotional literature?

210delray

Do the manufacturers themselves actually refer to the mid-year model changes as 'half' models?

It depends. For the Jetta, only a relatively small number of "old" '05 Jettas were imported into the US, so the "new" Jetta was simply called a 2005. However, VW may have referred to it as the New Jetta that year; I don't recall for sure.

I'm pretty sure Volvo did call the new S40 the 2004.5 model. The interesting thing with this one is that production of both the old and new models overlapped for a couple of months (built in different plants of course).

venture

There was never a 1983 Corvette, to name a more well-known example.

Actually there were a few '83 Corvettes. One remains and sits in the Bowling Green, KY, Corvette assembly plant.

If I remember correctly, they said they made a few and they were mostly '82's with a few parts from the '84's that they were fitting.

mark156

Isell, I'm buying my first Honda.... a CR-V. I went by my local dealership yesterday and test drove a new CR-V. I couldn't make up my mind right there and told the salesman that I would think about it. After about an hour, I called my salesman back and he said it was sold already! Talking about "you snooze, you lose"!!! LOL!

It has been so difficult to find the right CR-V.. so, I called around at least 10 Honda dealers and found one 350 miles away that has a Borrego Beige, EX-L, Navi, AWD coming in mid-March. So, I put down a deposit to clinch the deal.

The CR-V's are selling at MSRP in my area. My sister-in-law picked up a Glacier Blue for $1,500 off MSRP 80 miles from our home town. I'm willing to pay MSRP just to get the color and options that I want.

I sure hope the dealer that I made my deposit is on the up and up. I need to pick the CR-V up about a week before I drive out to pick up the motorhome.

I'll have to have a tow-bar attached to the Honda once I get to Oregon before the motorhome delivery. So much to do, so little time!

Mark156

graphicguy

I've never thought about "mid model year" introductions....like a 2007.5. I guess it could go the other directions to as far as MY. Maybe make a February build of the next Camry, as an example. I can just hear the discussion with my neighbor, now.

"Hey, nice new car."
"Yeah, I bought a February Camry."
"I'm thinking of getting an April Camry, but it won't hit the dealership until March".

snakeweasel

After about an hour, I called my salesman back and he said it was sold already! Talking about "you snooze, you lose"!!!

In a case like that it is wise to put down a deposit to hold the car.

But since you are looking at CR-V's have you thought about a Tucson? You can get one with AWD and a V-6 for about the same as you can get a CR-V with FWD and a 4 cylinder engine. So it would make sense to at least check them out.

geo9

Even better.......I current year used tucson at 1/2
the original MSRP.............

isellhondas

Your sister in law may be pulling your leg. There is only about 1500.00 of profit in these if sold for MSRP.

The NAVI models are few and far between and that beige is one of the least popular colors.

Despite what you might hear, MSRP is actually a great value for one of these.

snakeweasel

Despite what you might hear, MSRP is actually a great value for one of these.

Seeing that you can get more for the same price I wouldn't say it was a great deal, or even a good one.

snakeweasel

Even better.......I current year used tucson at 1/2
the original MSRP.............

How bad of an accident was it in?