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Mainly because the lead acid batteries were to heavy and the Edison's nickel-iron batteries (that Ford wanted to use) had power issues and were not suitable for powering a car (something about internal resistance inside the battery).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Sorry but the problem that Ford had with ALAM was different that what Tesla is having. ALAM claimed to have the patent on the automobile and required that any car manufacturer have any model they make approved by ALAM and a royalty paid to them. When they told Ford he couldn't build his cars Ford said "#$%@ you" and built them anyway. ALAM demanded a royalty payment on the cars that Ford was producing due to their patent (their claim was shaky at best). The courts determined that ALAM didn't have the patent thus allowing Ford and anyone else to make cars.
Unfortunately for Tesla the anti-trust lawsuits of the 40's and 50's may work against them. Off the top of my head is the United States v Paramount that stated that movie studios couldn't own movie distributors or movie theaters.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
My understanding is that it is supposed to start at $35K and have a 200 mile range. Allegedly to start selling in 2016 or 2017. I might seriously consider that car.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I have always considered a good range for any car being where I can drive the majority of my time I only refuel once a week.
However as you pointed out the concept of stopping at a gas station to fill up is out the window with an EV. I would say the vast majority of my daily driving is under 50 miles so any EV today would suffice (with our other car being a gasser for longer trips). Something with a 200 mile range like the Model E is supposed to have would cover me for all but a handful of trips a year.
I figure that the Tesla does have the range to capture most mainstream drivers, all they have to do is get the price down.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
200 miles would work for me, but like you say, that car would be dedicated to local use, and the other car would have to do all the travelling.
we pretty much do that now with the new RDX and the other car having better than 100K on it (and no where near as nice). But in the past, I did use my Accord for trips where we did not need to take lots of stuff.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I was surprised about the Gm Cobalt recall only because apparently the ignition switch was designed expressly for that model. I would have assumed it was a standard/generic GM part that would be common across many models. Why would they need something unique for each model they make?
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
To be honest, I rarely watch Fox News or MSNBC. More than half the programming on both is opinion and commentary and when they are doing "news", I can't help but try to find the gotcha they are going to toss out.. This quote I found tells the story: "MSNBC has opted to emulate Fox News Channel’s point of view programming performing editorial journalism for a like-minded audience..." Neither channel is really news - they both remind me of tabloid newspapers with the intent of screaming out a headline and hoping someone listens.
For news, I find the nightly news reports on CBS, ABC and NBC to at least be somewhat real news and IMHO, more trustworthy. If I had to turn to anyone for unbiased reporting of the news, I'd have to say NPR and the BBC do the best job.
My father used to put a lot of miles on cars and once they got over a certain mileage he would rent a car for long trips.
Now with a EV with a 200 mile range there are few places the wife and I go regularly where the EV couldn't take us there and back on a single charge.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Remember they are trying to full 24 hours of programing. Covering news stories can only take you so far before you repeat yourself to death.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
@imidazol97
You have some very interesting theories. I agree with you. The Chinese have that entire half of the world on lock down. I think they are holding something back.
I think they are going to keep digging and find that the "Iranians with stolen passports" had something to do with this. I don't believe for one second that the one guy was trying to get to Germany to live with his Mother. What's the other's guy's line of salt?
@snakeweasel
That's a fantastic idea. A good way to save money too. There are a lot of families out there driving around in large, multi passenger vehicles when they really only need that said vehicle "once a year when we go on our big trip."
I would seriously consider an electric car if I could buy one within reason that had a range of about 150 miles. My wife could drive it to work and back (under 6 miles round trip). During times when she'd need the Pilot (which will most likely become mine this September), I could use it (65 miles round trip). The 150 mile range would give me enough for 2 days round trip plus a cushion. 300 miles would be fantastic. I usually get 300 - 325 miles on a tank of PUG in my 3er.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
even safer if you can plug it in during the day at work. No way I would risk that drive 2 days on 1 charge. at minimum you have to charge every night.
given the fact that I have put 85 miles on my TL since the last time I filled up, and I think that was 2 weeks ago, I just might be fine with an electric. I would just have to reclaim the garage from my daughter, since I can't plug in sitting out in the road!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
one thing for sure. If I do move and build or rehab a house (as I would like to do) I would have a 220 outlet included in the garage.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Oh, no, bicycles were very serious machines back in the 1890s. There were bicycling clubs all over America.
Here's something from the Pedaling History Bicycle Museum (Orchard Park NY). They have one of the world largest bicycle collections:
"The bicycle was what made the Gay Ninties gay. It was a practical investment for the working man as transportation, and gave him a much greater flexibility for leisure. Ladies, heretofore consigned to riding the heavy adult size tricycles that were only practical for taking a turn around the park, now could ride a much more versatile machine and still keep their legs covered with long skirts. The bicycle craze killed the bustle and the corset, instituted "common-sense dressing" for women and increased their mobility considerably. In 1896 Susan B. Anthony said that "the bicycle has done more for the emancipation of women than anything else in the world."
Bicycling was so popular in the 1880s and 1890s that cyclists formed the League of American Wheelman (still in existence and now called the League of American Bicyclists). The League lobbied for better roads, literally paving the road for the automobile.
It's interesting that the bicycle is described as a liberator of women--the electric car was deemed equally so, freeing women from the tyranny of turning that crank handle (from which we get the term "cranky"), and the smell and greasy muck of gasoline engines.
Since I started selling cars a decade ago, this was a common "need" of customers coming into the showroom and looking to change vehicles. People would ask for a 7 or 8 seater because that one time during the year when their relatives come and visits they needed the extra space.
I would always try to talk some sense into these customers and try and discourage them from buying more than they needed. Especially when they needed the extra row of seats only once or twice a year, it would make more financial sense to buy something smaller and just rent a large SUV for a couple weekends during the year when they need the space. Some listened, some didn't.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Oh I realize that. Ever since CNN created the genre, it's been difficult to fill 24 hours with just news.
What I don't like about Fox is that they advertise "Fair and Balanced" but don't bother to let anyone know what 40% of their programming it applies to.
I agree with your synopsis rob. I find CBS, ABC, CBS and CNN are pretty fair in their reporting, at least you can get the basic facts and know they will be a little bit to the left of centre, but you will get a pretty good picture of what they are trying to explain. FOX is fair and balanced, if you are far to the right and see the world from that perspective. Not saying it is bad news, you just have to be aware of what they are trying to accomplish.
Personally, I just like the facts, I can make up my own mind how to interpret those facts.
BBC is pretty good too, but also with a bias to the left. Seems that has to be taken into account when you are dealing with people who are in the media.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I remember an article I read about EVs. In most neighborhoods the electricity grid could not handle the amount of power needed if a lot of people went out and bought an EV. EVs work best in downtown areas where people take short trips, those are the areas with older ecectrical grid systems. We better not change over too quickly to EVs all at once, or we could blow a "fuse", so to speak.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Excellent point about the rate of switchover, Driver, and I agree.
Crude oil WILL run out in time, and as we approach more resource scarcity the price of oil related fuels is expected to grow to the point they are no longer affordable.
The key to avoiding major social upheaval and disasterous world wars over the dwindling crude supply is to begin a slow transition away from oil....now. Not later. Now. Develop the technology and infrastructure over time with a goal to eliminate our dependency on crude oil for transportation before we hit a point it's too late.
Consider how long it's taken for gas cars to mature to the point we are today. We should expect no different for alternative fuel vehicles. Gas cars were terrible until the last few decades. Awful emissions, hard to start in certain weather, temperamental at changing altitude, relatively low power, and grossly inefficient. For electric cars, and cars in general regardless of energy source, Tesla has set a pretty high bar for other manufactures to beat. But they will, and that's a beautiful thing.
The good news is we already have the technology to start this transition, and as more companies investigate alternative energy, the better the solution will become which will lead to even higher adoption rates by consumers.
Electrics don't have to sell in the 10s of millions of units. They already are selling 100s of thousands. And, that's with no standardized "plug or voltage output". The vast majority of people don't drive anywhere near 300 miles/day, not even 200 miles/day.
In my estimation, if the volume of electrics increases 30% annually over the next decade, electrics will be a success. That number isn't really that hard to achieve, especially with range getting better and prices coming down.
But, it is perception....about range anxiety, and not being stranded. I believe that "mental block" would go away in an electric with a 200 mile range. That way, you come home, plug it in, until you're ready to go out again.
Mentioned before about a shopping mall in a remote area about 15 miles from me that already has plugs for electrics. Restaurants could do the same thing...charging in their parking lot for their CUSTOMERS while they dine. What a great incentive to come to their restaurant.
Thinking of the places that would let you "top off" your charge, and that range anxiety becomes less and less. Just think, a store, with a minimal investment to install a charging station, could charge a $1/15 minutes to charge someone's car (kind of like a parking meter). Given enough volume of electric cars, it would pay for itself in short order, and become a profit center, with no work involved.
Add to that, the advances in "quick charging" technologies, which are being developed as quickly as possible, seeing a large chunk of the population isn't a dream, but a viable reality.
The big issue is at the local transformer level. If enough people plug in at the same time with small 100A services, there could be an issue with enough power flow. But an article I just found noted that PG&E in California has only needed to upgrade appx 12 our of 10,000 local transformers when people have bought EV's.
Great [Forbes ](Forbes "Forbes ")article on the use of zombie batteries - EV batteries still have about 80% capacity even at 20 years of age. Coupled with a solar array, a home could be powered by a set.
I pretty much watch FOX news most of the time. Occasionally I will watch NBC just to see what they are not reporting on. I watched NBC Evening News the day after Republican David Jolly won the special senatorial race in Florida. NBC made no mention of that particular election.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Yesterday was very telling. FOX News wants Obama to stand up to Russia over Crimea. FOX says Obama is showing the US is weak if he backs off.
CNN had reporters saying making a stand against Russia is pointless. Sanctions aren't going to do anything, Crimeans want to be part of Russia, and Americans don't want another war.
Which is the right course to take?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
It's what's missing in the news from many of the mainstream media mentioned by other posters that makes the bias. I compare data. I recall when the other party was in the White House, the mainstream media would harp on some point of ridicule over and over.
Then: "Potato" misspelled by Vice President? Joke for years; "Rspect" misspelled now by president, no mention.
Then: President hadn't seen a supermarket scanner Standard joke to show how removed he was; now president hadn't seen an electronic signing device at GAP, might be mentioned once with a smile of how folksy he is.
Now: The 400 years under our Constitution mentioned on the floor of the House by a favored representative in the media, no mention outside of alternative sources to the cluster of mainstream media.
I was always involved in looking at facts to check what's being reported and how it's being done.
But I see a similar parallel in the misreporting of automobiles, their reputations and their desirability by the various medias. These then affect how people view some of the cars and the car companies. GM has had problems, some caused by themselves and/or the UAW, and some media started in thinking if they repeat the same truths over and over, it will stick on the reputation. Or if they repeat the same untruth, it also will stick. The problem is many people take what they see, hear, read, as truth without considering the reality.
It's been interesting following the auto mags and the talking heads and talking reporters covering the toyota UIA story and the GM recent history with a managed bankruptcy.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
"I pretty much watch FOX news most of the time. Occasionally I will watch NBC just to see what they are not reporting on. I watched NBC Evening News the day after Republican David Jolly won the special senatorial race in Florida. NBC made no mention of that particular election."
Interesting you should mention that - I watched CNN that day along with NBC and heard no mention of that election but it was covered by CBS and our local news.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Oh I think that's an easy decision. We should take the Fox News course and do the right thing---all die in a nuclear holocaust to save Latvia.
I sincerely doubt that most of the well=known commentators on these various stations even believe what they say. They are paid to deliver a certain product, and they had better.
It's like saying GM is "liberal" and Ford is "conservative". If that makes no sense, neither do these labels when stuck on American media in 2014. BMW makes "machines" and Chevy makes "tough" trucks---but it's all smoke and mirrors when you wash off the pixie dust.
"News" in America these days is a corporate product. It is all owned by 6 major corps, and I don't expect that any of the CEOs of these organizations are sitting in their Aspen chalets planning a socialist overthrow or a nuclear war. You want "vanilla" you watch THIS station, you want "chocolate" you watch THAT station. Then, these corporations, having attracted you with your favorite flavor, sell YOU, the viewer, to other corporations.
my two cents
To be honest, I wasn't even aware of the special senate election in Florida. Maybe it was mentioned but since I don't watch the news all day, either I missed it or because it didn't involve my state, I didn't retain it.
For the Mini owners here:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/20/caught-on-video-attempt-at-world-record-jump-with-mini-cooper-ends-in-crash/
There are 3 videos. The first is this jump with ended up in a really bad landing. The 2nd and 3rd are of a
Mini doing a backflip!!!
Now we know what Mini owners are doing when they're not working.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rOmO0RKN9ww#t=0
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Fascinating article, robr2. Thank you for sharing it. I didn't realize how many charging stations were being added so quickly. Battery degradation is something I've been watching closely given my plans to buy an EV when we hand over the Subaru to our daughter. Tesla owners are seeing very little loss in range even as they approach 100,000 miles, while the Nissan Leaf owners are experiencing dramatic degradation in little time. Initial data suggests that battery conditioning is critical to battery lifespan. Tesla warms/cools the battery onboard while the Nissan does not. It's a good lesson to learn early in EV development and I hope the other manufacturers take note.
That was a minor election, in that it doesn't really indicate much. This election was near St Petersburg Florida and it was a close race. Jolly (Rep)beat Sink (Dem) 48.5 percent to 46.6 percent. Sink was perceived to run in the riding for political reasons - she doesn't live in the riding. Jolly was supposed to be a major lobbyist. Republicans may have just got more voters out. In my opinion, I doubt if the story merrited being on national news at all, unless it was a really slow news day - or you wanted to make a point that this election was indicating something.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
>
LOL...I welcome your 2 cents....it was my laugh for the day. Also a good summary of the news channels involved, you listen to what you want to believe anyway. Thank goodness most news sources are fairly neutral.....and we can come to our own conclusions.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Mini doing a backflip!!!
>
I get enough thrills driving on I-75.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I watched NBC Evening News the day after Republican David Jolly won the special senatorial race in Florida.
The race was for the House seat formerly occupied by late Bill Young, not the Senate.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I disagree. If Sink had won that day, it would have been headlines on top of every news cast. It would go like that: "Democrats won in Republican district", "Trouble for Majority", "People show their support to Obamacare", "Is this the beginning of the end of Tea Party?". Of course Fox News Channel would have mentioned that election, because unlike others they don't use "if we don't say, it didn't happen" tactics. However, we would have Sean Hannity would of course had said Jolly was not conservative enough, or cook up some lame some excuse we he had lost. You'd see Carl Rove with his little boards showing that the "results didn't mean anything", etc. Now of course we have MSNBC saying just that about the Jolly win, after they couldn't ignore the news. However, their big network parent can take a hight road of simply ignoring it altogether.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Fascinating article, robr2. Thank you for sharing it. I didn't realize how many charging stations were being added so quickly.
Welcome to the new normal. I just recently read about a condo development in Boston's South End with built-in charging stations. I can't believe this service will be free but it is a step in the right direction.
Is that at Sepia at Ink Block - the development at the old Herald building?
Interesting dynamic. Build projects without parking but also install chargers!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Actually Sepia will have parking and the spaces are $75K on top of the condo price. I know a new building at Lovejoy wharf will add 175 residences and no parking. I'm sure there will be a Zip Car station.
here's the article on battery degradation.
http://simanaitissays.com/2014/03/16/quick-charge-quick-degradation/
Does Tesla have any evidence to back up the idea that their batteries don't conform to these results, or is this Tesla pixie dust? I'm very skeptical of the claim of "no battery degradation near 100,000 miles". In fact, I'll go further--I flat don't believe it.
The human mind is truly an amazing creation. Due to its ability to observe, evaluate and develop ideas, it has been responsible for transporting astronauts to the moon, develop flight in airplanes, transform atom splitting to create a new form of energy, build skyscrapers that defy gravity, transform moving water through turbines to create electricity, create artistic beauty in many forms, to name just a smidgen of its abilities.
When a need arises, the human mind will develop new forms of energy to satisfy our need to drive cars for an infinite period of time.
So we can go back and forth for ever about developing EV's with a range of 350-500 miles (or more) knowing full well that it will happen! The issues associated with NOW will be solved WHEN....! It's just a matter of how important it is to society - the more critical it is that the problem is solved the sooner it will be solved.
The profit motive has never failed us!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
That's tricky territory you're in there. The paradoxical part of your view is that new discoveries create new problems. (see, bomb, hydrogen).
I dunno, maybe you're right, but it also seems plausible to think that one can't always pull a rabbit out of a hat. If that were true that there is always a solution, then why would empires crumble into dust?
Or let's say we ARE that clever to always come up with a solution--what about the time factor? What if we one day don't have time, even if we have the ability?
"What if we one day don't have time, even if we have the ability?"
Maybe, just maybe, when time becomes a stumbling point, we will be able to "time travel" back and forth so we could "control time". I know I am getting a bit too ethereal, but what the heck!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
That's your option. Personally, I put little stock in conspiracy theories. Best of luck to you, Shift
speaking of EVs. I was reading the local paper tonight, and they had a piece (sourced through USA today) on testing that AAA did. They tested a Leaf, Focus, and Mitsubishi pure electric. They looked at battery charge life under ideal, hot and cold conditions.
under prime conditions (75 degrees I believe) they averaged just about 100 miles to empty. When cold (20) it dropped ~57%, and hot (95) dropped ~30%. Pretty dramatic difference IMO.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Yes it is. Very impressive; and as far as real estate development goes it is perhaps the highest and best use for this area.
It is possible we won't come up with a solution, but you can't think that way. Generally, the world progresses and we move forward....that's why humans have been so successful.
There will always be doubters, and we always have to keep in mind the pitfalls - just in case. But, just like the stock market, there may be setbacks, there may be crashes, but, overall, we keep moving forward.
Anytime someone starts a business you will have "the doubters". If we believed the doubters, no one would invent or start anything.
We will find energy solutions, and it usually seems to happen sooner rather than later these days, mainly because of the capitalist system...if there is money to be made, someone will find a way to do it.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Nothing to do with conspiracies, ty. Just a "call for evidence", simple as that.
If some company can't back up a claim, they got nothin'.
Thanks for your suggestions regarding heat pumps and gas furnaces. The water based heat pumps sound interesting. I'll have to ask my guy about those. By the way, he is a strong believer in the RUDD company. He has installed a lot of those and he says customers have been very pleased. As for the gas furnace, he is NOT suggesting one unit for the entire house. The gas furnace would be for the downstairs. The heat pump for the upstairs would be retained because it has a new compressor and is currently working fine. We could change it out later if it goes bad. Both heat pumps are 22 years old. Our home warranty package covered the new compressor less than a year after we purchased the home. If anyone here has used the RUDD units, I would be most interested in your opinion. Two new heat pumps with installation will run about $12K. Two gas furnaces will run about $15K. The high costs for each one is due to the fact that the old air exchangers don't accommodate the newly developed systems today. Thanks again.
Richard
You mentioned variables such as age, geography, and sex. Why would sex be a variable? I think that most women now drive as fast as most men. I know that my wife and my sister both drive as fast as I do, and I tend to speed a bit as most of our posters know.
Richard
I think that rob2 may be showing a little bias there. Both networks have drug the issue into the ground. The missing plane is neither a Democrat or Republican issue. It's a missing plane with 239 lives at stake. There must be a hundred theories as to its disappearance. As the partner of a missing U.S. passenger stated, we have to be patient and listen only to reliable sources. I wish that the ransom theory could be true; at least we would know that the passengers are alive.
Richard
It's not about how fast women drive, but how MUCH they drive--they drive less than men do--or so say the expert statisticians.