Have been discussing new cars with the family recently (and my daughter has some odd fixation with the Jetta). So, I was putting around, pricing out new ones (just in case my son finally gets a real job and needs a car!) and checked out the supply at the local VW dealer. And what pops up on the web site, but a test drive offer. Print it out, bring it in and take a test drive, and get a $25 target gift card.
hey, if they want me in that bad, who am I to say no? And I really might need to buy something soon.
I really dislike how much hard plastic there is in the new Jetta's. Especially sitting in one back to back with a GTI or Jetta Sportwagen.
The other thing? Rear drum brakes on any 2.5 trim below the SEL. I realize it is probably adequate and safe, but just looks/sounds/feels cheap. Especially because my wife's old Jetta GL had 4 wheel disc brakes!
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
My sister-in-law and brother-in-law have test driven the following: Nissan Rogue Ford Escape Titanium Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring Toyota Prius V VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI w/ Nav
They seem to keep coming back to the sportwagen in terms of bang-for-buck driving dynamics, space, and comfort. Their only complaint about it is that it lacks a lot of the gadgets some of the other cars they drove had - xenon headlights, blind spot monitoring, park assist, etc. Right now though, with incentives, the Jetta is $2500 less than their next choice - the CX-5. And it will get better gas mileage and likely live longer.
Like I said, I would never get the SE - just a mental block about spending any amount near 20k for a car (especially a European car) that does not get 4 wheel disc brakes. Given how these new Jettas are depreciating, I bet you could find a 1 or 2 year used SEL for $15k CPO.
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
Would you take it or would you say..." Ah...don't you want to offer less?...I am prepared to take less"
I have actually sold for less than what I asked. When I sold my snow tires I liked the guy so much, he came on time, he loved the tires, he had the cash ready, he didn't haggle, I rounded it off...instead of $350 or something I said make it $300.
I sold a color tv on Craigslist for $25. A lady called, said she was coming across town and she really wanted the TV for her son's video games. She was so happy to get it I said it's yours free. It's not just because I am a great guy...it's that the people were fair and decent....by saving me time they save me money. The answer, I don't think you have to sell for less if you price realistically, BUT don't ask for a lot more and then rationalize it by saying it's fair to ask for the high end price. Maybe that works on most people, it doesn't work on me..........I want your best price if not the first time, pretty soon afterwards - you can try a high price once, but you better get realistic very quickly.
Yes, I do think it's OK to sell an item for as much as possible.
I don't think there is a set rule. In our wholesale book business we have a sale for the public. We buy premium toys and most cost about $10.
Most stores double the price and make them retail for $20. That is what my son-in-law who bought the business sells them for.
I sold them for 1.6, so a $10 item I sold for $16. I'd rather do the volume. Most people will buy 2 at that price so I make $12 on each sale, happy customers tell others and bring in even more buyers, and I get my money out of it faster so I can pay for the product faster. My sales kept increasing, SILs sales are falling.
Wow. If I bought a toy or a book for $16 and found out there was $6 markup on it, I would think that dealer was a low life [non-permissible content removed], and certainly not trustworthy.
That would be like a dealer who paid $20,000 for a car and then sold it for $32,000. That's obscene. :shades:
I'm not surprised because I constantly read in these forums of the nasty tricks car dealers play yet it seems to be OK for shoppers to pull similar tricks
Let's put driver back on the hook for a second. Your original objection was to drivers suggestion to negotiate a price on a green car, then change his mind at the last second and tell salesman he wants the red car. If red car colors are better sellers, then I agree, it is dirty pool. No question about it. The intent all along was to deceive.
On pricing used cars, why is it surprising a dealership would try to maximize profit? They can ask a million dollars. My choice is to either not to even consider the car and go somewhere else, or negotiate the price down. It's strictly business driver. The dealership isn't required to fold at your first request to lower price. Usually if a used car is priced too high, I don't even consider it. The seller has too much emotional attachment to it, they paid too much for it, or they are solely into hitting "home runs".
With selling private party... people get shot going to the movies, or eating lunch sitting inside a Mickey D's. You interact, or gather in groups with other people, there's going to be some risk.
Also, haven't seen any posts from jmonroe or Richard in awhile... and nobody has mentioned the "bobst method" of car buying in over year.... just doesn't seem right.
If I bought a toy or a book for $16 and found out there was $6 markup on it, I would think that dealer was a low life [non-permissible content removed], and certainly not trustworthy.
The book business is built on a 100% mark up, or in the case of new books and smaller dealers at least 40% mark up. We are dealing with $10 books, not $20K cars. It is easier to put a few cars in the showroom than it is thousands of books. Books are returnable to the publisher so you stock a lot more than you will sell, and then you have to return the one's that don't sell.
Just an explanation....in case you are being serious. btw, a 60% mark up puts these books at a true wholesale price. I believe if you treat your customer fairly he will be loyal and will come back. It costs the same to make a red car as a green car, so why should the dealer charge more....only because they can. Not saying it is illegal, just "not nice" - if the dealer is such a great businessman he can order more red cars the next time.
If red car colors are better sellers, then I agree, it is dirty pool. No question about it. The intent all along was to deceive.
Isn't the dealer deceiving the potential customer by pricing a car that costs him the same amount for more? The "businessman" should have ordered more red cars to begin with. Why should the customer pay for his mistake?
And, if the dealer is trying to take advantage of the customer by selling a red car for more, then why can't the customer fight back? The customer has rights too. It wouldn't be necessary if the cars were priced the same as they should be.....it isn't my problem if the dealer isn't smart enough to order red cars instead of green.
well, compared to the S the SE is downright loaded.
We found that out when we got the Passat. In the "S" model the drivers seat is manual and the seats are really cheap. VW makes the S model so they can advertise the Passat as starting from $19999. I don't think they expect to actually sell any at that price. For a few thousand dollars more you get a much nicer car if you get the "SE" model.
Like I said, I would never get the SE - just a mental block about spending any amount near 20k for a car (especially a European car) that does not get 4 wheel disc brakes.
Just to be clear about the 2013 Jetta......For 2013, upper-level trims get a few new features and all but the base model get four-wheel disc brakes.
I can only tell you our Passat SE is made in America, it has been made more to American tastes - more room inside and trunk space - the interior is tasteful but not as nice as true European cars, but, the cost has come down significantly - but, the best feature is - IT HANDLES LIKE A EUROPEAN CAR.
I would certainly consider a Jetta if I was looking for a car in that price range.
Like I said, I would never get the SE - just a mental block about spending any amount near 20k for a car (especially a European car) that does not get 4 wheel disc brakes.
Keep in mind the Jetta is not a European car. It's an American car built in Mexico designed by a European company to sell at a target price. It's also sold in Europe and all models there come with disc brakes and AFAIK, they all come from Mexico.
Like I said, I would never get the SE - just a mental block about spending any amount near 20k for a car (especially a European car) that does not get 4 wheel disc brakes.
Then you pretty much excluded yourself from most Japanese cars, too. IIRC, Corolla, Civic, et al. have (or at least had) rear drum brakes, too, except Civic Si and other "semi-performance" trims. BTW, same goes to torsion bar rear suspension vs. independent. It was only Focus that kept right stuff. BTW, They all cost around 20 grand or so (yes, times of $15K Corollas are long gone). I even remember seing rear drum brakes on some older Camry, as well.
When I think about it, Japanese Big Three are real masters of hiding cheap in plain sight. They'll put some money into interior (not necessarily in materials, but in effort to make a good layout), but when it comes to mechanicals under the car (things people don't see and most don't understand anyway), they'd never volunteer anything beyond basics. They always withold technology , including safety (ABS, stability control, side impact airbags, etc.) from the economy and midsize cars until it is absolutely necessary due to market demand, or regulations.
You may need to adjust your price threshold for this. All cars are more expensive, even cheap cars are close to 20 grand today.
I'm not so sure if base Euro-version Jetta/Golf models (which have very small engines and not much equipment) come with four disk brakes. It is possible, but not certain. VW is not an upscale brand in Europe, by any stretch of imagination. They even have lower brands (Skoda), but VW itself is basically a European Chevrolet (in terms of market position, of course).
VW's effort to sell more units by decontenting the entry level Jetta and Passat and lowering their price did pay off quickly, but it seems to have run into a wall lately. Unlike many others, VW is actually seing lower sales this year, which is a bad sign. Market is heating up and customers are fleeing to the competition - recipe for disaster.
I'm not so sure if base Euro-version Jetta/Golf models (which have very small engines and not much equipment) come with four disk brakes. It is possible, but not certain.
I checked out the UK site and all Jetta models have disk brakes per the brochure. I would presume the rest of Europe would have them as well since the UK is a small market. I also checked out the Aussie Jetta - yep discs as well.
Unlike many others, VW is actually seing lower sales this year, which is a bad sign. Market is heating up and customers are fleeing to the competition - recipe for disaster.
I think the issue there is that they introduced both a new Jetta and new Passat pretty much together. What they need to do is keep updating (ala discs on all Jettas starting in 2014) and refreshing the styling to keep up. They can't allow the cars to wither on the vine like the B5 Passat which was around for 11 model years without little upgrading.
If I were to advertise our ten year old pristine CRV with 71,000 miles I WOULD price it realistically. I would price it to sell quickly as my cars always do but it would be priced at the high end of the market.
"Maybe that works on most people, it doesn't work on me"
I understand and have no problem with that. You wouldn't respond to my ad and I'm sure there would be others advertised for less.
If a nice person responded and offered a bit less they would probably buy my car.
At a recent neighborhood garage sale, we ended up giving away clothes and household items to people we could tell were in need. I would much rather give something away than have someone grind me on a price.
I'm not "rationalizing" anything. It is totally "fair" to ask for a high end price.
If a person doesn't like my price, don't call me. Simple as that!
Isn't the dealer deceiving the potential customer by pricing a car that costs him the same amount for more?
Well, they are priced the same ... at M.S.R.P. How ever much the dealership decides to discount a car, based on color, depends on demand. A fairly accepted practice in a capitalistic society. When you price a used car using Edmunds patented True Market Value system, there is always a category where the cars color adds value to the car, or decreases it. No different with new cars.
The customer can fight back by taking his business elsewhere if he thinks he is being "taken advantage" of. But, playing the ole "switcheroo" is dishonest whether you are a buyer or seller. Just because a dealership would do something like that to me, doesn't make it okay for me to do it to him.
I always thought red cars were the least in demand color by the way. My Crimson Ivory Civic (dark red) was one of a few, out of about 60 Civics on the dealers lot.
Had good luck the first time around; now looking for more responses. Thanks!
A reporter would like to speak to a recent new car buyer who is 60 years old or older, and who plans to buy more vehicles in the future for a story about how Baby Boomers are driving the car market. If you are an older Baby Boomer and you would like to share your story, please send your daytime contact information to PR@edmunds.com no later than Wednesday, 7/24/13 at 10 a.m. PT/1 p.m. ET.
I'm not "rationalizing" anything. It is totally "fair" to ask for a high end price.
May I remind my esteem colleagues that the price of a product or service is what a rational buyer is willing to pay and a rational seller is willing to accept in an arm's length transaction.
-----------------
Shifting gears for a minute to a different topic but with implications for the auto industry. I was reading in Fortune Magazine that there is a demographic population shift from the suburbs to the city. This is the first time in 90 years that there are more people moving into the city than vice versa. Some of that trend is driven by boomers downsizing to smaller digs while the larger trend is explained by people moving to the city to avoid traffic congestion and a higher quality of life.
They mention that even Toll Brothers, Walmart, Wholefoods and some other major companies are moving into the city. Great idea as these new housing developments revitalizes dilapidated and blighted sections of the inner city.
How will this affect the auto industry? Probably not very much, but the need for smaller vehicles will probably increase.
Isn't the dealer deceiving the potential customer by pricing a car that costs him the same amount for more? The "businessman" should have ordered more red cars to begin with. Why should the customer pay for his mistake?
Against my better judgement, I'm answering to you.
How do you know that the dealer didn't order 20 times more reds and that's the last one left?
I know you're being your usual obtuse self, but you're overly simplifying the law of supply and demand.
I really wish you would stop picking up arguments just for the sake of livening things up (and that's not me saying it, you said that yourself.)
Maybe that dealer tried to order 20 red cars and couldn't get them!
I remember once we happened to have something like 40 silver LX Civics in stock. Now, that's the most popular model and color but we sure didn't need that many.
So, an offer that may not have worked on a red Civic cold have been accepted on one of those silver ones just to make it go away.
By the way, the reason the reporter is looking for more responses is because "The last guy to respond on this was so great, [the reporter] wanted to find more like him." (not mentioning who responded from here... I'll let you guess )
A reporter would like to speak to a recent new car buyer who is 60 years old or older, and who plans to buy more vehicles in the future for a story about how Baby Boomers are driving the car market. If you are an older Baby Boomer and you would like to share your story, please send your daytime contact information to PRedmunds.com no later than Wednesday, 7/24/13 at 10 a.m. PT/1 p.m. ET.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
I understand the pain associated with putting that in writing. Just today, I had to sign a document stating that I am over the age of 21. While I'm more than double that, it felt like I was being punished having to put it down in black & white.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
To be fair, I'll add that Detroit Three (not Big anymore) prior its near death experience did not hide cheapness at all. Their product was openly cheap.
Yeah, I knew better too but couldn't resist. I feel your pain Craig.
Ah come on, just admit it, you guys are masochists!
Tell me this, who would you buy a new red Accura from? Isell Accura who will give you a price that is at the high end of a fair price, or Driver Accura who will give you a low price (but profitable to the dealer - the price Isell will eventually get to with a few hours of negotiating) to begin with.
You may choose Isell because you like to negotiate and barter like they do in a 3rd world country. Or you may choose Driver where he thinks everyone should get a fair price, not just those who know how to play the game.
People would come to you for your "fair" price and then come to me, shopping that price. I would undercut you by a few bucks and make the sale!
And the one's that go to you first would check out Driver's huge inventory and when they compare the Isell fair but high price to my everyday low price they will be so surprised they will tell all their friends to go to Driver's Acura superstore.
They will also be pleasantly surprised to find that the red Acura that I paid exactly the same for as the green one was exactly the same price! The Driver doesn't nickel and dime people to death. By the way, no trying to sell the extras like mop n glo at Drivers.
there is always a category where the cars color adds value to the car, or decreases it. No different with new cars.
I know you may pay extra for metallic colors these days, especially on premium cars, but your basic colors are usually all the same. I have never heard of a dealer charging more for a car based on color.
Sometimes you even write up the contract and get to a price before you decide on a color.
Are you being serious. You think it is dishonest to ask for the price on one car and then say you want a different color after negotiating? If I go on the manufacturers website I can build the car and the color won't make a difference in price (unless it is a premium color). If they charge more just because the color is in demand then they are being unethical. They are taking advantage of the consumer. If the dealer said I was going to pay extra because I chose a popular color I would leave immediately.
Well, if you go to Edmunds' TMV calculation for used cars, there is color adjustment, usually no more than $100. Not sure if new cars have same thing.
BTW, metallics do cost more on BMW, Benz, Cadillac and some others. They cost more to apply, usually one extra coat and there are more imperfections/rejects.
Keep in mind the Jetta is not a European car. It's an American car built in Mexico designed by a European company to sell at a target price.
Like I said, all Jettas have 4 wheel disc brakes except the S model which is a very basic model built only so they can advertise a low price to get people into the showroom. VW sales are flying - in Canada
I don't know about slow sales. In Canada sales are up 41% over the same time last year. And Tiguan sales are up a lot with the price reduction too. In Canada all models have disc brakes and Jetta prices start at under $15K, remarkable considering the car....I pais $16K for my 1992 Cavalier when it was a new car......and the Jetta is a much better car than that....and that was over 20 years ago.
, there is color adjustment, usually no more than $100. Not sure if new cars have same thing
Understandable on a used car. You may pay extra to avoid getting someone else's dream colors...like a brown car with green interior. Once the guys who ordered company cars 1979 Buicks that were pretty ugly to begin with, got brown cars with green interiors. I sure wouldn't want to buy one like that.
BTW, metallics do cost more on BMW, Benz, Cadillac and some others. And the funny thing is, if you get metallic colors in the less expensive cars, they usually don't charge extra.......that tells me the cost of metallic paint costs more because the luxury guys know they can get it.
"The last guy to respond on this was so great, [the reporter] wanted to find more like him." (not mentioning who responded from here... I'll let you guess
I know who it was. I answered everything he asked with fact and opinion.
I got an Edmunds hat and a rubber Porsche in the mail. Now I need to find where to read the article since I'm not a Bloomberg subscriber.
Only Edmunds (that I know of) shows a color adjustment when pricing cars and I have no idea why they do this.
Certain colors simply don't sell well but there will always be someone who HAS to have the ugly color 95% of customers can't stand.
Then there are the "love it or hate it" colors such as red, white and black.
If red is a slow mover, stores will order very few and small stores won't order any. Same with sticks. Cars are allocated to stores based on their volume.
For every slow selling stick a store orders, that's one automatic they can't have.
I'll see if I can get a link that you/we all can access once the article has been published.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Oh, since you have all of the answers, you really ought to invest the two million or so it takes to open your own store.
The glory days of owning a new car dealership are over. Now the manufacturers hold all the cards. The last thing I need now that I officially retired about a month ago....is another business to run.
Now, the first Chic-Fil-A franchise in Canada....that I might be interested in.
In 1992 I decided to buy a Plymouth Sundance 4 door with air and a stick. Nothing extra. They had 5 of these base models on the lot. Things are better now, but I decided to drive all 5 without regard to color before I chose because I felt there was one that would shift and drive better than the others. I also knew that any driveability problems would never be fixed correctly by the dealer. 3 were absolutely horrendous -- incomplete shifts and lots of surging. The friction points on the clutches changed randomly and two ran so lean I had to really work to keep from stalling. [great quality control from Chrysler]That left a blue and a red one. The red just seemed a bit smoother so I bought it and drove it 115,000 without problems other than weak a/c. Did the same with the 2012 LaCrosse -- they only had 2 awd's -dark gray metallic and silver. They both drove the same -- I picked the dark one because My current Prius is silver.
Comments
hey, if they want me in that bad, who am I to say no? And I really might need to buy something soon.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The other thing? Rear drum brakes on any 2.5 trim below the SEL. I realize it is probably adequate and safe, but just looks/sounds/feels cheap. Especially because my wife's old Jetta GL had 4 wheel disc brakes!
but for a spare car, an SE would do. Though the SEL offers a decent amount for not much money.
I love the sportwagon actually.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Sometimes that's an oxymoron (present company excepted, of course).
Nissan Rogue
Ford Escape Titanium
Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring
Toyota Prius V
VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI w/ Nav
They seem to keep coming back to the sportwagen in terms of bang-for-buck driving dynamics, space, and comfort. Their only complaint about it is that it lacks a lot of the gadgets some of the other cars they drove had - xenon headlights, blind spot monitoring, park assist, etc. Right now though, with incentives, the Jetta is $2500 less than their next choice - the CX-5. And it will get better gas mileage and likely live longer.
Like I said, I would never get the SE - just a mental block about spending any amount near 20k for a car (especially a European car) that does not get 4 wheel disc brakes. Given how these new Jettas are depreciating, I bet you could find a 1 or 2 year used SEL for $15k CPO.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I have actually sold for less than what I asked. When I sold my snow tires I liked the guy so much, he came on time, he loved the tires, he had the cash ready, he didn't haggle, I rounded it off...instead of $350 or something I said make it $300.
I sold a color tv on Craigslist for $25. A lady called, said she was coming across town and she really wanted the TV for her son's video games. She was so happy to get it I said it's yours free. It's not just because I am a great guy...it's that the people were fair and decent....by saving me time they save me money. The answer, I don't think you have to sell for less if you price realistically, BUT don't ask for a lot more and then rationalize it by saying it's fair to ask for the high end price. Maybe that works on most people, it doesn't work on me..........I want your best price if not the first time, pretty soon afterwards - you can try a high price once, but you better get realistic very quickly.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I don't think there is a set rule. In our wholesale book business we have a sale for the public. We buy premium toys and most cost about $10.
Most stores double the price and make them retail for $20. That is what my son-in-law who bought the business sells them for.
I sold them for 1.6, so a $10 item I sold for $16. I'd rather do the volume. Most people will buy 2 at that price so I make $12 on each sale, happy customers tell others and bring in even more buyers, and I get my money out of it faster so I can pay for the product faster. My sales kept increasing, SILs sales are falling.
Highest price doesn't necessarily = highest profit.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That would be like a dealer who paid $20,000 for a car and then sold it for $32,000. That's obscene. :shades:
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Let's put driver back on the hook for a second. Your original objection was to drivers suggestion to negotiate a price on a green car, then change his mind at the last second and tell salesman he wants the red car. If red car colors are better sellers, then I agree, it is dirty pool. No question about it. The intent all along was to deceive.
On pricing used cars, why is it surprising a dealership would try to maximize profit? They can ask a million dollars. My choice is to either not to even consider the car and go somewhere else, or negotiate the price down. It's strictly business driver. The dealership isn't required to fold at your first request to lower price. Usually if a used car is priced too high, I don't even consider it. The seller has too much emotional attachment to it, they paid too much for it, or they are solely into hitting "home runs".
With selling private party... people get shot going to the movies, or eating lunch sitting inside a Mickey D's. You interact, or gather in groups with other people, there's going to be some risk.
Also, haven't seen any posts from jmonroe or Richard in awhile... and nobody has mentioned the "bobst method" of car buying in over year.... just doesn't seem right.
The book business is built on a 100% mark up, or in the case of new books and smaller dealers at least 40% mark up. We are dealing with $10 books, not $20K cars. It is easier to put a few cars in the showroom than it is thousands of books. Books are returnable to the publisher so you stock a lot more than you will sell, and then you have to return the one's that don't sell.
Just an explanation....in case you are being serious. btw, a 60% mark up puts these books at a true wholesale price. I believe if you treat your customer fairly he will be loyal and will come back. It costs the same to make a red car as a green car, so why should the dealer charge more....only because they can. Not saying it is illegal, just "not nice" - if the dealer is such a great businessman he can order more red cars the next time.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Isn't the dealer deceiving the potential customer by pricing a car that costs him the same amount for more? The "businessman" should have ordered more red cars to begin with. Why should the customer pay for his mistake?
And, if the dealer is trying to take advantage of the customer by selling a red car for more, then why can't the customer fight back? The customer has rights too. It wouldn't be necessary if the cars were priced the same as they should be.....it isn't my problem if the dealer isn't smart enough to order red cars instead of green.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
We found that out when we got the Passat. In the "S" model the drivers seat is manual and the seats are really cheap. VW makes the S model so they can advertise the Passat as starting from $19999. I don't think they expect to actually sell any at that price. For a few thousand dollars more you get a much nicer car if you get the "SE" model.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Just to be clear about the 2013 Jetta......For 2013, upper-level trims get a few new features and all but the base model get four-wheel disc brakes.
I can only tell you our Passat SE is made in America, it has been made more to American tastes - more room inside and trunk space - the interior is tasteful but not as nice as true European cars, but, the cost has come down significantly - but, the best feature is - IT HANDLES LIKE A EUROPEAN CAR.
I would certainly consider a Jetta if I was looking for a car in that price range.
Edmunds review: 2013 Jetta-Edmunds
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Keep in mind the Jetta is not a European car. It's an American car built in Mexico designed by a European company to sell at a target price. It's also sold in Europe and all models there come with disc brakes and AFAIK, they all come from Mexico.
Then you pretty much excluded yourself from most Japanese cars, too. IIRC, Corolla, Civic, et al. have (or at least had) rear drum brakes, too, except Civic Si and other "semi-performance" trims. BTW, same goes to torsion bar rear suspension vs. independent. It was only Focus that kept right stuff. BTW, They all cost around 20 grand or so (yes, times of $15K Corollas are long gone). I even remember seing rear drum brakes on some older Camry, as well.
When I think about it, Japanese Big Three are real masters of hiding cheap in plain sight. They'll put some money into interior (not necessarily in materials, but in effort to make a good layout), but when it comes to mechanicals under the car (things people don't see and most don't understand anyway), they'd never volunteer anything beyond basics. They always withold technology , including safety (ABS, stability control, side impact airbags, etc.) from the economy and midsize cars until it is absolutely necessary due to market demand, or regulations.
You may need to adjust your price threshold for this. All cars are more expensive, even cheap cars are close to 20 grand today.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
VW's effort to sell more units by decontenting the entry level Jetta and Passat and lowering their price did pay off quickly, but it seems to have run into a wall lately. Unlike many others, VW is actually seing lower sales this year, which is a bad sign. Market is heating up and customers are fleeing to the competition - recipe for disaster.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I checked out the UK site and all Jetta models have disk brakes per the brochure. I would presume the rest of Europe would have them as well since the UK is a small market. I also checked out the Aussie Jetta - yep discs as well.
Unlike many others, VW is actually seing lower sales this year, which is a bad sign. Market is heating up and customers are fleeing to the competition - recipe for disaster.
I think the issue there is that they introduced both a new Jetta and new Passat pretty much together. What they need to do is keep updating (ala discs on all Jettas starting in 2014) and refreshing the styling to keep up. They can't allow the cars to wither on the vine like the B5 Passat which was around for 11 model years without little upgrading.
"Maybe that works on most people, it doesn't work on me"
I understand and have no problem with that. You wouldn't respond to my ad and I'm sure there would be others advertised for less.
If a nice person responded and offered a bit less they would probably buy my car.
At a recent neighborhood garage sale, we ended up giving away clothes and household items to people we could tell were in need. I would much rather give something away than have someone grind me on a price.
I'm not "rationalizing" anything. It is totally "fair" to ask for a high end price.
If a person doesn't like my price, don't call me. Simple as that!
A lot of lesser cars out there for less money.
Well, they are priced the same ... at M.S.R.P. How ever much the dealership decides to discount a car, based on color, depends on demand. A fairly accepted practice in a capitalistic society. When you price a used car using Edmunds patented True Market Value system, there is always a category where the cars color adds value to the car, or decreases it. No different with new cars.
The customer can fight back by taking his business elsewhere if he thinks he is being "taken advantage" of. But, playing the ole "switcheroo" is dishonest whether you are a buyer or seller. Just because a dealership would do something like that to me, doesn't make it okay for me to do it to him.
I always thought red cars were the least in demand color by the way. My Crimson Ivory Civic (dark red) was one of a few, out of about 60 Civics on the dealers lot.
A reporter would like to speak to a recent new car buyer who is 60 years old or older, and who plans to buy more vehicles in the future for a story about how Baby Boomers are driving the car market. If you are an older Baby Boomer and you would like to share your story, please send your daytime contact information to PR@edmunds.com no later than Wednesday, 7/24/13 at 10 a.m. PT/1 p.m. ET.
Isn't that name grounds for revoking your Canadian citizenship?
:P
May I remind my esteem colleagues that the price of a product or service is what a rational buyer is willing to pay and a rational seller is willing to accept in an arm's length transaction.
-----------------
Shifting gears for a minute to a different topic but with implications for the auto industry. I was reading in Fortune Magazine that there is a demographic population shift from the suburbs to the city. This is the first time in 90 years that there are more people moving into the city than vice versa. Some of that trend is driven by boomers downsizing to smaller digs while the larger trend is explained by people moving to the city to avoid traffic congestion and a higher quality of life.
They mention that even Toll Brothers, Walmart, Wholefoods and some other major companies are moving into the city. Great idea as these new housing developments revitalizes dilapidated and blighted sections of the inner city.
How will this affect the auto industry? Probably not very much, but the need for smaller vehicles will probably increase.
Agree.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Howdy! I'm in Fair Oaks.
Good luck with your purchase. Make sure you let us know how it turned out.
Against my better judgement, I'm answering to you.
How do you know that the dealer didn't order 20 times more reds and that's the last one left?
I know you're being your usual obtuse self, but you're overly simplifying the law of supply and demand.
I really wish you would stop picking up arguments just for the sake of livening things up (and that's not me saying it, you said that yourself.)
Maybe that dealer tried to order 20 red cars and couldn't get them!
I remember once we happened to have something like 40 silver LX Civics in stock. Now, that's the most popular model and color but we sure didn't need that many.
So, an offer that may not have worked on a red Civic cold have been accepted on one of those silver ones just to make it go away.
Nothing "deceiving" about that is there?
A reporter would like to speak to a recent new car buyer who is 60 years old or older, and who plans to buy more vehicles in the future for a story about how Baby Boomers are driving the car market. If you are an older Baby Boomer and you would like to share your story, please send your daytime contact information to PRedmunds.com no later than Wednesday, 7/24/13 at 10 a.m. PT/1 p.m. ET.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I feel your pain Craig.
I feel your pain Craig.
Ah come on, just admit it, you guys are masochists!
Tell me this, who would you buy a new red Accura from? Isell Accura who will give you a price that is at the high end of a fair price, or Driver Accura who will give you a low price (but profitable to the dealer - the price Isell will eventually get to with a few hours of negotiating) to begin with.
You may choose Isell because you like to negotiate and barter like they do in a 3rd world country. Or you may choose Driver where he thinks everyone should get a fair price, not just those who know how to play the game.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
To answer your question, my store would kick your butt.
People would come to you for your "fair" price and then come to me, shopping that price. I would undercut you by a few bucks and make the sale!
And the one's that go to you first would check out Driver's huge inventory and when they compare the Isell fair but high price to my everyday low price they will be so surprised they will tell all their friends to go to Driver's Acura superstore.
They will also be pleasantly surprised to find that the red Acura that I paid exactly the same for as the green one was exactly the same price! The Driver doesn't nickel and dime people to death. By the way, no trying to sell the extras like mop n glo at Drivers.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I know you may pay extra for metallic colors these days, especially on premium cars, but your basic colors are usually all the same. I have never heard of a dealer charging more for a car based on color.
Sometimes you even write up the contract and get to a price before you decide on a color.
Are you being serious. You think it is dishonest to ask for the price on one car and then say you want a different color after negotiating? If I go on the manufacturers website I can build the car and the color won't make a difference in price (unless it is a premium color). If they charge more just because the color is in demand then they are being unethical. They are taking advantage of the consumer. If the dealer said I was going to pay extra because I chose a popular color I would leave immediately.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
BTW, metallics do cost more on BMW, Benz, Cadillac and some others. They cost more to apply, usually one extra coat and there are more imperfections/rejects.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Like I said, all Jettas have 4 wheel disc brakes except the S model which is a very basic model built only so they can advertise a low price to get people into the showroom.
VW sales are flying - in Canada
I don't know about slow sales. In Canada sales are up 41% over the same time last year. And Tiguan sales are up a lot with the price reduction too.
In Canada all models have disc brakes and Jetta prices start at under $15K, remarkable considering the car....I pais $16K for my 1992 Cavalier when it was a new car......and the Jetta is a much better car than that....and that was over 20 years ago.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Understandable on a used car. You may pay extra to avoid getting someone else's dream colors...like a brown car with green interior. Once the guys who ordered company cars 1979 Buicks that were pretty ugly to begin with, got brown cars with green interiors. I sure wouldn't want to buy one like that.
BTW, metallics do cost more on BMW, Benz, Cadillac and some others.
And the funny thing is, if you get metallic colors in the less expensive cars, they usually don't charge extra.......that tells me the cost of metallic paint costs more because the luxury guys know they can get it.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
See how long you stay open!
I know who it was. I answered everything he asked with fact and opinion.
I got an Edmunds hat and a rubber Porsche in the mail. Now I need to find where to read the article since I'm not a Bloomberg subscriber.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Certain colors simply don't sell well but there will always be someone who HAS to have the ugly color 95% of customers can't stand.
Then there are the "love it or hate it" colors such as red, white and black.
If red is a slow mover, stores will order very few and small stores won't order any. Same with sticks. Cars are allocated to stores based on their volume.
For every slow selling stick a store orders, that's one automatic they can't have.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
I don't have a degree in Business...could you please explain the difference.
You're getting worse than me for senseless debating. Are you trying to usurp my crown?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The glory days of owning a new car dealership are over. Now the manufacturers hold all the cards. The last thing I need now that I officially retired about a month ago....is another business to run.
Now, the first Chic-Fil-A franchise in Canada....that I might be interested in.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250