@Michaell@Edmunds said:
Am also hoping to meet up with one of the hosts later this year.
I, too, hated that we didn't get to meet in person. I had also planned to meet Houdini in Kansas. We came close. I called and he just missed my message. We had to leave early the next morning in advance of a terrible storm. Due to the bad flooding, we had to re-route ourselves up through Nebraska. Maybe next time.
" They are in for a surprise, plus a few other little surprises----as in the fact that those two are not the only ones in our Wills."
Good for you. People can be vicious when it comes time for wills. An inheritance isn't a right, although some relatives think it is. It's your choice, and you have to decide how to divide it, like maybe donate some to your buddies at sales frontlines. We could use it to hold the annual party....we could even hold it in North Carolina.
@abacomike said: THANKS FOR THE GROUP HUG FROM ALL OF YOU
Thanks for letting me vent about my poor Dad. I have no one else to talk to except my son and my daughter, both of whom live thousands of miles away and have lives of their own.
Also, thanks to you for the kind comments in response to my dissertations. It's nice to have friends, even though faceless, to support you when you're down.
Richard, I think I might squeeze out a kiss on your forehead if I met you - you are a kind and gentle man - much gentler than most of us - although driver, believe it or not, I believe is gentle as well.
Again, thanks!
I'll consider allowing you to kiss me on the forehead if you will answer my question to you from yesterday. The question was: Is there any way that a consumer can find out the auction value of their vehicle. I see dealer values and private sale values, but I never see auction values.
Thanks for your kind comments. I think that all of the posters here each day have big hearts. That's why I like coming here, plus the sense of humor, the intellect, the experiences of others, the good advice, and the super nice hosts. I would be hard pressed to find another thread even close to this one.
@driver100 said:
Good for you. People can be vicious when it comes time for wills. An inheritance isn't a right, although some relatives think it is. It's your choice, and you have to decide how to divide it, like maybe donate some to your buddies at sales frontlines. We could use it to hold the annual party....we could even hold it in North Carolina.
What?! I bequeath the money for the big reunion? Don't you want ME to be there? I thought that you were my poster buddy.
Speaking of Wills, and just to be safe, we had a statement added. It says that if an heir raises a legal objection to the Wills, then they will automatically forfeit their own share. Hopefully, that will cut down on the greed thoughts and ideas.
"The question was: Is there any way that a consumer can find out the auction value of their vehicle. I see dealer values and private sale values, but I never see auction values."
To access Manheim, you need a subscription to their website. Also, NADA Blackbook is a subscription service - a Blackbook is 4"x2" with very fine print - about 1-1/2" thick.
Kbb (Kelly Blue Book) and Edmunds are within $500 of auction value if you indicate "trade value "!
I have access to Manheim and NADA. If you need an approximate auction value, let me know.
@stickguy said:
I guess they use different leather or something?
Would not give me too much confidence.
The seats are a completely different design. The SE is sort of a "ribbed" design while the Titanium sport seats have flat panels. I'm not sure about the leather. It all looks the same.
@boomchek said:
Reminds me of when I sold Chryslers. One Chrysler 300(I think it was 08 or 09) we got from the factory had leather seats in the front and cloth bench in the back. How nobody noticed this on the assembly line, or in quality control I have no clue.
Now that is really different. At least mine are both leather.
Or one time a new Chrysler Sebring Convertible came in. I was playing around with it in the showroom and noticed that one of the rear tail lights were loose. Turns out it wasn't even bolted on, just stuck into its place, wiring plugged in but no actual nuts were secured to hold it to the body.
Must have been lunch time right before the bolts got tightened.
@sterlingdog said:we had a statement added. It says that if an heir raises a legal objection to the Wills, then they will automatically forfeit their own share.
I love that one....brilliant! But, it's a sign you probably can forsee there will be a problem.
And, yes, sorry, of course we hope you can be at the grand reunion.....we'll have to find another generous donor. Actually, that could be a tremendous marketing play for Edmunds to sponsor the big event.
One Chrysler 300(I think it was 08 or 09) we got from the factory had leather seats in the front and cloth bench in the back
I remember looking at a 79 Firebird. I was kind of tempted, but the emblem on the back was about 3 inches off centre. That kind of turned me off from leasing the Firebird, ended up with a Cutlass.
@venture said:
The seats are a completely different design. The SE is sort of a "ribbed" design while the Titanium sport seats have flat panels. I'm not sure about the leather. It all looks the same.
I'm afraid we probably can't blame Ford other than for quality control. They didn't make the seats.
If the operation worked like GM Moraine did, the seats come in prepackaged from the supplier by semi truck. The seats are finished only hours before and placed, in order, on the semi so that when they offload them they were ready for the assembly line--in order of the production models and colors planned for that group within the day. Same for the headliners. So I think we can blame the supplier who made the seats and supplied them just-in-time for the assembly line. I believe in GM's case it was Johnson Controls.
" if it wasn't to his liking (pre judging right away), he'd say he was busy and turn around and walk away. I'd be left standing now with my customers and the new customer who was still looking for help."
That reminded me of a sales story way back when I was selling cars at the Lexus dealership.
We had a computer "UP" system that listed all salesmen signed in and their position in line for the next customer greeted by the greeter. This particular day, I was the 2nd salesman in line. The management rule was that if you were UP or on DECK, you had to go to the greeter and stand by her.
So the next salesman in line was standing there with me as this bearded, rather questionably dressed young man walked through the front door. This UP salesman told the greeter he had diarrhea and had to run to the washroom (RIGHT)! Do since I was next UP, the customer was introduced to me. I shook his hand, smiled, and told him my first name . He said "...Hi, my name is....and today is your lucky day!" I've heard that before, but I just asked him a group of questions to determine his specific needs.
After hearing what his needs were and the type of car he was looking for (an LS430 Ultra Sedan - MSRP usually around. $62,500 at that time), I took him out to the back rear lot where we kept LS430 Ultras and began to select a car that he liked. There were no options available on an Ultra as they were all equipped to the gills with every conceivable option.
Since the Ultra was in limited production (highest priced car that Lexus manufactured at that time), most dealers only stocked 2 or 3 of them. Since we were a huge dealership , we had about 15 on the lot.
He picked out a Black Cherry Pearl with beige perforated leather. I went back to the showroom with him and got the keys. I brought the car around, put on a dealer tag , and we drove off the property. He wanted to take it on the turnpike to see how it handled on the highway. I directed him to the turnpike, he drove about 5 miles at 70 mph and totally fell in love with the car .
On our way back to the dealership, he asked if I had any more Black Cherry Pearl Ultras and I remembered walking our inventory that morning and I remembered seeing a total of 3. So I responded we had 3 of them. He asked if I had any Black Pearl Ultras with black perforated leather. I told him I had 6 of them.
He then gave me his business card and said, "... I'll take the. 3 Cherry Pearls and the. 6 Blsck Pearls!" I think I started to feel the urge of peeing right then and their, but held it in until I got to the dealership.
He was CEO of a large Limo Service Company and needed to replace 9 of his Lincoln Town Cars.
He gave me a company check for 9 cars (around $585,000) and signed all the paperwork. We were to deliver the cars to his Palm Beach headquarters in 3 days.
I said nothing to anyone in the dealership except management, who was involved in helping me, and spent the next day getting the cars detailed and the two transporters to the dealership to pick up the cars.
My commission on the 9 cars, after deducting transportation costs, was $39,000. That was several month's salary for me.
The next day, the salesman who had diarrhea because he didn't want to take that customer, went to management demanding half the commission. They called me into the office, asked me if it was true that "stole" the customer. I went out and got the greeter to tell them the truth. The manager turned around and fired the salesman on the spot for lying about the customer and trying to avoid taking a customer when he was the NEXT UP salesman.
I made more that day than I made any previous or subsequent day of my life.
Thanks boomchek for jogging my memory about ditching customers! This is a true story - I didn't change a thing or embellish the story in any way.
"Great story, Mike! Did you ever again hear from the individual who bought all those cars?"
In fact, yes I did. It was when I was over at Infiniti. He had my cell phone number and called me. I explained to him that I was a manager and I was no longer with Lexus.
The G37S coupe had just been introduced (revamp of the G35 coupe) and he asked me if I had a red w /black leather interior as he had driven one in Palm Beach , but the had a waiting list due to the high demand . We were the biggest dealership in the country and I had just unloaded 2 red coupes from a truck from the port of Jacksonville.
He drove down, took it for a spin. And a few hours later, the salesman I assigned to complete the deal and paperwork followed him back to West Palm Beach with another salesman following him to give him a lift back. He paid full sticker for the car - they were in such short supply everywhere except at our dealership.
He still calls me every so often - I helped him buy a an SL 550 last year from my Mercedes Dealer. - he got a great price on one.
"The question was: Is there any way that a consumer can find out the auction value of their vehicle. I see dealer values and private sale values, but I never see auction values."
To access Manheim, you need a subscription to their website. Also, NADA Blackbook is a subscription service - a Blackbook is 4"x2" with very fine print - about 1-1/2" thick.
Kbb (Kelly Blue Book) and Edmunds are within $500 of auction value if you indicate "trade value "!
I have access to Manheim and NADA. If you need an approximate auction value, let me know.
Thanks so much. I will. I may trade in the convertible this June. If so, I'll need your help with those quotes. Since my great nephew is going to stay in Dubai to attend a British school, I'm not going to save the convertible for him.
The customer relationship is one of the things I miss in my current position. Every so often I get a chance to re-engage customers, but nothing close to my frontline positions in the past. Mostly I just handle the escalated "angry" customers when my team needs management help, but even that is rare with most of my duties involving process control and improvement. That actually happened today. Hot customer was escalated to me, and after a few minutes of listening to him and diffusing the situation, we spent the next 45 minutes chatting about life and his facility. Neat person and now he has my personal extension to call whenever there's the need. That felt great.
That's one heck of a story. Nicely done! And yes I heard those lines before, mostly from people who turn out to be strokes:
It's your lucky day
Who wants to sell me a car today
I'm a serious buyer
etc.....
That's why in a store with an up system, sometimes salesguys will avoid stepping out for lunch when it's their turn for an UP, because they might miss their turn, which could end up costing them a commission. We call that a $500 lunch lol
Regarding auction values, there's a board here on Edmunds, "Real-World Trade-In Values" that's been around since '00 when it was started by im_brentwood, a sales pro who had access to the auction results around the country. Over the years others came and went but all provided what turned out to be extremely accurate information. The current purveyor of the real deal is qbrozen, and quite a few of the guys on this board hang out over there as well. I think it's the only other board with a huge post count, somewhere around 44K, as I recall.
@imidazol97 said:
I'm afraid we probably can't blame Ford other than for quality control. They didn't make the seats.
>
If I had to blame anyone it would have to be Ford. The knucklehead who installed it had to know it was wrong. After all they do it all day long. I guess you also have to assume s/he wanted to keep the line moving, but it should have been pulled off the line somewhere and fixed.
They are completely different. It sort of makes me wonder if there was a domino effect going on here and all the cars going through the line had rear seat cushions that were one off.
@explorerx4 said:
venture. You don't really know when this happened. Could be original assembly, or after that.
>
Yep. It makes you wonder why anyone would swap out a seat though.
As long as they get it fixed I really don't care.
The funny thing is that it's been almost 2 weeks since my dealer said they ordered the seat and it still isn't here (or they just haven't called me). When I ordered a trunk mat and cargo net that I paid for, it was here the next day.
6.4 million Toyotas are being recalled for various and sundry defects. It is being called the second largest recall of vehicles in history.
It gives one second thoughts about acquiring cars or vehicles from companies who have such high rates of recalls.
Since going to German manufactured vehicles, I have not had to bring a car I owned in for a recall. On the other hand, I haven't kept a vehicle long enough for it to be involved in a recall while I owned it.
So I guess I keep ahead of these recalls - who knows?
If I had to blame anyone it would have to be Ford. The knucklehead who installed it had to know it was wrong. After all they do it all day long.
The fault really does lie with the supplier. They are responsible for delivering the right parts, in the right order, just in time. The seat comes wrapped in plastic and since it was the same color, the installer probably never noticed. It should have been caught at the dealer when they prepped the car - after all they do that all day long. Today's quality systems push quality assurance as far down the line as possible in order to eliminate the need to fix things further down the line.
@venture said:
The funny thing is that it's been almost 2 weeks since my dealer said they ordered the seat and it still isn't here (or they just haven't called me). When I ordered a trunk mat and cargo net that I paid for, it was here the next day.
The mat and net were sitting in a warehouse close by and came in right away. The seat has to be manufactured as a special order and will take longer - parts like that aren't in stock anywhere.
@venture said:The funny thing is that it's been almost 2 weeks since my dealer said they ordered the seat and it still isn't here (or they just haven't called me). When I ordered a trunk mat and cargo net that I paid for, it was here the next day
Those could be optional items people buy, so they are always in stock. Finding a replacement seat cushion is not something normally kept in stock, they may have to remove one from another car to speed things along.
That really shouldn't happen, but I guess mistakes can happen, it's how quickly they fix their mistake that would really show how good they are..
If I had to blame anyone it would have to be Ford. The knucklehead who installed it had to know it was wrong. After all they do it all day long.
One guy may put in a front seat and another guy the rear seat. Also, after working on an assembly line 8 hours a dayfor 20 years kind of numbs you to what you are doing.
@abacomike said:He gave me a company check for 9 cars (around $585,000) and signed all the paperwork.
>
As you know Mike, when you are in sales, you can never tell who really has money and who doesn't. The 87 year old fellow we are helping dresses in the oldest clothes you can imagine. He drives a 6 year old Chev Uplander and before that a 2000 Malibu. He doesn't have a washer dryer, he just has a small Hitachi washer that spin dries. No Dish washer. He did get a flat screen TV about 4 years ago, when his Motorola works in a drawer "beautiful furniture - they don't make TVs like that any more" gave out. He has savings of a few million.
Unfortunately, he won't be splurging on any car, he can't do it. But, there are people who have the money to spend, but they just don't look like they do. That other salesman was very foolish, you just never know.
@robr2 said:
The fault really does lie with the supplier. They are responsible for delivering the right parts, in the right order, just in time. The seat comes wrapped in plastic and since it was the same color, the installer probably never noticed. It should have been caught at the dealer when they prepped the car - after all they do that all day long. Today's quality systems push quality assurance as far down the line
X2.
Agree with Robr2 who remembered to point out the plastic covering. I recall watching the IBEW at GM assembly nearby who did seats. They were busy just moving the seat into position to move it sideways into the vehicle without touching anything else to do damage. The seats were hanging from an L-hook IIRC. That supported the seat until it was in the vehicle and then the hook was withdrawn. All this as the line is moving at walking speed with the body resting on a skillet, a small platform.
Thanks so much. I will. I may trade in the convertible this June.
Have you thought about selling it first, bypassing the trade negotiation with a place where you're trading it in? I would think this spring with the dogwoods blooming is when people get the fever for a convertible and catching the worm early might give a good reward in price for a clean, nice car like that.
You might determine a good price for a private sale with help from the people here with access to the data. Then start spreading the word among your contacts at garages, stores, anywhere you having contact with people. There might be someone willing to pay a good enough price to make it rewarding. That's if you can get by with just your SRX for a time with one vehicle. We decided we could get by with 1.5 vehicles. We don't really need two. Our new one has been driven 4 times.
Then you could negotiate on the car you are wishing to buy which makes it much easier to do.
@robr2 said:
The fault really does lie with the supplier. They are responsible for delivering the right parts, in the right order, just in time. The seat comes wrapped in plastic and since it was the same color, the installer probably never noticed. It should have been caught at the dealer when they prepped the car - after all they do that all day long. Today's quality systems push quality assurance as far down the line as possible in order to eliminate the need to fix things further down the line.
@venture said: The funny thing is that it's been almost 2 weeks since my dealer said they ordered the seat and it still isn't here (or they just haven't called me). When I ordered a trunk mat and cargo net that I paid for, it was here the next day.
The mat and net were sitting in a warehouse close by and came in right away. The seat has to be manufactured as a special order and will take longer - parts like that aren't in stock anywhere.
>
The supplier, the manufacturer, the dealer - 6 of one... The ultimate responsibility is Fords. They are the boss.
The plastic is clear. You can see through it. Besides I could tell the difference with my eyes closed just by touching it. They are that different.
I really don't care. They are going to make it right. So they say.
6.4 million Toyotas are being recalled for various and sundry defects. It is being called the second largest recall of vehicles in history.
It gives one second thoughts about acquiring cars or vehicles from companies who have such high rates of recalls.
Since going to German manufactured vehicles, I have not had to bring a car I owned in for a recall. On the other hand, I haven't kept a vehicle long enough for it to be involved in a recall while I owned it.
So I guess I keep ahead of these recalls - who knows?
Mike...great sales stories. I remember when those G37 coupes had just been released and were hotter than the 4th of July. I tried to buy one at our local dealer. They had the dreaded "Added Market Adjustment" fee and sticker. They weren't budging from it, either. I'm not a rookie when it comes to buying cars. But, I pulled out all of my tricks....
-"I have my checkbook here right now"
-"Take these 5-$100 bills to your manager as a deposit and tell him I'm ready to buy now."
-"At least make me feel like I'm getting at least a slight deal and knock off the sticker addendum".
They weren't budging. I just couldn't bring myself to buy a car for over MSRP, no matter how much I liked it.
Regarding recalls, I was just thinking last night, as nice as my prior Audi was, I haven't had my Acura in for anything other than an oil change...not one squeak, not one rattle....nothing. I had forgotten how good some cars really are when it comes to engineering, materials, and build quality. Honda/Acura do those things extremely well....arguably better than any other manufacturer.
@venture said:
The supplier, the manufacturer, the dealer - 6 of one... The ultimate responsibility is Fords. They are the boss.
I agree. I work in lean manufacturing employing the Toyota model for both quality and process control. We are more vertically integrated than many manufacturers, turning raw material into finished product, but we also outsource many items to vendors with better expertise in a specific area. Regardless of our vendors' performance, we, whose brand name adorns the product and sell/distribute it to the customer, are responsible for final performance.
Ford chose the vendor, provided them with the rules to play by, and must ensure final quality to the customer. I'm not judging Ford since mistakes are a part of manufacturing life. But, this is a great opportunity for a root cause investigation to determine if new controls are needed. Right now we have no idea where the problem originated. Ordering, transportation, stocking? Could the process be refined to guarantee this never occurs again?
Constant improvement is our way of life where I work, and problems like an incorrect seat in this situation represent areas we love to attack. The wrong seat equates to waste and customer dissatisfaction, and neither is acceptable. Hopefully Ford will use this experience as an opportunity to continue refining their quality systems, which have already seen many positive changes over the years.
@venture said:
The supplier, the manufacturer, the dealer - 6 of one... The ultimate responsibility is Fords. They are the boss.
Agreed - it's Ford ultimate responsibility. But I just wanted to point out that it wasn't specifically one person's fault as you pointed out:
@venture said: If I had to blame anyone it would have to be Ford. The knucklehead who installed it had to know it was wrong. After all they do it all day long.
@cdnpinhead said:
Regarding auction values, there's a board here on Edmunds, "Real-World Trade-In Values" that's been around since '00 when it was started by im_brentwood, a sales pro who had access to the auction results around the country. Over the years others came and went but all provided what turned out to be extremely accurate information. The current purveyor of the real deal is qbrozen, and quite a few of the guys on this board hang out over there as well. I think it's the only other board with a huge post count, somewhere around 44K, as I recall.
Thanks so much for that tip. I'll definitely check it out soon.
@fezo said:
"Your niece and nephew won't be the only ones in the will? Just remember, I spell my name with 2 ds:)"
He must have been referring to me...
Goodness. The choice between Fezo and Bradd is a difficult one. Now if one of them could care for me in my old age, I might be able to make a final decision.
@fezo said: "Your niece and nephew won't be the only ones in the will? Just remember, I spell my name with 2 ds:)"
He must have been referring to me...
Goodness. The choice between Fezo and Bradd is a difficult one. Now if one of them could care for me in my old age, I might be able to make a final decision.
Hey Richard, you can fix all of them, just live for another 50 years!
@graphicguy said:
Regarding recalls, I was just thinking last night, as nice as my prior Audi was, I haven't had my Acura in for anything other than an oil change...not one squeak, not one rattle....nothing. I had forgotten how good some cars really are when it comes to engineering, materials, and build quality. Honda/Acura do those things extremely well....arguably better than any other manufacturer.
Here is a list, by manufacturer, and the rates, from 1985-2013
1.Mercedes-Benz USA: 2.1 million recalled/5.2 million sold; 0.41 recall rate.
2.Mazda Motor Corp: 5.2 million recalled/9.4 million sold; 0.55 recall rate.
3.General Motors: 99.3 million recalled/153.2 million sold; 0.65 recall rate.
4.Nissan North America: 19.1 million recalled/26.8 million sold; 0.71 recall rate.
5.Subaru of America: 4.3 million recalled/6.0 million sold; 0.73 recall rate
.
6.Kia Motors: 3.7 million recalled/4.9 million sold; 0.77 recall rate.
7.Toyota Motor Corp: 38.6 million recalled/48.1 million sold; 0.80 recall rate.
8.BMW of North America: 5.1 million recalled/5.7 million sold; 0.90 recall rate.
9.Ford Motor Co: 97.0 million recalled/104.7 million sold; 0.93 recall rate.
10.American Honda Motor Co: 31.1 million recalled/32.9 million sold; 0.94 recall rate
11.Chrysler Group: 63.2 million recalled/63.2 million sold; 1.00 recall rate.
12.Volvo Cars of North America: 3.3 million recalled/3.1 million sold; 1.05 recall rate.
13.Volkswagen of America: 10.2 million recalled/9.7 million sold; 1.06 recall rate.
14.Mitsubishi Motors North America: 5.3 million recalled/4.8 million sold; 1.09 recall rate.
15.Hyundai Motor Co: 9.9 million recalled/8.7 million sold; 1.15 recall rate.
This was posted in Forbes from statistics from the Federal Government
So, GG, according to the above statistics, Honda North America is 10th on the list. The figures for Toyota and GM do not include the heavy numbers of recalls in the past 3 months
@sterlingdog said:
Goodness. The choice between Fezo and Bradd is a difficult one. Now if one of them could care for me in my old age, I might be able to make a final decision."
If that is your highest concern, who has more experience taking care of old farts than me!!!!
Mike...thanks for looking up those recall stats. I still feel the sting a little with my Audi. While, not recalled, it certainly qualified as troublesome. Not having to be at the dealership every few weeks, like I did with the Audi, I forgot what reliability really means in a car.
@abacomike said:
Here is a list, by manufacturer, and the rates, from 1985-2013
Interesting numbers when one looks looks at them from that standpoint.
Guess my GM vehicles aren't all that bad from a recall standpoint
(current daily driver the exception of course )
11.Chrysler Group: 63.2 million recalled/63.2 million sold; 1.00 recall rate
Is this a misprint????? or a joke?
I had a Toyota mgr. once tell a friend and me at the dealership .... We were trading in a 4 almost 5 year Town and country van with 46k on it . He flat out said take the 6000 thousand i'm offering cause noboby wants a 5 yr old Chrysler.. When we drove away my friend told me what was wrong with his van and i made him turn around and trade it to them ..
Comments
I, too, hated that we didn't get to meet in person. I had also planned to meet Houdini in Kansas. We came close. I called and he just missed my message. We had to leave early the next morning in advance of a terrible storm. Due to the bad flooding, we had to re-route ourselves up through Nebraska. Maybe next time.
Richard
" They are in for a surprise, plus a few other little surprises----as in the fact that those two are not the only ones in our Wills."
Good for you. People can be vicious when it comes time for wills. An inheritance isn't a right, although some relatives think it is. It's your choice, and you have to decide how to divide it, like maybe donate some to your buddies at sales frontlines. We could use it to hold the annual party....we could even hold it in North Carolina.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Expensive main attraction.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I'll consider allowing you to kiss me on the forehead if you will answer my question to you from yesterday.
The question was: Is there any way that a consumer can find out the auction value of their vehicle. I see dealer values and private sale values, but I never see auction values.
Thanks for your kind comments. I think that all of the posters here each day have big hearts. That's why I like coming here, plus the sense of humor, the intellect, the experiences of others, the good advice, and the super nice hosts. I would be hard pressed to find another thread even close to this one.
Richard
What?! I bequeath the money for the big reunion? Don't you want ME to be there? I thought that you were my poster buddy.
Speaking of Wills, and just to be safe, we had a statement added. It says that if an heir raises a legal objection to the Wills, then they will automatically forfeit their own share. Hopefully, that will cut down on the greed thoughts and ideas.
Richard
Well, maybe compared to Florida but not THAT cold. Right now, it's 84!
The Main Attraction CAN be expensive if you overdo things.
Heck, you may even come out ahead!
I never have but there is always a chance!
"The question was: Is there any way that a consumer can find out the auction value of their vehicle. I see dealer values and private sale values, but I never see auction values."
To access Manheim, you need a subscription to their website. Also, NADA Blackbook is a subscription service - a Blackbook is 4"x2" with very fine print - about 1-1/2" thick.
Kbb (Kelly Blue Book) and Edmunds are within $500 of auction value if you indicate "trade value "!
I have access to Manheim and NADA. If you need an approximate auction value, let me know.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
It took me a few days. When I test drove it something didn't look right. A few days later the 6 year-old said, "Your seats don't match".
I like this car. More than I thought I would.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
The seats are a completely different design. The SE is sort of a "ribbed" design while the Titanium sport seats have flat panels. I'm not sure about the leather. It all looks the same.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
Now that is really different. At least mine are both leather.
Must have been lunch time right before the bolts got tightened.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
I love that one....brilliant! But, it's a sign you probably can forsee there will be a problem.
And, yes, sorry, of course we hope you can be at the grand reunion.....we'll have to find another generous donor. Actually, that could be a tremendous marketing play for Edmunds to sponsor the big event.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
One Chrysler 300(I think it was 08 or 09) we got from the factory had leather seats in the front and cloth bench in the back
I remember looking at a 79 Firebird. I was kind of tempted, but the emblem on the back was about 3 inches off centre. That kind of turned me off from leasing the Firebird, ended up with a Cutlass.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I'm afraid we probably can't blame Ford other than for quality control. They didn't make the seats.
If the operation worked like GM Moraine did, the seats come in prepackaged from the supplier by semi truck. The seats are finished only hours before and placed, in order, on the semi so that when they offload them they were ready for the assembly line--in order of the production models and colors planned for that group within the day. Same for the headliners. So I think we can blame the supplier who made the seats and supplied them just-in-time for the assembly line. I believe in GM's case it was Johnson Controls.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It is, the wife and I are planning an extended weekend there this summer and taking our bikes to explore the island.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
@venture. You don't really know when this happened. Could be original assembly, or after that.
" if it wasn't to his liking (pre judging right away), he'd say he was busy and turn around and walk away. I'd be left standing now with my customers and the new customer who was still looking for help."
That reminded me of a sales story way back when I was selling cars at the Lexus dealership.
We had a computer "UP" system that listed all salesmen signed in and their position in line for the next customer greeted by the greeter. This particular day, I was the 2nd salesman in line. The management rule was that if you were UP or on DECK, you had to go to the greeter and stand by her.
So the next salesman in line was standing there with me as this bearded, rather questionably dressed young man walked through the front door. This UP salesman told the greeter he had diarrhea and had to run to the washroom (RIGHT)! Do since I was next UP, the customer was introduced to me. I shook his hand, smiled, and told him my first name . He said "...Hi, my name is....and today is your lucky day!" I've heard that before, but I just asked him a group of questions to determine his specific needs.
After hearing what his needs were and the type of car he was looking for (an LS430 Ultra Sedan - MSRP usually around. $62,500 at that time), I took him out to the back rear lot where we kept LS430 Ultras and began to select a car that he liked. There were no options available on an Ultra as they were all equipped to the gills with every conceivable option.
Since the Ultra was in limited production (highest priced car that Lexus manufactured at that time), most dealers only stocked 2 or 3 of them. Since we were a huge dealership , we had about 15 on the lot.
He picked out a Black Cherry Pearl with beige perforated leather. I went back to the showroom with him and got the keys. I brought the car around, put on a dealer tag , and we drove off the property. He wanted to take it on the turnpike to see how it handled on the highway. I directed him to the turnpike, he drove about 5 miles at 70 mph and totally fell in love with the car .
On our way back to the dealership, he asked if I had any more Black Cherry Pearl Ultras and I remembered walking our inventory that morning and I remembered seeing a total of 3. So I responded we had 3 of them. He asked if I had any Black Pearl Ultras with black perforated leather. I told him I had 6 of them.
He then gave me his business card and said, "... I'll take the. 3 Cherry Pearls and the. 6 Blsck Pearls!" I think I started to feel the urge of peeing right then and their, but held it in until I got to the dealership.
He was CEO of a large Limo Service Company and needed to replace 9 of his Lincoln Town Cars.
He gave me a company check for 9 cars (around $585,000) and signed all the paperwork. We were to deliver the cars to his Palm Beach headquarters in 3 days.
I said nothing to anyone in the dealership except management, who was involved in helping me, and spent the next day getting the cars detailed and the two transporters to the dealership to pick up the cars.
My commission on the 9 cars, after deducting transportation costs, was $39,000. That was several month's salary for me.
The next day, the salesman who had diarrhea because he didn't want to take that customer, went to management demanding half the commission. They called me into the office, asked me if it was true that "stole" the customer. I went out and got the greeter to tell them the truth. The manager turned around and fired the salesman on the spot for lying about the customer and trying to avoid taking a customer when he was the NEXT UP salesman.
I made more that day than I made any previous or subsequent day of my life.
Thanks boomchek for jogging my memory about ditching customers! This is a true story - I didn't change a thing or embellish the story in any way.
How 's that for a sales story?
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Great story, Mike! Did you ever again hear from the individual who bought all those cars?
"Great story, Mike! Did you ever again hear from the individual who bought all those cars?"
In fact, yes I did. It was when I was over at Infiniti. He had my cell phone number and called me. I explained to him that I was a manager and I was no longer with Lexus.
The G37S coupe had just been introduced (revamp of the G35 coupe) and he asked me if I had a red w /black leather interior as he had driven one in Palm Beach , but the had a waiting list due to the high demand . We were the biggest dealership in the country and I had just unloaded 2 red coupes from a truck from the port of Jacksonville.
He drove down, took it for a spin. And a few hours later, the salesman I assigned to complete the deal and paperwork followed him back to West Palm Beach with another salesman following him to give him a lift back. He paid full sticker for the car - they were in such short supply everywhere except at our dealership.
He still calls me every so often - I helped him buy a an SL 550 last year from my Mercedes Dealer. - he got a great price on one.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Thanks so much. I will. I may trade in the convertible this June. If so, I'll need your help with those quotes. Since my great nephew is going to stay in Dubai to attend a British school, I'm not going to save the convertible for him.
Richard
The customer relationship is one of the things I miss in my current position. Every so often I get a chance to re-engage customers, but nothing close to my frontline positions in the past. Mostly I just handle the escalated "angry" customers when my team needs management help, but even that is rare with most of my duties involving process control and improvement. That actually happened today. Hot customer was escalated to me, and after a few minutes of listening to him and diffusing the situation, we spent the next 45 minutes chatting about life and his facility. Neat person and now he has my personal extension to call whenever there's the need. That felt great.
Leave it to the little children to keep us straight.
Richard
@ abacomike
That's one heck of a story. Nicely done! And yes I heard those lines before, mostly from people who turn out to be strokes:
It's your lucky day
Who wants to sell me a car today
I'm a serious buyer
etc.....
That's why in a store with an up system, sometimes salesguys will avoid stepping out for lunch when it's their turn for an UP, because they might miss their turn, which could end up costing them a commission. We call that a $500 lunch lol
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
@sterlingdog
Your niece and nephew won't be the only ones in the will? Just remember, I spell my name with 2 ds:)
@abacomike
I'm glad you and Dad had a good steak dinner at NYY Steak. You deserve a night off from cooking! Bravo!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Regarding auction values, there's a board here on Edmunds, "Real-World Trade-In Values" that's been around since '00 when it was started by im_brentwood, a sales pro who had access to the auction results around the country. Over the years others came and went but all provided what turned out to be extremely accurate information. The current purveyor of the real deal is qbrozen, and quite a few of the guys on this board hang out over there as well. I think it's the only other board with a huge post count, somewhere around 44K, as I recall.
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If I had to blame anyone it would have to be Ford. The knucklehead who installed it had to know it was wrong. After all they do it all day long. I guess you also have to assume s/he wanted to keep the line moving, but it should have been pulled off the line somewhere and fixed.
They are completely different. It sort of makes me wonder if there was a domino effect going on here and all the cars going through the line had rear seat cushions that were one off.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
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Yep. It makes you wonder why anyone would swap out a seat though.
As long as they get it fixed I really don't care.
The funny thing is that it's been almost 2 weeks since my dealer said they ordered the seat and it still isn't here (or they just haven't called me). When I ordered a trunk mat and cargo net that I paid for, it was here the next day.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
6.4 million Toyotas are being recalled for various and sundry defects. It is being called the second largest recall of vehicles in history.
It gives one second thoughts about acquiring cars or vehicles from companies who have such high rates of recalls.
Since going to German manufactured vehicles, I have not had to bring a car I owned in for a recall. On the other hand, I haven't kept a vehicle long enough for it to be involved in a recall while I owned it.
So I guess I keep ahead of these recalls - who knows?
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
If I had to blame anyone it would have to be Ford. The knucklehead who installed it had to know it was wrong. After all they do it all day long.
The fault really does lie with the supplier. They are responsible for delivering the right parts, in the right order, just in time. The seat comes wrapped in plastic and since it was the same color, the installer probably never noticed. It should have been caught at the dealer when they prepped the car - after all they do that all day long. Today's quality systems push quality assurance as far down the line as possible in order to eliminate the need to fix things further down the line.
The mat and net were sitting in a warehouse close by and came in right away. The seat has to be manufactured as a special order and will take longer - parts like that aren't in stock anywhere.
Those could be optional items people buy, so they are always in stock. Finding a replacement seat cushion is not something normally kept in stock, they may have to remove one from another car to speed things along.
That really shouldn't happen, but I guess mistakes can happen, it's how quickly they fix their mistake that would really show how good they are..
One guy may put in a front seat and another guy the rear seat. Also, after working on an assembly line 8 hours a dayfor 20 years kind of numbs you to what you are doing.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
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As you know Mike, when you are in sales, you can never tell who really has money and who doesn't. The 87 year old fellow we are helping dresses in the oldest clothes you can imagine. He drives a 6 year old Chev Uplander and before that a 2000 Malibu. He doesn't have a washer dryer, he just has a small Hitachi washer that spin dries. No Dish washer. He did get a flat screen TV about 4 years ago, when his Motorola works in a drawer "beautiful furniture - they don't make TVs like that any more" gave out. He has savings of a few million.
Unfortunately, he won't be splurging on any car, he can't do it. But, there are people who have the money to spend, but they just don't look like they do. That other salesman was very foolish, you just never know.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
X2.
Agree with Robr2 who remembered to point out the plastic covering. I recall watching the IBEW at GM assembly nearby who did seats. They were busy just moving the seat into position to move it sideways into the vehicle without touching anything else to do damage. The seats were hanging from an L-hook IIRC. That supported the seat until it was in the vehicle and then the hook was withdrawn. All this as the line is moving at walking speed with the body resting on a skillet, a small platform.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Thanks so much. I will. I may trade in the convertible this June.
Have you thought about selling it first, bypassing the trade negotiation with a place where you're trading it in? I would think this spring with the dogwoods blooming is when people get the fever for a convertible and catching the worm early might give a good reward in price for a clean, nice car like that.
You might determine a good price for a private sale with help from the people here with access to the data. Then start spreading the word among your contacts at garages, stores, anywhere you having contact with people. There might be someone willing to pay a good enough price to make it rewarding. That's if you can get by with just your SRX for a time with one vehicle. We decided we could get by with 1.5 vehicles. We don't really need two. Our new one has been driven 4 times.
Then you could negotiate on the car you are wishing to buy which makes it much easier to do.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
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The supplier, the manufacturer, the dealer - 6 of one... The ultimate responsibility is Fords. They are the boss.
The plastic is clear. You can see through it. Besides I could tell the difference with my eyes closed just by touching it. They are that different.
I really don't care. They are going to make it right. So they say.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
Mike...great sales stories. I remember when those G37 coupes had just been released and were hotter than the 4th of July. I tried to buy one at our local dealer. They had the dreaded "Added Market Adjustment" fee and sticker. They weren't budging from it, either. I'm not a rookie when it comes to buying cars. But, I pulled out all of my tricks....
-"I have my checkbook here right now"
-"Take these 5-$100 bills to your manager as a deposit and tell him I'm ready to buy now."
-"At least make me feel like I'm getting at least a slight deal and knock off the sticker addendum".
They weren't budging. I just couldn't bring myself to buy a car for over MSRP, no matter how much I liked it.
Regarding recalls, I was just thinking last night, as nice as my prior Audi was, I haven't had my Acura in for anything other than an oil change...not one squeak, not one rattle....nothing. I had forgotten how good some cars really are when it comes to engineering, materials, and build quality. Honda/Acura do those things extremely well....arguably better than any other manufacturer.
I agree. I work in lean manufacturing employing the Toyota model for both quality and process control. We are more vertically integrated than many manufacturers, turning raw material into finished product, but we also outsource many items to vendors with better expertise in a specific area. Regardless of our vendors' performance, we, whose brand name adorns the product and sell/distribute it to the customer, are responsible for final performance.
Ford chose the vendor, provided them with the rules to play by, and must ensure final quality to the customer. I'm not judging Ford since mistakes are a part of manufacturing life. But, this is a great opportunity for a root cause investigation to determine if new controls are needed. Right now we have no idea where the problem originated. Ordering, transportation, stocking? Could the process be refined to guarantee this never occurs again?
Constant improvement is our way of life where I work, and problems like an incorrect seat in this situation represent areas we love to attack. The wrong seat equates to waste and customer dissatisfaction, and neither is acceptable. Hopefully Ford will use this experience as an opportunity to continue refining their quality systems, which have already seen many positive changes over the years.
Agreed - it's Ford ultimate responsibility. But I just wanted to point out that it wasn't specifically one person's fault as you pointed out:
Car tipping (lifting the small car up onto its rear bumper) is now in the news. Makes me glad to drive a V8 that's too heavy to tip.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
"Your niece and nephew won't be the only ones in the will? Just remember, I spell my name with 2 ds:)"
He must have been referring to me...
Smart Car tipping seems to be the new rage. Used to be VW Beetle badges. Do some people really think that is funny?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Thanks so much for that tip. I'll definitely check it out soon.
Richard
Mako, and where did you say your parked your car every evening?
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Goodness. The choice between Fezo and Bradd is a difficult one. Now if one of them could care for me in my old age, I might be able to make a final decision.
Richard
Hey Richard, you can fix all of them, just live for another 50 years!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Here is a list, by manufacturer, and the rates, from 1985-2013
1.Mercedes-Benz USA: 2.1 million recalled/5.2 million sold; 0.41 recall rate.
2.Mazda Motor Corp: 5.2 million recalled/9.4 million sold; 0.55 recall rate.
3.General Motors: 99.3 million recalled/153.2 million sold; 0.65 recall rate.
4.Nissan North America: 19.1 million recalled/26.8 million sold; 0.71 recall rate.
5.Subaru of America: 4.3 million recalled/6.0 million sold; 0.73 recall rate
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6.Kia Motors: 3.7 million recalled/4.9 million sold; 0.77 recall rate.
7.Toyota Motor Corp: 38.6 million recalled/48.1 million sold; 0.80 recall rate.
8.BMW of North America: 5.1 million recalled/5.7 million sold; 0.90 recall rate.
9.Ford Motor Co: 97.0 million recalled/104.7 million sold; 0.93 recall rate.
10.American Honda Motor Co: 31.1 million recalled/32.9 million sold; 0.94 recall rate
11.Chrysler Group: 63.2 million recalled/63.2 million sold; 1.00 recall rate.
12.Volvo Cars of North America: 3.3 million recalled/3.1 million sold; 1.05 recall rate.
13.Volkswagen of America: 10.2 million recalled/9.7 million sold; 1.06 recall rate.
14.Mitsubishi Motors North America: 5.3 million recalled/4.8 million sold; 1.09 recall rate.
15.Hyundai Motor Co: 9.9 million recalled/8.7 million sold; 1.15 recall rate.
This was posted in Forbes from statistics from the Federal Government
So, GG, according to the above statistics, Honda North America is 10th on the list. The figures for Toyota and GM do not include the heavy numbers of recalls in the past 3 months
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
If that is your highest concern, who has more experience taking care of old farts than me!!!!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Mako, and where did you say your parked your car every evening?
In my garage of course.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Mike...thanks for looking up those recall stats. I still feel the sting a little with my Audi. While, not recalled, it certainly qualified as troublesome. Not having to be at the dealership every few weeks, like I did with the Audi, I forgot what reliability really means in a car.
Interesting numbers when one looks looks at them from that standpoint.
)
Guess my GM vehicles aren't all that bad from a recall standpoint
(current daily driver the exception of course
abcomike said:
11.Chrysler Group: 63.2 million recalled/63.2 million sold; 1.00 recall rate
Is this a misprint????? or a joke?
I had a Toyota mgr. once tell a friend and me at the dealership .... We were trading in a 4 almost 5 year Town and country van with 46k on it . He flat out said take the 6000 thousand i'm offering cause noboby wants a 5 yr old Chrysler.. When we drove away my friend told me what was wrong with his van and i made him turn around and trade it to them ..
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE