Stories from the Sales Frontlines

driver100

@abacomike said:The right of an individual to partake of that incentive is also obvious. It's their behavior and insensitivity that I cringe at!

I think you got me right on Mike. I have come around to letting people have their freebies. I just don't like it when the greedy ones show up and take more than their fair share, or try to take advantage. Many people will take something just because it is free....whether they need it or not. If people use their freebies with some common sense, then it is ok, not a big deal. I do think it shows a person has better values, if they decline to take something just because it is offered, if they aren't going to use it, don't need it, or, are highly unlikely to buy the product. This doesn't apply to free samples at Costco as those don't cost anyone anything anyway, and no one knows for sure if they will end up buying the product.

verdugo

@driver100 said:
You're lucky you got on again at all, poor sterlingdog got lost in cyberspace for a few weeks.

Poor Richard. That's the second time he's had problems. Glad he was able to get in. He deserves some credit for next quarter's dues.

abacomike

@driver100:...
I think you got me right on Mike. I have come around to letting people have their freebies.

As I mentioned, we were at the casino for dinner last night and then went to the private lounge to pick my Mont Blanc Pen. I also mentioned that they were serving Champagne and had a nice buffet.

I was astonished by the behaviors of some of the invited "high rollers":

Some people had their plates so full that food was dropping off their plates on to the floor.

Some guests had 2 glasses of champagne in their hands and 1 guy had a bottle of champagne in one hand and a glass in the other hand and was drinking it like it was a bottle of water - one glass after another.

At the pen demonstration table where they displayed the 5 available models and styles, a woman was complaining that she had all the pens they were offering and wanted something else.

That's what makes me cringe - such awful people - they all should have been thrown out so as not to ruin the evening for others. Dad and I left after being there for 5 minutes - we just couldn't stay in that room with those low lifes.

It's the gimme-gimme-gimme people who make others cringe when on the company of people like that!

cdnpinhead

@driver100 said:
I just don't like it when the greedy ones show up and take more than their fair share, or try to take advantage.

It seems to me you put forward a question a year or two ago related to someone you knew showing up at hotels to partake of the "happy hour" food even though he wasn't a registered guest. I could be wrong, but I think several of us pointed out that it was pure stealing. You seemed surprised.

Or perhaps it was all in a dream.

Either way, free trials are the most honest form of marketing. If you like it, you'll buy it next time. If you don't, you won't. I still remember a Gillette Trac (I think it was) razor & blades sample pack I found in the mail when I was in college. It worked beautifully and I've bought their stuff from then until now, 40+ years later.

abacomike

@verdugo:...
Poor Richard. That's the second time he's had problems.

Glad you finally made it back verdugo - I missed your thought-provoking posts - as I did Richard's provoking thoughts.

imidazol97

@cdnpinhead said:
Either way, free trials are the most honest form of marketing. If you like it, you'll buy it next time. ... I still remember a Gillette Trac (I think it was) razor & blades sample pack I found in the mail when I was in college. It worked beautifully and I've bought their stuff from then until now, 40+ years later.

Same here for Shick Extreme3 razors. I received one with some product, maybe a shaving cream, and have bought them ever since. I'm very loyal when a product is good.

I sometimes contact a company when there's something I don't like about a product which I want to continue using. One example was burned edges on the Keebler Club Multigrain crackers--shouldn't have passed the quality control inspection robot. Often companies send coupon for free product--much like the free trial membership to the spa that this discussion started talking about.

I recall just calling to ask what particular versions of a brand of toothpaste have the large top that can be used to stand the tube vertically on our shower shelves. The boxes in the store did not indicate which types had the large caps. They sent a coupon for toothpaste. Free. I used it for the type of sensitive paste I wanted and still use the company's product. I grew up and spent 55 years using their competitor's brand, until their standup tube.

driver100

@cdnpinhead said:

someone you knew showing up at hotels to partake of the "happy hour" food even though he wasn't a registered guest.

You have a really good memory Cdn. That was my BIL who was staying in a motel, went for a walk around in the morning, and found a motel that had a free buffet for their customers. You are right, I didn't see anything wrong in it. I know him and he is always getting extra things. Once at Costco he told the server lady she had the most beautiful hair he had seen. I got a tiny sample of spagetti and meat balls and he got a full plate. Then we went to another aisle and he did the same thing and got a much larger sample. The only difference I can say in his case is he doesn't do these things to rip people off....he does these things for fun to get away with it. Not saying it is right. It is possible the motel where he ate knew he came in and they thought it was good advertising to let him sample the buffet breakfast....in a way it worked because he said he would stay there the next time he was in town.

I just know him and he is always getting things for nothing, I never do. I couldn't do what he does and I wouldn't have taken a breakfast that wasn't offered. After all the discussion about him getting a free breakfast, I don't think it was a nice thing to do, but, knowing him, and knowing it is pretty minor in the big scheme of things, I don't think it is that bad a thing.....not a nce thing to do but not really serious. I know he does renovations and he goes out of his way to find materials at the lowest prices and passes that along to his customers. I guess you have to know the person and know the full story before judging.

I am impressed with your memory.....and that someone actually reads my posts.

driver100

@cdnpinhead said:
I still remember a Gillette Trac (I think it was) razor & blades sample pack I found in the mail when I was in college.

Razor blades and razors are the best giveaway they can make. They are cheap to make so they are giving you something that costs them very little. But, most people stay with the razor and blades they start with....so for one cheap free sample, they will have a customer for life...who is going to pay $2 for evey blade he uses for 70 or 80 years!

Printers are probably sold at less than cost price too, I am sure they make huge profits selling cartridges which are pretty expensive and which don't seem to last very long.

driver100

@abacomike said: Some people had their plates so full that food was dropping off their plates on to the floor.

Someone was telling me about their experience on a cruise ship. They saw this guy piling up two huge plates of food at the buffet table....and they assumed he was taking one back to his partner.....but, no, he sat down with the two plates and ate the whole thing before going up for more. Well, I guess he at least didn't waste anything!

abacomike

@driver100:...
Printers are probably sold at less than cost price too, I am sure they make huge profits selling cartridges which are pretty expensive and which don't seem to last very long.

Funny you should mention printers, driver. About 2 years ago, I purchased an HP Ink Jet printer for $99,00 but probably spent $300 over 2 years on ink cartridges. So when the printer clogged up and stopped working in December, I decided to get a Laser printer that prints in black only (I have no need for a color printer and use a printer very seldom) for $299.00, or $60.00 off their regular price. It prints 2000 pages for each toner cartridge - which will last me years. Much less expensive in the longrun. New cartridges cost $99.00 - by the time I need a new toner cartridge, the printer will be at least 5 years old.

oldfarmer50

@driver100 said:

MKZ identical to Fusion

That's a shame. That's what I think killed GM. A Chevy was a Buick was an Oldsmobile was a.... You get the idea. Same car, same engine, slightly different bend to the metal.

My Lincoln Mark VIII was similar to it's Mercury and Ford stable mates but was a car distinctly Lincoln as well. It had a modified chassis, air vs. spring suspension and a more powerful engine. Quite a different animal beyond just upgraded interior bits.

Why can't Lincoln do that today? Caddy finally got the idea.

abacomike

@oldfarmer50:..
Why can't Lincoln do that today? Caddy finally got the idea.

I agree with you and driver that Lincoln and Fusion are essentially similar in that the same chassis are used, but aren't the two vehicles vastly different in terms of suspension, engines and interiors?

Let's face it, Ford Motor Company profits are way up - they just increased their dividend 25% due to outstanding earnings. They must be doing something right! But their Lincoln Division is somewhat stagnant in terms of growth - not terrible but certainly not stupendous either.

Cadillac, on the other hand, has grown in sales by leaps and bounds. Their refresh of the CTS was outstanding.

Just because a chassis is shared by two or more vehicles in a product line does not make those vehicles alike - merely akin to each other.

The Mercedes E Class Coupe shares it's chassis with the C Class and the CLS Class shares it's chassis with the E Class Sedan, however these cars are totally different in terms of ride, handling, styling, performance and look.

You are correct, oldfarmer, regarding GM cars of the 1960's - 2000. However I don't see that as much in today's cars. Yes, the new Impala resembles the Lacrosse, but I don 't see that same resemblance in the Lincoln MKZ and the Fusion. Just my opinion.

abacomike

CARS THAT ARE "KISSING COUSINS"

Oldfarmer and driver brought up an interesting topic - cars that share looks and components with each other. That reminded me of an occasion when I was selling cars for Lexus back in the early 2000's.

We operated on an "up" system which was managed by a greeter and a computer program queue. I was introduced to an elderly couple (in their 70's) and began to determine what they were interested in.

The wife was dead set against spending thousands of dollars more on an ES 300 when she would be just as happy with a Toyota Camry. The husband said he didn't want a Jspanese car that was manufactured in the USA. He wanted an "imported" car that was different from a Camry. The wife said the two cars were almost identical - Camry and ES 300. The husband thought his wife was crazy.

This, I found myself between a rock and a hard place. I knew both cars shared the same platform and their transmissions were almost identical. Even the sheet metal was quite similar. Even the wheelbase and interior dimensions were almost identical. Yet the ride, handling and comfort were totally different.

My problem was that if I made the case for their similarities, I'd probably lose a sale. So my task at hand was to demonstrate to the wife how superior the Lexus was to the Camry and to build value in the Lexus to justify the $10,000 cost differential.

Luckily I had a 2000 Camry in stock that I had just taken in on trade and I brought a new 2001 ES 300 up and parked them side-by-side. I started on the outside and lifted the hoods. Then I opened the trunks showing the padding and soundproofing qualities of the Lexus. Then I opened the doors - the Lexus had wood trim, leather seats, thick carpeting, a great audio system and a huge array of standard equipment that would add thousands to a Camry if ordered similarly.

Finally, they test drove the two cars to compare ride, handling, quietness and engine performance. It was obvious to the couple that the Lexus was far superior to the Camry, especially with a full year more of warranty. I made the sale!

What I did was to prove to the customers that even though the two cars were. "Cousins", they certainly were not identical twins. My point being that a Lincoln is certainly no Fusion any more than a Camry is no Lexus. Kissing cousins maybe, but quite different in most ways.

sterlingdog

@abacomike said:
sterlingdog...
Should I feel guilty that I took advantage of their free offers? I don't think so.

Richard, I believe that even driver has finally come to the same conclusion. I personally despise the lines of "gimme, gimme, gimme" people who push and shove and grab in order to be first in line to get their freebees - I see it at the casino, at the supermarkets, and at the car dealerships where I worked.

The right of a business to offer an incentive to people to come into their business establishment is obvious. The right of an individual to partake of that incentive is also obvious. It's their behavior and insensitivity that I cringe at!

I totally agree. It actually borders on entitlement.

Richard

nyccarguy

@verdugo

Welcome back! How's the Jeep? How's life with the C-Max plug in?

nyccarguy

@verdugo

Welcome back! How's the Jeep? How's life with the C-Max plug in?

ab348

@abacomike said:
You are correct, oldfarmer, regarding GM cars of the 1960's - 2000. However I don't see that as much in today's cars. Yes, the new Impala resembles the Lacrosse, but I don 't see that same resemblance in the Lincoln MKZ and the Fusion. Just my opinion.

Funny, to me it is just the opposite. The Fusion and MKZ look like almost the same car to me, while the Impala and Lacrosse look very different to my eye.

driver100

@abacomike said:
Yes, the new Impala resembles the Lacrosse, but I don 't see that same resemblance in the Lincoln MKZ and the Fusion. Just my opinion.

Mike, you have to read the article;

http://nytimes.com/2013/04/28/automobiles/autoreviews/the-secret-ingredient-is-ford-fusion.html?_r=1&

The MKZ and Fusion are not kissing cousins, they are almost identical twins....maybe one is a boy and one a girl because of some trim differences.

The Camry and the Lexus are quite different....different suspension, engines etc. Sharing the same platform doesn't mean much these days....car companies can build entirely different cars using the same platform. In the article, the writer says there isn't much of a difference between the Fusion and the MKZ....fancier interior and exterior, push button transmission, and that huge sun roof (both on MKZ - which few people buy as an option).

driver100

@ab348 said: The Fusion and MKZ look like almost the same car to me, while the Impala and Lacrosse look very different to my eye.

I would agree ab. The Impala, LaCrosse and Cadillac are closely related, but actually differ in suspensions and handling and other tweaking more than the Lincoln and Fusion.

General Motors offers three vehicles based on its stretched Epsilon II platform, sometimes known as Super Epsilon, including the Buick LaCrosse, Cadillac XTS, and all-new 2014 Chevy Impala. That Epsilon platform in it's original form, before stretching, was used on the Malibu

The MKZ and Fusion under the skin, are really the same car. Maybe Ford knows there just isn't a lot of profit in that segment of the market available to them, so this way they can keep the Lincoln name out there. One friend in his late 70s, who bought a new MKZ buys new Fords every few years, will not buy any other brand. I guess his dream was always to own the ultimate Ford, which is a Lincoln, and that's what he bought. I sat in it and though it is fancier on the inside, if has all the dimensions and feel of a Fusion.

graphicguy

imid.....gotta say, I tried dollarshaveclub.com and never looked back. Very high quality razors/blades for much less than the store bought brands.

Quick sales story....although I swore I'd never help anyone buy their car again...well...I did.

The current GF has a 14 year old Altima. ~150K miles. Needs some work. It's going to need a motor overhaul (compression down in one cyl), an exhaust system, and probably brakes...all in the immediate future. She asked me if she should buy a new car. Well.....silly question to ask a CCBA charter member.

In truth, I told her from an economic basis, she could probably sink a couple thousand dollars into the Nissan, and MAYBE drive it trouble free for another couple of years, maybe longer.......MAYBE!!!!!!

Well, when the temps dropped around my burg last week, that battery preplacement went from "get to it when you get to it" status, to "HELP....CAN YOU GIVE ME A JUMP". So, instead, bought a battery and installed it (with numb fingers) all within an hour of the phone call cry for help.

But, it heightened her "want" of a new car. So, we sat down and made a list of what she might want. We whittled down the list to a new Altima, Camry and Accord....the big 3 (tried to talk her into looking at a Fusion...she nixed that).

Finally settled on the Accord. Did what I do (knowning there was some unpublished trunk money). Made one offer...all inclusive...included tax, title but no doc fee...included some gimmes like winter mats and window tint. 75 minutes later, she was driving away (no, I have no financial stake in the car). Eazy-Peazy!!!!!!!

imidazol97

@driver100 said: That Epsilon platform in it's original form, before stretching, was used on the Malibu

The Epsilon II is the current Malibu's beginnings.
From Wiki:
Current and announced vehicles built on Epsilon II:

2008–present Opel Insignia, Buick Regal (saloon, hatchback, estate) (SWB)
2010–present Buick LaCrosse/Alpheon (LWB)
2010-2012 Saab 9-5 (LWB)
2012–present Roewe 950 (LWB)[2]
2013–present Chevrolet Malibu, Holden Malibu (SWB)
2013–present Cadillac XTS (LWB)
2014-present Chevrolet Impala (LWB)

abacomike

SPEAKING OF THE MONT BLANC FREEBEE!

I walked into the Mont Blanc Store in the Boca Town Center again today and happen to see the lady who helped me pick out the Mont Blanc Pen I selected at the Casino. I told her that I really wanted the Meisterstruck Ball Point Pen in the larger size, but had to settle for something I didn't really like, but I know I shouldn't look a gift horse in the eye/mouth, whatever the adage is.

She says, "...we aren't engraving the pen for you, are we?" I said you were, and she said, "...I will change the order so we don't engrave the pen for you and then when you pick up the pen on January 21st, just bring the pen in to me with the original box and I will exchange it for a Meisterstruck pen in Black and Gold. I am doing this for you because you were one of the nicer people I met there!" I told her how appreciative I was that she would do that. Both pens retail for about the same - but since she is taking it in at wholesale, she has no problem.

So, I got the best of both worlds - a beautiful pen and the exact one I wanted. So, I guess it pays to be grateful and kind.

abacomike

@ab348 said:
Funny, to me it is just the opposite. The Fusion and MKZ look like almost the same car to me, while the Impala and Lacrosse look very different to my eye

Ah, ab348, that's what makes the world go round - different tastes and different perspectives. I looked online at both the Fusion and MKZ and the shape seems the same, but the front and rear of the cars are quite different and the interiors seemed quite different as well.

Maybe the problem is mine - perhaps I am too critical of styles and shapes - who knows. But, your opinion is important and I respect that!

snakeweasel

@Kirstie@Edmunds said:
Badges - they come standard with the system.

driver100

@abacomike said:Fusion and MKZ and the shape seems the same, but the front and rear of the cars are quite different and the interiors seemed quite different as well.

Mike, I can't speak for AB but I think he would agree the cosmetics make the MKZ and the Fusion look very different, but, under the skin they are really the same car. In the case of the Buick and the Impala there is more actual differences in engineering according to what the GM division making it does to it.

driver100

@graphicguy said: . 75 minutes later, she was driving away (no, I have no financial stake in the car). Eazy-Peazy!!!!!

Congrats GG....you are on a roll my man. You got this car buying thing down pretty good. The salesman could probably see you knew what you were doing and so wisely just accepted he wasn't going to beat you down like a baby seal. What happened to the trade-in?

oldfarmer50

"...easy-peazy..."

Careful GG, this woman may just be dating you for your car buying expertise.

abacomike

@sterlingdog said:
I totally agree. It actually borders on entitlement!

I don't know, Richard, but I have a hypothesis about older people (I guess old like me or Dad):

As we age, many of our inhibitions seem to weaken in favor of a philosophy like, "...I am going to take care of number 1 and my family and to heck with the rest of the world and what they think!" I truly believe as the brain ages, various lobes of the brain weaken - like memory, moral and social values, etc., and the segments of the brain that control self preservation and ego seem to become more dominant.

From my observations of many of the people who live in this community (remember, their average ages are deceased), and my similar observations of my Dad as he has aged, it seems as if their sensitivity to the needs of others diminish and is replaced by, "...I don't give a damn about others..."

As an example, if Dad opens a box of Raisin Bran and doesn't see enough raisins, he is on the phone with the Cereal Company complaining and ends up getting coupons for free boxes of cereal. Trust me, there are tons of raisins in his cereal box, but that does not deter him. I mention to him that it's a kind of "stealing" when you ask for something under false pretenses.

If he opens a box of crackers and notices at the bottom of the box, there are broken pieces of crackers, he is on the phone complaining and gets his coupons for a free box(es) from Keebler or Nabisco, or some other company.

If he doesn't get 50 shaves out of his razor blades, he is on the phone complaining and gets a coupon or two for free razor blades.

I am so embarrassed and get so angry at him, but he doesn't care - he does this continually. I have absolutely no control over him or his behaviors.

If we are shopping in a super market and they are giving out samples of food or snacks, he stops at every single booth and doesn't take just one, he'll take two or three. When he does that stuff, I want to disappear from the face of the earth.

I see this in our neighbors as well. So my hypothesis is that inhibitions seems to disappear as one gets older and older is probably right on. I have to consult with a psychiatrist or a doctor who specializes in dealing with older people to see if there is something that happens in the brain - a sort of specific dementia. Who knows - I might be right!

abacomike

@graphicguy said:
Quick sales story....although I swore I'd never help anyone buy their car again...well...I did.

Ahh, now I see how you attract the opposite sex - you become a "barbarian car buyer" for them and then they have to be grateful, don't they?

Nice job, by the way, GG, way to go!!!

snakeweasel

@graphicguy said:
I think the biggest one I got was $75 a couple of years back to test drive a Lincoln (I didn't do the test drive, but did stop in for the perk).

I get those about twice a year but I do have to test drive the car to get it. However they are always done by the manufacturer at places around the Chicago area so dealerships are not involved. Doing this I have at times test drove cars before they hit the dealerships.

explorerx4

@driver100

Until 2013, the ES3xx and Camry shared a common platform. At some point, Lincoln may come out with a unique platform model, but that is probably a ways off.
My guess is that Lincoln will have to become self sustaining, before that would be considered.

graphicguy

Oldfarmer...Mike.... here I thought it was my rugged handsomness, witty demeanor, and impeccable character that made me attractive to the fairer gender. My bubble has been officially burst!

snakeweasel

@driver100 said:
Update on the lady from Curves.

I have to say this, you are really good at foreshadowing. The very day you posted that I got some propaganda (oops I mean a full colored brochure) from a national chain that has a location not to far away. In the back was a card offering us a 7 day trial membership.

abacomike

@explorerx4 said:
My guess is that Lincoln will have to become self sustaining, before that would be considered.

With the tremendous competition between Cadillac, Lincoln and Chrysler, (not to mention the German and Japanese entries in this class), Lincoln is going to end up on the shorter end of this stick, so to speak. Their styling in the last year or two has been somewhat questionable and the size seems to be getting smaller, if my eyes haven't been deceiving me lately.

Ford Motor Company is either going to have to put a lot more attention into the Lincoln Division or Lincoln could go the way of many other brands and models. They have a very small market niche at this point, IMHO, and for the price of a nicely equipped Lincoln MKX or MKZ, you can be in a BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, Infiniti, etc. In other words, what is it that Lincoln offers above and beyond what the competition offers?

My intent here is not to be negative about Lincoln - quite the contrary, I would love to see Lincoln gain on the competition. But with current endeavors in this brand, they are sure to lose ground if more attention to handling, performance and styling as well as size isn't attempted. In my day, I owned several Lincolns and Mercury's, and was quite satisfied with them in the 80's and 90's, but that was then, this is now.

abacomike

@graphicguy said:
Oldfarmer...Mike.... here I thought it was my rugged handsomness, witty demeanor, and impeccable character that made me attractive to the fairer gender. My bubble has been officially burst!

GG, are you sure it's your bubble that burst or was it something else? I am beginning to wonder about you - perhaps I need some pointers and a refresher course from someone who has it made in the shade - and bursts this and that periodically!!!

snakeweasel

@driver100 said:
Someone was telling me about their experience on a cruise ship. They saw this guy piling up two huge plates of food at the buffet table....and they assumed he was taking one back to his partner.....but, no, he sat down with the two plates and ate the whole thing before going up for more. Well, I guess he at least didn't waste anything!

I have seen that at regular buffets and I don't see the point of it since you are allowed to go back.

BTW I just booked a cruise, going at the end of August, got some small cabin upgrades for booking early.

snakeweasel

@abacomike said:
So, I got the best of both worlds - a beautiful pen and the exact one I wanted. So, I guess it pays to be grateful and kind.

You guess right, people do have a tendency to treat people like that person is treating them. So if you are abusive towards them they will be far less likely to help you out.

jayrider

@oldfarmer50 said:
"...easy-peazy..."

When we were into the car culture of the 50's, 60's and the 70's, the car brand that you drove was a measure of wealth and status [or lack of]. I figured that the more you paid for a car, the better it was. Now we know that while expensive cars may be better than good cars, the real issue is that price contributes to exclusivity and therefore prestige. Some of that has been tempered by leasing, 84 month loans and subprime financing. I don't think that mid-priced premium brands carry as much of a wow factor as they did when folks really had to have money to move on up. The other thing is that for most folks, cars just aren't that big a deal anymore. In 1971, I( couldn't afford a Buick so I bought an Imala. Now, my loaded AWD LaCrosse didn't really cost anymore than a loaded Impala. I never look down on Chevy drivers or look up to Cadillac [BMW -- MB -- Lexus --Acura] , it never crosses my mind. I like my Buick -- end of story.

oldfarmer50

@snakeweasel said:

That is the funniest thing I've seen here in a long time. My wife thought I was nuts laughing out loud!

oldfarmer50

@abacomike said:

Maybe as we age we just feel more vulnerable and react out of fear if we think people are taking advantage of us. Kind of a "don't tread on me" defense.

The other day I had trouble at the gas pump. I'm sure I pumped $10. But got no gas. I became upset to the point that I called weights and measures and had them conduct an investigation of the station. The pump must have been temporarily frozen because W&M couldn't find the problem.

Years ago I wouldn't have bothered.

driver100

@abacomike said:I am going to take care of number 1 and my family and to heck with the rest of the world and what they think!"

This may help with part of the explanation Mike. Once a young lady wrote to Ann Landers and said she loved her boy friend, but he had a few habits that drove her crazy. Ann Landers reply was if you don't like those characteristics now, you have to realize they will become 3X worse whan he gets older. I have seen this happen, only I think she wasn't old enough at the time to realize it gets 10X worse when a person is over 75 or 80. If they were always a complainer, or always a little negative, it will get magnified whan they get older. See if that explains it at all - I know a few people I can apply it to.

driver100

@snakeweasel said:I have seen that at regular buffets and I don't see the point of it since you are allowed to go back.

The thing is, some people don't think that way. They are afraid the cruise ship is going to run out of food, so they have to stock up immediately. Some kind of syndrome....must have a name, like, "Maybe This Will Be My Last Meal for a Long Time" syndrome. Or, "at least if this Carnival Cruise Ship breaks down at sea I won't starve syndrome"

abacomike

@driver100
If they were always a complainer, or always a little negative, it will get magnified whan they get older. See if that explains it at all - I know a few people I can apply it to.

Dad was never like this when he was younger. This seems to have surfaced over the past few years - his need to get something for nothing. However, it could explain acute behaviors on others. I don't know about Ann Landers and her comment about 3X worse, but that is quite possible when inhibitions are relaxed in one's personality.

I'd like to research this a bit more to see of there is and study or series of studies that she'd more light on the subject.

abacomike

BMW GRAND COUPE

I just got home from dinner with friends - and had my first extended ride in a BMW Grand Coupe. It was a fantastic riding car - very powerful and seemed to have all the comforts and conveniences one would expect in a $103,000 automobile. It was the 8 cylinder version. The sound system was the optional Bang and Olafsen -awesome sound.

Sitting in the back seat was a bit uncomfortable for me, but it are was a great experience. I just find that spending that much money on a car is a bit ridiculous. My car is very similar to the Grand Coupe, but MSRP's for about $22,000 less. In terms of styling, it looked just like most BMW's. It seems well made, but much too rich for my blood.

oldfarmer50

SOMETHING ELSE TO WORRY ABOUT

Makes you hesitant to buy a car off the street with guys like this running around. Found on Albany Craigslist today:

Custom tuning / pass inspection! (Saratoga)
2016 volkswagen rabbit

Do you want more Power out of your Audi or Volkswagen? How about better fuel mileage? By remapping your car I can get that extra power you wish you had, better throttle throttle response, better fuel mileage. Check engine ABS, Airbag, or other any other light on? Thats no problem! With my ADVANCED DIAGNOSTIC software I can easily and quickly let you know what is wrong and the best way to remedy the problem. Common causes for CEL are failed secondary air pump, evap leak, Catalytic converter, o2 sensor, exhaust gas temp sensor (egt)... Why have your car fail inspection or pay a shop or dealer outrageously high rates to have them replaced?! I can code them out!! Thats right I can make you car pass inspection! I also offer immo off for those of you who want to swap ecus and not have to worry about immo! I also chip new keys, Change mileage, replace failed or burnt out instrument cluster lcd. For those who want an aggressive tune I offer boost building launch control, and soft launch control too (YES TDI TOO).
Any questions feel free to ask!
Thanks,
Marty

1.8t 1.9t tdi gti jetta golf passat a4 b5 b6 s4 a6 3.0 2.7 2.7t 2.7tt 2.7i 4.2 2.8 vw turbo

graphicguy

@abacomike said:
BMW GRAND COUPE

I just got home from dinner with friends - and had my first extended ride in a BMW Grand Coupe. It was a fantastic riding car - very powerful and seemed to have all the comforts and conveniences one would expect in a $103,000 automobile. It was the 8 cylinder version. The sound system was the optional Bang and Olafsen -awesome sound.

Sitting in the back seat was a bit uncomfortable for me, but it are was a great experience. I just find that spending that much money on a car is a bit ridiculous. My car is very similar to the Grand Coupe, but MSRP's for about $22,000 less. In terms of styling, it looked just like most BMW's. It seems well made, but much too rich for my blood.

Mike...I just saw MotorWeek did a feature on the BMW Gran Coupe. They pretty much agreed with your assessment. While they said it was a wonderful car, there were a host of others that were better for $100K large.

A former colleague of mine has the BMW M6. Again, very nice car. But, He paid a boatload for it....two years used. And, it has depreciated like a stone since he bought it used. He's tried to trade it a couple of times. Haven't talked to him in a while, but the last time I did, he said he was $10K underwater on it. Unbelieveable for a used car.

ab348

@driver100 said:
The MKZ and Fusion under the skin, are really the same car. Maybe Ford knows there just isn't a lot of profit in that segment of the market available to them, so this way they can keep the Lincoln name out there. One friend in his late 70s, who bought a new MKZ buys new Fords every few years, will not buy any other brand. I guess his dream was always to own the ultimate Ford, which is a Lincoln, and that's what he bought. I sat in it and though it is fancier on the inside, if has all the dimensions and feel of a Fusion.

On the previous generation the similarities were more obvious, but even on this the greenhouses are the same, with the only difference being in the shape of the rear quarter window.

I think Ford tried harder on this generation to make the two cars more different, but the styling makes it difficult. The MKZ has received lukewarm reviews for the most part, and I don't know if that is totally fair. I guess maybe the price premium makes it get held to a much higher standard.

abacomike

@graphicguy said:
Haven't talked to him in a while, but the last time I did, he said he was $10K underwater on it. Unbelieveable for a used car.(BMW M6 and BMW Grand Coupe)

When I bought my car at the end of November, I knew ahead of time that because of the very narrow market niche it has along with the Audi A7, BMW Grand Coupe, Jaguar XJ8, it would not bring a heck of a lot of money when it comes time to trade it. They just don't hold their value. An E350 Sport will bring about the same as a CLS550 after 3 years.

That is why I decided to make sure I had the 3 year maintenance package thrown in which save me about $1200 over the three years.

I personally like the styling and the pricing of my car over the BMW Grand Coupe - I believe I got more car for the money, IMHO.

imidazol97

@ab348 said:
I think Ford tried harder on this generation to make the two cars more different, but the styling makes it difficult. The MKZ has received lukewarm reviews for the most part,

I start comparing cars by checking part numbers on Rockauto. I did that with a couple of toyota cars in the past. You can dye the dog's hair, but you can't change the spots. For the Fusion/MKZ I checked front wheel bearings/hubs--same; cabin air filter--same; and some other various parts that are the guts of the car, not the outer spots. Wouldn't a premium car have an HVAC box that is redesigned with premium parts and abilities? Not here.

Last time I did comparisons was when a toyota fan said the Avalon was all new and didn't share anything with the previous model. I found that statement was false just like this one.

nyccarguy

Speaking of ex$pensive BMWs, a friend of mine just bought (with her trust fund money) his wife a B7 Alpina. It now sits in the garage next to his 2013 X5 ///M & his 2013 ///M5.