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Stories from the Sales Frontlines

11591601621641652003

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  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    i have been buying cars(8) from the same dealership since 1990. the first time, i got into a discussion with the salesman, as to whether the v8 in a '56 fairlane was a 292 or 312. i'm still not sure! :confuse:
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    If I had the money I would buy up all the stock of Toyota and shut the company down.

    Try this:

    Open up an unused mattress, that oughta cover it.

    'isell' would really like this and to show his appreciation he'd give you a great deal for getting rid of his major competition then all he'd have to worry about is Hyundai. :)

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I am a real car guy and I am normally the number one or two salesman at our store.
  • cotmccotmc Member Posts: 1,081
    I'm almost afraid to ask: What is a "Wiccan" witch? :confuse:

    I agree with you, Moo. As a customer, I try to be considerate and understand your time is valuable, especially on the busy weekends. The internet provides me with plenty of detailed information on all the recent models. I usually buy the annual Consumer Reports auto guide, and I pick up the occasional periodical from Car&Driver, Road&Track, Automobile, etc.

    Hence, when I get to a dealership, I might have a few specific questions, but nothing that requires more than 5 minutes from a knowledgeable sales rep.

    The one thing I hate is when a sales rep lies to me, to make the car look better in my eyes. This happened last year when I was looking at the new Camry V6. The Toyota floor sales guy lied to me, indicating the new SE model has A/C vents to the rear seat passengers. (It doesn't.)

    I have experienced plenty of other instances of deception at sales lots before that, but sometimes these are due to ignorance, when the sales rep is afraid to admit he doesn't know the answer. It usually happens with the less experienced staff. Past experiences at Mazda, Toyota, and Nissan dealerships come to mind.

    However, there was one instance involving an Assistant Sales Manager -- when we were purchasing a new 4Runner about two years ago. Even though I think his "deception" was not intentional, I was frustrated enough to back out of the purchase before any contract was drawn up, and buy my 4Runner elsewhere. If he had admitted he didn't know the answer, but would research and get back to me, I am pretty certain I would have purchased from him and his sales guy.
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    >>The Toyota floor sales guy lied to me, indicating the new SE model has A/C vents to the rear seat passengers. (It doesn't.)<<

    For the first time in seven years, I am in the market for a PERSONAL sled. So I am test driving a 2002 Mazda 626 ES - at a Pontiac dealership. While the salesman heads in to get the dealership plates, I root through the glove compartment and grab the owner's manual. I toss it in the back seat to my wife. My wife is trying to find out two things - evidence of prior ownership and more important, does the car need premium gas. The salesman is rather clueless about the whole deal EVEN THOUGH I told him the night before that I would be in to look at the vehicle.

    After three test drives where the salesmen really don't know the produce that well, I am beginning to believe that the guys are not lying as much as they do not KNOW their product very well.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    it might not be all that unusual for a pontiac salesperson to not be too knowledgable about a mazda.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,294
    I am a real car guy and I am normally the number one or two salesman at our store.

    Was that tongue-in-cheek or do you have more than two salespeople at your store? :P
  • sky23213sky23213 Member Posts: 300
    Have you been withholding a good story from us all the time? ;)
    Please, do tell!
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Please, do tell!

    Yes! Do tell. This sounds like a good one. :)

    tidester, host
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    there tends to be high turnover right? wonder why...

    ok, here's what i hope is a legit question. it miffs me when i go to a dealership and speak with someone not in a position to help me do a win-win deal.

    let's say i've already educated myself on the vehicle and the numbers, so how do i get past the gatekeepers and cut to the chase?

    is there a special handshake or some special phrase to get to the person that makes the decisions?

    or is it a necessity to be tested, ground, or otherwise worked?
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    You have to remember that B-R sells a high end Luxury car. Their sales are much lower than most sales persons here. That means he can afford to spend time discussing cars with his customers.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I would but:

    1.) Its not car related

    and

    2.) Discussing it in public right now might limit my options.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    there tends to be high turnover right? wonder why...

    All sales jobs have a high turnover.

    is there a special handshake or some special phrase to get to the person that makes the decisions?

    Well my dad would follow the salesman to the sales manager the first time the salesman went to him.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,121
    s there a special handshake or some special phrase to get to the person that makes the decisions?

    Well my dad would follow the salesman to the sales manager the first time the salesman went to him.


    I do that all the time. I always follow the sales person to the sales manager's/general manager's desk.

    He/she's the person who is going to approve/disapprove the deal anyway. May as well get to the nitty gritty in short order.

    I also find that a lot of miscommunication is alleviated when you have the two decision makers (me...the customer with the checkbook, them...the person who says "yay or nay" to the deal) in front of each other. I save a lot of time and money that way.

    BTW...went to the local car show yesterday. Interiors are getting a lot better in all of the brands....both domestic and non-domestics. One notable exception, with all the ballyhoo going on about the new Toyota Tundra, it seems Toyota took a page out of GM's interior design book from years past.....tons of hard, unattractive plastic in that vehicle.

    BR & LR....the Rovers I saw were nice vehicles. If Ford can just get their reliability under control, you guys will be selling some appealing products.

    Some questions/observations I had while carressing the new iron.....

    --why, oh why...does GM continue to have Buick in their lineup? There's nothing really special about them, anymore.
    --Given the choice between Toyota products and Honda products, Honda is still more innovative and more clever in their designs.
    --All of Ford's products induce yawns from me. They need to really do some major introspection if they're going to continue to try and pull out of the mess they're in.
    --As much "bashing" as I've done with GM (specifically Cadillac), they look like they've made great strides with their new product designs (no Camaro on display...darn it).

    Pontiac looks like they want to morph into the secretary car company.

    I still like BMWs and Infinities. They've got some very nice products. I'd still take the 3 series over the G, though. I did like the Infinity M series, however.

    Chrysler better hope that GM (or is it Hyundai?)buys them. If not, they are in worse trouble than Ford is. DCX's problem isn't Chryler. It's the Mercedes side of things. If it doesn't have an AMG badge on it, there's nothing there of interest. At least, nothing in their model lineup, at the price they're asking. Hyundai matches them on a build quality scale. I'm not so certain the alleged "german engineering" nets Mercedes anything, either. Nothing was shown that would tempt me to walk into their dealerships.

    GM looks like they're "getting it". I see them pulling out of their mess a much better car company.

    Toyota is suffering what GM suffered through a decade or two ago. They don't know what they want to be. That will only continue as they get bigger.

    Finally, glad I had a Tahoe the last couple of weeks. It snowed practically every day. Absolutely no issues driving in it. Felt safe, comfortable and am amazed at how GM's new vehicles have improved quality-wise, with their last bouts of redesigns.

    GM and Ford still make the best trucks on the planet.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Oh we have more then two. Three right now although we had four at one time. Me and one other guy trade for the top spot month to month. For 2006 I had the overall lead going into the last three weeks and he managed to slip past me by six cars.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,833
    Hey! I was there yesterday!.. Of course, Cincinnati has the lamest auto show on the planet.. :(

    BR: They had the new LR2 on display.. Very nice..

    This car might be all new, but it has a whole bunch of stuff that looks exactly like the Freelander..

    My favorite: Porsche Cayman S

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  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Of course, Cincinnati has the lamest auto show on the planet

    Come to Tampa and I bet we can beat you who has the lamest show.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,833
    Yeah... but, if you don't like the show, you can just go outside.. :)

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  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    ...Cincinnati has the lamest auto show on the planet..

    At least you guys had one. About two weeks ago a tractor trailer that was moving in equipment to start setting up for the Pittsburgh auto show at the Pittsburgh Convention Center, fell through a second floor loading dock. There went the auto show. The building is now shut down for inspection and repairs.

    I believe they are trying to re-schedule for the end of April 2007. This isn't the first structural problem that they have had. Nice looking building but appears to be put together with "Erector Set" hardware.

    If you're brave enough to buy a ticket for anything at that place it would be wise to have a good insurance policy and request two hard hats upon entering. :sick:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    >This isn't the first structural problem that they have had.

    sounds like the contract went to 'relative' bidding method.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    sounds like the contract went to 'relative' bidding method.

    Yep.....that and /or lowest bidder. :mad:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,294
    Of course, Cincinnati has the lamest auto show on the planet...

    Never been to the Cinci car show, but I think Louisville has them beat. No Land Rover, no Audi, no Saab, no Porsche... I don't think Jaguar or Volvo was there either. And there are dealers for all of those. I don't remember exactly because I was crunched for time at the end.

    In years past, Volkswagen has been MIA (they were there this year), and there are three local dealers for them.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    I would but:...

    Oh brother.... if you ever get security clearance on this one get back with us snake.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    On the other hand, if you go to a major show like Chicago or Detroit on the weekends, you see nothing. People bring all their kids and you will spend hours in line trying to get a good look see at the various vehicles.

    I was lucky this year as our corporate fleet managers meeting was held in Detroit before the show and thanks to DCX, we were able to get into the show on industry day where I saw perhaps two kids in the show. Unfortunately, the media was there that day and they weren't much better. (I mean, does a certain reporter NEED to sit in a car for **45** minutes writing. And trust me, it was an econobox.)

    Usually, I score 4-5 tickets and run down to the Chicago show taking all my superiors in the organization. If I do that, we end up going DURING the work day. (g)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Why would you expect a Pontiac salesguy to have much knowledge about Mazdas?

    We sell all kinds of used cars that I know very little about. and I will even toll my customers..." I'm a Honda guy and I probably know as much as you do about Volvos/

    If they have a question, I too will try to look through the Owner's Manual or even call the dealer if necessary.

    And, a smart dealer will make sure all evidence of the previous owner have been removed from the glove box for a couple of very good reasons!
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    The buyer requested the VIN for his new car, but you refused to give him that info until he paid for it?

    No, the VIN number he had. But he wanted to buy insurance before paying for the car. In order for the insurance company here to do it (basic insurance has to be bought through governemnt owned insurance company called ICBC here) we would have to give them the NVIS. The NVIS is a sheet which has the car's VIN number, detailsm, and new onwer info. Since he didn't pay for the car yet, we cannot hand that over to him or the insurance company.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Re: car guy.

    I am a carguy too and I am usually somewhere in the middle amongst sales numbers.

    I quickly learned that most customers that do come in are not car people. They are car shoppers who think cars are appliances that once they buy, they don't want to think about. They don't care about 0-60, slalom numbers, or top speed. They care about fuel economy, warranty, and child seat tether anchors, and how easy the car is to park and drive. Giving that info to them will just bore them and make them look elsewhere.

    To those that do come in and are car guys, I can definately chat with them about cars and specs, but for a limited amount of time.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I told the phone lady who wanted a number on her Hyundai to come in and let us ee it but she hung up. :confuse:

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    The Toyota floor sales guy lied to me, indicating the new SE model has A/C vents to the rear seat passengers. (It doesn't.)

    They do have vents under the front seats that go to the back. Maybe that's what he was referring to.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    We sell all kinds of used cars that I know very little about. and I will even toll my customers..." I'm a Honda guy and I probably know as much as you do about Volvos/

    If I call you up the day before and express interest on a particular vehicle that is the front of your lot, I do expect that you'll take the five minutes to review your own sticker on the vehicle to figure what is on the vehicle. If you want to make the sale.

    I DO expect knowledge on your own product.

    And, a smart dealer will make sure all evidence of the previous owner have been removed from the glove box for a couple of very good reasons!

    I guess that I have dealt with stupid dealers as I generally have always found evidence of prior owner ... and have contacted several of them. They tell some interesting stories.
  • mikes2mikes2 Member Posts: 43
    Hmmm, I'd love to get people's views on this, since it's been a sore point with me too.

    I'm on the cusp of buying 1 of 2 cars (I'd be happy with either), and have had no interaction with any sales people (colleagues at work have both cars, and have let me test drive them, and got all the info. I want here and on other sites). As a result, having a new sales person as a go-between won't add any value to the process (and in my experience could do just the opposite).

    I also know what I want for the new car (which I also believe should be do-able based on lots of info. including what my colleagues bought them for), and what I'm willing to accept for my trade in (ditto). I don't expect the negotiations to be more than a very short chat. If a deal can be done-great, if not, that's fine too-no hard feelings. If the dealer isn't interesed, I will simply move on to another dealer and/or the other car I'm happy to buy. I have a number of dealers in the area, and there definitely is available stock.

    That said, how will people react if I say to whichever sales guy sees me first (the sales guy -in a pleasant way of course!) "Hi - I'm here to buy car X - let's both go speak to your sales manager - I'd really like to see if there's a deal to be done, without all the usual back and forth"?

    What do the sales guys think of this? I'm not trying to get a better deal, but to find out if there's a deal to be done quickly and efficiently. I'm also happy to give a guy an easy commission if I can.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    You may be interested in Internet vs. Traditional Car Buying.

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  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    If a customer comes in and tells me that off the bat that they want to deal with a sales manager; or if I can tell that they don't want to go back and forth (I don't like to to that either, it's a waste of my time as well), I then usually sit them down at my desk, ask them what they have in mind in terms of discount and price, and tell them I'll bring the sales manager out.

    When I go to the mgr desk, I tell him the situation, we check if the deal is doable, and then we both come and see the customer and I let my mgr do all the pricing.

    If there's a trade involved, then you will usually wait a bit, and won't see the manager until the vehicle is appraised.

    When there is a manager on shift, chances are he's working on a bunch of different things at once: deals for other salepeople, appraisals, locates, reviewing unsold deals, etc.

    So I don't mind if you come in and want to deal directly with the manager, but most likely not at the manager's sales desk. and chances are the manager will ask you(or me actually) to sit you down at a desk, he'll work the price after briefly finding out where you want to be, and send me back with a number.

    Part of the reason the going back and forth takes time, is because if there are some deals in progress, then we have to wait for our turn with the mgr as well.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    if you call and make an appointment the day before, wouldn't you expect someone would want to make sure the car was really clean, started, maybe washed and the salesman spooled up on some of the best features of the vehicle?

    i mean, there's no need to try to push a vehicle cold.

    what value are you providing as a salesperson if you are just winging it?

    if you have an appointment i would think they'd take 5 min and research the car yeah, even if there isn't an appointment, shouldn't there be a database or file folder in the office with details on the vehicle?
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,121
    kyfdx....I liked the Cayman, too. I've always been a Boxter fan, so the Cayman is just the hardtop version. Unfortunately, they had all of the Porsches locked so no one could sit in them while I was there. There were also some Mazeratis.

    That said, I've been to the Detroit International Auto Show. Cincinnati's pales in comparison.

    But, as I mentioned before, no Challenger....no Camaro, either. No Ferraris. No Lambos. No Rolls. Everything else was represented, though.

    Still would have liked to see the soon to be statside BMW 1 series. I've seen the Smart Car on the roads around Detroit, where I go for business quite often. They weren't at this show, however.

    Funny....hybrids were a big hit last year. Looks like the bloom is off the rose with those, now. I didn't see many people around them this year.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • mikes2mikes2 Member Posts: 43
    Thanks Boomcheck - good advice. Makes sense to have them come out to your office when they have a moment. As you mention, they will no doubt be multitasking, and in any event, if I were them, I certainly wouldn't want people wandering into my office. After all, that's their workspace, not a customer meeting location.

    Thanks again!
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    No, User, I would not expect it.

    Life is a lot easier if you don't expect much from people. In golf, we call it "play the ball as it lies". Just accept whatever happens and learn to deal with it.
  • nthenthe Member Posts: 414
    whats great about my dealership is i have a computer with internet access on my desk, so if i dont know something about a particular used car, i can find it pretty easily.
  • nthenthe Member Posts: 414
    so how did everyone do last sat? i delivered 2 cars (with both being appointments and they actually both showed up, lol).
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    bobst, i can have high expectations (in this case they aren't particularly high - they are pretty average IMHO) and be flexible enough to adjust if my expectations are not met. i might decide to brush off the first impression and try to work with what i've got, or most likely in this case, i'll leave.

    my point was if you are a salesman, one would expect a certain level of professionalism and/or pride in what one does so that the courtesy shown by the potential buyer who is telegraphing his interest and willingness to buy is reflected.

    a salesperson should be performing a service for me, and not the otherway around.

    now i'm sure that salespeople deal day in and day out with customers that are complete idiots, jerks, oddballs, etc, but i'm not one of them, and i don't expect to be treated like one that's all.

    if i am, i'm gone, never to return again, and likely to pass along my bad experience to those close to me: family, friends, work colleagues, etc.

    it only takes one person at a dealership to form an opinion which is lasting.

    i think i see your point. in other words, the limb that bends, does not break.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Good Sat - Hat trick
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    I would have to say that my experiences at the three dealerships that I visited in the past week were not all that bad.

    While the salesmen were not always able to answer the questions, they DID get the answer very quickly. And there was not a lot of pressure. On the other hand, they know that I buy vehicles all of the time and wasn't going to be pushed into making a quick purchase.

    I bought a car this morning - an '89 Olds Cutlass Ciera that will get me through until April when I will have some fleet cars coming off of lease, at which time, I will buy an '04 Impala LS which is what I really want.
  • cotmccotmc Member Posts: 1,081
    1) Thanks for the clarification regarding the rude customer and the VIN.

    2) Yes, you are correct. I believe the Toyota sales guy was referring to heating vents under the front seats when he indicated the Camry SE has rear-passenger air conditioning. I don't consider this an honest mistake. Why? Because the Camry XLE has REAL A/C vents on the back of the center console, much like other upscale mid-sized cars. I specifically referred to the XLE's vents when I asked if the Camry SE also had A/C vents in the back. By my definition, vents located under the front seats are not intended for A/C -- although I suppose they could carry cold air if the front passengers are willing to have the A/C blow at their feet!
  • abraindrainerabraindrainer Member Posts: 312
    You would be amazed at the bull some salespeople try to throw at you! Here are some I have heard over the years:

    1. At the autoshow: that model is not on the floor because it is not at the dealers... I ask him if he had been to the corporate website and he tells me it is wrong? :confuse:

    2. At a Toyota dealership looking at '03 4Runner: SUVs with 3rd row are not a good thing because those passengers are in "danger". What about your own (other) models that offer that feature? That is different!

    3. The other dealership is full of idiots because they are selling that thing at a loss? Do I care why they are doing that? :P

    4. The other dealership is destroying the business... by offering such deals. :surprise:

    These are the same people that hate to operate in a market environment. I have long stopped asking car salespeople for information because they typically have none to offer. I personally ask them questions in order to test their honesty!
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    One note, though...

    The comment about the 3rd row applies to any vehicle where the rear of the seat is beyond the rear axle(if RWD). If FWd, then you have to go by the C pillar - the rear of the lower seat cuhsion can't be beyond it.

    This makes most 3rd row vehicles deathtraps in a bad rear-end crash. If you really need to routinely carry 7 or mre people, just get a Surburban.

    The others - yeah - hear those as well. :) Of course, when typical car sales meetings are all about selling more and tactics to try and so on(typical semi-sleazy dealership) and NOT about the cars themselves...
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    1. At the autoshow: that model is not on the floor because it is not at the dealers...

    You should have asked if that ment that all those concept cars were at the dealerships.

    I actually had a salesman at the car show one year tell me that it was illegal to discuss the selling price of a car at the auto show.

    2. At a Toyota dealership looking at '03 4Runner: SUVs with 3rd row are not a good thing because those passengers are in "danger".

    Every 3rd row I have seen on an SUV would put the passenger in danger of becoming a pretzel (unless they were circus midgets).

    3. The other dealership is full of idiots because they are selling that thing at a loss?

    How do you know that that dealership wasn't full of idiots who can't keep their costs down?

    But I agree with you, most salesmen I have talked to don't know much about their cars.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    I actually had a salesman at the car show one year tell me that it was illegal to discuss the selling price of a car at the auto show.

    This is true in some cases. In AZ no selling can be done at the Auto Show.
    They actually have people that wander the show to make sure this rule is followed.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Selling and saying "this goes for..." are two different things.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,833
    Ditto for Ohio. Regulation is that all selling must be done at the dealership. They can't have tent sales off-site, etc..

    Lame auto show...

    BMW display.. No M cars.. The only 3-series was a sedan (no coupe, no new convertible), no X3..

    Volvo.. No C30, though it is already at some dealers.

    Chevy.. No concepts, No Corvettes!!

    Acura display.. No RLs (okay, no one cares.. but still)

    Ford.. no GT

    Porsche.. just four vehicles...all locked

    Positives?

    Chrysler had 3 concepts, even if they were from last year.

    Jaguar/Land Rover... all models, including R models and LR2.

    Honda... large display... 2 Fits, 3 CR-Vs, Civic Si (2 and 4-door).

    Ford.. New Focus coupe.. didn't even know there was a new Focus. Rebadged 500/Montego.. Taurus/Sable.

    MINI.. new '07 models, which just went on sale.

    Jeep.. all the models..

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    For locking up those Porsches.

    You have no idea what people do to cars at the auto shows. They TRASH them!
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