Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Stories from the Sales Frontlines
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Robr2....I think my biggest watch is a 42mm. Anything bigger is just uncomfortable.
Richard....Invicta makes a ton of different watches, from uber cheap, to expensive swiss made Valjoux powered models. I'm wearing one now. Paid under $100 for it...good looking...japanese automatic movement that's more accurate than any other big dollar swiss automatic I own.
While there might be a major difference between a $10K Rolex and a $15 Timex there is little difference between the $10K Rolex and a $500 Movado.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
>
....special alloys make it keep time better!!!! Well, they probably do up to a point, but is paying 10X as much for a watch really worth being accurate by an extra few seconds a month?
You can try to justify the price, and your jeweller is giving you a good line, but, a watch is basically a watch....you do pay extra for a nice band and possibly face, maybe more expensive parts to run smoother and a bit more accurately, but, hardly noticeable to most people. Buy a Rolex because you like to wear something that makes you feel good....but, no one needs to own a Rolex because it is going to keep better time or because the second hand moves smoother.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Snake, thank you for sharing your vast knowledge about watches. I see the topic has switched back to cars or car washes, no one is acknowledging that watch inards are basically the same no matter how much a watch sells for. That's OK, at least my original thoughts which I wasn't sure of have been confirmed - watches within their category (types), all are very similar.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I'm with you. I could never buy a watch that I would cry about if it fell in a bucket of paint. As I recall I did just that to a Timex. I washed it off in the swimming pool. It never missed a beat.
I guess I wouldn't want a really expensive car either. Those million dollar super cars might be a great fantasy but I'd never enjoy driving one for fear of it getting a dent or stolen.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Any thoughts about the Ford F150 having an aluminum body? Will some F150 drivers be put off with lighter aluminum?
I saw this in an article about the new trucks:
"Ford is taking a big risk. F-Series trucks have been the bestselling vehicles in the U.S. for the last 32 years; last year, Ford sold an F-Series every 41 seconds. Ford makes an estimated $10,000 US profit on every F-Series truck it sells. Michael Robinet, the managing director of IHS's automotive group, says the trucks account for about a third of the company's revenue in North America — $80 billion US in 2012."
Aluminum is supposed to be stronger but will reduce the weight by about 700 pounds, making the truck more fuel efficient, and faster pick-up.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Aluminum panels would have to be more expensive to produce, I would guess. I have heard that repairing body damage is much more expensive on aluminum panels. Although aluminum doesn't rust like steel, it still corrodes. And you get bimetallic reactions where it mates to other metals.
I have to think that you might be better off making these behemoths smaller, going back to the size of '60s pickups.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
you can spread out payments, same as cash. Cars and watches, I could read, watch and talk about 'em for long stretches of time.
Thanks for that tip. I will.
Richard
The article I read about this (Sun Sentinnel) indicated that Ford distributed a number of these aluminum body trucks to various companies and were not told they were aluminum. From the feedback Ford received, the trucks performed exceedingly well which was the reason they decided to go ahead with aluminum bodies.
I see no reason why Ford would sell any fewer F150's, but should sell even more due to improved fuel economy and performance.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I agree that if they just shrank the darned things they would take off the weight just as easily.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Here is my view on purchasing pre-owned automobiles. Our 2009 Cadillac SRX was pre-owned. When we made the purchase, the window sticker was still in the glove box. It listed at $56,400. The owner kept it for nine months and the mileage was at 10K. The leather tag denoting the type of leather for the seats was still hanging from the driver's side. The earphones for the DVD player were still wrapped in plastic and in the box. The plastic coating was still on the DVD screen. This banker must have taken his shoes off before entering the cabin. The cream colored carpet was flawless. He purchased the vehicle near the end of the year so it still had a three year warranty on the car. When we arrived at the dealer, the car was listed for $34K. I was allowed $7K for the old Explorer which my research had indicated was top dollar for that year and make. I negotiated another $2,600 off the SRX. My final OTD price was $24,400. My feeling was that I purchased a $56k vehicle for $32,000 less.
Though I have owned a few new vehicles, I still don't mind a pre-owned one, if they meet my practically new specifications and standards. While I can afford most any new vehicle that I desire, I don't see why I should spend the extra money if I can run into a deal such as the one on the SRX. The deals are out there for many luxury cars; you simply have to do the research and find them. I don't just buy any pre-owned car. It has to be sitting on the very edge of brand new. Will I buy another brand new car? Yes, if it is what I want and a fair deal can be made. With the millions of cars for sale each day in this country, who can say that a slightly used one isn't as good as a new one?
Richard
I agree, Richard. There are many almost new vehicles out there that are agreeably worth every penny, if not more, than their sales prices. The depreciation expense has been absorbed by the first owner.
When I trade my cars, they are pristine and my dealer never has a problem giving me top dollar as a trade-in and then makes a nice profit selling it. The next owner pays $4000-$5000 less than he would have paid for the car new but ends up with a car with a 6 year 100,000 mile warranty - even better than a new car warranty.
As for my preference, I like to buy new, however if I were in the market for an S Class Mercedes, I would not hesitate buying a low mileage S Class in the right color with the fight options for $30,000 less than buying new.
It all comes down to economics and also finding that right car for you. And as you said, with patience, you can always find one that meets with your specifications and expectations.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
My prediction is that there will be a huge recall because with a different metal making up the body, none of the clocks will work properly.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I'll just hang on to my Heuer Black Coral II Wristwatch. But I'd like a Monaco someday...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
That was just too funny. Would you buy a pre-owned one if you could get it for $2000 less?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
You got an outstanding deal on a pristine pre-owned car....even I would be tempted to go for a deal like that. But, I was really referring to saving $4K on a pre-owned $70K car...when you are going to save $4k. The point is, if you can afford $70K, why not get a brand new car exactly the way you want it? Not a big deal, if the car is what you would have wbought any way, but, buying new may cost less if you are getting a one year newer car (say you are buying when the new models are out), and a brand new car may be worth more at trade in time, you can honestly say it was a one owner car.
Warranty or not, I would also wonder why someone kept a car for only a few months - it could be a lemon....like the Audi S. A warranty helps, but, who wants to keep taking their car back to be repaired all the time?
Richard, no question you got a winner and a great deal....but, that is a very different situation. Now, what happened on the cruise?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
First that photo is of the concept - the actual product is more subdued.
As for reactions - over on a Ford board, the faithful are readying the torches and pitchforks. Over on a GM board, they are predicting the death of the new Silverado/Sierra vis a vis the new F150. Mark Reuss has already said he can't wait to get his hands on a new F150 but I have a feeling he has seen one already:
At the volume that Ford is looking it, I would presume the cost wouldn't be that much more than steel. And with a lighter body, other components can be lightened which will reduce cost.
As for repair - yes it's harder but trucks are more likely to have parts replaced rather than repaired. Until one gets into the cab structure, it's easier and cheaper to replace the panel.
As for size, the market has spoken that smaller trucks are not big sellers. Yes GM is introducing a new midsize truck but IMHO, the market isn't going back there in droves.
I may be a bit late to this discussion.
I have one watch - Citizen Eco-Drive (silver with blue face)
I have one car - Hyundai Elantra GT (silver with black interior)
Does one really need more?
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!
MODERATOR
2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Absolutely
Ah, yeh, unfortunately, I think I do.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I agree with you Driver. If there is only a four or five thousand dollar difference between used and new, I would definitely buy new. Saving $30K for the same quality is another question. I, too, wondered about the banker trading the SRX after just 9 months. In fact, I put that question to the dealer at the time. It was an interesting story. The banker had pressured the board of directors to allow him to buy a "company" car for business travel and entertaining big money clients. When the board finally agreed, this banker takes off to the Cadillac dealership and orders the SRX with every available option. I actually have the options sheet where he checked off every box----V8 engine, DVD player, Canadian leather seats, rear camera and sensors, etc. Six weeks later the car arrives. The board of directors was not happy. They assumed (a dangerous word) that he would make a more prudent purchase such as a Ford or Chevrolet mid-size car. On top of that, he didn't even like the car. He had always driven Lincolns. He struck a new deal with the bank board. He would trade the SRX for a new Lincoln but he would pay the difference between what the board would allow and the price of the car. The board gave him an allowance of $30K. The dealer was telling me that this guy was a real screwball and had the ego and attitude to match. At any rate, his blatant error in judgment became my lucky purchase. I do love that car. I know how GG feels about never owning another Cadillac because I felt the same way. He really should do a test drive now. He might change his mind. I actually owe it to my wife. Had she not flipped when she saw the SRX, I doubt that I would ever have considered one again. (The cruise post will be my next one.)
Richard
Michaell, you have the dog symbol for your name. I wish that I had that one because it would match my name tag. I'm sure that if Edmunds switched our tags, my dues would go through the roof.
As for one watch and one car, you're absolutely correct. Years ago, that was all that I could afford. Will I scale down to one of each? NOT, NEVER, NOPE, NADA, ZERO!
Richard
Richard, I think I obtained the picture from my wife ... I have three miniature dachshunds, so it seemed appropriate to use that picture as part of my profile.
I'm sure you can do a Google image search and find a suitable picture to associate to your profile.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!
MODERATOR
2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
The bed can't be aluminum, though, could it? Aluminum is pretty soft, you can dent it a lot easier than steel.
I heard that using the amount of aluminum Ford did in the new F150 that they reduced weight by about 700 pounds vs the outgoing model. That's HUGE! And with new CAFE regs, probably a good way to get the MPG they'll be required to achieve.
As for durability? I'm not a metallurgist, so I don't know about the strength, or lackof, with aluminum. I know I can crush an aluminum soda can with my bare hands. But, something tells me Ford did a bit more research than using a soda can to achieve the stregnth required.
BTW....something that's always bothered me, since I've been to the U.K. quite a bit for work, and watch the Brittish Top Gear show quite a bit, too. Why do the Brits pronounce a.lu.mi.num with an extra syllable...or, as "al.u.mi.ni.um"?
An interesting question. Here's one answer I found which sounds pretty credible:
source: Michael Quinion, "World Wide Words"
"Sir Humphry (Davy) made a bit of a mess of naming this new element, at first spelling it alumium (this was in 1807) then changing it to aluminum, and finally settling on aluminium in 1812. His classically educated scientific colleagues preferred aluminium right from the start, because it had more of a classical ring, and chimed harmoniously with many other elements whose names ended in -ium, like potassium, sodium, and magnesium, all of which had been named by Davy."
"It’s clear that the shift in the USA from -ium to -um took place progressively over a period starting in about 1895, when the metal began to be widely available and the word started to be needed in popular writing. It is easy to imagine (American) journalists turning for confirmation to Webster’s Dictionary, still the most influential work at that time, and adopting its spelling"
They use aluminum alloys, not pure aluminum. All commercial aircraft and most all other aircraft are made of aluminum alloy for the wings and fuselage. They are changing to carbon fiber for the structure of the wings and parts of the fuselage, but the shell of the plane is still aluminum alloy. What about aluminum engines? If they were pure aluminum, they would blow apart, but because they use alloys, the engine is just as strong as a block made of steel.
As for denting, with the use of alloys, panels would dent about the same as if made with sheet metal steel.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
The British happen to pronounce aluminum the correct way, a.lu.min'.i.um, with the stressed syllable being "min". That is the proper name of the metal. We North Americans have butchered it a bit, by pronouncing it a.lum'.in.um with "lum" being stressed.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I guess I'm used to being around exotic old Italian cars--you'd best not even PUSH these cars by the fenders.
Aluminum engine blocks are of course chunky bits--not quite the same as an alloy panel--but I'm sure (oh gee I hope so) that Ford has tested all this in the real world.
I was just curious how the inner panels on the bed would hold up on an F-150 that actually hauls more than a 5 lb bag of lawn fertilizer.
According to Ford, 95% of the body is aluminum.
They are using a military grade of aluminum that is used on the bodies of Humvees and other military vehicles. It's not beer can aluminum.
Frame will be steel though. Ford says they beat the crap out of these trucks in testing, so I guess it's all good!
I think I mentioned that Ford put 75+ of these F150's into service with several companies over a period of many months to test the durability of the aluminum alloy in the truck. This was done without telling those who drove the trucks that they were made from aluminum alloy. The results were so good that Ford decided to build the 2015's using the aluminum alloy.
But, you and I both know that to properly test anything, it takes many, many trucks over a period of at least a year, with 75,000 miles at least on each truck. I would doubt Ford did that.
As for strength, if a Boeing 787 can fly for 18 hours through turbulence and many, many landings using aluminum alloys, I think a Ford F150 should make it through several years without much problem. Now durability of "batteries" is something totally different, LOL.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Well it's how you put the whole thing together that counts. Aluminum is more subject to fatigue than steel, and more susceptible to abrasion as well. The first commercial jetliners met with a number of disaster related to fatigue---they weren't designed right. I don't think jetliners would do real well off-roading
I fear that if everyone only bought what they "needed," besides becomming a dull world, the econony would quite collapse! Do I need several watches and, car-wise, anything beyond the stylish Elantra GT? Me? Yes! As my bank account cries....
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Really? I'm sure they would do that and more. Prototypes are tested and abused over a long time on their own proving grounds. I wouldn't be surprised to see over a million miles of testing.
Psst - the 787 is mostly composite.
Re: aluminum F-150s
Just had this discussion at work with two Ford owners.
Younger guy who uses his for plowing and landscaping was dead set against it. Said he'd never trust aluminum because it wasn't as strong. He also worried about problems with paint sticking to the metal.
Older guy who uses his truck for light duty loved the idea because of the perceived better milage.
Personally, I like the idea. Didn't they also go to aluminum fenders on the 2015 Mustang? I heard that the 2015 will be 200 pounds lighter than 2014 but another article said no difference.
As to size, I'm not sure the F-150 is that much bigger as much as it seems TALLER. The hood and grill have been raised way up.
I'm sure one of you accountant types can compare a new 2014 standard cab's exterior dimensions with say my 1985 standard cab to see if one is bigger.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
This aluminum is actually pound for pound....stronger than steel.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
"my final OTD price was $24,400"
A $32,000 discount on a car with 10k miles is incredible. I'd go for that in an instant even though I tend to be an all or nothing kind of guy. I usually buy brand new or totally depreciated.
My Eclipse and PT Cruiser were brand new. My Lincoln, which new listed for around $39k was bought for around $3k. That's about 8% of original sticker for a car that hopefully has half it's life left.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Ford is making a very gutsy move, but, they have been pretty gutsy recently. They are taking the number 1 selling vehicle in the USA, and they are making a huge controversial change. I tend to think they have thought this through pretty well.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I’m not sure why you use Amana, GE and KitchenAid as examples of “great products”. I’ve owned all of them at one time or another and they were all pretty much the same regarding quality. Which was OK as far as I was concerned. If you swapped badges on any of them I’d never know the difference. As for Rolex, Omega, MB and BMW, I’ve never owned any of those, and while not against any of them, I don’t see any of those in my future. However, I’ll have to take your word for the quality of these because I believe everything I read on the internet.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
GREAT. I can’t wait to see the results from that one! He’ll probably show up looking like a two headed Giraffe.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
My left leg is very, very sore from you pulling it so hard. So, please stop "pulling my leg"!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
The H-bodies by GM used aluminum from 2000-2005 in leSabres, Bonnevilles, STS's, and Auroras in the hoods for weight reduction. By inference I suspect the Deville probably also used aluminum. I wouldn't be surprised if Sterlingdog's SRX has an aluminum hood.
I recall a few questions from some Bonneville folks about paint problems. Minor.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I’m pretty sure you are correct. Right now as I’m posting, I have a piece of aluminum alloy on my desk that is probably the same gauge as what Ford is using for their new F-150 panels and possibly beds. Within reason, given its gauge, you cannot hurt this thing and believe me, my fellow workers and I have tried. So I doubt that anyone in here could fare any better. Then again, I doubt that anyone in here could afford a truck made from this stuff and that includes Richard.
It’s all in the alloying process and yes it is proprietary.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I thought the move these days was to go with a composite bed. Chevy did that, right? Makes a lot of sense especially for the interior of it.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Used cars can be a fantastic value at any price, whether you are talking about someone who buys a $110K S550 for $70K or someone who buys a $45K 335i for $25K off lease. Being on these boards has educated me about cars and the buying process in so many ways. Like you @driver100 I once believed that all used cars were "someone else's problem" or a "lemon" like graphicguy's S4. I've been following this board and (shameless plug) Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous long enough to realize that there are A LOT of people out there who switch cars out for a variety of reasons. Look how many cars @abacomike has gone through since we've met him (not trying to pick on you Mike, you know you're my boy) for no other good reason than he was offered top dollar for his trade and an insanely low price on the new car. People buy a car they think is "cool" and then realize 6 months down the road that the car has nice features, but is uncomfortable on long distances. I'm sure tons of guys buy their "mid life crisis Corvette," drive it a lot the 1st summer, then realize it is tough to get in and out of all the time. They also buy a new car because they see something new that they "must have." They'll roll negative equity into a new loan or lease. They'll trade in cars (and take a massive depreciation hit) because they want something that gets better gas mileage. Some people buy a car and hate it. SO they get rid of it after 6 months or a year and get something else.
I'm actually texting a friend of mine in FLA that bought a 2011 335i with 7,000 miles on it for $37 or $38,000 sometime in 2012. His girlfriend was 2 years into a 3 year lease of a VW Tiguan. She got a 2013 328i Demo with 3,000 miles on it for $6,000 off of MSRP & she got $1800 more than her buyout was worth from carmax. Their sales guy then called him and offered him $8,000 off of MSRP to take their last 2013 335i off of the lot on New Year's Eve.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I had paint problems with my ’95 Bonneville and they were definitely not “minor”. The roof and trunk were shedding paint like a worn out dog loses hair. I realize this was a generation before what you were talking about. Those panels were not aluminum they were the common garden variety steel. As I said when I was in here crying about that for a week, the problem was due to incompatibility of the primer and the paint. I was told this by the dealer and several body shops that I went to for quotes to see how much pain I was in for to have it repainted. Since the car was 10 years old at the time I opted for a cheepy Mako job (not our poster buddy but maybe his cousin). It was better than I expected for a $400 paint job. At least that paint never came off.
FWIW, I think the front fenders on that beast were plastic of some type which did hold paint without a problem. I remember putting a magnet to them and since it didn’t stick I knew it was not a ferrous material. It did not sound like metal when I rapped on it so I don’t think it was aluminum. I’m sure you know for sure what material it was being you’re the GM guy in here.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I wrote something but decided I didn't want to post it.
What happened to the "delete" feature?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I was talking about aluminum hoods on 2000-2005 or until end of model run for each that I hypothesized was included in using an aluminum hood to lighten the vehicle.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,